Why people do not play Jordas Verdict Raid?

[-dicht.Amducias-]

2 minutes ago, Flamingfighter said:

For myself and the people I play with it's due to the raid constantly bugging out, most often in the last part. Every time they fixed something in it, it feels like the very next hotfix unfixes it. Last attempt we made was several weeks ago only to get stopped because the tentacle refused to grab the antiserum injector despite activating it and its cousin and trying every combination of activation/deactivation to try and get it to work only for it to remain defunct and us quitting after wasting over an hour of our time.

This happens if the host is outside a golem, this bug is there since the release of jv, most ppl know it yet who run jv regularly but it still is not fixed, sadly

Edited April 6, 2016 by -dicht.Amducias-

[KvnMcK]

1 hour ago, KirukaChan said:

I don't play Raids in general because I don't like the 4-person minimum requirement. Everything I do in Warframe, from Void to Tactical Alerts to Sorties, I do with one partner.

Yeah, im in the same boat. Ill do randoms from time to time for the sake of saving time on pointlessly easy missions, but I play the majority of the game with 2 IRL friends. Were our whole clan. Thats the main reason ive never even touched the raids.

[-Spyro]

I guess no one like arcwing , this is why we are waiting for all day for interception uranus

[MadHatHacker]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Onyx Guarrd said:

No one likes archwing, simple truth. Leveling my AW stuff, so tedious. Never again unless 4x booster.

I like Archwing. It's the principle reason I hate JV. It rewards almost none of the work you do to get your AW gear up to par, is tedious, was generally bugged to hell and the biggest boost the Archwing gameplay gets is not from your skill or weaponry, but from the Blessing spam. 

[PETI258]

1 hour ago, Scandroid said:

Takes to long and almost all the arcanes on it are useless

You said it right.

Me and my clan did it in the beggining since then nobody wanted to go back (still need 2 scans).
Puzzles were meh and spending 1 hour in there dropped us an arcane that nobody uses beacuse has no influance to the game what so ever.
It would be nice to trade with Baro the useless arcanes (for better goodies) or like the transmute I destroy 2-3 and give 50k credit to get a new one.
If you are the luckiest person on earth and want to get every arcane 10 times from Jordas that takes 100 days but nobody that lucky and RNG is not on our side.
And even if you want to do it 2-3 times a day with your friends (or a good group) it's not going to work beacuse there is that daily limitation.
In my opinion the overall concept is good but the drop table and the chances to get something that you might use are way below then doing a 60min t3-4 surv (12 item) or a def.
And also note that those arcanes only give a certain chances to get the power if you get the criteria and that's not very useful in end game where the criteria is DAMAGED beacuse you might just die from that shoot.

[MobyTheDuck]

Boring, long, requires you to farm resources to get to the second part, which makes you replay the first part to get there again, kicking that football around in archwing is a pain.

[Gelkor]

55 minutes ago, Anubias said:

Sadly its because most of this raid is archwing based on most ppl dont invest time/forma in archwing gear
 

Not sure if serious....

[Synpai]

1. Craft Requirements - If at first you don't succeed....go do something else. I kid, but really I don't like the idea of wasting my time failing to succeed, blah blah life simulator and all but no.

2. Archwing - One of my biggest pet peeves is that the integration,aka how much actions affect other aspects of the game, of gear is dang near nonexistent. In other words, what I do in normal Warframe has no affect on Archwing, and that pisses me off. Yes, it gives you tons to do for a while, but also deters you to do a lot. Imagine if archwing was influenced, not stat wise per se, but in some interesting way that put to use all the time you spent on leveling and gathering mods. Even if it just changed the 4th ability and just scaled with normal weapon/warfame mods it'd be awesome. Probably incredibly unbalanced, but yeah moving on.

3.Time, there are people who say that JV is quicker, but if you have an experienced team for LOR you could probably finish in 10 minutes with no effort, never timed myself.

4. LOR has an easier boss fight - Weapons and Warframes have more power than AW.

5. Complexity - Compared to LOR it's more complex and say what you will, but it's the same reason why after a long day of work and school I'm not eager to play Starcraft.

 

[Sorkheff]

1 hour ago, KirukaChan said:

I don't play Raids in general because I don't like the 4-person minimum requirement. Everything I do in Warframe, from Void to Tactical Alerts to Sorties, I do with one partner.

This.

Too many players requires you to be a part of someones clan and I have no interest in that whatsoever.

[h41pa]

Cause buggs !:)  

And all hate archwings  and   comple the Jv eat a lot of time!

[Urlan]

For me, the main thing is I hate puzzles from the start as in real situations, problems can be solved in many ways and I have never found that to be the case with puzzles in games; at least not by intent. Secondly, the trials are tedious and while I do like the idea of arcane enhancements, the trials are so unfun for my main group that I can't usually do them with my main allies; and I mainly play because they got me into the game honestly and I like doing co-op with them. Lastly, while I sometimes can get the allies to give it a go with offers of running other missions, I need at least 4 players to start the trials and while I have many allies - they have different schedules; skill levels; and tolerance for puzzles with no indication of how to do them but prior experience. I took an ally on Law of Retribution and while he lasted decently for his first time, it was such a demoralizing experience he hasn't even come back to the game since! That is his call and a few allies still do the darn things for spare doodads and such but even they don't find enjoyment in it, and really, that is the worst thing of all I would think.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Urlan

[(PSN)Gangalito]

My friends and I raid almost every day.  JV is easy, it runs pretty smooth.  The hardest part is learning the 3rd phase where you gotta kill the nerves, but once you figure it out it's again, pretty easy.  If you can get a crew where you actually succede on a regular basis it's very worth it for the arcanes.  If you're constantly failing or getting stuck on some one of the parts over and over I can see it not being worth, but that just means you need friends who actually know how to play the game.  If you have people weighing down your raid group, sorry but they gotta go.

I see multiple references to puzzles in this thread as well.  Warframe raids don't have puzzles, figuring out what to do is the easy part, it's getting your team to coordinate that's difficult.  You're focus on "puzzles" should only be for maybe the first few times you do the raid, they're pretty easy to learn, and there's many maps and guides at this point. After that, you gotta get you're raiders in line for coordination.

PS.  We always find it removes a lot of confusion regarding who goes where if you assign jobs to everyone.  Then there's no "Why isn't anyone coming to stand on this plate" kinda stuff.  

Edited April 6, 2016 by (PS4)Gangalito

[Cloud]

I saw that many people find the collecting sierum fragment part, one of the most tedious part of the raid, I wonder if everyone is aware of the fact that once the injector is crafted , you can keep it, and you will never need to farm it again. 

For what concern AW. As others have pointed out, even though JV should be the "Archwing raid", it has only two sections in which they are used, the first one that is mandatory for all, and the third in which you can choose (so if you prefer not to use aw, or you have not a good gear, can stay in).

I think that what heavily penalize this raid is its third phase:  the complexity and number of various mechanics/parts in the insides with interaction items located in the less likely places, plus the caotic tileset (typical of infested) and fatal bugs ,mixed with the non-intuitive arrangement, and for last with the total absence of any non-generical indication just makes a deadly drink which no one would like to taste.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

Watched it on Prime Time, and since the raids are reward-balanced around dailies, as a daily, it just looked... exhausting.  I'd like to give it a try at least once, but I pug most of my raids, and recruiting chat's pretty big on serum injectors, so it seems I missed the window.

[SilentMobius]

The Jordas Verdict it a Trial + Archwing, that already limits your audience to those who are OK with AW content, on top of that:

Raids/Trials are horrible toxic content. So people are more likely to behave in a horrible, toxic way.

When you force people to team regardless of their desire to team you start things off by removing a choice, this creates a baseline level of resentment even in people who are normally happy to team.

On top of that you ensure that the mechanics are such that it doesn't take many mistakes to ruin the experience for the whole group. This creates a huge pressure to lead-or-obey, and it ensures that players spend a lot of energy trying to filter out "undesirable" people, usually poorly. This is actually a form of PvP, you extend the time-sink of your content by encouraging players to evaluate and reject potential team-mates manually, everyone is on-edge looking for signs that they deem are indicators of "unfit" behaviour.

So to add the constructive part of the post, how you you do such content "right"?

1. Make the rewards granular, so you can easily give 0.25 of a reward or 2.1 of a reward.
2. Make the rewards scale with the difficulty
3. Make the difficulty scale with the number of participants all the way down to 1
4. Make sure that rewards are per-person and, at least partially, tied to individual successes not group successes.
5. Allow reduced rewards from overall partial failure and allow a little slack in the criteria for total success. 
6. Make sure that with more people the content is more fun so people want to team up to run the content.
7. Allow auto matching if desired.
8. Put systems in place to automatically give feedback to a player as to whether they are well enough equipped before they queue up

This way, no one is locked out of content, good leadership results in better rewards but there isn't heavy pressure to reject teammates.

The current system just encourages toxic behaviour.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SilentMobius

[magusat999]

The only attractive part about Raids, imho, is the rewards. The Arcanes are imprisoned behind LoR Raids, for example. I haven't done any Raids, of either type, because of what I saw as prerequisites while looking into them (researching how to do them) and the convoluted design. 

The Archwing thing is something that I COULD like, if Archwing progression and rewards were faster add better. Of the Archwing I have done, I feel lack of rewards as compared to the regular missions. Like doing several waves of defense and leaving with a few weak mods - that isn't attracting me to continue playing Archwing. Also, the fact that Archwing offers no non-Archwing rewards whatsoever is a downer to me. If I thought I could, for example, obtain a prime part by doing Archwing, I would be more inclined to play it - but being self-contained as it is - as if it is a separate game is not appealing to me. Further, it takes FOREVER to upgrade Archwing gear - totally boring. And even further - the pathing in Archwing is irritating. The navigation system is pathetically disorienting. The extraction point is some random unknown point in the air somewhere, people floating around at the end of missions trying to figure out where the hell it is. SO, I could never be confident in my Archwing enough to play an Archwing Raid - because I can't see myself investing my time in a boring adventure, grinding to get where I can actually be strong enough to participate in a Raid involving Archwing.

As far as LoR - it's too complicated. not saying I couldn't figure it out or learn it - its just unnecessarily too complicated, that's all. Too many things you have to learn OUTSIDE of clues the game SHOULD give you on the fly. I watched a lot of video, and ONLY because I want Arcanes. If Arcanes were not holed up behind that wall, I would never even think about Raids. The design of Raids, as with the Moon puzzles - remind me of an old cryptic puzzle game called Myst (perhaps some other old folk like me have heard of it?). Myst gave you ZERO CLUES - you just go around encountering these puzzles and had to figure it out. Sometimes it might not even be a puzzle, but you have no clue so you spend countless hours trying to figure it out - or you go watch videos (or in my day read walkthroughs). As I was looking at these Raid videos, I was like - "Where is the in-game clues to solving this mission". There are none - you have to go outside the game or have someone "guide" you through it. Also, if you aren't using voice chat then you are at a distinct disadvantage - and I am not interested in voice. Too bad the game is designed to punish you with pop-up swarms if you open up the chat box to communicate. So that leaves me out. Just too much trouble and too much being asked of me, so Raids are out of the question for me.

Edited April 7, 2016 by magusat999

[Jerakl]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Onyx Guarrd said:

No one likes archwing, simple truth. Leveling my AW stuff, so tedious. Never again unless 4x booster.

I like Archwing.

[FoxyKabam]

raids are just too big a pain in the &#! to even start up and try, let alone finish

there aren't any rewards in them to really entice me, or any gameplay I feel I'd have fun doing, it all just looks like one big headache

[Fionntan]

JV lacks of any Arcanes I desire.

Also Part 1 & 2 are neat, but I feel Part 3 can be cluster   for me to know where to go :/

Guess happens when I only do once or twice on raid, but even with vids or guide it's still confusing to know where to go or what to press w/o messing up :( 

That's my 2 cents.  

[kaliazane]

why ?

1. Archwing, lots of ppl ignore everything archwing related and dont have any pimped arch weapons

2. Incjector.

3. It's actually really complicated when you go there first time.

[carnaga]

Many things.

In PUB:
1) Starting an 8 man raid is pretty exhausting progress.
2) When I join a raid most of the time we (the other players in the session excluding the host) are experiencing lag.
3) In PUB it's pretty rare to end up with a good host.

In CLAN:
1) People in my clan have good gaming rigs and proper connections to host an 8 man gaming session -- including me.
2) We do JV bit rarely compared to LoR. There is too much hassle to farm antiserum fragments and build few injectors which renders JV less attractive.

[fatpig84]

I don't even like regular Raids much.
I just do it once for the badges.

Sorties on the other hand are more varied and actually requires a bit more forethought on planning.
Also even if your team is arsed, it doesn't mean you lose immediately, it is quite possible to carry through if you are experienced or gear enough. You can't do that with a raid, if your team is uncooperative, it is a goner.

Sorties are pretty much a more "casual" endgame than Raids, but its is fine for me.
Barring obnoxiously selections like defense defense then survival. That can be a drag. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by fatpig84

[Moghul]

It's broken, it's archwing crap, and it requires communication. I just flat out refuse to even try it. The vids on youtube make it look like a chore rather than a fun experience.

[TyrannosauRayz]

Cuz archwing sucks. Not that TOTALLLLY sucks, it just needs a LOT... LOOOOT OF LOTS of rework.

[TotallyLagging]

Because having to farm something inside the raid to actually complete the raid itself is a complete joke.