Do You want Warframe's tone to be darker?

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

I would disagree with the people who think this game used to be "darker" in the early days of Warframe. Warframe in the early days was a lot more mysterious than darker, as we were dropped into this alien world without a clue of what is going on. "Dark" isn't a word that should describe Warframe at all, even in the early days. Hek, we had Grineer talking about their mothers, Vor being in what seems to be a power ranger suit, and particle effects everywhere. 

No, Warframe shouldn't be more darker or gorier or whatever. This game should be more mysterious, always hinting at something bigger. The infested liset and hidden messages were a great start.

[(PSN)Romulus93]

I want more substance. Warframe was strange, cool, and unique when I first played. Now it's the atmosphere in the game is so much less than what it used to be. It's like, it became less mystic and more out open and carefree as if it's comedy.

[(XBOX)Big Wessss]

40 minutes ago, Cyndocrit said:

Dead Space dark for infested or gritty kind of dark for warframe?

 

That would be raw lol

[.Fire_Fly.]

I was around in update 6-7 and thats what i fell in love with, i still love the game but it has a darker richer feel to it

[Dreddeth]

Warframe is a lot like Warhammer 40K, if Warhammer 40K were a Saturday morning cartoon.

Personally I like it that way, and aside from that, our very own edge-lord the Stalker has evolved into an edgy-christ Shadow Stalker and gained half a dozen disciples in the form of lesser edge-lords. This isn't even going into our Vietnam Veteran Valkyr, Frankenstein's Alad V's monster Zanuka, and how the Grineer are all basically Space Nazis, and on top of it all there's still the Infestation and Sentients, which are basically man-made Lovecraftian horrors. Come to think of it, the Warframes are pretty horrifying themselves, being unnatural meat-puppets piloted by (evidently) immortal child soldiers.

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only grind.

[FoxyKabam]

2 minutes ago, Dreddeth said:

In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only grind.

just got chills reading that

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

I'd be happy if the world felt more alive in general. It just feels off if I can be on a ship with a small army or horde of infested nearby, yet it be fairly quiet.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

1 hour ago, R34LM said:

It doesn't help that the main characters, the Warframes, show no emotions and therefore are unrelatable; they make for terrible heroes in a story, honestly. You can kind of get away with the Operators, but they act as a secondary character almost.

Here's the thing though. The Tenno and Warframes are NOT heroes. We don't "save colonies and kill 'bad guys'" from the goodness of our hearts. We slaughter them left and right to uphold balance in the system between the 3 dominant factions (Corpus, Grineer, Infested).

Without one of these 3 factions (minus infested who nobody likes except Alad the Psychotic "Doctor"), balance sways too far one way and bad/worse things happen than currently.

We need Infested to keep the Corpus and Grineer in check, Grineer to keep the Corpus and Infested in check, and Corpus to keep the Grineer and Infested in check. See how the triangle of balance sways there?

And through the story-based guidelines, there aren't that many Tenno to constitute a "faction", hence why we assault ships and bases in sabotages and pre-emptive strikes rather than an all-out war against any of them. Story-wise, there is only one of each warframe (and I'm not exactly sure if Valkyr, Limbo, Mirage, Chroma, Mesa, or Atlas are around due to their original stories being A) Death by Psycho Scientist B) Death by Rift Walk C) Death by Sentients D) Not controlled by Tenno E) Mercy killing by Tenno due to Psycho Scientist tampering F) Death by Jordas events [supposedly].)

We do NOT have the numbers to assault the Corpus and their armies of money grubbing mercenaries with anti-warframe tech, the Grineer and their endless supply of clones (hell, a single manic can eff up an entire squad of Tenno alone if they aren't prepared) including Regor's research to repair the genetic damage they've suffered through countless imprints, and DEFINITELY not the Infested and the viral adaptation to corrupt machinery and weapons as well as biological mass.

Then don't forget Hunhow making a return with the Sentients who we absolutely CANNOT defeat alone (remember Mirage died fighting Sentients despite Lotus' orders to evacuate) and would need the combined efforts of either the Corpus, Grineer, or both in order to eradicate the issue (like the Infested) before we go back to each others' throats (or pockets with the Corpus).

[R34LM]

Just now, (PS4)Foxkid_8 said:

Here's the thing though. The Tenno and Warframes are NOT heroes. We don't "save colonies and kill 'bad guys'" from the goodness of our hearts. We slaughter them left and right to uphold balance in the system between the 3 dominant factions (Corpus, Grineer, Infested).

Without one of these 3 factions (minus infested who nobody likes except Alad the Psychotic "Doctor"), balance sways too far one way and bad/worse things happen than currently.

We need Infested to keep the Corpus and Grineer in check, Grineer to keep the Corpus and Infested in check, and Corpus to keep the Grineer and Infested in check. See how the triangle of balance sways there?

And through the story-based guidelines, there aren't that many Tenno to constitute a "faction", hence why we assault ships and bases in sabotages and pre-emptive strikes rather than an all-out war against any of them. Story-wise, there is only one of each warframe (and I'm not exactly sure if Valkyr, Limbo, Mirage, Chroma, Mesa, or Atlas are around due to their original stories being A) Death by Psycho Scientist B) Death by Rift Walk C) Death by Sentients D) Not controlled by Tenno E) Mercy killing by Tenno due to Psycho Scientist tampering F) Death by Jordas events [supposedly].)

We do NOT have the numbers to assault the Corpus and their armies of money grubbing mercenaries with anti-warframe tech, the Grineer and their endless supply of clones (hell, a single manic can eff up an entire squad of Tenno alone if they aren't prepared) including Regor's research to repair the genetic damage they've suffered through countless imprints, and DEFINITELY not the Infested and the viral adaptation to corrupt machinery and weapons as well as biological mass.

Then don't forget Hunhow making a return with the Sentients who we absolutely CANNOT defeat alone (remember Mirage died fighting Sentients despite Lotus' orders to evacuate) and would need the combined efforts of either the Corpus, Grineer, or both in order to eradicate the issue (like the Infested) before we go back to each others' throats (or pockets with the Corpus).

All of this just furthers my point: that the Tenno and Warframes are completely unrelatable and, in some cases, not likeable for the cold hearted mercenary attitude.

[-Refractor-]

42 minutes ago, Mr.ToastForPresident said:

I would disagree with the people who think this game used to be "darker" in the early days of Warframe. Warframe in the early days was a lot more mysterious than darker, as we were dropped into this alien world without a clue of what is going on. "Dark" isn't a word that should describe Warframe at all, even in the early days. Hek, we had Grineer talking about their mothers, Vor being in what seems to be a power ranger suit, and particle effects everywhere. 

No, Warframe shouldn't be more darker or gorier or whatever. This game should be more mysterious, always hinting at something bigger. The infested liset and hidden messages were a great start.

I must say, the game was darker, is the most literal sense of the word, there was less lighting everywhere, which also gave the game an entirely different atmosphere, and over time more and more lighting has changed and different people work on building the new tilesets and revamping old ones which has overall changed the feel of the places we fight.

[Dreddeth]

This is a list which, while by no means comprehensive, details ways in which Warframe is most certainly "dark."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/Warframe

 

[taiiat]

yes and no.

Contrast is what i want and adore. things look fake when it's all the same lighting level. things look more believable, pretty, and real when lighting varies.
that means having areas very well lit, other areas fairly dark, and everywhere in between.

that Contrast makes things pop better and therefore things look prettier.
Warframe has a good amount of it in some places, but a lot more are just one note songs.

- - - - - 

oh, are we talking about storywise? Contrast there too. believable, real stories are a mixture of types of events. so just like lighting, some heavy stuff, some light stuff.

Edited March 20, 2016 by taiiat

[AdunSaveMe]

Warframe's tone is dark enough. It doesn't need to be always-serious brown/grey gritty palette all the time, you know.

Warframe's old atmosphere only existed because the game had no depth.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

Just now, R34LM said:

All of this just furthers my point: that the Tenno and Warframes are completely unrelatable and, in some cases, not likeable for the cold hearted mercenary attitude.

We're not even mercenaries (that's a player fueled concept for the gaming satisfaction of "rewards"). We get no payment out of what we do. The colonists probably don't know anything about us outside of Corpus/Grineer propaganda and the few who work in the Relays.

We're just the embodiment of Karmic Balance. Story-wise, if one side is gaining too much power or some sort of advantage over another, its our job to step in and sabotage their efforts without raising alarms. The only thing we leave behind are bodies (extermination, survival [which is really "Raid"]) and broken equipment (Sabotage, Mobile Defense possibly) while picking up resources for our own agendas (Excavation, "Raid", Spy, and Capture).

If you look up the "SMITE" Lore for the goddess "Nemesis", she's pretty much in the same boat. If someone has done something against order, its her job to re-establish the balance between Order and Chaos by the extremity of the crime done. This is what we do similarly, Corpus and Grineer con, enslave, and murder. Our responses are to bankrupt and sabotage, hunt down VIP targets, and slaughter them in turn of their crimes. No more no less.

Besides, you can be as "emotional" as you like, though you have to remember that your character is in a realm highly influenced by Shintoist and Buddhist ideals against Monarchical and [possibly wrong] Chartalist governments.  Your duty is not one where you are allowed to "goof off" or "relax". You are there to do a VERY dirty job that no one else can do (maybe except syndicates, but we do most of the dirty work for them anyways) and that is that.

Besides, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Fallout, The Division, and Destiny don't particularly have "relate-able" circumstances unless you are: A) A war time veteran, B) A war time Marine, C) An Engineer in a post-apocalyptic future, D) A rag tag gunman in a post apocalyptic New York, or E) a future human/alien with magic powers from a sentient moon and people play these games just fine.

"Relating to your character" is saved for games like Dating Sims and Slice of Life games 70% of the time (there are exceptions in more violent games, but very rarely will that be the case).

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Phatose said:

The Orokin.

We killed the Emporer and threw the Empire into chaos, but there's a couple lore snippits that disprove that we killed the entire Orokin race - specifically the ones about the Orokin lady who fell in with the Grineer and the Lorists.

[Evanescent]

Let me clarify what I mean by "Dark".

When I mean "dark", I mean it in a narrative and atmospheric sense. I don't mean more gore, more sex and more guns, more edgy dark schemes, more death.

See, all those things could make the game gritty maybe, but not dark. It could hike the rating form mature to R rated, but it wouldn't be dark. It would just be a game trying too hard to be serious.

It is not necessarily true that violence and adult material make something darker in tone. A children's fairy tale can be dark.

Let me ask you something: when has Warframe ever really made you sit down and think about what you are doing? Have you ever wondered about your choice felt the implications, felt the consequence, reflected on your actions? Have you ever seen a smile and wondered what lies behind? Have you, ever, wondered if what you have done is the right thing to do? I can tell you, for all my praise of Waframe, I have not.

What weight is there to your actions? What half truths surround you, what question gnaws at the back of your mind and makes you go out to seek answers? What horrors lie behind the sunny facades? 

We are set in a dystopian future, but there are no deep issues to explore. No psychological issues dissected, no ethical issues explored. There is no commentary on the oppression of the masses, the cost of scientific advancement, the moral ramifications of using biological weaponry.  And even if you leave all that, where is the massive, human suffering that is rampant in the wake of war? Where is the sacrifice? Where are the friends that must be left behind, nameless innocents that have become the collateral of our actions, where is the widow whose son we have taken, whose husband we slay, where is the child whose father we could not save? Where is the stake that hangs on a balance, and we must make the choice-the greater good, at the cost of the unfortunate few, or to save what is near and forsake the rest? 

Where is the friend we have come to trust, where are the people from whom we catch snippets of what havoc we had left the world to rot in? Where is the character development, emotional attachment?

I am not asking for adult content. I am not asking for people to be shown being massacred, being burned, being gassed. Because at the end of the day, they are just pixels, and cut off completely from our reality. We will feel a little horror, but in the endless repetition of gameplay the horror will lose its edge and become mere cutscenes to be skipped with a tap of the spacebar.

What I am asking for, is food for thoughts. Something that makes us questions our actions, that lets us carry a bit of what we saw and heard and felt into this reality, something that offers a lens to see through that gives us a new perspective on things we are, at this moment, seeing and hearing and feeling, be it on something day-to-day and mundane to a contemporary topic that has the world in its hold.

What I am asking for, is a sense of wonder and quiet thought...

..for what is, what was, and is not, but could have been....

[felixsylvaris]

It is hard to bring Dark themes when we are literally invicible.

Part of Dark Souls or Dead Space vibe is that protagonist is a very fragille being. But we are immortal in every meaning.

Plot is good. Mystery is good. But it dosnt need to be very dark for me.

Edited March 20, 2016 by felixsylvaris

[(XBOX)SgtFunBun]

Yes

all of this yess

[Evanescent]

4 hours ago, Evanescent said:

And if you do, how dark? Why? If not, why? 

Discuss!

You can explore the loneliness of an immortal. You can be strong, you can be undefeatable, but the same cannot be said of the world around you, and in time, it will fade. Then what will become of you?

[Lakais]

As someone mentioned before. Warframe was not "darker" in theme, way back when. It was simply far more... unknown. We had little to no lore to go on and at that time the lighting and setup of the game was more ominous, thus pushing us to "think" the game was darker. I mean back then we were all doing that meditate kneel over a giant map with ominous male chorus humming over us. As if we were judging some part of it worthy of our massive beat-down. All the maps were poorly lit, and the colors were in general very faded and bland. It "felt" more destitute because that's what we interpreted it as. 

The only thing that would make the world of Warframe feel "darker" is if we were shown more of that world. Why aren't we shown the darker side of corpus exploitation of resources and settlements? Where are the burnt remains of herded up civilians and executed colonial fighters when we attack asteroid bases or the countless other innocent people gathered up in galleons, waiting to be boiled down into soup for cloning. These are all bandaid options, I admit. Things that lose their impact after you've seen them a few times. But it's something. 

And to be honest the world is dark enough. If you look past the glitter and the chrome finish, the world of Warframe is grimdark as hell. It's just you have to look past all that shiny stuff to see it. And I guess that is the problem here. 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I want it to be darker than dark souls.

Maybe something along the lines of tennos being the bad faction all along.

Or how warframes are made being along the lines of dead enemies' flesh.

Just darker than pitch black.

 

Just kidding.

But I do hope it will be darker than now.

[paragasu]

But most of the operator are children....the "s" thing is inappropriate

[KenseiOmega]

Darker in the sense of seeing consequences for your actions? Adding gravitas to your failures? Sure. Darker in the vein of "This game is the Dark Souls of 'x'!" Nope. Tired of that crap. Every other game that comes out now is trying to be dark for the sake of being dark. It's not what I'm here for.

[Babellon]

Definitely, a deeper more emotional story implying the effects of our actions, giving us choices with consequence and allowing us to feel what we are doing is fundamental to good story telling. A good story with depth and weight will add to the immersion of the characters and give us more attachment to our role in the game world. 

[KuroShiranui]

Spec Ops: The Line on my Warframe? Well? Hmm... I dunno...

 

I still prefer the old vibe and feel from the vanilla warframe, perhaps before U14.