Stance combos should work THIS way:

[ThorienKELL]

I apologize in advance for being too direct and "telling" you how things should work, but I'm very sure I've got this right. 

Lately stances that DE is making are being really awesome addon to the game but way they are work and activate should be ...different.

 

First no more timing combos of any kind (lmb, lmb, pause, lmb). Most people just disregard them. In middle of fight last thing you can think about is how many times you pressed attack or is your pause long enough. Even more, changing attack speed on your weapon will also mess up your timings.

 

Every combo should be achievable with continuous action.  This is the main part. Either lmb spamming or hold rmb +lmb spamming or hold forward +lmb spamming. Continuous action.

 

Transitions between combos should not require pause. In short: You don't stop clicking, ever. If you change on type of combo to another, frame should do it seamlessly.

 

Most if not all weapons should same same combos for same things. For example all "leap" or move forward /gain terrain combos should be done with forward +lmb spamming for all weapons that have it.

 

Here is the example:

LMB spamming - standard general combat combo.

LMB spamming + hold "forward" - leap /gain terrain, mobility combo. 

Hold RMB +LMB spamming - AoE combo.

Hold "back" + LMB spamming - defensive combo.

 

Small disclaimer:

-If you plan to disagree be sure to read all at least to know what I'm talking about.

-I am aware that there are exceptions, some ppl can easily do this stuff, maybe even like them, some weapons are better and easier to use now then the others. But that is exception that just confirms the rule. I believe these changes will benefit almost everyone, massively. 

-I put this in general because first I want to have an discussion and know what you think of it, any constructive criticism, anything I possible forgot.

-If you agree please vote this up. if many ppl agrees I will post this somewhere in feedback for devs to see. (Which is best forum for themes like this btw?)

[TwelfthAngel]

Agreed.

The need to paus is just annoying and I don't bother with any combos that need it.

[NabiCho]

DE could adopt the system from Dynasty Warriors/Samurai Warriors. I do agree though that having to pause, hold RMB, or press a directional key can be a bit annoying when using melee.

[Dreddeth]

Your system honestly makes much more sense. It reminds me of how hack-'n'-slash games (the premier of nuanced melee combat) have universality in command input. For example, in the Devil May Cry series, forward + melee while locked on will always, always be your gap-closer or reaching attack, and back + melee while locked on will always, always be your launcher. There might be differences in speed, power, range, or utility aspect, but the command inputs are universally identical.

It makes every weapon very easy to grasp at a basic level, but still leaves room for individual mechanics which require practice to master, from the chargeable attacks of the Ifrit gauntlets, to the Lucifer swords' set-up & finish style, to the Nevan scythe being a spell turret.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

only problem I have is the LMB + RMB combos: how would that work on console? we can't use both bumpers, as the left one is for Channeling, and it would seem awkward to do it any other way I reckon.

[Melos-mevim]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

only problem I have is the LMB + RMB combos: how would that work on console? we can't use both bumpers, as the left one is for Channeling, and it would seem awkward to do it any other way I reckon.

they can rebind channeling to a button that is not used when equipping melee, like alt fire or reload

[taiiat]

constant button spamming being incentivized... meh.
especially with Animation Lock issues - everything being centralized around button mashing and then using your Allies to revive you when Animation Lock f...s you in the arse... not good game design.

there's enough buttons on all platforms to have atleast a two button Melee system, up to 4 possibly.
having modifiers to perform different attack types is... good? how is this bad? it's much better than holding or pausing attack.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Just now, Melos-mevim said:

they can rebind channeling to a button that is not used when equipping melee, like alt fire or reload

reload button could work, but trying to depress a stick and keep a bumper down for a long time is very awkward. and this is from someone who doesn't even bother with channeling that much, but I know that some people do, and you've got to account for everyone.

 

[Melos-mevim]

Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

reload button could work, but trying to depress a stick and keep a bumper down for a long time is very awkward. and this is from someone who doesn't even bother with channeling that much, but I know that some people do, and you've got to account for everyone.

 

make it a toggle, press the channel button once it stays on press it again it turns off

[Magnulast]

I have to disagree, just bluntly, there doesn't seem to be a advantage to this idea, other than berserker spamming, (Removing initations)

Seemless combos are kinda....nice, however that just seems like a lot of mid-animation work....I'm not sure exactly where the benefit is...any good examples would help..If I am correct, we can't transition between combos into the middle of a other combo right? Then to me it just doesn't make sense.....

Most weapons shouldn't have the same style of activating combos.....even thought if I am correct most combos are similar...namely the Hold Block and Charge combos.(Don't we already have that? I mean, almost every combo initiation is similar...if I am correct...) However the SAME EFFECT? Definitely a no, it basically makes all the weapons feel like the same thing. I don't want to use a dagger to create a AOE effect of damage, nor do I want a Gunblade to have a defensive combo.

This idea will kill diversity, and I dislike how it decides to remove skilled usage by spaming E. 

To me, I think stances at least need skill to use their combos, and not just E spaming.

And I think they should be diverse as the nikana stances are and not just some different look just to let them have the same effect.

This idea only benefits berserker weapons, namely the Tipedo, which has the highest speed, and is incredibly hard to use with the pause.

----------------------Quick Answer-------------------

I disagree, this removes all sorts of skill, and makes every stance the same thing with a animation reskin.

I don't see pause transitions as a issue, I can use them fine in berserker, I'm not saying "Git good" but I'm saying is get used to it, every weapon shouldn't be the same thing. Each weapon is different but it shouldn't be used the same way as every other weapon.  The only weapon that is affected by this issue is the tipedo(I don't prefer slaming E so I got rid of it for the lesion for status spam), I haven't seen any other weapon with this issue. It's a problem with the weapon more than a problem with the stance system.

Seamless transitions are useless since they pretty much have no advantage because you'll still have to start from the beginning of another combo, there isn't even a example to show this as a benefit. 

----------------------------Issues------------------------------------

There isn't a example for what weapons will be "fixed" by theses issues, or rather what is fixed.

There isn't any sort of example providing a benefit of seamless transitions, I don't see a benefit, the only thing I may think that I could add is that tapping block in the middle of a combo cancels the combo.

I don't think DE wanted stance mods to be more a benefit to players that don't use skills on combos...I think they wanted to reward skilled usage of combos, so mashing EEEE isn't what I think they were headed towards. (I think it was said in a devstream that stances rewarded skilled use...I might be confused with usage though.)

----------------------------------------------------------------

4 minutes ago, Melos-mevim said:

make it a toggle, press the channel button once it stays on press it again it turns off

Reload/Context actions already disengages Redeemer's and Glaive's charge attack. So no to that, and we aren't going to remove that option.

[Hypernaut1]

I don't like this idea and I DO use weapon combos. Many combos give distinct advantages and theyre really not THAT hard to pull off.

[Valiant]

9 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't like this idea and I DO use weapon combos. Many combos give distinct advantages and theyre really not THAT hard to pull off.

Think the problem is that most of the time when push comes to shove combos tend to be the last thing on your mind and as mentioned, can screw up timings and even the flow.

I too use combos where possible and sort of like them here and there but they are a nuisance and don't feel fluent compared to other games. Sometimes you just don't feel like you always get the benefit.

Think it needs a rework, regardless.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Naith

[Spot.]

To me, directional combos restrict freedom of movement while fighting, and that can halt the flow of fighting. I feel that this idea just replaces one issue with another.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Spot.

[Hypernaut1]

21 minutes ago, Naith said:

Think the problem is that most of the time when push comes to shove combos tend to be the last thing on your mind and as mentioned, can screw up timings and even the flow.

I too use combos where possible and sort of like them here and there but they are a nuisance and don't feel fluent compared to other games. Sometimes you just don't feel like you always get the benefit.

Think it needs a rework, regardless.

I dont know- I am able to use them in the heat of battle. Its a simple rythm. 

Sure, I would like Ninja Gaiden style complexity,  but OP solution sounds worse than what we have.

[Sutok]

I always fail combos with pause or hold, which sometimes are the only ones on the stances I can use.

I can only agree for another combo system 

[nonscience]

Woow, thanks for asking to make one of the few last option that require some skill to be dumbed down.

Takes about ten minutes of practice in full melee mode to be able to time them even under Volt speed. So no, no rework needed thank you

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I dont know- I am able to use them in the heat of battle. Its a simple rythm. 

Sure, I would like Ninja Gaiden style complexity,  but OP solution sounds worse than what we have.

A rythm which doesn't always actually go well with the battle or the situation. Sometimes it's either you take out that enemy with a simple method or you try using the combo taking up more time. So unfortunately I do know and I just didn't think it was worthwhile in the chaos of it all, except for when I'm using War and the lovely AoE combo's.

But yeah, I sincerely doubt I'd be bothered about that combo when I'm then getting surrounded by enemies while doing it, which can happen all of a sudden. They just aren't that effective. If maybe their hits were doubled on the melee counter, or they made your melee counter double for a brief period of time ooor if it increased critical damage/chance/proc chance/damage via armour/shields or something, I'd feel a much stronger incentive and benefit, apart from generally looking fancy and getting a possible interesting result like AoE attacks.

Further to that, one bad element of the current animation/combo system is that you could be stuck in the animation frame and end up doing something/going somewhere you don't want to go and getting shot up. Love those 'yeah I kinda need to move here but I'm stuck... My fate is now sealed' moments.

7 minutes ago, nonscience said:

Woow, thanks for asking to make one of the few last option that require some skill to be dumbed down.

Takes about ten minutes of practice in full melee mode to be able to time them even under Volt speed. So no, no rework needed thank you

 

Oh please, it's hardly about 'skill' and more to do with effectiveness. Generally anyone can pull of the combo's because they aren't actually that hard, but that's not the issue here. Well, at least mainly not for me as I think I may have moved off onto another area related to it.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Naith

[Sorkheff]

I would absolutely love "pause" being replaced by something. The best combos for cleaving whirlwind and crushing ruin require it and it's just kind of silly.

[nonscience]

15 minutes ago, Naith said:

Oh please, it's hardly about 'skill' and more to do with effectiveness. Generally anyone can pull of the combo's because they aren't actually that hard, but that's not the issue here. Well, at least mainly not for me as I think I may have moved off onto another area related to it.

I can totally see the appeal. I am just salty about that since a lot of late content goes in the direction of easy casual playing which is fine in a way but shouldn't be the norm at all cost.
Agreed, it's hardly skills involved here, combos are easy but even as they are now, I don't see people using them anyway even when they know how to. Then why change that for a mechanic that is basically spam attack with one optional click for effect? Efficiency here looks more like trivializing.

I'd rather see stances spam attacks with no special effects and a little bit of improvement if using more "complex" combos.

[Xgomme]

Two buttons combos, but not this please ^^

 

Your idea just remove the skill, and I don't like that, but I agree the actual combo system is not that good and not that skill based too

 

(For people who don't know how to do "pause" combos, just spam like the basic combo but push longer the button each time. You just have to find the timing and you can spam them like a regular combo)

Edited April 10, 2016 by Xgomme

[Aquasurge]

it may not be hard for vet but for new tenno, it is very hard. especially for those who don't prefer melee combat.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Aquasurge

[DakotaStorm]

I don't even bother with combos, just constantly spam spin attack 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

15 hours ago, Naith said:

Think the problem is that most of the time when push comes to shove combos tend to be the last thing on your mind and as mentioned, can screw up timings and even the flow.

I too use combos where possible and sort of like them here and there but they are a nuisance and don't feel fluent compared to other games. Sometimes you just don't feel like you always get the benefit.

Think it needs a rework, regardless.

When push comes to shove, im not using a melee weapon anymore.....

[(PSN)PillarOfWar]

21 hours ago, Melos-mevim said:

they can rebind channeling to a button that is not used when equipping melee, like alt fire or reload

Ya. I would like the controller remapped when melee is equipped to allow better combos

[PsychedelicSnake]

Since I love those kinds of games, I'm honestly more of a fan of Warframe adopting a more character action style of melee, although obviously there would need to be changes to accommodate the larger number of enemies.