September 11Th: Community Hot Topics!

[LordOfScrugging]

I voted other for the exilus part. reason being is, it is pretty cool, you can finally have that rush mod on your rhino and frost, you can slot your hand spring, you can bullet jump faster or imbue your parkour with elements, however there needs to be a definitive answer to what is and isn't "utility".

In many player's eyes, natural talent and equilibrium should be exilus mods, but aren't. why? they don't directly affect your stats like intensify or continuity. natural talent just cuts the time on some of the longer animations. Some argue that it is a combat mod because it affects powers, however, handspring should be considered a combat mod by those standards since it picks you back up quicker to get back to killing.

My opinion is this, i like it, but also don't like it. there need's to be a clear definition of what is and isn't fit to be an exilus mod.

[MagPrime]

-snip-

natural talent just cuts the time on some of the longer animations. Some argue that it is a combat mod because it affects powers, however, handspring should be considered a combat mod by those standards since it picks you back up quicker to get back to killing.

-snip-

Don't forget the mod that does electrical damage to anything that melee's you.

[FruntlineXtreme]

I'm very skeptical about the Brawler frame. I feel like it is either gonna be really good or really bad.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

1 - I'm neither here nor there on the required mods.  On one hand, I'm not against the multishot change.  More dps, more ammo consumption, it makes sense.  This would encourage the use of other mods like reload speed and ammo mutation, but I'd prefer an exilus-like slot on my weapon for that than shelving a mod.

 

2 - On to the exilus slot.  It's okay.  I was really hoping for augments to qualify as utility in order to truely open up builds.  Instead we're given the chance to add handspring or parkour mods to every frame.  Kinda meh, honestly.

 

3 - The bacon frame?  Looks good.  New frames are always welcome.

 

4 - I've never been a fan of going further than an hour into any endless mission due to connectivity concerns.  So a quicker increase of difficulty and rewards would be nice.

 

So voted.

Edited September 15, 2015 by (PS4)Magician_NG

[porcelio26]

Regarding the "required" mods, honestly I'm a bit skeptical about the changes you guys (DE) are gonna make. Please no more "fixing what isn't broken" and observe the root of the problems this time. It's not gonna be Multishot 2.0 or Mods 2.0. To me it's rather Damage 3.0 with the complete overhaul of the scaling system. I like Tiberon with its 3-round burst and efficient ammo economy. But sadly it's turning into a toy gun after 40 minutes of T4 endless missions. I agree that some weapons should stay as stepping stones or mastery fodder before a player can reach a higher rank. But also please allow us players to "preserve" our favorite weapon by enabling them to compete with end game content.

 

Exilus mod slot is fine. It's good to be able to equip an extra Rush or Intruder for Spy missions, but it's not a ground-breaking feature.

 

I haven't seen the Brawler warframe so I don't have any opinion on this guy.

 

Regarding the difficulty and the rewards, I believe you guys need to have a better look at the reward table, especially for T4 missions. Some of us don't have that much time to farm a lot of T4 keys, and when we do get into one, all we got is just a bunch of Forma BP and even Orokin Cell. Quicker enemy scaling is fine (since it's a bit boring during the first 5 minutes tho) but please put a proper reward table. Remove all the non prime parts/BP from T4 missions and make it more rewarding for the players. Or you guys can make Tower 5 missions where it will guarantee prime parts and BP.

 

Cheers.

[blazinvire]

My main beef with required mods was the basic ones like Serration, which when I broke it down into what it actually changed in gameplay terms, it basically made numbers bigger and then the game was tweaked so those big numbers weren't OP, and as such meant not having that mod to make your numbers that big, would be basically a punishment or a crazy handicap.

So... it pretty much just ate a mod slot purely so everyone could see bigger numbers everywhere, not a great deal actually changed in terms of gameplay...

 

The elemental mods were slightly perplexing also, as I felt elements were more something you added to a weapon for strategy to get around certain weaknesses -which to some degree it is, but the additional damage plugged onto it has a very similar issue that Serration-style mods have -little reason not to have them.

Multishot just seemed like a really bizarre Critical Hit 2.0 with no real downsides since you couldn't rely on it but you also couldn't go without it for Serration reasons.  Theoretically sounds interesting, but probably needs to be redesigned from the ground up so that it's not just a slightly different take on Fire Rate mods; like adding a charge feature to fire multiple shots or an extra weapon mode or something.  Less of a mod and more of an attachment.  Like sticking a silencer on the end of your gun instead of a Hush mod.

 

The Exilus slot was an interesting touch, forcing a focus on utility so we weren't pressured to squeeze more damage out of things.

I think there needs to be more like it that regard, slots for the mods that change gameplay rather than enhance it, like a dedicated slot for each power, purely for power Augments.  Though that would require tweaking power augments and adding a tonne more across the board so that the slot is for customization rather than simply freeing up your other slots.

 

As for endless, I always felt that people should be allowed to go at whatever speed they like, the option of doing stuff like blowing up important things in order to increase your threat level which would flood more enemies, speed things up and increase difficulty.

[Sci_Ant]

1. MULISHOT CHANGES and mod rebalancing : Please just leave that as it is and focus on enemy armor scaling which basically makes Grineer and Void enemies unkillable with anything but the most OP weapons and 4 Corrosive Projections after about an hour or level 100 and makes enemies unkillable with normal weapons after 45 minutes when not using a single CP.

 

That is exactly the reason why people want to use OP weapons in the first place and also why CP is a required mod for anything going beyond 40 minutes on a high level mission where enemies have armor.

 

Maybe if those forced requirements are taken out and if status effects are given a rework so that they are actually more useful than just Corrosive and Viral, then we will automatically not be forced to use Damage builds but would use Status builds instead or something like that.

 

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2. EXILUS MOD SLOT : As it stands, it's really badly implemented. It takes an insane amount of resources to unlock one and even after that you still need to Forma your frame atleast twice to be able to use all those mods. If you Forma the Exilus slot then you lock yourself into using only specific Exilus mods, if you Forma the frame too many times you lock yourself into specific builds and variety ends.

 

Also the time investment thanks to Simaris daily rep lock and scanning is a lot, something to the tune of more than 6 months and my rant on that can be found here >

The need to spend 50 k rep with Simaris, use 2 forma just to make the Exilus Adapter and then spend atleast 2 Forma for most frames to be able to use that damn slot, is beyond ridiculous.

 

For an MR 19 veteran player it might be an extended inconvenience, but for a new or lower MR player it's the most insanely grindy thing DE could have come up with.

 

The Math:

 

I'm MR 19 and can get 20 k rep from Simaris a day. It will still take me 2.5 days to get 50 k if I run about 1 hour of scanning missions per day.

 

Then if I build a forma a day, it will take me 4 days to make 4 Forma to actually be able to use that slot after unlocking it.

 

If I built those 4 Forma at the same time as I ran scanning missions, then it would take me a total of 4 days to get all the things I need to make an Adapter. This is assuming that I have all the resources needed to make the 4 Forma and Adapter in the first place, which not everyone will have at the ready, for example Argon Crystals.

 

Another day to actually make the Adapter. That's a total of 3.5 days to make the Adapter.

 

Then after applying the Adapter, I Forma my frame and go and do some leveling up. Assuming I play normally and not resort to a Draco type mission, it would take about 2 hours to fully level up my frame. Let's say I only have time to do this once a day since in the real world that's all most people have to give to the game, unless you're super hardcore or have a holiday going on.

 

Now, we're at 4.5 days.

 

Add another day for another forma and leveling up. So after a MINIMUM of 5.5 days, lets round off to 6, I will have that Exilus Mod slot for just 1 frame. And this is considering I'm a high MR player with resources and creds at my disposal.

 

Now, imagine that for a new player or lower MR player who doesn't have that many resources or creds at their disposal and needs to specifically spend additional time to farm those in order to even begin making the Adapter.

 

Lets say on average it takes a week for a player to get their Exilus slot and make it useable. Does DE expect us to spend 33 frames (not counting Excal P) x 7 days = 231 days or almost 8 months, in order to get all my exilus slots working without having to spend any platinum?? Don't the Cons severely outweigh the Pro's of getting that slot at this rate if all I'm going to be doing for the next 8 months is farming for Exilus slots?

 

And the most mindblowing thing is that the above time applies ONLY TO AN MR 19 PLAYER.

 

If you are a lower MR like 10 for example it will take you about a week JUST TO GET THE BP FROM SIMARIS thanks to limited daily rep, so you can double the time taken to max out all your frames with Exilus slots.

 

I totally agree with the OP, if the result of this is to add more grind to the game and the likes of which we have never seen before, then it obviously pushes us to buy plat or break our heads trading for it in order to spend over 650 + plat to get Exilus slots for all our frames. For those who have been playing for a long time and have a lot of plat to throw away, it won't be much of a problem but what about everyone else?

 

TBH, if I wanted I could buy Exilus slots for all my frames 10 times over at this very moment with all the plat I got solely from trading, but do I really want to end up spending plat for even 1 if I feel like I'm FORCED to do it? It was bad enough that we have to pay plat for more warframe and weapon slots, not just cosmetics (which is the main reason why the majority of players end up not having all frames and weapons at their disposal) but now we have to fork out dough for these stupid Exilus slots too?

 

Our choices are limited to either that or spend the NEXT 8 MONTHS TO MORE THAN A YEAR ONLY ON GETTING EXILUS SLOTS FOR ALL YOUR FRAMES, YOU CAN FORGET ABOUT ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME FOR FUN. GG DE.

 

Oh and I totally forgot, even if you do pay 20 p for the slot, YOU STILL HAVE TO FORMA ATLEAST TWICE TO ACTUALLY MAKE IT USABLE AND NOT A COSMETIC ADDITION TO SIMPLY STARE AT.

 

PS: I'm so totally put off by this system of pseudo paywalling that I refuse to get Exilus slots for my frames with either time or money until DE decides to fix this system.

 

EDIT: Calculated the total time as 350 days and not 231 days, fixed that mistake. It's still almost 8 months of time though. And reduce 7 days if you got lucky enough to get the Natah quest thanks to RNG.

 

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3. BRAWLER FRAME : Looks cool, will wait to see it and it's power set to have a more informed opinion on it.

 

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4. ENDLESS SCALING : This ties in with the first point where the enemies Armor scaling needs a rework rather than the weapons needing a rebalance. I would definitely like to see more rewards and quicker rewards and enemies can certainly scale faster to balance that out.

 

Maybe in Survival it can be changed so that after every Rotation C all periodic rewards come 1 minute sooner. So after 20 minutes it would be at 24, 28, 32, 36. Then after 36 minutes it would be at 39, 42, 45, 48. After 48 minutes it would be 50, 52, 54, 56.

 

Stop the period reduction at this point and let the rewards come every 2 minutes after reaching 48 minutes, no matter how long you go after that. Maybe it could be stopped at every 3 minutes or the decrements could be made -30 seconds rather than -1 minute.

 

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5. On topic from the last CHT: Regarding the whole 'social implementation in game' whenever a new Change/ Buff / Nerf / Polls or any other thing is announced please put the thread announcement in the News Console in the Liset ingame so that we can avoid getting feedback only from regular forum users which make up a small part of the community but rather get more feedback from a larger part of the community.

 

 

Thank you!

Edited September 15, 2015 by Sci_Ant

[Culaio]

I believe that one of things that needs to be changed about endless missions is mandatory 4xCP aura, which whole team with corrosive projections player wont go far, DE always says that they dont want any mandatory mods so this needs to change since right now any other aura is useless in endless void missions. The biggest problem with this is that currently people who like to invite random players to help them or players who play solo because of unreliable internet connection get punished for not having mandatory CP aura's(solo player can only bring one CP aura)

 

Another change they should do about endless missions is scaling of enemies depending on number of players in the team since as I mentioned above if you dont bring full team with 4xCP you wont go far, it is unfair that you cant got to void with only one or two friends if you want to go far or that you cant get as much rewards as other players just because you have unreliable internet connection and can only go solo,  right now if you go solo(with one CP aura) game gets pretty hard but still fair between 30 and 35 minute but after 35 minute best weapon in game with best build(over 20k continous DPS) uses up 1/3 of ammo from clip to kill one bombard that is affected by Molecular Prime, at this point killing enemies with guns becomes useless and only way to kill enemies at speed needed to survive is to only spam antimatter drop filled with damage, reaching 40 for solo players is max they can do unless they bring VERY specific frames.

 

One more problem with enemies in endless missions, from what I saw ratio of enemies spawns per player is higher in solo then when in team which is unfair.

 

Used nova prime as example because thats frame I am most experianced with..

Edited September 16, 2015 by Culaio

[Goddo]

I think the Brawler Warframe should of been a Kung fu/Martial Arts theme.

[DoritosandDewGG]

I think it's should have more avalible mods for the elixius mod slot, I feel like natural talent should be one of them.

[Impact6]

1. You start with actual rebalance of enemies we fight and establish some consistent and not-procedurally generated difficulty system and then rebalance weapons in accordance to defined difficulty tiers.

 

Do not nerf everything first with a promise to tweak everything else and every other issue than ensues eventually.

 

4. Just make the RNG bearable for players, this isn't even grind, just gambling. Throw in a few hours of your life and the game might gracefully just give you what you want to keep you going.

 

Excessive amount of grind with visible progress is better than RNG with no progress whatsoever.

 

Such is common sense one would think. Also I think these two points, along with the "nukes" some frames have, are generally the only problems I ever had with this game. Yet I cannot find a proper solution for the last one.

[zptc]

"Necessary" mods: Until all mods are exactly identical, there's always going to be some mods that are better than others. Removing Serration/multishot etc. will *NOT* end the problem of "required" mods. It will merely shift the "required" idea to other mods.

 

Some suggest baking increased damage into the guns. Why should a brand new player get as much base damage from his gun (with baked-in Serration) as a player who's spent the very significant resources required to max out Serration?

 

Reworking enemy scaling (and therefore weapon/frame damage) is a good idea, but DE please don't think that players moaning about the supposed absence of "variety" in their builds are going to stop doing so just serration is gone and multishot consumes ammo.

[TonyFoot]

“required” mods

 

Whole damage scaling system should be rebalanced.

 

^^^QFT^^^

 

 

"Reworked" isn't a strong enough term for what needs to be done to the modding and damage scaling systems. Try, "Torn out and remade from scratch."

 

Have you ever tried anything artful, played around with it, realised you screwed it up, then tried to fix it and only made it worse, so you had to throw it out and start over?

 

This is what has happened/will happen/is happening to mods and damage scales.

[Caobie]

Exilus slot...ugh I voted other and here's a link to the thread I made explaining it in detail why I dislike and refuse to use exilus but want to. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/502139-yet-another-exilus-thread/?view=findpost&p=5614362

Short version, the system that is intended for veteran players is easier for new players to aquire technically for every frame due to time required for rep farming. 60 days for my 24 frames almost all of which have room to use the slot.

[Yargami]

Required mods: If multishot consumes extra ammo it basically just turns into another fire speed mod. I realize that it's calculated differently, but tactically it would be a fire speed increase (especially noticable with Lethal Torrent). Even ignoring ammo efficiency problems with pretty much all of the machinegun type weapons, making multishot a non-required mod by making it use up ammo doesn't actually work. If people want the mod slot for non-multishot purposes, they can remove the multishot mod. Yes, it will nerf their damage, but that's the exact same nerf that would happen when multishot takes ammo and is dropped out of the required list. Basically, you can't just say "Hey, this mod is used too much" and nerf it into the ground. It's used that much because it's an intregal part of the game. Nerfing it properly (which I still think is a bit of a bad idea) requires a complete rebalancing or a complete rework of damage. I realize that's a lot of work and damage 2.0 wasn't that long ago. That's why I'm saying don't change multishot.

Exilus Slot: I love having the extra slot for utility. Really the only complaint I have about the slot is that it's a little too hard to get the upgrade after the quest reward. It also means farming a lot more Forma, but I'm always in need of Forma anyways.

Brawler: I think he could be fun, although I have not seen any of his techs and I'm not sure they all exist at this point. So I will just let developement takes it's course and see how he turns out when released.

Endless rewards: I think the main problem I have is that certain rare parts are just too rare. My main example would be the Nova Prime Systems. I've been trying to get that from the Derelict Survival for a long time (I started farming just that part over a year ago, although over the past couple months I haven't been doing many Derelicy Survivals), and I'm probably going to just trade for it because apparently someone else out there has gotten it. Basically, I'm fine with the reward time spacing, but super rare rewards are way too rare.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Yargami

[(PSN)OMGitsScotteh]

The one about mods the mods need to be tweaked but not an atomic bomb like what Scott said.

[Myscho]

Nerfing damage mods like Serration/Hornet Strike or multishot solve nothing if you keep enemy hp/shield/armor scalling like is now, beyond lvl 60+ enemies start to be black hole, damage just disappear

[ReizoRyuu]

"required" mods simply need to be removed.

I don't see why it's so hard for weapons simply to get stronger as you level them, serration (lets say till like 100%) should be completely innate.

 

These mods are honestly just straight up garbage.

[Metamorphmas]

In compensation for messing up builds DE should give everyone 5 free forma.

[Technologic141]

Required Mods - Multishot nerf is fine. It worked excatly in Dark Sector with mod called "doble shot". Stick together rifl/shot/pist/snip scavenger auras in one ammo scavenger what increase pickup for all weapons (it will forward this aura with multishot change). Increase ammo capacity on weapons like twin vipers (from 210 -> 840) Boost vigor from +120% -> +240% and make primed vigor +385% , this mod (and basic variant) shoud won't stack with vitallity/redirection. Do same with serration and heavy calliber (together +330%), make primed serration or heavy serration with 295% dmg -55% accuracy with block to stack with serration or heavy calliber. Why ? It reduce basic mods on one with little health/dmg sacrafice but it give you new free slot for use so its on player what he chose.

Mod Slots - All players always want more slots for more mods. Exilus mod is fine because is for multiformated frames. Currently is worth for 4+ forma frames. But you can add one slot for parkour 2.0 mods. Why ? Only mods for exilus is handspring and rush. Ill try other and they dont worth, parkour 2.0 mods are good and useful but not worth.

Survival - Survival is part of every action game. But this one is boring with enemy scaling. Speak about T4. 20 mint take to warm up, 20-30 is funny part. 30-40 bombard rocket party. 40+ booben bastile camp. I like how you made Excavation (most famous Triton). Its up to players how many excavators you activate together and enemy is scaled by criotic but you must farm energy. So you can reach 3k criotic in 20 mins with 80lvl enemy and that is prety quick. This is cool and funny but it is all about players what they can handle. Make some similar for void but for capsules (maybe new type of mission). Example: Lotus send life support, you must protect it, pickup enemy capsules and put them in to life support. It take 120 sec to protect to fill life support. Life support wont be destructable but hackable by nearest consoles by enemy (camp reduction). If enemy hack life support player lost current rotation but increase life support (like excavation). So you must protect area from hacking. It will be on players if they go slow one per one or they protect 3 life supports together with quicker rewards and quicker enemy scaling.

[Kainosh]

Brawler lore.....

 

Brawl =/= kung-fu.   Its more like...a fight in prison or a bar.   Tough dudes with lots of tattoo....thats what comes in mind when i hear word "brawler"

 

I think his lore should include a ship filled with prisoners, that got in the "void" somehow.

 

And our "Brawler" can be one of those prisoners. 

 

 

Passive...

 

2x combo counter.  2 points for 1 hit.

[MichaelSD]

Eximus: ok, I have no gripes with it, it should have been standard a long ago

Damage mods: it is not the mods, but the damage system which needs fixing

Brawler: do not like it, we have Rhino and Valkyre for that already

Endless missions: yes, make them shorter please

[Ka_Bali_Pena]

What I really have to add to this discussion is something about mods and mod slots.

1)
There'll be mods that eventually will hardly ever be used (at least, on a regular basis).
Mods like Warm Coat, Insulation, Flame Repellent, etc.

Maybe these mods could also become usable in the Exilus mod slot. I'm sure it would be a viable option for some missions to just change the Exilus mod.

Another mod that I think no longer makes sense in the aura is the Speed Holster mod. This could easily become a Exilus mod. (Despite the fact that would stop buffering teammates.)

--

2)
Meanwhile, I think that the actual capacity drain on certain Exilus mods should be revised. Some mods drain too much capacity points.

--

3)
Other thing that I've been thinking about is that another type of equipment should be added to the game. Kinda like boots or something.
Mods like Rush, Heavy Impact, etc could be usable in this new equipment. Maybe starting with 1 slot only and later have some primed version with 2 slots or something like that. (In this case, maybe these mods should only be usable in this slot, unlike the Exilus slot)

Could also have a new mod to give some extra impulse, or use some kind of multiplier in the equipment itself. 
Example: 
- Boots A gives +10% running speed; 
- Boots B gives +5% running speed and +5% jump impulse.

(Just don't know what would happen to Sprint Boost aura mod though... it's always handy to boost the rest of the squad lol, but I also think it's not really used anymore)

--

This way we could have several build options for different types of players, without "buffing" the player too much.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Ka_Bali_Pena

[Michelozzo]

About Required Mods

 

If there was some inherent scaling in guns that keeps them on par with enemy scaling assuming you're using a weapon of the appropriate level, then the issue of required mods would more or less resolve itself. You would have to remove mods that just add flat damage bonuses (or rework them in some way preferably, I don't think anyone with a primed point blank or even a normal serration maxxed out would want to part with all that work) but you could still use elemental weapons to get an edge over the baseline, but not in such a way as to be mandatory. Particularly on guns that already do elemental damage.

 

About Exilus Slot

 

The slot is neat, and I honestly wish you could use them on other things besides the mobility mods on your frame. I'm not at the point where I need them yet, but conceptually I'd love to slot like, Ammo Drum or something in those on my ammo hungrier guns. Also I honestly thought it would not cost mod power to use the slot, and was a bit disappointed when I installed my first one and only got an extra slot out of the deal. Maybe regardless of symbol a mod that can be slotted there is half off?

 

About Brawler Frame

 

Hopefully he can be made without stepping on Valkyr's toes too much, and be a frame that's more about skillful execution of martial arts techniques over Valkyr's RAWR approach to melee. Maybe cheap, micromanagement heavy abilities with high rewards for weaving them mid melee sequence? Just a thought

 

About Endless Mission Scaling

 

I'd love to get to Rotation C sooner on missions, as I'm sure most people are, but I'd have to wonder if the mission might get too hectic too quickly when more than one person is involved. Idle thought - reduce the number of waves per rotation by 1. So its four waves per reward. Might be all that's needed.

[Yargi]

Required mods: OK, I can see that there is some tweaking to be done here. However, it light of the proposed multishot change, you can't just take one aspect of a loadout and nerf it to death just because it's always used. All that will accomplish is make enemy scaling even more of a problem. In fact, I'm of the opinion that a plain nerf isn't the answer at all. If DE is unhappy with how the current damage tables/mod loadouts are working, then damage as a whole might be the problem. Personally, I think that it's OK for multishot to be a "required" mod, as it is using up a mod slot just like everything else. The downside of multishot is that you only have seven slots left (six if you include the weapon's base damage mod, and five for secondaries that use Lethal Torrent). Now, if you wanted to add a Corrupted mod that did something like added more multishot but used ammo, that would be fine. Just don't nerf the pre-existing multishot that you've let us use and get used to for over a year.

Exilus slot: I'm actually fairly satisfied with the Exilus slot.

Brawler: I will wait until he actually gets released to make an opinion. Hopefully he won't make Valkyr too outdated, especially with Valkyr's quality of life updates coming in soon.

Endless missions: I think the main thing would be that the rare rewards are a little too rare. That and farming the same mission over and over gets a little dull, although both of these might be solved by whatever it is that DE is planning to do to the Void (apparently burn it to the ground?).

Edited September 17, 2015 by Yargi