Don't listen to the QQ DE, Bursas are great!

[Specific.Zod]

Wait the next patch. It will be fixed. Bursa spawm in Sabotage Indifinely is SUPER ridiculous. idk but i can hack alarm in grineer sabotage, but seem like coprus sortie sabotage is broken with new enemy bursa spawm whenever there is alarm triggering, and most people said that they hacked alarm or there is no alarm to be hacked, yet bursa keep spawming. It's game mechanic is broken. not Bursa fault.

[Kuestenjung]

11 hours ago, Endorphinz said:

Anyways, my thoughts are that with the majority of the people saying they have a problem with bursas, I think the majority rules, so to speak. Just because a handful of tough players don't find them bothersome, doesn't mean they shouldn't be fixed.

 

The majority is almost every time wrong. Just because most people have a problem with something doesn´t make it a problem at all.

 

[Genitive]

22 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

 

The majority is almost every time wrong. Just because most people have a problem with something doesn´t make it a problem at all.

 

That's not true. Just because you don't have a problem with something doesn't mean the problem does not exist or that we should ignore it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Inb4 Lock due to overflow of Salt.

once a Bursa is flanked, they're kinda screwed. their turning speed is slower than hell, and being Armoured, Corrosive damage is gonna whoop them, and most of us use Corrosive anyway, in one form or another. I would have thought that since they Drop Tempo Royale, players would be overjoyed at a chance to get one of the best Stances in the game, but Lotus Forbid you have to WORK for it! what an outrage!

people are just overreacting, give them a week and they'll have found a build that annihilates Bursas, and a technique to flanking them that works. then there will be less complaints. personally, I say bring em on, beating down giant robots is always a laugh.

 

[Hypernaut1]

I hate the "imagine new players" argument.  If you're not a new player, please stop worrying about them and trying to use "their experience" as a reason why something should be nerfed. Let DE handle that.

[Hypernaut1]

DE needs to buff other enemies back to their former glory in difficult missions in general.  

OP is right. 

Hopefully with new star chart, instead of just scaling enemies for difficult missions,  they bring the mini-bosses back to their "OP" state. 

[Misgenesis]

Of course they are.

3rd sortie defence, last wave Bursas took my squad 5+ minutes to kill(non stop firing in their backs), they were Mprimed as well.

I can take a Burston Prime to sorties and be able to deal with all of the Corpus units except Bursas, takes all of my 45/540 ammo and still doesnt kill one unit.

Yes, they sure are fine. I dont want to be restricted to specific playstyles to be able to deal with them.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Misgenesis

[izzatuw]

My only gripe is how you can get knockdowned out of nowhere and you can do absolutely nothing to get up. It's not even something you can avoid, it just happens out of nowhere and when it does, guess what happens? You get locked into being able to do nothing for a few seconds. I don't mind if say this were turned into a noticeable trap or mine but nope, some weird thing comes out you out of the hundred and stun locks you down.

[Kothophed]

Somehow they decided that the only thing that ignores their knockdown is hysteria.  yeah.  That needed random buffing.  

[CaterHowlett16]

13 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

For a long time people complained about Warframe being too easy, with the only real difficulty coming from instagib bullet sponges via limitless scaling. As we all know, that type of difficulty isn't really a true challenge, hence it's the term 'Artificial Difficulty'. Then DE started releasing some enemies that changed that; Ancients, Nullifiers, Manics, Combas, etc. all enemies that rely more on their abilities to change the battlefield rather than blunt force. Granted, many of them still have issues and are far from perfect, but it showed that DE had the right idea and wanted to introduce challenge beyond simple scaling. Now Bursas have left their 'event only' status behind and joined the regular crew. That was a very good move by DE.

Bursas add the right kind of difficulty. They aren't super sponges that have insane damage resistances nor do they rely on incredible amounts damage to be dangerous (aside from the high level ones but that is a scaling issue with every enemy), what they do have is abilities that lock the player down via ability loss or CC, and a frontal shield that makes the player have to use some simple tactics rather than bullet spam to defeat them. They are a legitimate threat. And just because they are a threat, rather than cannon fodder, doesn't mean that they are OP or broken.

Bursas force the player to use skill and tactics to win, something that is not usually demanded from Warframe players. The result is an unbelievable amount of tears and salt. When presented with actual difficulty rather than the usual artificial kind, players whine, cry, and give up. Too bad. Many of us have been wanting this for a long time. Actually challenging enemies regardless of level that have a real chance to beat the player. Warframe needs this kind of difficulty, it needs to have some challenge that isn't simply "moar HP" and "moar damage". Bursas should absolutely stay and the players that are complaining about them need to grow a pair and adapt.

That said, Bursas do need to have their spawning looked at. It tends to be feast or famine with them and I cannot imagine that is how it is supposed to be working. Also, they like to break exterminate type missions by continuously adding to the counter. But I'm talking about the Bursas themselves and not their currently wonky spawn mechanics.

Edited February 28, 2016 by CaterHowlett16

[TotallyLagging]

Yeah, Bursas are pretty neat! 

 

Except when they spawn infinitely, and end up filling what starts as a 60-enemy exterminate mission to a ridiculous 60-enemy and 40 @(*()$ Bursas exterminate mission.

And those times when Isolator Bursas knocks you down through your knockdown immunity

And those times when a high level Dover Bursa just nukes your entire team to death on a narrow hallway

And those times when knockdown bugs out and leaves you laying on the floor unable to do anything for more than 10 seconds

 

Really, my only problem with Bursas is that they're buggy as hell, some of the bugs I've seen from False Profit is still there. That, and, enemy scaling is still sh*t;, so these things become quite ridiculous after a while.

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by TotallyLagging

[Littlerift]

I wouldn't mind Bursas so much if A) they didn't spawn at such a ridiculous rate, B) their numbers were capped, especially on Venus, and C) if they weren't so goddamned buggy and poorly implemented. Being hit with a 500% knockdown by an attack that doesn't look any more threatening than that of a Shockwave MOA is really dumb, and this is symptomatic of Bursas in general: they give very little player feedback. It's all very well saying 'but you just flank them and fill them full of rounds from your Soma Prime/Rakta Cernos/Vaykor Hek!' but that doesn't solve the fact that it's very possible to get a level 20 Bursa spawn on a player's first mission on Venus. Such a player wouldn't even know that setting the alarms off is bad, as before this they've only ever fought Grineer where the alarm barely matters. They have no clue how to navigate the tileset properly and easily, and suddenly they're thrown up against an opponent that can stunlock them in tandem with a Shockwave MOA or two and can't be hurt (and will sometimes bug out and be able to spin instantly to face you regardless of type of Bursa or whether it's mid-animation). I can't imagine such an experience is very satisfying when all you've got is a Rank 4 Volt and a set of Mk-1 weapons. 

Limit the Bursas to Jupiter+ and lower the 500% knockdown (yup, my space ninja is 5x more stunned if the robot doing the stamping has car doors tied to its legs), in addition to making the shields more obvious (replace them with bright blue energy shields) and they would be fine. I would also like the different types of Bursas to be more unique too, but that's a personal preference.

Edit: Also, can we stop with the ludicrous 'Bursas take skill and tactics to defeat' argument? What skill or tactics is there in jumping to avoid the shockwave and shooting it in the backside? Sure, they're scary when their scaling goes out of whack, but that power is entirely down to WF's broken scaling and has nothing to do with the mob's design.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Attley

[Crescendium]

13 hours ago, Faulcun said:

Sorry bro, nobody in my clan really has issues with sorties. Sorry you are having so much trouble.

Edit: in no way am I trying to be an &#!. But you are approaching the mission trying to stay invisible with OP tonkors. I run my missions mostly either with a nova, or volt, or whatever I feel like bringing out of the closet for fun. I usually only bring telos akboltos for my weapon.

As you can see, there is a huge difference in the way we approach these missions. I cant tell you how to do something, or the "easy trick" to insta-win sorties, because there arent any. But I would start with looking at your approach.

We brought 2 Lokis and 2 Tonkors (one time 1 Tonkor and 1 Boltor) simply because we didn't know how to handle the problem anymore. As I said: They would spawn infinitely and faster than we could kill them, so bringing gear that allows us to kill them as fast as possible seemed like a good idea. Also, bringing Lokis allowed us to sneak to the reactor. We tried with non invisible frames but that was just a mess. Also, we use to play as a duo as often as possible, so I also don't care about bringing a full squad, as with randoms it won't be better anyways. So, trying with a more "funwise" approach was simply not possible for us. Just to answer and clarify things.

[Coaa]

I completely agree with both points, I love bursa's and the challenge they add. Not just point and click until dead, you have to outmaneuver them and outsmart it. But I agree the spawning of them is really bad.

The other day on corpus sortie 2, I soloed it because it was an exterminate. I got right to the end, no cameras saw me and had the 263/265 enemies dead. Then lotus spawns up saying alarms triggered, a bursa coming. I thought it odd but whatever i'll kill it. I noticed when the bursa came, so didn't more enemies, now I was at 263/279. Killed everything, worked on the bursa and when it dropped I went to hack it. Lotus popped up again, same message. This kept happening for almost 45 minutes...by the time it stopped "bugging" out I was up to 513/513 enemies. Now remember...it started at 265 needed to kill....it just kept going and going until it just decided to stop. This isn't correct, this needs fixing.

[Drasiel]

15 hours ago, Silvus-Sol said:

<snip>

Bursas add the right kind of difficulty. They aren't super sponges that have insane damage resistances nor do they rely on incredible amounts damage to be dangerous (aside from the high level ones but that is a scaling issue with every enemy), what they do have is abilities that lock the player down via ability loss or CC, and a frontal shield that makes the player have to use some simple tactics rather than bullet spam to defeat them. They are a legitimate threat. And just because they are a threat, rather than cannon fodder, doesn't mean that they are OP or broken.

Bursas force the player to use skill and tactics to win, something that is not usually demanded from Warframe players. The result is an unbelievable amount of tears and salt. When presented with actual difficulty rather than the usual artificial kind, players whine, cry, and give up. Too bad. Many of us have been wanting this for a long time. Actually challenging enemies regardless of level that have a real chance to beat the player. Warframe needs this kind of difficulty, it needs to have some challenge that isn't simply "moar HP" and "moar damage". Bursas should absolutely stay and the players that are complaining about them need to grow a pair and adapt.

That said, Bursas do need to have their spawning looked at. It tends to be feast or famine with them and I cannot imagine that is how it is supposed to be working. Also, they like to break exterminate type missions by continuously adding to the counter. But I'm talking about the Bursas themselves and not their currently wonky spawn mechanics.

Bursa's aren't super sponges....until level 40 where you better have your guns geared to taking down robots or you are going to end up with the bursa playing "wack-a-tenno"

The Bursa who has the rockets has fairly high attack speed and well above average damage, plus a quite a wide radius of explosion. 

Every single bursa can knock you down, if you have two them attacking you at once they can chain knockdowns on you even with handspring.

One of the bursa's have an undestroyable "slow tether" attack that can only be avoided with distance between you and the lobbed grenade, which is a nightmare in the smaller tiles.

They are vulnerable from behind, but they turn on a dime so unless you can slow them down it's a fun game of ring around the rosie.

There is a very big divide between the challenge rating of these solo and the challenge rating between groups, more than any other creature barring Vay Hecks boss fight (mostly because of the cap to damage in his first form).

Are bursa's an interesting unit that should stay in the game? Yes. Do Bursa's need a seriously look at for their spawn rates, spiky difficulty curve, and over abundance of slows, power dampening, knockdowns, high damage, fast movement, and attack speed? Yes.

If you want a more eloquent explanation of why bursas are kind of a POS Volkovyi has a thread up discussing it.

 

 

[Madrox8]

the problem atm with bursas for me is that more then 1 can spawn on the field at a time and that they can spawn on low teir planets, if they are only locked to high teir planets / sorties with only 1 being on the field at any given time they would be 100% fine

 

as it stands right now lower skilled players try to go head on into it or rely on attempting at a cheese build to brute their way through it, it then fails and consider it op without changing their style of play to adapt

OR its a player who likes to solo and bursas really are anti solo players due to the need to get behind them to do the extra damage / avoid the 95% damage reduction from the front shields and thus makes them much more difficult to deal with then they actually are

 

I personally have no issues I have a style to fight them with mag + sancti tigris where I cast bullet atractor on them, jump over on to and take 1 shot while within the bubble and 1 hit them, I then land and use a cypher for the the quick hack and move on

[noname_emanon]

I would like corrupted bursa. Void is too easy.

[Faulcun]

11 minutes ago, Madrox8 said:

the problem atm with bursas for me is that more then 1 can spawn on the field at a time and that they can spawn on low teir planets, if they are only locked to high teir planets / sorties with only 1 being on the field at any given time they would be 100% fine

 

as it stands right now lower skilled players try to go head on into it or rely on attempting at a cheese build to brute their way through it, it then fails and consider it op without changing their style of play to adapt

OR its a player who likes to solo and bursas really are anti solo players due to the need to get behind them to do the extra damage / avoid the 95% damage reduction from the front shields and thus makes them much more difficult to deal with then they actually are

 

I personally have no issues I have a style to fight them with mag + sancti tigris where I cast bullet atractor on them, jump over on to and take 1 shot while within the bubble and 1 hit them, I then land and use a cypher for the the quick hack and move on

yes, this is a really good point too..... Lets not forget these are sorties we are talking about here. These are not the every day cheese-it missions. The sorties are meant to be higher level combat, or what could be considered end game content.

As Drasiel mentioned, above level 40, the SHTF factor scales upwards exponentially. These missions are NOT meant to be easy. Should bursas be looked at? Sure, maybe. Makes no difference to me. But i think that a LOT of the random players I come across in public sorties, probably shouldnt even be bothering with them yet. And im not trying to make this into a gitgood post, but we're talking about enemies that run lvl 60-110. I cant emphasize enough that these missions are not supposed to be a cake walk.

[Kuestenjung]

3 hours ago, Genitive said:

That's not true. Just because you don't have a problem with something doesn't mean the problem does not exist or that we should ignore it.

Yes it is true cause I wasn´t reffering to Bursas or something else People are complaining about.

You were saying they are bad because the majority says so and that´s just false.

[Madrox8]

13 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

yes, this is a really good point too..... Lets not forget these are sorties we are talking about here. These are not the every day cheese-it missions. The sorties are meant to be higher level combat, or what could be considered end game content.

As Drasiel mentioned, above level 40, the SHTF factor scales upwards exponentially. These missions are NOT meant to be easy. Should bursas be looked at? Sure, maybe. Makes no difference to me. But i think that a LOT of the random players I come across in public sorties, probably shouldnt even be bothering with them yet. And im not trying to make this into a gitgood post, but we're talking about enemies that run lvl 60-110. I cant emphasize enough that these missions are not supposed to be a cake walk.

agreed, hence my suggestion with 1 bursa at a time due to that scaling, its been said hundreds of times that a decent amount of players cant kill bursas before more spawn in and that's where the frustration comes, so with that change then its an indirect nerf to bursa so they keep their difficulty but its not overwhelming

[makaloff95]

bursas are fine as a unit itself, however there is some slight problems with them right now:

1: they spawn in masses, this is a unit that souldnt spawn so often but still occur from time to time

2:combined with problem 1 the next problem is the CC they bring out along with problem 1s

3: with problem 1 and 2 they are wery hard to hack unless you have a nova on your team

4:Ridicoulus scaling issue, they scale very very fast to the point of ridicoulusness.

I believe the reason for the hate of bursas is thanks to False Profit event, trying to handle a level 120 Bursa is.....painfull to say the least (not to mention the CC spam)

[Judgebanks]

Implemented poorly, a single unit should not have the ability to break the scripting for a mission in any scenario.

[LordCasimiro]

I think the overall problem with Bursa is their spawn things.

Newer players won't know how to deal with them and even for advanced players, it seems a bit bugged. I mean, they once came when there were no alarms to me and there was another time there came two at the same time

[KnightCole]

Yeah, GL with an Isolator Bursa....

They: Knock down, drag you, nullify, drain energy, throw nully bubbles, AOE damage, and turn so fast you cant get behind them. 

How the S#&amp;&#036; do you get to the back of a bursa when it just instantly turns around towards you?  Rhino stomp?  Naw, that throws the mob all helterskelter in a random manner, so it takes time to figure out where the back went, by which point the stomp is over.  THen, that is if you even have energy, the thing rains energy, so the only thing you have to work with is your gun, which you cant get behind it because it instantly turns around and drags you or knocks you down.

Its Isolator bursas taht are the most bullS#&amp;&#036;.

[carnaga]

What is the funniest thing: I see people writing how easy they are making fun of other people who sometimes struggle with them. I don't find this cool. I consider myself pretty good bursa killer cause I don't need CC (crowd control) neither über bursa frames neither instakill weapons to get a high level bursa down (valkyr hysteria, Rhino - Iron skin, Loki - invisible, Ash - Blade storm, Frost - Freeze & Avalanche, Mag - pull & shield polarize, Ember - accelerant stun, Ivara - sleep, Nekros - Terrify, Mirage - Blind, Excal  and so on).

Toying a lvl 64 drover bursa with coolant leak:
http://i.imgur.com/dl8QJ6s.gifv

I've been farming yellow pigments from ospreys and I can say that Bursas are easy to deal without CC -- with specific frames and with CC they are a joke. Mostly I bump into a Drover Bursa (blue) -- they seem to be quite common encounter specially during Tier3 extermination mission. But I can also see clearly that they have problems. The quality of the bursa behavior (or AI?) varies a-lot over the missions.