Now that there's (MORE!) timetraveling, can we travel back in time and kill "Lotus"? Specters of Rails Updated

[Littlerift]

Just now, ChronoEclipse said:

@Drasiel @Neofaucheur @Attley

How do you explain Limbo and Mirage’s deaths in the backstories to their quests? It’s clear from a gameplay and possibly lore standpoint that Tenno can just jumpstart any 'frame they die in 4 times, and that even if they can’t jumpstart the 'frame enough times to succeed, they can just try again.

Limbo, I suppose you could make an argument for… if he encountered something mind-shattering, it’s possible that his Operator just died of shock or whatever.

I don’t see how Lotus would be affected by Mirage’s “death” so much if recovery was as simple as “bruh, just use a revive.”

 

I know this is off-topic, but it’s silly to pretend that the lore of Warframe has always been consistent.

I don't understand the issue. Mirage, for example, was obliterated by the Sentients after she ran out of energy wasting entire fleets of the robotic bar...tenders. There was nothing to revive, in fact Lotus even states that she tries to revive the Warframe but is too far away (either in space or time). Mirage wasn't just killed in the sense that she was shot full of holes, the Warframe was completely disintegrated. The Mirage we have today is a facsimile built from the memories the Lotus uncovered.

And of course the lore is not always consistent, but it is fairly consistent when it comes to the history of the Old War. 

[Misgenesis]

Switching dimensions, not time traveling.

[Marksman]

2 minutes ago, XtheMATTx said:

Someday I will learn that people here on the forums are blind to facts and reason.

 

Someday.

 

Who knows perhaps you'll be right and there will be timetravel, I just think it would bring a whole bunch of problematic questions as to how it would work. 

We'll just have to wait until the update.

[Marksman]

2 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Switching dimensions, not time traveling.

Yeah it kinda reminds me of the old legacy of kain games where you'd play as raziel and the world would shift when you switched dimensions o_O

[--Q--uaint]

13 minutes ago, Attley said:

fleets of the robotic bar…tenders

+1

13 minutes ago, Attley said:

I don’t understand the issue. Mirage, for example, was obliterated by the Sentients after she ran out of energy wasting entire fleets of the robotic bar…tenders. There was nothing to revive, in fact Lotus even states that she tries to revive the Warframe but is too far away (either in spaaaaaace or time). Mirage wasn’t just killed in the sense that she was shot full of holes, the Warframe was completely disintegrated. The Mirage we have today is a facsimile built from the memories the Lotus uncovered.

And of course the lore is not always consistent, but it is fairly consistent when it comes to the history of the Old War. 

Even if Lotus was “unable to revive” the warframe, it seems like failing missions by running out of revives isn’t actually a large problem for a Tenno. I feel like it would be pretty unreasonable for Lotus to get all freaked out about losing one 'frame.

[vrdwrst]

22 minutes ago, Attley said:

I don't understand the issue. Mirage, for example, was obliterated by the Sentients after she ran out of energy wasting entire fleets of the robotic bar...tenders. There was nothing to revive, in fact Lotus even states that she tries to revive the Warframe but is too far away (either in space or time). Mirage wasn't just killed in the sense that she was shot full of holes, the Warframe was completely disintegrated. The Mirage we have today is a facsimile built from the memories the Lotus uncovered.

And of course the lore is not always consistent, but it is fairly consistent when it comes to the history of the Old War. 

Aditionally, the second dream showed that Warframes have no permanence compared to the true Tenno. If one Mirage is destroyed, who cares? There's dozens more in production.

[-VarasSaysHi-]

Still would rather work with darvo or stalker rather then lotus, she is im MY opinion she is annoying and just keeps to many secrets from us. not saying stalker or darvo would be any better but i can say atleast stalker gets off his butt every day to actually do something

 

[Littlerift]

3 minutes ago, Jame_Hsu.s_Bodyguard said:

Still would rather work with darvo or stalker rather then lotus, she is im MY opinion she is annoying and just keeps to many secrets from us. not saying stalker or darvo would be any better but i can say atleast stalker gets off his butt every day to actually do something

 

The Lotus is actually intelligent, though. Darvo is unscrupulous and seems to lack any agency whatsoever, and the Stalker is a grungy emo kid who's upset that mummy didn't like his favourite racist, murderous, fascist rock band (admittedly mummy did slaughter the entire band due to her distaste, but alas).

[Evanescent]

Ya ever heard of a Time Paradox?

[CaterHowlett16]

Am I the only one who's concerned about the collateral damage all these reckless tenno would cause to the timeline? Sure you kill Lotus when she was a baby, but in the process, could also very well change the future to the point where you get something far worse.   

Edited March 1, 2016 by CaterHowlett16

[Stratego89]

It's not time travel... it's reality bubbles...

[motorfirebox]

53 minutes ago, ChronoEclipse said:

@Drasiel @Neofaucheur @Attley

How do you explain Limbo and Mirage’s deaths in the backstories to their quests? It’s clear from a gameplay and possibly lore standpoint that Tenno can just jumpstart any 'frame they die in 4 times, and that even if they can’t jumpstart the 'frame enough times to succeed, they can just try again.

Limbo, I suppose you could make an argument for… if he encountered something mind-shattering, it’s possible that his Operator just died of shock or whatever.

I don’t see how Lotus would be affected by Mirage’s “death” so much if recovery was as simple as “bruh, just use a revive.”

 

I know this is off-topic, but it’s silly to pretend that the lore of Warframe has always been consistent.

I don't think it's going to turn out to be an inconsistency. The Rhino Prime codex entry clearly (in retrospect) indicates that the Tenno are separate from the Warframes, and Rhino Prime came out before Mirage and Limbo did. The fact is, while we've learned quite a bit about the Tenno, we know basically nothing about the Warframes. It seems highly probable to me that we're eventually going to learn some information that clarifies how Mirage and Limbo could "die" even though Warframes as we currently understand them are controlled remotely.

[(XBOX)SaintlySilver88]

i need to travel back in time and not sell the ether daggers bp that i thought were dual ethers which i already had 

[Mak_Gohae]

3 hours ago, unknow99 said:

 

Hey Mak! Can we use your time machine for Ordis too?

If we kill "Lotus" that means that she wont erase important parts of Ordis and he wont be the mess that he is now.

So killing "Lotus" bring lots of benefits.

3 hours ago, Kaisty said:

Actually we would save our original adoptive mother from execution, slaughter the Orokin Elite, take their place, then Kill Natah and her family while making sure to wipe out the Sentients. Then we can setup reforms that make all factions equal and hopefully stop the issues we have in the current setup.

Or we do all of that, try to play nice with the Sentients and if they still want a war.....wipe them out while making sure Natah and her family don't leave the void alive.

All in all I am for it so long as we get to shank Natah. Extra points if I can leave her bleeding out with a tape loop of her telling me things I already know.

"Stay away from the fire. There is ice here. Reinforcements are coming. Reinforcements are coming. Heads up, It's the Grineer. etc.etc.etc"

(Wouldn't have such a die hard desire to end Natah's life if we were given a frakin' MUTE Option for her! If we can mute Ordis and our Operator, we should be able to shut her up.)

Oh, yes! It would be interesting if we save Margoulis and we have her as our controller.

3 hours ago, DaftMeat said:

Only if I can then travel back in time and kill you before you kill Lotus.

Now that i know what you are going to do i will use this information to stop this.

But i will not say what i will do.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, ChronoEclipse said:

@Drasiel @Neofaucheur @Attley

How do you explain Limbo and Mirage’s deaths in the backstories to their quests? It’s clear from a gameplay and possibly lore standpoint that Tenno can just jumpstart any 'frame they die in 4 times, and that even if they can’t jumpstart the 'frame enough times to succeed, they can just try again.

Limbo, I suppose you could make an argument for… if he encountered something mind-shattering, it’s possible that his Operator just died of shock or whatever.

I don’t see how Lotus would be affected by Mirage’s “death” so much if recovery was as simple as “bruh, just use a revive.”

 

I know this is off-topic, but it’s silly to pretend that the lore of Warframe has always been consistent.

Because it's also very clear that the warframes themselves are alive and potentially sentient creatures. 

first basics: we need air to breath and atmosphere to function fully. We know this from broken windows, survivals, sharkwing and archwing.

Second lore that implies to me we are aware/sentient: They say the stalker went mad after he found out "what he really was" in the second dream, which begs the question of where is his operator? Does he still have one? It also raises the question of when did he find this out, and why does he not know where the other operators are, why does he kill the warframes when he knows of the tenno operators. 

The infested also speak of us as being of their flesh. They clearly don't mean the operators so they must mean the warframes. Even the infested "flesh" that covers the ships has some sort of awareness (ie hives and their tumour nodes and summoning defenders when attacked) aside from dead tissue infested tissue shows both awareness and bizarre powers like the warframes.

Then there is the final moment in the second dream quest when our warframe acts alone. This single action also opens the possibility that stalker doesn't have an operator anymore. If we can act on our own to the extent of saving "ourselves" then with the amount of time stalker has been alive for it's entirely possibly he is only the warframe with no operator. 

Basically I feel that WE are the warframes. While the operator is it's own entity.

[Kaisty]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

Ya ever heard of a Time Paradox?

 Now that I think about it, I would really love to see how much damage the Tenno could do to the timeline by incorporating certain elements in varying ways in the hope of altering the present for our benefit. If we fail at it, then how much damage would be done if we go full on "Change everything! Leave nothing the same!"?

Examples:

- Sneak a ton of Bursa back into Corpus areas and let them loose to knock down everyone. Either the Corpus elite bans the production in the present so they never exist or they think the Bursa's were way too awesome and then decide to try and emulate the robots and create them anyway.

- See what would happen if we got Tyl Regor into music instead of science? If so, how much would that change Grineer history if they used his smooth voice for the Propaganda bots and radio messages.

- Actually go back and completely wipe out the Sentients while saving fellow tenno that would have fallen to them. Would it change history or would there be bigger issues later?

- Possibly stab Stalker and terminate him to see if he and his Acolytes would still exist in the present.

- Save original space mom (OSM) by hiding a Pre-patched Trinity in the execution chamber and cast blessing while other Tenno work to sneak her out. How much of a problem would Natah have if the real adopted mother was to resurface? Also, would she be more or less talkative than Natah?

 

Depending on how the universe would function, either we would be preforming Time Paradoxes or fulfilling what is needed in the timeline. Did we actually see OSM die or were we told that she was killed off? If we didn't see her die, then we could be fulfilling it because the Orokin could always lie and say she died even though she could have been saved. Likewise, if Tenno of the present go back to the past and actually kill the Sentients before they can pull a possum, then Shadow Stalker will never exist in the first place.

[phasormaster]

15 minutes ago, Kaisty said:

 Now that I think about it, I would really love to see how much damage the Tenno could do to the timeline by incorporating certain elements in varying ways in the hope of altering the present for our benefit. If we fail at it, then how much damage would be done if we go full on "Change everything! Leave nothing the same!"?

Examples:

- Sneak a ton of Bursa back into Corpus areas and let them loose to knock down everyone. Either the Corpus elite bans the production in the present so they never exist or they think the Bursa's were way too awesome and then decide to try and emulate the robots and create them anyway.

- See what would happen if we got Tyl Regor into music instead of science? If so, how much would that change Grineer history if they used his smooth voice for the Propaganda bots and radio messages.

- Actually go back and completely wipe out the Sentients while saving fellow tenno that would have fallen to them. Would it change history or would there be bigger issues later?

- Possibly stab Stalker and terminate him to see if he and his Acolytes would still exist in the present.

- Save original space mom (OSM) by hiding a Pre-patched Trinity in the execution chamber and cast blessing while other Tenno work to sneak her out. How much of a problem would Natah have if the real adopted mother was to resurface? Also, would she be more or less talkative than Natah?

 

Depending on how the universe would function, either we would be preforming Time Paradoxes or fulfilling what is needed in the timeline. Did we actually see OSM die or were we told that she was killed off? If we didn't see her die, then we could be fulfilling it because the Orokin could always lie and say she died even though she could have been saved. Likewise, if Tenno of the present go back to the past and actually kill the Sentients before they can pull a possum, then Shadow Stalker will never exist in the first place.

Saving Margulis (Space Mom Prime) wouldn't necessarily be exclusive with not killing Natah/Lotus. Even if there is no going back in time, imagine if one of the reality bubbles trapped in time contains the her and we get to rescue her with the option that she replace the Lotus.

[Eldnacpeek]

9 hours ago, Kaisty said:

All in all I am for it so long as we get to shank Natah. Extra points if I can leave her bleeding out with a tape loop of her telling me things I already know.

 

That is excessively and unnecessarily dark.

Edited March 1, 2016 by LazerSkink

[ravend]

7 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

So the tenno end up knowing fully about themselves? We can also get rid or all Sentients in the SS so they dont mess around ever again.

And maybe rule as the new Orokin leaders?

We can also change it so the tenno are inside the frames instead of sitting in some gaming chairs drinking Void Dew and eating Orokitos?

So, your upset someone helping you out for free. the catch is that she doesnt share everything? How do you operate in the real world then? unless your a CEO or something similar your going to be on the short end of the info, you know need to know. As for the whole time travel thing, its the cheap way out and very really done right. Not to mention the whole paradox thing. even if we werent kill and put in storage then we would be vor's puppets. or did you forget that intro mission with the device stuck to our leg

[BornWithTeeth]

8 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Because it's also very clear that the warframes themselves are alive and potentially sentient creatures. 

 

Hidden Content

 

Basically I feel that WE are the warframes. While the operator is it's own entity.

Hmmm. I can see that a fair few players identify more with the arsenal of Warframes than with the Operator, but I really don't agree that it should be the default conclusion. We control the Operator. The only real RPG-styled conversation we ever have is with the Lotus, and we are the Operator during it, not the Warframe.

 

An analogy I've used before....doing the Second Dream quest and then saying that the Operator isn't the player character is like watching The Matrix and insisting that Neo (whiled jacked in) and Neo (while plugged out) are literally two different, separate characters who just happen to be played by the same actor.

[Zarozian]

12 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

This is not time travelling.

 

The following would happen if we had a time machine:

What if we try to go to the future?

[BornWithTeeth]

2 hours ago, Zarozian said:

What if we try to go to the future?

Time travelling to the future is super easy. You're doing it right now, at a rate of one second per second. The trick is finding a way to survive this speed of travel in order to reach your destination. In order to do this, you'll need one of two things:

 

1. A vehicle which can approach lightspeed to take advantage of relativistic time-dilation effects.

2. A refrigerator.

Edited March 1, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[(PSN)gamerpie12]

14 hours ago, Noamuth said:

I read about Time Travel and I think of a mad man and a little blue box.

 

Timey whimey and all that.

 

But, sounds neat. I dunno about killing Lotus though.  Maybe turn her into a double agent or something and keep her on our side, she is pretty powerful after all. 

Besides you dont want to get stuck in that big ball of wibbely-wobbely timey-wimmy stuff right?

 

But yeah OP, you seem to have taken the concept of changing rooms and maybe added on a bit too many hopes...  Even if it was time travel it is only "void" related time travel and only affects objects sent there, and only small rooms at that.  Last I checked most of the solar system hasn't been to the void.

[unknow99]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Time travelling to the future is super easy. You're doing it right now, at a rate of one second per second. The trick is finding a way to survive this speed of travel in order to reach your destination. In order to do this, you'll need one of two things:

 

1. A vehicle which can approach lightspeed to take advantage of relativistic time-dilation effects.

2. A refrigerator.

Nice! I already got one of the 2 requirements!

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, unknow99 said:

Nice! I already got one of the 2 requirements!

Dude, you can't just admit to owning a super high tech spaceship on the internet! The NSA will black bag your rear end by the end of the day.