Every single use of the Overextended mod is degenerate and game ruining

[TeaBegging]

5 minutes ago, Urlan said:

I really don't see how Overextended is 'OP' it is a positive with a negative on top of the normal using a mod slot. How does increased range at the cost of power strength equal a need for removing the mod or improving enemy's immunity to the very moves supposed to even the odds of one versus many? With endless scaling, higher base stats, and superior numbers, our fragile crowd control warframes doing what they are designed to do is not overpowered, its the way they were created to be used just as that same corrupted mod was made to be used by them.

This is me explaining the entire thread, but a tl;dr version.

Props

[Aeon94]

45 minutes ago, ScorpDK said:

Why even post on the forums when you will discard any opinion that doesn't match yours?

^this

[ashrah]

u must be very cearful with overextended...for some frames like loki nyx no downsides at all.....but for example with banshee i use it and i counter it with all 3 power mods wen team need high power range....

[VampirePirate]

this is a complaint about people not matching your desired playstyle, not something game breaking

[.Dictator.]

Well dude, i'm sorry to say but after a certain point in any endless mission, the only thing you Can do without being oneshot is cc. Which is why overextended is used so much There is no gameplay whether or not you use the mod if your again a level 2000 enemy who oneshots you anyway...Besides this leads into the scaling argument which i'm nit getting into 

[p3z1]

What a feedback.

You could just blatantly say nerf mirage and loki instead of removing the whole mod itself.

Don't break other people's builds with what you want (like my max range chroma).

[ZodiacShinryu]

8 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

They don't spawn anymore. There is a maximum number of enemies alive at any given time.

You guys need to be honest if you want to have a real discussion.

You yourself are not discussing, you are basically demanding people agree with your point by bringing up a lofty point and effectively abusing it to shut down valid rebuts.  There are only a couple of game modes where you don't need to kill things to still continue the mission. There isn't particularly anything wrong if that is the way you want to build your frame to deal with such a mission this is what min-maxing is for but it is not your only choice.

However the problem isn't overextend in of itself.  The problem is people's mindset in general and the amount of freedom you are given when moding. I can tell you exactly when the problem came to be and it was when the little item called "FORMA" came to be. Forma effectively lifted large restrictions on how we built our frames and weapons only driving min-maxing to degrees that I don't think DE even fully accounted for. Min-maxing in basically any game degenerates the game because of the simple fact that games aren't generally designed to deal with these extremes. Overextend can be used to save your range stat should you decide to use a Narrowmind.  The trade-off is Power Strength and in a game of CC that may or may not matter as much. If you are content using one skill then fine that is your choice however if you like to use a number of your skills overextend (and min-maxing a single skill as a whole) will hinder you to some extent.

Over the development of this game it should be clear that DE wanted this to be "a game of choices" for how you wish to experience it. People need to stop worrying how others want to play and take ownership of how they wish to experience it through the tools given to them.

PS Mirage should be "nerfed", if only to put Prism in its place. It's brother skill Radial Blind was made to be LoS for the exact same reason Prism is being abused right now.

PSS CC should have diminishing returns on all enemies in general if abused in small time frames.

[(PSN)Zashukitsune]

20 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

Whatheseedback.

You could just bl atantly say nerf mirage and loki instead of removing the whole mod itself.

Don't break other people's builds with what you want (like my max range chroma).

Never tried max range Chroma.  Hows He work?

[p3z1]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Zashukitsune said:

Never tried max range Chroma.  Hows He work?

CC with his 2 (fire and ice).

Pairs with saryn as well (toxin in general).

Ignores 3, 1 to some extent. Basically a niche build (which this "feedback" breaks).

You don't do damage, but your allies and guns do it for you.

Edited March 30, 2016 by p3z1

[.Dictator.]

1 minute ago, p3z1 said:

CC with his 2 (fire and ice).

Pairs with saryn as well (toxin in general).

Ignores 3, 1 to some extent. Basically a niche build (which this "feedback" breaks).

You don't do damage, but your allies and guns do it for you.

That..actually sounds really cool, I'm gonna try this

[taiiat]

some Abilities don't take any negative from it(or a negative that is irrelevant, such as Snowglobe doesn't ultimately care about Strength loss), but there is no one answer to problematic Gameplay. having Abilities which turn off Enemies, the capability to hit the entire map with it, and to have infinite Energy + invulnerable, and Enemies Spawning near Players are all at fault, not just any one.

[IceColdHawk]

11 minutes ago, p3z1 said:

CC with his 2 (fire and ice).

Pairs with saryn as well (toxin in general).

Ignores 3, 1 to some extent. Basically a niche build (which this "feedback" breaks).

You don't do damage, but your allies and guns do it for you.

I get goosebumps when i read that lol.

[Dreddeth]

The "Dead Rant Thread" Checklist.
OP posts an ignorant opinion as if it were a fact: Check.
OP either smacks down or ignores dissenting opinions: Check.
Posters either engage in retaliatory flame-war or simply leave for more intelligent discussion: Pending.

[Brosephelon]

2 hours ago, Inmemoratus said:

That is incorrect. Blinded enemies do not take any actions.

This is incorrect.  They will not shoot, but they will still take some actions.  Mostly this consists of things like heavy gunners aoe ground slams, and similar type effects.  Blinded corpus mine laying douchebags will still lay mines.  I have seen blinded enemies shooting but I don't remember it ever being common.  

During the 1k cuts tactical alert recently I was playing Inaros a lot spamming his blind, the Bailiffs were consistently still ground slamming even while blinded with the blind particle effects still in there eyes.  

Blind is not a 100% stun/incapacitate, they can still take some actions but in general its pretty close to a full stun especially against basic enemies. 

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

1 hour ago, Inmemoratus said:

They don't spawn anymore. There is a maximum number of enemies alive at any given time.

You guys need to be honest if you want to have a real discussion.

Thos entire "discussion" is just the OP refusing to admit any points which contradict his beginning belief that the mod in question, overextended is overpowered. No matter what we say, he will still simply believe that "over-extended causes all enemies to be blinded which means that it hits the max enemy cap so you just have guys who don't shoot at you..." 

Now, for those who actually wish to have a debate. Blind still leads to enemies blindfiring at the source of any noise they hear, meaning that if you wish to not get shot then you must be using a silent weapon (or rifle/pistol with maxed hush). So before we even get any further, we already have the fact that it locks down your inventory to only a small portion of weapons if you do wish to not have enemies firing at you. Because while initially enemies will be stunned for a few moments, they quickly learn to make the most of what they have with their hearing. 

Now Overextended has a reduction of 60% at max level with power strength, which already cuts out abilities that require your power strength such as any damaging or healing based ability. Even with warframes like Mirage, Excalibur and Oberon with their blinding, you have to sacrifice pretty much every ability for that singular one. So a Mirage with overextended would lose access to a decent use of Hall of Mirrors and any chance of a decent damage reduction on an already squishy frame. So while Mirage would be extremely good at blinding enemies, she would need her team mates to cover damage and tanking. 

Also as for the idea that you would end up with all enemies useless on the map, clogging up the max enemy count. So you are saying that your team would not touch a single enemy? So the moment that you have to head to a different area then you face the risk of a large amount of enemies attacking your objective (like a defense point) or slaughtering your teammates as they try to run away due to the little rule that they can not kill them? Well that's a great idea on paper at least...

Long story short, if you want to hide away and not let enemies attack you; get a Loki or Ivara instead. 

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

36 minutes ago, taiiat said:

some Abilities don't take any negative from it(or a negative that is irrelevant, such as Snowglobe doesn't ultimately care about Strength loss), but there is no one answer to problematic Gameplay. having Abilities which turn off Enemies, the capability to hit the entire map with it, and to have infinite Energy + invulnerable, and Enemies Spawning near Players are all at fault, not just any one.

Also I may as well point out, Snow globe does suffer from power strength loss heavily. Power strength affects how much health your bubble has, so if you have a low power strength then you will either see them go out like mayflies or be locked inside the bubble just to renew it every five seconds.

[Evanescent]

See, slapping on overextended is not the problem. You still run out of energy after a while. Problem is broken energy regeneration.

[taiiat]

36 minutes ago, (XB1)Twinna25 said:

Also I may as well point out

Power Strength for Snowglobe is only relevant inside the Level Range the game works in. at the Ranges people consider inside, 60+, Power Strength is irrelevant. everyone that uses Snowglobe already casts it every 4 seconds because then they're invulnerable.
and Power Strength doesn't matter because the Health you get from it is irrelevant. as it's base Health is <5% of the total Health it will have from absorbtion, but it's the invulnerability that's really being focused on rather than the Health of any form. the absorbed Health is neat but still basically irrelevant.

you have only pointed out that you don't know how people use the Ability.

1 hour ago, Brosephelon said:

This is incorrect.  They will not shoot, but they will still take some actions.  Mostly this consists of things like heavy gunners aoe ground slams, and similar type effects.  Blinded corpus mine laying douchebags will still lay mines.  I have seen blinded enemies shooting but I don't remember it ever being common.

Blinded Enemies cannot target Players and do not know their location. they will attack/shoot last known locations and update them to where Player sound is coming from, mainly gunfire.

still, yes, Blind is basically hard CC. it has several seconds of hard CC at the beginning anyways, then Enemies are 99% less effective for the remainder of the Duration.
and you can always blind them again for more hard CC.

Edited March 30, 2016 by taiiat

[Currilicious]

How about not removing options from the game?

 

[Ivan_Rid]

Nothing makes me feel as powerful in this game as 200+% range on abilities. Be it Frosts 50~meters augmented Ice Waves, giant clouds of Nyxs Chaos Sphere, or even Rhinos Stomp.

Its fun.

 

[phoenix1992]

Overextended is "okay". It is not like that many frames can use it to begin with - Beside Loki and Speed Nova...? Suggestions?
You are making pretty bizarre assumptions based on the text on it. 

[Ivan_Rid]

5 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Overextended is "okay". It is not like that many frames can use it to begin with - Beside Loki and Speed Nova...? Suggestions?
You are making pretty bizarre assumptions based on the text on it. 

From my experience

Nyx Chaos and its augment benefit greatly from Overextended, and its not like Nyx needs power str at all.

And Frost, when facing infested, doesnt care about Snowglobe durability all that much and can focus on range and duration instead of strength. Try getting getting augments for both Ice Wave and Snowglobe and slow everything to a crawl.

[(XBOX)Doomed2Rights]

7 hours ago, Robm said:

I don't have that problem. Even on sorties. Nobody carries, I am usually busy picking everyone else up.

^This

Seriously i did not know everyone thought mirage is the ultimate squish frame. Maybe no one knows how eclipse and hall of mirrors work....

[Naftal]

I don't think it's the mods that are a problem but the abilities themselves. There should be no ability that CCs or deals damage to unlimited enemies in aoe. There should be no abilities that don't care about LoS (with some exceptions, like sonar).

I would even argue that abilities that don't require any kind of targeting but do some effect in 360 degree radius should not exist, except maybe heals and team buffs.

All this takes away from gameplay. It takes away from challenge. The only way for DE to "fix" the problem without nerfing most abilities in the game is by introducing enemies that are immune to our things and make other enemies immune too. I don't like this direction. I'd like that enemies don't have such effects, but unless the warframe abilities (and combos) that break critical gameplay aspects (god mode, unlimited energy, unlimited CC, ignoring LoS, one button press to affect all enemies etc.) are nerfed, I want more such enemies. We need more nullifiers. Grineer need nullifiers. Infested need nullifiers. But nullifiers suck for gameplay, so I'd prefer nerfing our %#&¤.

[Attel_Malagate]

I'll stick with my degenerate gameplay, thanks