September 11Th: Community Hot Topics!

[bl4ckhunter]

about required mods: people were upset by this becouse 

1 secondaries are two times as reliant on multishot as primaries so if this comes to pass all secondaries would need a big buff

2 before you do something with ammo you need to rework the ammo sistem, namely you need to do ammo 2.0. the current sistem has reached the critical point where more and more weapons just can't keep up (s.gammacor, kohm,kohmak, glaxion, grakatas, smg secondaries in general) it needs a rework. a big one. and it needs it asap

3 they fear they won't be compensated if you tamper with serration 

 

the exilius slot should be inbuild in frames or at least should not require forma and symaris rep to unlock, there are enough forma and time sinks than needes already even without it, it already compelles people to forma frames at least 3 times to even use it, it doesn't need additional costs

 

not gonna talk about bacon, it is obivious that rewards should scale with difficulty i can't believe it took 3 years to even acknowlege this as a topic, seriously this is just ridiculous.

[ChameleonDude]

Required Mods

I truly want to see all of these altered in some way. Personally, I would go with:

 

* + Damage mods removed, completely. Have this damage gradually added to the weapon as it levels up.

* Multi-shot mods removed and make multi-shot part of the Focus system. After truly mastering it, multi-shot can be played with. I'm not sure how Focus will play out, but I'm hoping to see something akin to a trait tree. Some lines are linear, others could branch. Due to the strength of multi-shot, it should be a linear path that other options don't have to compete with, otherwise we'll just get the same problem arising again. Also, round out the numbers. 90%/220%/280% are stupid numbers. I don't want a 90% chance for that double shot I need for the kill, I want 100%!

* Elemental mods and physical mods should alter the damage types, not be raw additions to weapon strength. I'm not too sure how this will work without stepping on the toes of weapons unique for their damage types, but it's worth exploring. Any lost damage from this would be made up for in the same style as + damage mods change, or from a complete balance overhaul of warframes, weapons and enemies.

* Critical mods... a tricky one. If nothing else adds damage, these will be + damage mods and make crit weapons the best choice. Not being a fan of chances, I won't offer a suggestion here - it would be biased.

* Warframe power mods (strength, range, efficiency, duration) need a look at. Removing these will affect build diversity, but leaving them as they are will make other mods unwanted. Corrupted mods that fall into this category desperately need addressing. While they're suppose to provide more options, they're simply used to make some abilities useless. With the new focus on synergy and not wanting frames to get away with negative stats (i.e. discussion around Saryn's rework), I honestly don't think these mods have a home. Remove these mods and the game will be a lot easier to balance and abilities will be used more often.

[Azamagon]

Required mods and Exilus slots

 

These should be handled in combination. Currently, there are 2 types of mods: Combat and utility.

Combat mods are our progression mods (Serration, Redirection etc).

Utility are our, well, utility mods (Maglev, Stabilizer etc)

The problem is that these mods are using the same modslots and modpool. Since Combat mods are superior in MOST cases, since we can only unlock ONE Exilus slot, and since Exilus modding still takes from the regular modpoolpoints, we are not seeing much diversity.

 

That can be alleviated however:

 

1) "Required" mods need to have more diversity among them (Such as, no stacking of Corrupted AND regular version, either the safe but weaker Serration OR the powerful but risky Heavy Caliber, not never both) and a lot of tweaking (mainly toning down a lot of the damageboosting mods).

My take on that here

 

2) That above thread (plus this one) also speaks of expanding the Exilus slot system. It could be a way to open up utility modding for EVERYTHING. Give us several (2 or 3) free exilus-slots on each Warframe/Companion/Weapon/whatever, allow us to unlock one extra Exilus slot with the Simaris item and give Exilus modding its own modding pool! That way you'd DEFINITELY see more utilitymods being used.

 

Doing these 2 things (rebalancing mods AND expanding Exilus) allows for the progression mods ("combat" mods) and the utility mods (exilus mods) to flourish together with little to no competition with one another!

Edited September 11, 2015 by Azamagon

[FierceRadiance]

The Brawler needs a head.  Calling him 'unfinished' is being polite.  What kind of a helmet will he wear, a Kleenex box? (or, for hockey fans, "...a twelve-pack box?")

 

I don't care for a Warframe whose only power is not having a power, other than brute strength ("Ability 1) Hit Things Harder.  Ability 2) See Ability One") 

 

I trust that DE is a very creative bunch, and this WF won't really be this simple.  But still...not anticipating being a fan.

[Sannidor]

1 - Freeing a slot seems like a great idea, Serration can vanish as long as the refund will be decent. This is tons of cores and credits worth when maxed.

Weapon could do initial 20% damage on level 1 and level 30 would mean 100%, potato doubles it to 200% and we're close to a solution. All now useless weapons should be reworked, nothing justifies fun mechanics and design being wasted only because it's a low mastery required weapon.

 

2 - Exilus became mandatory, just like potato and 6 formas on everything. The sooner we get the same treatment to weapons and sentinels, the better.

 

3 - Brawler looks weird but I can live with it. Please, send Mynki on a LONG vacation. Send him on a bloody Orokin Moon with no air supply.

 

4 - Rework rewards quality first, quicker does not mean better - we're sick of rotation RNG throwing junk... Improve AI, FIX GLITCHES. Stop forcing unnecessary improvements, even if it's not the same people working on various tasks it still feels horrible from players perspective when community clearly speaks what are the priorities

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Damage bonuses for elemental/IPS mods should go, Corrupted damage mods for all weapons should be +180% with downsides, normals should be +165% with no downsides, and Nightmare should be +150% with a bonus positive. However, they should be weapon aura slots, and not be stackable. That way progression mods can still exist, but even then build diversity can vary greatly. In addition, scaling should be reworked.

For more on all of this, reworking crits, mods like Thunderbolt or Concealed Explosives, and more, my thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/523087-now-is-the-time-to-change-damage-mods-and-scaling/#entry5855606

Edited September 11, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Homer87]

Unfortunately there is also another required mod - Corrosive Projection. Also look at how many augments strip armor. This alone is an indication that enemies also need a fix. While I prefer that the "required" mods on rifles and such not be touched, I would like some way to adjust my build as a means if it does happen. Such as changing around the forma without having to level the weapon all over again.

[RiouHotaru]

Required Mods

 

Unfortunately, there's no real way to deal with these, so I say leave them as is, and tweak them on a case-by-case basis.  Required mods, are like required gear in any other MMO.  You always gear for certain stats, so with Warframe there's going to be certain mods that will be always in a build, whether you want them too or not.

[KoshLovesYou]

I really hope the Brawler Warframe stands out, power-wise. Valk comes to mind as a survivor/brawler type already, so I'm saving my opinion for a better look at how Brawlerframe stands out as an interesting (or not) Warframe. 

[akira_him]

1&4: fix enemy armor & health scaling first than we talk about this

Edited September 12, 2015 by akira_him

[DeejayPwny]

A rework of "required" mods would require rebuilding enemy scaling, as well as player scaling. This isn't something you can just suddenly decide to change a single thing. The entire syst has developed around these mods, and if they are to change, so must everything else.

[EmptyDevil]

Also, the Exilus slot should be energy cost free. 

 

Aura slot       - (positive) -    gives energy

 

Exilus slot     - (neutral) -     neither gives nor takes energy

 

Regular slot  - (negative) -  takes energy

 

I agree 100% on the quoted. Please consider this DE. Exilus slot should be neutral.

 

Brawler frame

 

I have no opinion but i hope his abilities get boosted by the Steel Charge aura mod.

[TimFlint]

1.) "Required mods" - Other

They should be reworked and affected weapons should be looked at. But more importantly everything else in the modding system AND in the ammo system deserves a look. It all ties together - change multishot mods to consume ammo and already ammo inefficient weapons become worthless. Their ammo pool and more importantly the rate of ammo drops and how much ammo they give simply make some weapons dangerously "Twin Viper'ish" already. Many guns already need ammo mutation to function, even without fire rate mods.

Then all the other mods: diversity is nice and good. But only changing ONE thing doesn't fix the problem that so SO many mods are just.. bad. Really bad. All of the non-even physical damage mods, for example. Status chance and duration mods. If the mods aren't overhauled as a whole I don't see a nerf to multishots fixing anything.

 

2.) "Exilus slot" - Other

Good idea, terrible, almost "cashgrabby" implementation. It requires more Forma to make it all fit, meaning more specialized fixed polarities, less diversity. Also: single use blueprint for quite a bit of reputation that requires 2 Forma. That's a huge investement in time and resources for every single frame. And for me, right now, absolutely not worth it.

 

3.) "Brawler frame" - No opinion

We don't know enough about it. But after Equinox turned out 50% good and 50% "eh" but came with a boring RNG heavy grind I'm not holding my breath.

 

4.) "Endless missions" - Other

They shouldn't exist. At all.

I can understand WHY they exist - it gives some semblance of an endgame, where every player can go for as long to as challenging as they want. But:

a) Doing the boring is good and saves you from more and less rewarding boring: 20 minutes of Defense is alright, 40 minutes is stretching it. More than that is just... ugh. But unless you want to spend hours farming keys you need to go for as long as you can.

b) Their very existence spits in the face of balance in the game. Frames and weapons seem to be designed with 20 waves/minutes T4 in mind, and that's ok. But some abilities and weapons simply scale so much better and are still good at 120 minutes and beyond. This shouldn't be. ALL frames should be, roughly, capable of going for the same time.

c) The first 15 minutes / waves are boring filler. Enemy numbers and difficulty ramp up sooo slooow. You're wasting too much time with not much happening. Survival is a bit better now, at least we get somewhat enough spawns within the first 5 minutes now, but it still feels like the game wasting my time in a boring way because otherwise I might be done too quick. And let's be honest - we want the C-rotation and eff the rest. Cramming each and every desireable piece of prime gear or mods into the C-rotation doesn't help. Neither does filling AAB with.. junk, really. Downright junk. Waste of time.

d) No challenge except MORE enemies with MORE armor. Tactics, skill, teamplay don't matter. If the only thrill is more and more enemies that sponge up more bullets with every wave then.. well, it's really not much of a thrill at all.

I could go on, endlessly, but I wont. But I could.

 

[TennoSimons]

I would like for the brawler frame to not just be a heavy punch-in-the-face type character.

 

We already have such a heavy in the form of Rhino.

 

Rather, I would like him to be more of an agile martial artist type of brawler - still heavy and muscular, but agile and graceful (and have this reflected in his powers), more monk-like in theme rather than mere bully bruiser. 

 

 

That is,I would like for his powers to have punches AND kicks. Warframe is sadly lacking in cool kicks. Even the punch-kick stance has NO kicks in quick attack (which is silly if you ask me - when I want to just punch, I will equip the fist weapons).  

 

DE, please let the Brawler fill this kicking void and not contribute to the already saturated punch animations. 

[Clawtank96]

Before you touch the mods enemy scaling needs to be looked at. 95% damage reduction and 50k hp make it to were we have to have these mods.

[Doom_Bunny]

Required mods:

In my opinion damage, health, shield etcetera mod(s) should not be required to play. Rather I think mods should be about changing the weapon/frame, augments are a good example of this. This doesn't mean take away crits, elements, and other mods. Those mods change your damage type thus allows for the player to be creative.

 

Of course removing required mods would mean that how we gain damage/health/shield/energy, and the current enemy scaling would have to be overhauled

 

Exilus slot:

It's ok, not great but ok. Making this slot cost capacity is it's main downfall. Anyone that wants to use this slot for maxed mobility mods will have to forma their frame many times or forgo using multiple r10 mods on that frame reducing their survivability. Having this exilus slot cost capacity causes people to see this as just another slot, the only difference being that it's reserved for only mobility mods.  However if this dedicated slot is changed to add capacity it would be too much as we already have the aura slot.

 

The other downfall of this slot is that it doesn't accommodate augments. Many people have been asking for an augment slot before the announcment of the Exilus slot. The problem is putting another dedicated slot on would seem a bit overkill. It would be easier for the Exilus slot to be reserved for both augments and mobility mods.

 

Brawler:

It looks great, that's about all I can say.

Lore: In the concept image he appears headless I would play off that but that is only the concept image.

Powers: I assume that because he is a brawler most (if not all) of his powers will be short range. I just hope that they are powerfull enough to compensate.

Passive: For his passive I imagine something like a last chance or second wind. This is mostly off some old movies (like Rocky), there is almost always a part where the fighter will get up against all odds.

 

Endless Scaling:

To be frank I've barely noticed the survival changes. Still getting plentiful life support and still going for the regular time. There are still some moments of only 1-4 enemies on the map or none at all due to spawning speed, or someone decided to either camp or raid a spawn point. Though I think that this might not be a problem in the future because of frame reworks and required mod changes.

 

Faster scaling: I don't enjoy having to go for so long but with the current reward table faster scaling sounds like it would hurt. My question is how would the reward system work and how would the rewards be faster?

 

Secondary objectives: It all depends on what the secondary objective is. Will it reward me? Does it cause something bad if not completed? However before we even have secondary objectives, I would like to see the main objective work greatly before putting more objectives on top of it.

 

Survival for instance should have the players always moving. Life support is a good way to do this however personal life support drops causes flaws in the system. Defence just needs something to distract from the fact that you've been on top of this pod for the last hour. The Uranus defence mission is a good example of how defence can be fun and keep the players active.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Postal_pat

[(XBOX)Skode]

EVERYONE wants a third slot... For augments.

[00zau]

Rather than rework "required" mods, increase options by making mutually exclusive alternatives. For example, if Heavy Caliber gave more damage than Serration, but you could only equip one, neither would be "mandatory" since you'd get to chose between both of them.

 

For faster scaling and rewards in missions: I've suggested making it so that life support gained while at 100% (possibly only from 30% modules) speeds up the clock; you have the option to wait the full 20 or 40 minutes, or take the risk of blowing capsules early to speed it up. Defense missions should probably be knocked down to 3 waves per reward.

Edited September 12, 2015 by 00zau

[88th_Phantom]

Glad to see that, in order for the required mods to be changed, an entire rework of the damage scaling of weapons has been notified internally.
I feel in a much better position knowing that we're definitely on the same page with this.
 

[(PSN)Shatter02]

Required Mods: I believe they should be reworked instead of having them as "mods" but make them into different models of that weapon with visual uniqueness for example a multi shot "version" of that weapon would have a larger magazine and a second barrel and a serration version would a longer barrel or stronger "shot" sound of course in order to balance these ideas multi shot versions will of course have increase ammo consumption and serration version will have more recoil. enemy scaling will also have to be reworked to bring it in line. simply an idea feel free to build on it or not at all.

 

Brawler Frame: Not a lot of info so its kind of premature to give any real feedback. In terms of looks i dont really like it but nothing is perfect a sash that represents his degree in his martial art in tenno fashion would be pretty cool especially with cloth physics and evolves as the frame ranks up.

 

Survival: this is a difficult one to tackle so many things have to be taken into consideration lets start with life support...it should go we can fly in space with a warframe with no need to hunt oxygen or swim under water it makes no sense so we remove life support all together and instead introduce something called ascension model. players will have to gather void energy through killing enemies or special canisters found only in the void this voide energy will power the acension mode which when activated augments your waframe and powers will have different properties for example Volts shock will be continuous stream of lightning and his shield can be used as a regular shield or as a compacted sword with devastating effect. this mode should be used when in really tight spots. however acension mode only lasts for a set time then your warframe is left in a weakend state with less health and shields and you will have to collect more energy while fighting off enemies this is where regular powers are still important you still have to use them to survive. this does three things 1. gives us a sense of terror and like a real fight to survive we are weakened and struggling. 2. keeps the basic concept of survival forcing players to move and work together while fighting off hoardes of enemies. 3. Brings a fresh and much needed chage to the void mission the longer we survive the better chance of loot we get. Let us be the gods we are made to be! I realize its alot to take in but its an idea feel free to build upon it or not.

Edited September 12, 2015 by (PS4)Shatter02

[TPtv]

Normal modding slots are needed more than exilus slot.

You are unable to provide a system that entirely useless to the user.

[TPtv]

This will give you knowledge not only nerf to develop properly.
You will not have Warframe developers. You are in nerframe developers.

[macronutrients]

Fix the farm for the exilus slot and the terrible RNG for the quest, and make it not take up mod space.

I think mods and enemy scaling need a huge rework.

[HardcoreSalmon]

1. I'm unsure about his question. Yes there are many mods that you literally have to bring on a weapon but that is because of more than one thing. It's because multishot, serration and elementals give the most dps and are the only viable options at high levels and because most other mods suck. It's not just simply rebalancing serration and multishot, the other mods that could take their place need to be worth taking too. (eg critical delay, magazine size, reload speed, base status mods, stability or accuracy mods)

 

2. I like the exilus mod slot but the requirements to get them are way to high. They are there to create build diversity and then they have crazy requirements to get. Maybe I just feel like I need them on every frame but that should be a viable option without me having to farm simaris rep nonstop for 2 months or spend 400 platinum.

 

3. Can't comment on the brawler.

 

4. This has been a problem for a while and really defeats the points of going further in missions because it just isn't worth if you have more keys. People do ODD for 70 waves and still get t1 and t2 keys, I mean how is that balanced?

[Telogor]

1. Required mods need to be removed, and the ENTIRE weapon and enemy scaling system needs to be reworked.

 

2. The Exilus adapter is way too expensive.  The Exilus slot requires at least 2 extra Formae because it costs mod capacity.  I've only put an Exilus adapter on Loki Prime, and that's because I was barely able to squeeze in everything I needed and make a couple of compromises.

 

3. The Brawler looks decidedly meh.  I don't really enjoy melee too much because enemies are all ranged, and there are so many cooler things you could have done with Earth abilities.  His first power apparently uses the combo multiplier, which is STILL horrible.  It times out too fast, and even against Infested I can't build it past about 15 hits.  His second power seems to be another boring modification of the Ice/Water wave.  His third I'd expect to be pretty much the first half of Avalanche, which is fine, but really boring for an Earth frame.  His fourth is some sort of summoning ability, and that's never been very good.

     As a Brawler/Earth frame, I'd expect him to be really tanky and powerful, possibly with poor speed/cast time.  Earth magics/abilities are generally less showy than Fire, but just as destructive and powerful, and better against hordes of enemies.  I'm not really getting that impression from the concepts I've seen.  I'm not expecting to be very impressed with the frame upon release.

 

4. Survival, Defense, and Interception need to have their scaling and rewards buffed to Excavation's level.  Excavation can get really challenging really quickly, but the reward counts match that (though the reward quality could really be a lot better).  The other three endless modes are really slow and boring in comparison.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Telogor