Strun Wraith Changes

[(XBOX)Skode]

Yep, just what I need on the Strun Wraith - a wasted modslot.

But on Strun Wraith its NOT a wasted modslot lol. I like the reload thing, its unique... a hindrance yes but the Strun series is meant to be low tier - it even features as a starter weapon.

[bubbabenali]

But on Strun Wraith its NOT a wasted modslot lol. I like the reload thing, its unique... a hindrance yes but the Strun series is meant to be low tier - it even features as a starter weapon.

100% status with Corrosive/ fire is not low tier.

If it wasn't for the clunky reload mechanics the Strun Wraith was top notch on the level of the Hek.

Before the change it was my go to gun for infested missions but the reload now is just to slow and I'd rather choose damage over reload time on shotguns.

And now with the imense damage buff for the Heks and the Tigris, status isn't even needed on shotgunds anymore

[Soup2504]

If you prove that the Strun Wraith is better than the regular Strun, that's good. At least that's something that isn't outclassed by a lower tier weapon.

alright here it is:

Apologies for talking, I guess, as it does slow the video down, but I find it easier to talk as I'm doing something than type after I do it. Also, sorry for constant mic instead of push to talk. Geforce experience refuses to open, so I can't make shadowplay voice recording push to talk currently.

The builds for both guns are different, as they both have different statistics. I do not think going for the same build on both guns is a good idea, as the regular strun just doesn't cut it for crit or status chance. If need be, I will also record video of a status built strun against heavy gunners, but, since it cannot reach 100% status chance with the same damage types, it is not as good (I have been testing that, as well). Shotgun status chance is very very weird, because at ~84% status chance on the regular strun, it doesn't proc as often as you'd think ~84% status chance would.

EDIT: I recorded it anyways

 

Near identical build (only difference is +50% crit damage instead of +60%). Performs even worse than a full damage strun. Also I said it's "arguably worse than a full damage built strun" in the video but . "arguably" was not the right word. It is definitely worse.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Soup2504

[-N7-Leonhart]

While no one would use the Braton over Braton Prime, the mk1 Braton is better than the regular Braton due to the increased slash damage of the mk1 Braton.

This is something I never understood.

Or why the mk1 Paris is better than the regular Paris, being that the freed slot that does not require a speed mod allows for way more damage than the regular Paris packs. 

 

If you prove that the Strun Wraith is better than the regular Strun, that's good. At least that's something that isn't outclassed by a lower tier weapon.

 

Where is a downvote button when you need it? You must be crazy to even insinuate the regular Strun is better than the Strun Wraith.

 

I will tell you what the difference is. Literally every stat there is being double or almost double, with the exception of the base damage, which is equal.

The difference is so great, that you can kill a fully armored lvl 105 Heavy Gunner over 2x faster with the Strun Wraith.

[Magneu]

Granted I used Chroma with 170% strength so it's biased, but with a 100% status/Seeking Fury/Laser Sight build, before the buff, I two shot level 105 gunners to the head, and it scales much, much better than syndicate shotguns due to the obscene amount of armor it melts, constant Impact/Fire procs, good DoT due to Fire/Slash, instant 30% reduction in damage output on enemies due to puncture, and the decent crit chance (great with Laser Sight) makes headshots do a LOT of damage. 

 

Here's a video from about three months ago; build was 3 dual stats, Blaze, P Point Blank, Hell's Chamber, Seeking Fury, and P Ravage (was testing; 90% elemental mod does better, and now Laser Sight does a LOT better). Pretty good weapon to me, especially combined with a tanky frame/damage buff frame (Accelerant Ember, Chroma, etc). 

 

 

If not aiming for heavy's heads, blind firing into a crowd with Seeking Fury guarantees that they'll be stopped for a couple seconds due to Fire procs, and each shot during said procs will stagger them with impact (haven't tested new changes to "impulse").

 

Is it a super high damage per shot weapon? No. But it's definitely got it's own niche and it performs pretty freaking well in it.

 

Sorry for fanboying, I missed the first Strun Wraith and lost my mind when I finally got it over Kubrow weekend.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Strun Wraith is amazing specially with corrosive against armored targets. Stacking corrosive procs on armored targets might be better than raw damage depending on how the weapon is built.

[taiiat]

Reload Time wasn't 'increased'. it's the same as it was before. the TTR/TTL each Shell is still the same. making it basically the same as it was before.

granted, before Strun Wraith took 512.5ms to load each Shell, and is now 500ms even.

 

still should be in the 250ms range...

 

 

also fun fact, Strun Wraith already did about the same Damage as Strun (and always has) despite having lower Damage values because it's a lot more Accurate and has much higher Crit Stats.

i.e. didn't need more Damage whatsoever. but powercrepe w/e.

 

 

also let's go to the classroom of derp:

Sequential Reloading is literally superior to 'Magazine' Reloading. it allows you to do SOME Reloading even if you have almost no time for Reloading.

because if you get interrupted while 'Magazine' Reloading, it cancels and you... have to start over. (which i made a Thread about improving but i digress, Warframe would benefit a lot from adopting many mechanics from Battlefield though)

 

anyone saying they don't like Sequential Reloading needs to get a reality check and identify if what they're REALLY saying is they don't like the TTR/TTL each unit of Ammo or that they cosmetically don't like moving their arm more than once to Reload.

the Former doesn't mean Sequential Reloading is inherently bad, and the latter doesn't mean Sequential Reloading is inherently bad.

what means Sequential Reloading is inherently bad? literally nothing.

 

lacks Status

uwotm8

 

surely you're trolling.

[JuanDeages]

I just can not understand the people that defend this trash reload speed DE decided to tack onto the Strun and Strun Wraith. Do any of you even play past level 60? It's painful to use where it shines best. It has the ability to strip armor with ease, yet after their armor is gone you have to sit there and reload for FIVE SECONDS, which is just not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. I think the magic number that most good weapons max out in reload time is 3 seconds. Anything more than that is needlessly painful.

 

And yes I know, just reload on the go blah blah. Listen, that's cool and all when it literally one shots, but when you are dumping entire magazines into the enemy, reloading fast is pretty damn useful. I would gladly trade those two extra shots and the extra damage for the 1.5 second full magazine reloads back. No questions asked.

Edited January 30, 2016 by JuanDeages

[KotoKuraken]

I must apologize to Soup. I'm glad you proved the Strun Wraith is significantly better than the regular Strun by a bunch, maybe it was because I tried to use the Strun from the distance (my aim is probably bad when aiming for the head).

 

The Strun Wraith is rather growing on me, and I'm liking it more. Guess I jumped to conclusions too quickly.

[Magneu]

I must apologize to Soup. I'm glad you proved the Strun Wraith is significantly better than the regular Strun by a bunch, maybe it was because I tried to use the Strun from the distance (my aim is probably bad when aiming for the head).

 

The Strun Wraith is rather growing on me, and I'm liking it more. Guess I jumped to conclusions too quickly.

Civility on the forums? UNACCEPTABLE. WE NEED FIVE SALT BUCKETS ASAP!

[Petersheikah]

I've been using the Strun Wraith since it came out, and it quickly became my favourite weapon. Then they added this new reload mechanic. I HATE it, but that's just my opinion. What isn't my opinion though is that it take around 5 seconds to reload the gun. Who thought turning a fast weapon with high fire rate and reload speed into the slowest shotgun was a good idea? The thing I liked about Strun Wraith was that it traded its average damage with speed and versatility, but now it just feels clunky.

Either drastically reduce its reload time or bring back the old reloading mechanic. Why would anyone use this weapon with shotguns like Tigris or Hek?

But on Strun Wraith its NOT a wasted modslot lol. I like the reload thing, its unique... a hindrance yes but the Strun series is meant to be low tier - it even features as a starter weapon.

Following your logic then the Paris Prime would be a low tier weapon because we have the mk1 Paris and Paris which are starter weapons. On a weapon like the Tigris you can waste a slot for reload speed or punch through because it oneshots anything anyways. The Strun just removes armor. You can just bring a Corrosive Projection or a Abaiting Link Trinity and the weapon becomes a low damaging shotgun with a five seconds reload speed. That's not balanced. Edited January 30, 2016 by Petersheikah

[AutoPhox]

...

The only issue I have with the Strun Wraith being a current sortie reward is that it's the second time this gun has been re-released after its initial introduction, while certain other event weapons have yet to be rereleased at all, including some that are quite old.

This is my only issue.

But as per this topic, I think the reload mechanic is fun. (IMO "fun" and "top meta" are not synonymous) I use it for fun only; because in high lvl combat, when it takes an entire clip to knock down one unit, the sequential reload system fails.

But damn is it fun on the rest of the star chart!

Edited January 30, 2016 by AutoPhox

[sappinmahsentry]

I really don't think it would be OP if they just made it shell by shell with a quicker reload speed. Around the reload speed of what it first was.

[ThePredicament]

Armor stripper 100% pre-multishot is the ultimate scaler in armored heavy games, that's DIRECT EHP damage.

 

Also, sequential loading means you are ALWAYS ready (or at least, should be, assuming you're good). If you are wasting a whole entire 10 rounds to kill something, any other gun in the game will take just as long.

[JuanDeages]

Armor stripper 100% pre-multishot is the ultimate scaler in armored heavy games, that's DIRECT EHP damage.

 

Also, sequential loading means you are ALWAYS ready (or at least, should be, assuming you're good). If you are wasting a whole entire 10 rounds to kill something, any other gun in the game will take just as long.

Except every other gun in the game reloads faster. Five second reloads tank your sustained output...

[AutoPhox]

Except every other gun in the game reloads faster. Five second reloads tank your sustained output...

You are both correct...

In mid level, where it only take 1-3shots per kill, the sequential reload is faster( or as fast) than a clip to reload and move to the next target.

And in high level combat, the sequential reload requires a full reload, which is slower than a clip.

[ThePredicament]

Except every other gun in the game reloads faster. Five second reloads tank your sustained output...

If you would stop armchair theorizing for a second, you'd figure out that's not the case most of the time, which is all of starchart, 100+ level T1-T3 and like I said, if it's required to shoot 10 hard hitting shells and need to reload, magazine guns will have to reload twice to do the same damage.

 

Against a 105 Corrupted Heavy (one of the highest EHP enemies in game), barring red crit Soma Prime builds, most guns (even Boltor P full spec) will need to reload halfway while a proper build Strun W will do it in 10 shots or less.

[AgentSkye]

If you would stop armchair theorizing for a second, you'd figure out that's not the case most of the time, which is all of starchart, 100+ level T1-T3 and like I said, if it's required to shoot 10 hard hitting shells and need to reload, magazine guns will have to reload twice to do the same damage.

 

Against a 105 Corrupted Heavy (one of the highest EHP enemies in game), barring red crit Soma Prime builds, most guns (even Boltor P full spec) will need to reload halfway while a proper build Strun W will do it in 10 shots or less.

 

Not to mention that the total reload time has absolutely nothing to do with the reload mechanics. DE could set it so that each shot takes 200ms to reload, for a 2 second total reload time. They could also set any other gun to take 5 second to reload. "Long reload time" cannot be associated with the mechanics of the Strun, and "less-long reload time" cannot associated with the standard magazine reloads.

 

The actual mechanics are objectively superior because, while you can shoot until you run out, then reload all at once just like with a magazine, you also have the option of reloading constantly, since your reload takes less time depending on how much you have left in your gun. Fired 2 shots? 1 second reload. Compare to other guns, where reloading just because you want that nice round 200 or whatever takes just as long as if your magazine is completely empty.

 

DE made Strun take longer than most guns to reload because they realized (unlike half the player base apparently?) that the mechanics are more favorable. The longer total time is intended to counter that. Whether they overdid it slightly is up for debate, though. I think, with this buff, it would have been better to maintain the original reload time of 4 seconds by reducing the individual time to 400ms. Definitely long, but not way outside the range of reload times established by other guns.

 

I guess people complaining about the reload mechanics on the Strun aren't actually complaining about the reload mechanics on the Strun, but I wonder how many actually realize that they're not complaining about the reload mechanics.

Edited January 30, 2016 by AgentSkye

[JuanDeages]

If you would stop armchair theorizing for a second, you'd figure out that's not the case most of the time, which is all of starchart, 100+ level T1-T3 and like I said, if it's required to shoot 10 hard hitting shells and need to reload, magazine guns will have to reload twice to do the same damage.

 

Against a 105 Corrupted Heavy (one of the highest EHP enemies in game), barring red crit Soma Prime builds, most guns (even Boltor P full spec) will need to reload halfway while a proper build Strun W will do it in 10 shots or less.

The star chart doesn't matter to me in the slightest. You can use almost anything on the star chart and be fine.

This is a weapon that really begins to shine at mid-high level content. And honestly, the Boltor Prime and Soma Prime are no longer the go to top tier. We are past those days. They are still ok, but weapons like the Vaykor Hek and Tonkor so vastly outpace them now.

Also, the fact that you bring up that it deals with level 100 Corrupted Heavies well only furthers my point. The Strun Wraith would be top tier if only its reload time was better. I just want more variety up in this thin top tier of weapons at the end of the day.

[JuanDeages]

Not to mention that the total reload time has absolutely nothing to do with the reload mechanics. DE could set it so that each shot takes 200ms to reload, for a 2 second total reload time. They could also set any other gun to take 5 second to reload. "Long reload time" cannot be associated with the mechanics of the Strun, and "less-long reload time" cannot associated with the standard magazine reloads.

The actual mechanics are objectively superior because, while you can shoot until you run out, then reload all at once just like with a magazine, you also have the option of reloading constantly, since your reload takes less time depending on how much you have left in your gun. Fired 2 shots? 1 second reload. Compare to other guns, where reloading just because you want that nice round 200 or whatever takes just as long as if your magazine is completely empty.

DE made Strun take longer than most guns to reload because they realized (unlike half the player base apparently?) that the mechanics are more favorable. The longer total time is intended to counter that. Whether they overdid it slightly is up for debate, though. I think, with this buff, it would have been better to maintain the original reload time of 4 seconds by reducing the individual time to 400ms. Definitely long, but not way outside the range of reload times established by other guns.

I guess people complaining about the reload mechanics on the Strun aren't actually complaining about the reload mechanics on the Strun, but I wonder how many actually realize that they're not complaining about the reload mechanics.

You are mostly right. I personally think it is just a clunky mechanic right now. They could make the speed per shell anything they want, but it feels off. Not sure how to explain it, but in other shooters' individual shell loading just feels more fluid.

Imo, if people really like this mechanic, base a new gun around it. Everyone is happy.

Edited January 30, 2016 by JuanDeages

[ThePredicament]

The star chart doesn't matter to me in the slightest. You can use almost anything on the star chart and be fine.

This is a weapon that really begins to shine at mid-high level content. And honestly, the Boltor Prime and Soma Prime are no longer the go to top tier. We are past those days. They are still ok, but weapons like the Vaykor Hek and Tonkor so vastly outpace them now.

Also, the fact that you bring up that it deals with level 100 Corrupted Heavies well only furthers my point. The Strun Wraith would be top tier if only its reload time was better. I just want more variety up in this thin top tier of weapons at the end of the day.

Ah, you're one of those.

 

Rest my case.

[Datsher]

lacks status

You can get to 100% and you don't need to go over 100%

[JuanDeages]

Ah, you're one of those.

 

Rest my case.

 

Be honest, in its current state, is the star chart a good indicator of weapon strength?

 

The difference between the basic star chart and sorties/t4s is light years. You need the most insane gear to tear down the bullet sponges at higher levels. That's just where we are with this game right now.

Edited January 31, 2016 by JuanDeages

[ThePredicament]

Be honest, in its current state, is the star chart a good indicator of weapon strength?

 

The difference between the basic star chart and sorties/t4s is light years. You need the most insane gear to tear down the bullet sponges at higher levels. That's just where we are with this game right now.

You forgot that I mentioned high end levels of T1-3 (40+ mins/waves), you can't even cherry pick the starchart issue since that's 75% of the game's content. It's more than necessary for T1-T4 regular game types, then T4 high end, where ALL guns will start struggling, it actually scales with a regular, non-CP laden team.

 

It's not all about the numbers, bro. At levels where things need more than 10 Strun W shots to kill, status is much more important than damage, which it has PLENTY of (100% pre-multishot means ALL pellets proc). And if you're going to go further and dredge up an argument about its reload mechanic, you're simply looking at it at a "theory" based point of view. You do know you can stop at the first shell load, so even IF somehow the enemies are managing to stay alive for the ten shots, it takes half a second to load another for another shot, while they're most likely reeling from impact proc.

 

Against smaller mobs where it takes two or three shots to kill them in high levels, it would take a second and a half just to get back to full mag. The gun and its mechanic is perfect the way it is. I think you, and a whole lot of other people, only look at the stats and pass poor judgement because the superficial numbers don't cater to billions of damage, just like your Vayhek and Tonkor (which are GREATLY outdamaged by the Santigs).

 

Besides, what wraith weapon in the game has even come close to being endgame material? (Hint:none).

[taiiat]

And in high level combat, the sequential reload requires a full reload, which is slower than a clip.

i would like to see someone that believes Magazine Reloading is faster than Sequential innately show how this is actually the case.

this is a Video Game, where we have full control over everything, including how long it takes to complete a bulk Reload or a Sequential one.

 

if you and others like you don't want to understand that, sobeit, but also stop talking.

 

Whether they overdid it slightly is up for debate, though.

i'd very much consider it overkill. as someone that's 'always' been very fond of Strun Wraith (before Damage 2.0 is was... just bland and not that interesting, just Powercrepe for Shotguns, but since that turning point, a really great different option), it's nuts.

 

yes, 1.5sec for 8rds in bulk was too good to be true. if i was asked that, i would agree.

longer than 2.5sec for 8rds though, would be unnecessarily slow, regardless of Reloading Mechanic.

 

while i'd like to insist 250ms for the current 10 rds is fair for all parties (especially if Damage was backed to where it was before since Strun Wraith matched the Damage Output almost identically due to Crits and Accuracy, as aforementioned here), 300ms would be fine too. that would be a quite long total Reload time, but still very capable.

and the longest of all Shotguns as far as i'm concerned, because Sobek, like Supra previously (another personal favorite) - has a Reload that's just stupid with how long it is.

 

which can be absolved by dropping the Damage to reasonable levels like say, 190 total, but with a 1750-1800ms Reload Time for it's Drum Magazine.

Damage would still be competitve because it's the most accurate Shotgun in the game, tied with Tigris. Hek isn't mentioned here because Tigris and Sobek have 4 Pellets/Shot, the low Pellet count means they can put the entire shot into Weakpoints easier.

therefore Damage per Shot if you point at the Enemy would still be similar to the ones that don't hit everything on Weakpoints quite as well.

 

Imo, if people really like this mechanic, base a new gun around it. Everyone is happy.

there's many Weapons, though, that can benefit from it, both for practical use and thematically.

 

Grinlok/Marelok is just begging for Sequential Reloading.

Tigris maybe.

it would work for Hek and could look really cool.

it would work for Penta and could look really cool.

i'd still prefer a Magazine bump on Sybaris instead but you could reduce the Reload and make it Sequential too.

it would work for Tonkor and could look really cool.

not necessary for Vasto but could look really cool.

could totally work for Supra this is totally not a bad joke

 

number adjustment is the only point of contention.