[Spoiler] Proof Of The Warframe Psyche And A Disturbing Question

[45neo]

Honestly I doubt that the warframes have their own free will. And if you look closely in the second dream quest you will notice that the stalker is the one to move his hands first. Besides this action was more an action of hesitation on the stalkers part. When he realized we are people rather than mutant monsters he hesitated. And your operator looks at his/her own hands as an action to realize he/she is not the warframe but a human. I think the stalker is currently under the influence of the sentients. However this is not to say there isn't some personality stored in the warframe. While they might not be able to make actions of their own I think that each warframe has either some sort of placebo memory effect on the operator or has memories and feelings stored in the infested flesh contained in the suit. 

[Shad0wWatcher]

Being replayable is a must especially with all that effort put into it, it would just be a waste. =\

I'm uploading all 12 of them right now~

True...well...i'm alright with just being able to rewatch all the cutscenes instead of just the intro scene

[Zarozian]

True...well...i'm alright with just being able to rewatch all the cutscenes instead of just the intro scene

Yeah.

 

But I wonder what those choices at the end were for....

Edited December 9, 2015 by Zarozian

[Toppien]

i readed the rhino prime entry again, and it makes sense now

 

the waframes are monsters used as vesels for the power of the zariman orphans...

 

the tenno are the synergy betwen the monster and the operator.

 

the question is from where the monsters come from? its obvious they are not infested, they are something else

Edited December 9, 2015 by Toppien

[Zarozian]

After reading some of the answers more i question what i got from the the Second Dream quest.

First of all what i got was that the Stalker its actually a Tenno, not a warframe, he is indeed still dress with some of the Zariman suit, thats why he look at his hands while the Player Tenno look to, noticing the similarities with the Stalker, i thought that that was the reason why the Stalker hesitate in the first place.

About the Nature of the warframe i think they have their own will or consciousness but its replaced while a Tenno command them. In the Rhino entry  Davis said that no one could believe him, no one could believe that he found a way to control those weapons of mass destruction, so what we read on the entry was rhino with his own will or rage killing everything but when he got to the place were the Tenno was the warframe replace the consiosness with the pilot let say, making him look at his hands thinking that he killed all those people..

Well those are my thoughts and as many people have said we need more intel to get to conclusions, hope we get more in the next cinematic quest in Update 19 

I hope the next cinematic, is like, out on U18.1 or U18.5~ =/

 

I'm totally fine with them continuing the story~ No rewards necessary either~ They can give it to us if they want to~

 

But really though I'd play it just for the story, and that's their goal here. So that people will play Warframe for the story.

 

 

Also Rhino is awesome~

[Shad0wWatcher]

Yeah.

 

But I wonder what those choices at the end were for....

You mean the different things to say or the different schools?

[Shiniko]

I think Rhino Prime's Codex entry was a prototype for the Infested technology.

The Warframes, I think are Infested flesh somehow controlled to not spread like a cancer, and react to the Zariman minds.

 

Makes me wonder if, in the future, me may somehow be able to control the Infested as well, with a sufficient power boost or something.

[SilverBones]

I particually like this line;

 

"They are Golems, possessed by Devil Minds."

 

I think the Warframe is a purpose built, bio-mechanical surrogate (potentially by a strain of the technocyte). A living organism that is possessed by the minds of the Children of the Zariman Ten Zero. They are tools. Weapons. Armor. Nothing more in the eyes of their original creators, but to the Children of the Zariman, they are foci for their power.

 

A golem is a construct given life, remember. A golem possessed by a devil... now that is truly frightening. A symbiosis of destruction.

[OniDax]

Speaking of Excalibur's codex, the way its worded makes me wonder if he wasn't made in a different way from other frames? I mean, they must have gotten the idea vaguely described in the Rhino codex from somewhere. "Excalibur was the first" and yet they didn't have the technology down by the time they were working on the Rhino frame? That was before they knew the Zariman children could be used to control the would-be warframes, and yet they were already working on something, had already "turned to the void". Perhaps others had already "returned from that place" before the Zariman children.

 

Well, they might have been working on several at the time of the Rhino Prime Codex, but Excalibur probably was the first one that was actually completed.

 

But no, it's just the Zariman children, no one else.

Edited December 9, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[OniDax]

I think Rhino Prime's Codex entry was a prototype for the Infested technology.

The Warframes, I think are Infested flesh somehow controlled to not spread like a cancer, and react to the Zariman minds.

 

Makes me wonder if, in the future, me may somehow be able to control the Infested as well, with a sufficient power boost or something.

 

No. It's not that the Tenno can control the infested. It's that the Warframe's are specially made to allow Transference.

[Lakais]

The Tenno are the rejects consigned to Lua. No, there aren't any other "successful" ones. Excalibur's codex entry refers to the Tenno as being rejects.

I'll point out that Excal P's codex entry is one of the, if not THE oldest one about the nature of Warframes. So I'm going to take that with a bit a salt. There is also an option, considering the rather regal use of wording, that it might not be entirely word to word. A bit of sprinkling of propaganda BS. 

 

Why I think there could have been "successful" ones is because I think that's where the archetype, the blueprint for the Warframes we have came from. Since, as far as I can read from all this, the span of time between the Zariman incident and the actual "birth" of the Tenno was very long. I'd wager a guess at least a century if not more. I think this because of how those stories were worded. Personal opinion, nothing more. I can very well be wrong. 

 

But, then again. There is the option that the Rejects became Tenno. But the ones who were not rejected (again, suggesting some sort of process to be rejected from) might of lived and died far before the Tenno project got off the ground. So the Excalibur who was "the first". Might of not been a Tenno at all. Yes he could of been a Zariman orphan, directly put into a suit of armor, but since he wasn't doing it through transference, he wasn't a Tenno. 

As far fetched as any idea. But at this point, I won't put anything down. 

[Pavelord]

I noted in the quest Margulis line:

 

"this will stop the voices from taking hold"

 

And in the Ominous loading screen decyphered by the community:

 

"Margulis implantation intact".

 

My take on this is that the implant prevents the infested part of the frame link to the infested hive mind from taking over, I don't think it has a personality but there are conscious forces laying at the edge the frame.

 

In the cases of Mesa and Chroma, it was infested tissue made by Alad and Hunhow(?) looking for its fragments in Chromas' case, with the womb in the sky and all. Both of them were without tenno and neither went savage, I think. 

[OniDax]

I'll point out that Excal P's codex entry is one of the, if not THE oldest one about the nature of Warframes. So I'm going to take that with a bit a salt. There is also an option, considering the rather regal use of wording, that it might not be entirely word to word. A bit of sprinkling of propaganda BS. 

 

Why I think there could have been "successful" ones is because I think that's where the archetype, the blueprint for the Warframes we have came from. Since, as far as I can read from all this, the span of time between the Zariman incident and the actual "birth" of the Tenno was very long. I'd wager a guess at least a century if not more. I think this because of how those stories were worded. Personal opinion, nothing more. I can very well be wrong. 

 

But, then again. There is the option that the Rejects became Tenno. But the ones who were not rejected (again, suggesting some sort of process to be rejected from) might of lived and died far before the Tenno project got off the ground. So the Excalibur who was "the first". Might of not been a Tenno at all. Yes he could of been a Zariman orphan, directly put into a suit of armor, but since he wasn't doing it through transference, he wasn't a Tenno. 

As far fetched as any idea. But at this point, I won't put anything down. 

 

So, to make a long story short, you're rejecting the Excal/Excal Prime Codex entry because it doesn't fit your head canon and are using the excuse that it's old, even though it uses the same language that we see used in the quest (calling the Tenno "rejects", where no where else have they been called as such). Ok...

[vrdwrst]

Welp, Warframes always have used Flesh as their health type. Normal, boring, human (Corpus) Flesh.

Although Skates use Flesh too.

That thing in Rhino Prime codex was a mutated Skate.

SKATES

[Lakais]

So, to make a long story short, you're rejecting the Excal/Excal Prime Codex entry because it doesn't fit your head canon and are using the excuse that it's old, even though it uses the same language that we see used in the quest (calling the Tenno "rejects", where no where else have they been called as such). Ok...

I'm not rejecting it! I'm simply willing to read a bit further then what is written. Honestly, taking all this at complete face value without stretching it a bit with imagination is a bit boring, don't you think? 

 

The Tenno we are are Rejects. No denying that. I'm simply saying that the frames themselves have to be based on someone or something. So I'm letting my mind fly and came up with the OPTION that since there are Rejects, there could also be those who were not rejected.

 

Is it just a guess I pulled out of thin air? Yeah, since there isn't any straight up evidence for it.

Will I make a sad-face if I turn up to be wrong? No, not really. I made a guess and I was wrong, happens. 

Will I stop doing such wild imaginative farts? Hell no! This is way more fun then just sticking to what is blatantly told to us! 

[Avenwing]

I noted in the quest Margulis line:

 

"this will stop the voices from taking hold"

 

And in the Ominous loading screen decyphered by the community:

 

"Margulis implantation intact".

 

My take on this is that the implant prevents the infested part of the frame link to the infested hive mind from taking over, I don't think it has a personality but there are conscious forces laying at the edge the frame.

 

In the cases of Mesa and Chroma, it was infested tissue made by Alad and Hunhow(?) looking for its fragments in Chromas' case, with the womb in the sky and all. Both of them were without tenno and neither went savage, I think. 

It's also possible that the Void is something akin to the Warp from WH 40k. That would be freaking sweet.

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Immaterium

 

The tl:dr version of the wiki page is that the warp drives people insane while also granting them power. Also daemons live there and look for weakness in mortal minds to break through to the material realm.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Avenwing

[Zarozian]

You mean the different things to say or the different schools?

No like she asks us what we remember and then we make those choices~

 

I should of picked "Again" so I could select and choose all the choices to get all the lore~

 

I particually like this line;

 

"They are Golems, possessed by Devil Minds."

 

I think the Warframe is a purpose built, bio-mechanical surrogate (potentially by a strain of the technocyte). A living organism that is possessed by the minds of the Children of the Zariman Ten Zero. They are tools. Weapons. Armor. Nothing more in the eyes of their original creators, but to the Children of the Zariman, they are foci for their power.

 

A golem is a construct given life, remember. A golem possessed by a devil... now that is truly frightening. A symbiosis of destruction.

Actually he said "They are Gods, possessed by Devil Minds." 

 

I was able to redo it and read it~

 

A god is a being given life by those who believe in it's existence~ A god possessed by a devil...now that is even more frightening~ A embodiment of destruction.

[arch111]

I finally finished the dream and woke up. Man am I conflicted about the children.

On one hand I was expexting this, on the other hoping there would be more layers to the story.

I do however have a suggestion.

The Shadow has been in a Dark Place. We do not know where that is, but Lotus told us he went mad from the power in the Reservoir. He too can die and return. I suspect Steve was talking about this when he said the Umbras, a form of shadow, will have Lore.

Now, why are there 2 Dreams? Lotus hid the Tenno bodies and their link? To the Power. She made up a story about us but we now know we slept in the Void, the Margolis-link to our warframe and Liset still intact.

The Tenno started out as an experiment. It was a failure. Most of the ones who returned were damaged by the Void and put into stasis.

But here comes the point. The sucessful ones were turned into warframes. They were strong, and were perhaps the beginning of the Infestation.

Rhino Prime Codex tell us countless were made and discarded. What if these were pure technocyte.

The sdq speak of Assimilation. And that the warframes failed. So the first iteration was a human from the void, MERGED into a warframe.

Excalibur, Limbo and Mirage may have been these first, the Primes.

That's why Mirage was lost.

The second time, the children connected with the warframes instead, and a weapon that was in essense Immortal was created.

The first dream was the Tenno gaining their powers, locked into stasis and told the Lie: the Excalibur Codex.

They believed they were wearing the warframes, but that was never true.

What then of the Stalker and the Sentients? Was stalker a void-returnee? Was he a Dax? Or was he and the Guardians assimilated humans into warframes?

Why else bring that up unless both existed - especially since they wanted to kill the children.

I still think we are missing a piece. The name Devils, the stopping of the voices.

Oh, and FINALLY we can say for sure that a Tenno can be infested.

Any of this make any sense to anyone?

[Yrveth]

Actually he said "They are Gods, possessed by Devil Minds." 

 

Could you provide a screenshot of this? Everyone else seems to have seen it as "golems".

[HAMMERSAREGREAT]

A nice twist would be if the Warframes themselves were created from the corpses of the Zariman adults/Infested tech.

 

Mommy.....?

So make warframe even more evangelion? Sure, why not.

[Gemini_Jenvas]

Your theory is quite interesting and makes me think that warframes could be their own beings, not just tools.

I know that Hayden Tenno doesn't quite belong into the lore for warframe, but I think of him as a hybrid of part Tenno, as a controller of warframe powers, but not through void magic and part warframe, as he mutates through the technocytes influence.

The Orokin could probably not quite figure out how to control warframes, like the thing from Rhino primes codex, but they did manage to create the Neural Sentry, that is capable of controlling and enchancing machines and organisms.

 

The Warframes we know now can be seen as based on Hayden, they use the technocyte to fuse flesh and synthetic materials, have their own minds that are rather rudimentary and more feral, but they do welcome the control and the purpose a Tenno can give them. (Just one does not: The Stalker). The Orokin probably also used their cloning technology to duplicate templates that emerged and so created the different types of warframes we now use, making warframes and Tenno a combination of all of their most powerful creations.

 

The infested are similar to warframes, just not modified and without control, so they  hold onto each other and form a hivemind, with some individuals evolving far enough to gain more sentience. (Remember old J3s quote "Why do you reject us? We are your flesh")

[Zarozian]

Could you provide a screenshot of this? Everyone else seems to have seen it as "golems".

Sadly I cannot. ;<

They say that in the solo part of the quest and I was too busy fighting Sentients to press F6.

[xndo]

I'm gonna put a little knowledge drop here, so basically, back in the Beta days all that was converted to us was that the Tenno were not humans. And we kinda went with the notion that the Warframes were Tenno, so a popular theory was that we were all worms akin to the Hunters from the Halo franchise. Naturally, it was a bit of a joke, but we didn't have much to go on.

When Valkyr came out, a LOT of story was being theory crafted, particularly in regards to her suffering and the lasting psychological effects it had on the frame. Which, naturally, would have required a strong base. So not worms. It was here where I first ascribed to the theory that the frames we all play as are simply copies of the originals, since we need to gather blueprints and what not.

Now, there's this other theory I had read in articles from the past about how people who play games a bit differently tend to experience it differently, and draw different conclusions. This is where my main point stands.

When my Valkyr ripped the War out of her, I didn't see an operator controlling her frame. I saw a hint of Valkyr's personality, former BEING, tired of being controlled and trying to break the bonds thrown back on her.

[Zarozian]

Could you provide a screenshot of this? Everyone else seems to have seen it as "golems".

At 18:50.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Zarozian

[Yrveth]

At 18:50.

 

I found a

of the quest run, and although I can't hear the voiceover at the moment, it's definitely subtitled "golems" (around 44:50-ish)