Behaviour on Devstream

[jinxeverything]

Just now, Noamuth said:

I can only imagine the kind of punishments she dishes out XD

You must cuddle this kitty for 11 hours!

Go Clean Your Office, Right Meow!

You left the coffee pot dirty of the weekend? You're buying everyone Starbucks for a week!

Or increase the noggle capacity even more than is?

They did push it because of her XD

[MagPrime]

Just now, Prinny13 said:

Or increase the noggle capacity even more than is?

They did push it because of her XD

Oh my yes.

[jinxeverything]

1 minute ago, Noamuth said:

Oh my yes.

Oh my no, i already turned off lots of in-game settings just to make sure i don't burn up my motherboard again, if do go and force them to do that i won't be able to play this game :(

She better "leak" more "not ready to be seen by players" as a punishment than break FPS.

Not arguing here, just worrying about my laptop that is all :)

[MagPrime]

Just now, Prinny13 said:

Oh my no, i already turned off lots of in-game settings just to make sure i don't burn up my motherboard again, if do go and force them to do that i won't be able to play this game :(

She better "leak" more "not ready to be seen by players" as a punishment than break FPS.

Not arguing here, just worrying about my laptop that is all :)

I only own two noggles lol so I didn't even think about that.

[jinxeverything]

I'm keeping my christmas decoration on all the time with 4 noggles and i already feel the FPS is lowering with every turn XD

[(PSN)RedChili69]

39 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

I hate to say it but...you sound very white knight-y. The 'interruptions' werent even bad, they expanded on what she was saying. And so what if they have a drink in their streams? Theres nothing unprofessional about it as long as they stay on topic.

Yeah, who called the no fun police?

[Circle_of_Psi]

22 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

 

Steve looked sad and wad about to cry at one point, made me sad too :(

Wait what, I didn't ntoice that

[R34LM]

Yeah, I found it to be quite annoying that Rebecca was trying to show some content but she was continuously interrupted; I could even see that she was getting irritated. Then again, this sort of unnecessary banter happens rarely on streams, and I've only noticed it in a select amount of streams.

I was greatly disappointed that Limbo's, Oberon's and Loki's passives were not finalized yet; if they could conjure up ones for every other frame they really should have had the time to figure the last three out.

It's always good to have fun and place some enjoyment on what would otherwise be a boring notes session, but don't let fun get in the way of information that we actually come to see presented.

[jinxeverything]

10 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

Wait what, I didn't ntoice that

I could be wrong but me and many on the chat felt that way.

At around 39:56

 

[Lijka]

If my post is seen as white-knighting Rebecca, that's fine, I don't mind, since quite frankly it's her that leads the Devstreams and usually is the one providing us with most info and in case when such banter gets out of control it's usually her that's being interrupted. Also I do have big respect for her, because as AM-Bunny said, she does seem to understand the community. She openly voiced concerns about Oberon's current passive plans, despite others insisting it's cool. Haven't seen Steve, for example, being interrupted when he speaks, at least not with the intensity we've seen today. As much as I don't care about Market, it really annoyed me that she began three times on it only to be interrupted again, with something completely off topic, which only delayed the info.

As I have stated in the initial post, I usually have a good laugh about their banter and at some of their jokes, but today it just got out of hand, creating unpleasant "oh, get on with it already moments". So yes, I am quite serious with this thread, simply giving feedback on something.

As for the beer/alcohol, my oppinion on it is in the initial post as well. I don't mind a single beer, but few streams ago, Scott had more, so I simply added it to the Devstream feedback topic as something that irked me about it. Oh no, how dare I have an oppinon on it :o Clearly it's not just me, though, since both Geoff and Rebecca, as well as some of the other players share that view.

So let me clarify one more time: have fun, please because when you do, we certainly do too, just keep it within reason.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Lijka

[Factman]

I completely agree with the OP, there is a line that was surpassed. That being said, there is no such thing as a perfect performance, and if they do err, I prefer them to err just barely into sillyness rather than being too boring and business. I play their game to take a break from that. 

[(XBOX)BluAina]

I'm up for continuing what they do no change, it's just their laid back attitude.

[Roboplus]

2 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:

Yeah, there's occasions where they get a bit out of hand though. I love Rebecca's dedication, she really understands the community's concerns I think.

Almost like she actually plays the game.

Shame not all industry employees can show such dedication.

[Chipputer]

Not saying Rebecca doesn't do anything important (she does some very important things), but when the other guys get on the stream and start having a chat and having fun, it's been evident, in the past, that it's one of the few times in the week they actually get together. Furthermore, as someone who does a weekly thing in front of people, we occasionally have weeks where things just aren't jiving properly. I didn't feel this week was any different than any other week, so I'm not exactly certain where the complaints came from, but perhaps this was one of those non-jiving weeks.

They're working hard on a lot of things. The guys actually coding and changing the game (the ones who get all the flak) have a right to be stressed out about things and act a little off once in a while.

I do agree, however, that imbibing too much during a stream (or at all) is something that shouldn't happen. Period.

[Rhekemi]

I always read AM-B's overviews because it saves time I often can't make, but from time to time I watch the streams.

Because of this thread, I decided to watch #74.

From my viewing, several posts here made it seem worse than it was. I wasn't annoyed, and though a little chaotic, it was a good stream.

Yes. The drinking most likely made the guys more unruly early on, but they settled down well enough, I thought. (Until the live-action Lunaro at the end.)

Rebecca handled it well, and during the more excessive tomfoolery, spoke up for herself, dropped zingers, and told them to stop (and I've seen her do it on other streams: putting her foot down about jokes that were inappropriate, for instance).

I can see why she doesn't drink during the streams: someone has to steer the ship with a level head. 

To say it's rude and disrespectful is of course, technically true, but these people are not only a good team, they're a family in many ways.

In any environment of good friends, or good friends who are also colleagues, this kind of goofing off, interrupting each other, sometimes happens. It's human. (It's almost guaranteed if people are buzzed.) And in those environments, in my experience, it's almost always worse than it looks to an observer.

From time to time, teams and families annoy, disrespect, and are rude to each other. The broader context of their behavior matters in those moments. Are they always like this? Is it deliberate and malicious? Is there a root cause, or problem that needs to be addressed?

No, they're not always like this. No, it didn't seem malicious. As for root problems, the OP has hinted at two issues.

One is the drinking. I don't drink, but I also don't begrudge the guys for doing so. Everyone has their method for unwinding, and loosening up, and working on Warframe and hosting a livestream are certainly two good reasons to need to unwind and loosen up.

I think they could certainly drink a little less if it becomes objectively problematic. That is something Rebecca and the team are more well-suited to address than me. If it is objectively problematic, I hope they talk about it together, as a team, and decide if the drinking needs to come down a notch or stop.

The second issue is trickier, but if I read the OP's second post right, is about Rebecca not being respected when speaking on the same level as Steve. Whether you're attributing that to the fact that his role on the team is different, or because he's a man, I don't know.

What I do know is they're a team, and quite honestly, it's clear they all respect and love each other. I choose to give them at least that much credit, the benefit of the doubt, and hope that if there is a communication or respect issue, they can address it as a team and a family and come away stronger.

When I view these people as a team and a family, I'm not sure a topic about it is the best idea. 

I'd also urge everyone to look inwards at their own lives. How well do you respect your teammates, family members, colleagues in the endeavors and projects in your lives on a daily basis? How easy is it to talk over and interrupt people you know, goof off (especially when buzzed)?

In my observations and personal experience, it's plenty easy for people this close to act this way.

I don't know, I didn't really see a problem.

I saw people.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Mak_Gohae]

They got through enough content on this stream.  If you guys think this is bad you must not watch the side show. In that show Reb and Megs just go on and on and on talking about nothing. That's why i stopped watching that show.

 

But im sure Sheldon got in trouble for dropping that beer. You can see that Steve was angry and he even pulled out his phone to probably write him up. Poor Sheldon, the dude was just trying to bring some fun.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

The second issue is trickier, but if I read the OP's second post right, is about Rebecca not being respected when speaking on the same level as Steve. Whether you're attributing that to the fact that his role on the team is different, or because he's a man, I don't know

It's seemingly a thinly veiled sexism stab. It's also entirely unwelcome, if it is so, as there's no actual context given to the interruptions to justify it.

Let's look at the Marketplace demo:

First time: Rebecca was about to start, Steve was trying to finish his thought, if anything Rebecca interrupted him.
Second time: Rebecca wanted to start, Steve was about to read another question, they started at the same time, neither one was really willing to give any ground.

This hints more at Steve and Rebecca having a personal issue they need to work out, on their own time, not some, "wow Steve just doesn't respect Rebecca at all!"

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

I always read AM-B's overviews because it saves time I often can't make, but from time to time I watch the streams.

Because of this thread, I decided to watch #74.

From my viewing, several posts here made it seem worse than it was. I wasn't annoyed, and though a little chaotic, it was a good stream.

Yes. The drinking most likely made the guys more unruly early on, but they settled down well enough, I thought. (Until the live-action Lunaro at the end.)

Rebecca handled it well, and during the more excessive tomfoolery, spoke up for herself, dropped zingers, and told them to stop (and I've seen her do it on other streams: putting her foot down about jokes that were inappropriate, for instance).

I can see why she doesn't drink during the streams: someone has to steer the ship with a level head. 

To say it's rude and disrespectful is of course, technically true, but these people are not only a good team, they're a family in many ways.

In any environment of good friends, or good friends who are also colleagues, this kind of goofing off, interrupting each other, sometimes happens. It's human. (It's almost guaranteed if people are buzzed.) And in those environments, in my experience, it's almost always worse than it looks to an observer.

From time to time, teams and families annoy, disrespect, and are rude to each other. The broader context of their behavior matters in those moments. Are they always like this? Is it deliberate and malicious? Is there a root cause, or problem that needs to be addressed?

No, they're not always like this. No, it didn't seem malicious. As for root problems, the OP has hinted at two issues.

One is the drinking. I don't drink, but I also don't begrudge the guys for doing so. Everyone has their method for unwinding, and loosening up, and working on Warframe and hosting a livestream are certainly two good reasons to need to unwind and loosen up.

I think they could certainly drink a little less if it becomes objectively problematic. That is something Rebecca and the team are more well-suited to address than me. If it is objectively problematic, I hope they talk about it together, as a team, and decide if the drinking needs to come down a notch or stop.

The second issue is trickier, but if I read the OP's second post right, is about Rebecca not being respected when speaking on the same level as Steve. Whether you're attributing that to the fact that his role on the team is different, or because he's a man, I don't know.

What I do know is they're a team, and quite honestly, it's clear they all respect and love each other. I choose to give them at least that much credit, the benefit of the doubt, and hope that if there is a communication or respect issue, they can address it as a team and a family and come away stronger.

When I view these people as a team and a family, I'm not sure a topic about it is the best idea. 

I'd also urge everyone to look inwards at their own lives. How well do you respect your teammates, family members, colleagues in the endeavors and projects in your lives on a daily basis? How easy is it to talk over and interrupt people you know, goof off (especially when buzzed)?

In my observations and personal experience, it's plenty easy for people this close to act this way.

I don't know, I didn't really see a problem.

I saw people.

These sentiments exactly. Wow. 

[Evanescent]

I have to agree. We had almost 15-20 minutes wasted because of the antics on screen. I don't mind fun guys, but this is a devstream, we get one only 2 weeks and its just an hour long. We want to hear serious cool stuff with a little sprinkling of fun. That's a large chink of the devstream real estate wasted for nobody's benefit.

Pease don't let the off-topic overload the stream again please.  

[Rhekemi]

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

It's seemingly a thinly veiled sexism stab. It's also entirely unwelcome, if it is so, as there's no actual context given to the interruptions to justify it.

Let's look at the Marketplace demo:

First time: Rebecca was about to start, Steve was trying to finish his thought, if anything Rebecca interrupted him.
Second time: Rebecca wanted to start, Steve was about to read another question, they started at the same time, neither one was really willing to give any ground.

This hints more at Steve and Rebecca having a personal issue they need to work out, on their own time, not some, "wow Steve just doesn't respect Rebecca at all!"

I do not think Lijka was making that last statement at all. But if you meant it as hyperbole to make a point, might not be the best idea. Your points in your other post were great, and I don't think you (or we) need hyperbole (though it's easy to use, as I sometimes do).

But that is a great point about the back and forth and miscommunication or start-stop communication during that portion of the stream. It's the kind of stuff that simply happens and may not be indicative of some underlying disrespect at all.

I still honestly have no idea if Lijka meant it's because Steve is a man or it's because of their different positions on the team.

[Lijka]

6 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

The second issue is trickier, but if I read the OP's second post right, is about Rebecca not being respected when speaking on the same level as Steve. Whether you're attributing that to the fact that his role on the team is different, or because he's a man, I don't know.

 

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I still honestly have no idea if Lijka meant it's because Steve is a man or it's because of their different positions on the team.

 

My statement that I did not see Steve interrupted as much was in asnwer to someone's comment that they interrupt eachother as much as they did Rebecca. There was nothing more to it, so please don't make it so. Furthermore both Rebecca and Steve were used as examples, since they are the people talking most on the streams. The aim of my post was not to defend Reb or attack Steve, but to illustrate a certain issue. I feel like it's only the negative feedback from my post that was considered relevant, not the part where I say I love that devteam are fun-loving, laid back people and that most of the time I have a good laugh along with them.

I do recognise that the guys are there because it's sometimes better to get an answer about something from a person responsible for it, rather than from a middle-man, which is Rebecca's role. I support that and I will state again, that I do not want the Devstreams to turn into boring, bussiness-like monologues. However, the main and fundamental purpose of Devstreams is providing information and addressing the issues raised by the community and I felt like today that purpose was, at momens, disrupted in a way that I personally felt inappropriate. It's not about who interrupted whom, but the fact that it happened in such intensity as it did on this stream. Again, I haven't stated anywhere that it's a regular occurence. In fact, in my both previous post I supported their usual attitudes, and I will say again that devstreams are certainly much more pleasant to watch when the devs have fun doing it. I simply asked them to take under consideration the amount and intensity. I have also nowhere said anything about respect, as the relations between them are their own, so my point was not whether it was impolite or not, but that it disrupted the flow of information. On the occasion where Steve interrupted Rebecca by answering another question is actually something I didn't mind, since I was always a strong supporter of more Q&A section.

Yes, it's clear that they like eachother and like spending time together, however nothing stops them from meeting out of work, so I strongly disagree with the sentiment that Devstreams are the only time they can meet and unwind. Still, I can't stress enough that I do not begrudge them having fun of Devstreams, in fact I do support it, as long as it is kept within reason.

As for alcohol, I stand by my statement, that drinking during airtime is unprofessional, be it one beer or more. Again, as I stated it in my initial post, I don't truly mind, but felt like expressing my oppinion on the matter. I am allowed to, no? For the record, Sheldon spilling the beer actually made me laugh as it was a genuine, funny accident and I couldn't care less if it was beer, coffee or water.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Lijka

[Charged.Particle]

What is done in ones own office is privileged information, the privilege of the stream viewer is access to what would normally be a private workplace. If it is done by the dev team it is how it is done. Content creators of times long past would never have allowed public viewership for the exact reason that this thread exists.

With that being said, respect is mutually assured only when all involved parties agree on trust rather than a iron clad set of principles. It is the only modern way to engage in any creative endeavor as a team. I know little to nothing about Warframe players and this games history because nobody I knew personally played it, yet it is a giant growing game and I couldn't be more pleased with it. 

YT

Edited May 14, 2016 by Charged.Particle

[Rhekemi]

11 hours ago, Lijka said:

My statement that I did not see Steve interrupted as much was in asnwer to someone's comment that they interrupt eachother as much as they did Rebecca. There was nothing more to it, so please don't make it so. Furthermore both Rebecca and Steve were used as examples, since they are the people talking most on the streams. The aim of my post was not to defend Reb or attack Steve, but to illustrate a certain issue. 

I see. Thanks for the clarification. If it seemed like I was accusing you of something, I wasn't. That was simply how I interpreted that part of your post, and even then, I wasn't sure.

11 hours ago, Lijka said:

I feel like it's only the negative feedback from my post that was considered relevant, not the part where I say I love that devteam are fun-loving, laid back people and that most of the time I have a good laugh along with them.

Why? Everything should be considered in context, including the feedback you receive.

I always take upvotes into consideration when trying to discern how well a post, idea, or complaint is recieved. Do take your own topic's uvpotes into consideration as it is the simplest (and often purest) way for members to agree wholeheartedly--meaning they agree not only with your complaint, but the positive parts of your post.

Not to mention the many members who posted to say they agreed.

Everyone drawn to this thread can't really be faulted for keying in on the drinking, or unruly nature of a portion of the devstream. (Even the title matters.)

Beyond that, it's human nature to just key in on one aspect of a well-balanced whole. In your post above, you've done the same with my two posts. It doesn't make the positive parts of my posts (or the parts where I agree with you, or the parts where I acknowledge problematic drinking) irrelevant.

11 hours ago, Lijka said:

It's not about who interrupted whom, but the fact that it happened in such intensity as it did on this stream. Again, I haven't stated anywhere that it's a regular occurence. 

My lengthy post addressed my viewpoint on the devstream, sentiments of many posters in this thread, and then your points as I perceived them. I did not attribute interruptions being rude and disrespectful to you, nor did I attribute the sentiment that it happens regularly to you. That was to make a point about context.

Being rude and disrespectful was Noamuth's point, and I addressed it at large.

I didn't begin a direct address to your points (as I saw them) until this line: "As for root problems, the OP has hinted at two issues."

With regards to drinking to unwind and loosen up, I think the latter is more important. From my perspective, everyone has their method for loosening up for a public event, and if drinking is their way, I don't think it's as simple as telling them not to drink because it's seemingly unprofessional. I think they're opening themselves up to us in a way that can unnerve most people. Being on camera, no matter how small the venue, takes some fortitude. If drinking helps, then I can't call it unprofessional.

It's only a problem, for me, if they drink too much. I didn't think they did.

I see the devstream as a casual environment. As others noted, it's also Friday. Their professional environment, to me, is their workspace. I wouldn't expect them to drink there, or when meeting fans at a con or event, or at a meeting with investors. 

11 hours ago, Lijka said:

Again, as I stated it in my initial post, I don't truly mind, but felt like expressing my oppinion on the matter. I am allowed to, no? 

In expressing our opinions, we invite others to express theirs, agree with us, and disagree.

You and I are total strangers, yet my mild criticism and disagreement (and that of other people) comes off as us chastising you for expressing your opinion, or saying you're not allowed to. You've mentioned it in two posts, yet no one is doing that [saying you can't have an opinion].

The irony is that's one reason I said I don't think a topic about this is a great idea: public criticism from strangers isn't always as easy to take as it seems, even if it comes from the right place.

I maintain that their drinking wasn't a problem for me. I enjoyed the stream, Rebecca steered the ship, as always. If I'm wrong and you're right that it is a problem, I think the criticism and crackdown on it, to be effective, needs to come from Rebecca and an internal review. That doesn't mean you can't make a topic--just that I disagree with it on principle.

But that's my view. 

Take care.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Lijka]

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

*snip*

Take care.

We see certain things very differently, which is a good thing and I appreciate you taking the time to clarify your point of view as well. All in all you make some very valid points, especially that I did to your post what I complained about being done to mine. I do apologise :) As well as the point about taking criticism. Touche!

But to the point: thank you for the reply, even if I disagree with part of it, as I said you do make some valid points and I am glad you posted them.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Lijka

[Rhekemi]

No worries, and thanks for taking the time to read, and debate. I'm sorry if I offended you in the process earlier. It was not intended.