DE: Sibear and Vauban Prime just revealed a very important problem in Warframe

[Sloan441]

20 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

*clears her throat* Stop rushing to draco and play the star chart.

There is no issue other than lazy players who just power rush to MR21 tossing away weapons and not using them.

It's can't be stated much more clearly than this.

Also, your best chance of getting significant amounts of cryotic is in excavations and not chasing oxium ospreys. As a bonus, if you're running tier 2 or 3 excavations, you'll be getting T3 keys as well, which you will need at some point.

If you want to avoid getting caught short in situations like this, you should be spending some of your time in Warframe farming all types of resources. Again, it's back to the 7Ps. Plan ahead and farm smart and these little surprises won't affect you all that much.

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, renleech said:

When Trinity prime got released, systems demanded (and still do) a lot of cryotic. Does no one remember?

And if you are farming void keys.. You are likely getting Cryotic doing Excavations. I had plenty of the stuff as did most people only a vocal few whined about it.

[Lactamid]

*nvm*

 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Lactamid
wrong post

[Madway7]

1 minute ago, Tsoe said:

FFS the game need to keep rolling

if everything was fine to get in 1 day , i dont see any reason why ppl would use real money to buy weapons

The least they could do with the changes is let the Excavators scale in their health/shields.

[(XBOX)Trigger Is Dead]

I feel like that Vauban Prime should get a lower amount of materials to craft.. I can understand the Nitain, however the oxium really kills me. I think instead of 7,000 it should be halved. Due to it being very difficult for a person like me who doesn't play the game everyday and tries his best to grind as much as I can. Sibear's amount of cryotic is absolutely crazy, 30000? It gets really hard on the new players to achieve their goal. DE please reduce the amount of materials needed for Vauban Prime and Sibear. If your going to make Vauban be such a grind you why aren't the other primes hard to get? It doesn't make any sense.

Edited May 19, 2016 by (XB1)Trigger Is Dead

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

4 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

And what made DE decide to think about buffing the Oxium drops?

I wasn't a player back then so I wouldn't know.... but I'm still guessing public outcry. 

 

i was not active on the forums back then, but i can imagine the community was not thrilled about it. but DE has learned from that slip up and has since made oxium a reliably farm able resource. and now you can decrease the size of your dojo

[SilvaDreams]

Just now, (XB1)Trigger Is Dead said:

I feel like that Vauban Prime should get a lower amount of materials to craft.. I can understand the Nitain, however the oxium really kills me. I think instead of 7,000 it should be halved. Due to it being very difficult for a person like me who doesn't play the game everyday and tries his best to grind as much as I can. Sibear's amount of cryotic is absolutely crazy, 30000? It gets really hard on the new players to achieve their goal. DE please reduce the amount of materials needed for Vauban Prime and Sibear.

By the time a new player will be able to craft Sibear, the yshould have that amount unless they got fast tracked by Taxi-ing through bosses.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, (XB1)Trigger Is Dead said:

I feel like that Vauban Prime should get a lower amount of materials to craft.. I can understand the Nitain, however the oxium really kills me. I think instead of 7,000 it should be halved. Due to it being very difficult for a person like me who doesn't play the game everyday and tries his best to grind as much as I can. Sibear's amount of cryotic is absolutely crazy, 30000? It gets really hard on the new players to achieve their goal. DE please reduce the amount of materials needed for Vauban Prime and Sibear.

They already halved the oxium from 14k they almost certainly aren't going to cut it again. I suggest cerberus, Pluto. You'll find tons of oxium there.

[jinxeverything]

3 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

It's can't be stated much more clearly than this.

Also, your best chance of getting significant amounts of cryotic is in excavations and not chasing oxium ospreys. As a bonus, if you're running tier 2 or 3 excavations, you'll be getting T3 keys as well, which you will need at some point.

If you want to avoid getting caught short in situations like this, you should be spending some of your time in Warframe farming all types of resources. Again, it's back to the 7Ps. Plan ahead and farm smart and these little surprises won't affect you all that much.

This guy get it.

We farm to use not collect and some stuff takes time to farm, if you stacked them up you won't have an issue at all.

I have 45 Nitain with me, why? I grabbed them whenever i see them which means spending 20 on Booben is non issue to me, why? have enough and will keep on farming.

This game is about farming, if you don't then the issue is with you not the game, if you don't have the time to farm everything then take it easy and slow, you don't need everything right away day 1 and if you DO want them day 1 then fork over the cash!!

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Trigger Is Dead said:

I feel like that Vauban Prime should get a lower amount of materials to craft.. I can understand the Nitain, however the oxium really kills me. I think instead of 7,000 it should be halved. Due to it being very difficult for a person like me who doesn't play the game everyday and tries his best to grind as much as I can. Sibear's amount of cryotic is absolutely crazy, 30000? It gets really hard on the new players to achieve their goal. DE please reduce the amount of materials needed for Vauban Prime and Sibear. If your going to make Vauban be such a grind you why aren't the other primes hard to get? It doesn't make any sense.

please see my previous comment about Zephyr as shown below

 

"May i direct your attention to the friendly frame Zephyr.

Before the change to Oxium ospreys drop quantity, and before oxium way buyable in the market, you would get 1-3 oxium per osprey. 

Say you were in the unfortunate situation of being in a storm clan (max of 100 members) but only 5 or 8 of the members are actually active, because i've been there. the base research for Zephyr is 200 for the bp and 20 for each other part. the resource multiplayer for a storm clan is x100, making the requirements now 20,000 for the bp and 2,000 for each part. 

can you imaging how effing unbearable that was to farm? this is nothing compared to that BS.

but please continue to cry and whine about not having sibear and Vauban P on day one because farming for mats is that bad"

Edited May 19, 2016 by (PS4)Elctrcstel

[Joel_The_Jackle]

The only build requirement I don't like in any item is nitain...cryotic and oxium are pretty straight forward and I can log on for one hour a night and grind away and accomplish my build...but I gotta pray to RNGesus that a nitain alert shows up in my play time. If it dropped of a unit, any unit, even a relatively rare unit it wouldn't be a problem. I would shut up and go to farming. And I'm not bitter...I'll just work the mechanic how it is, pile up my nitain as I go inbetween farming my other stuff...just wish it was a more reliable drop.

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, Joel_The_Jackle said:

The only build requirement I don't like in any item is nitain...cryotic and oxium are pretty straight forward and I can log on for one hour a night and grind away and accomplish my build...but I gotta pray to RNGesus that a nitain alert shows up in my play time. If it dropped of a unit, any unit, even a relatively rare unit it wouldn't be a problem. I would shut up and go to farming. And I'm not bitter...I'll just work the mechanic how it is, pile up my nitain as I go inbetween farming my other stuff...just wish it was a more reliable drop.

You know it can be obtained the sabotage caches right? Rather low chance but it is possible,

[Madway7]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Elctrcstel said:

i was not active on the forums back then, but i can imagine the community was not thrilled about it. but DE has learned from that slip up and has since made oxium a reliably farm able resource. and now you can decrease the size of your dojo

Do you remember how long it took before they buffed the drop amount?

Btw I don't see your point in bringing a past issue back up...

I probably need better confirmation to say this, but so far it seems to me that public outcry is somewhat healthy in letting DE know what's too much.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Madway7

[xiaodenden]

I think the problem is more like people want the latest shiny now now now.  They're too impatient to find the parts, to collect the resources, and to build the frame/weapon, and if they don't want to put in the time and effort, they are more than welcome to buy them with plats or real money.  That's how DE makes money.  I'm a fairly casual player and, except for when I first started the game, I never really run out of resources needed to build frames/weapons.  I don't even farm resources.  I get plenty simply by playing the game (clearing the star chart, doing syndicate missions, doing various alerts/sorties, etc) and not simply doing Draco or Void all the time.  When Wukong and nitain extract were introduced, we the clan were diligent in doing the alerts to get enough extracts to start research.  Now if nitain extract alert pops up, I would do it knowing that there will always be more things that require nitain extract.  When Sibear was released, I already have more than twice the cryotics needed to build the thing.  I haven't started farming Vauban Prime parts, but I have way more enough oxium, nitain extract, and cryotics to build him when I finally get all his parts.

People really need to be patient and just keep playing the game.  Since I don't farm at all and I go at my own pace, I don't really feel the grind at all.  I guess I'm too much of a casual, lol.

[PsionicSt0rm]

Here is my thought on the development of these items.

Concerning Vauban Prime, his high Alterium Cost and (in general) his high material cost is probably there to offset the fact that Vauban himself is a pain in the &#! to get. If the costs for Vauban Prime where LOWER than the "cost" of getting Vauban, then they have severely shot them selves in the metaphorical Tenno foot by making their own market item USELESS. 

There are two ways to act on this "issue":
              1) One way is to make Vauban Prime harder to get than Vauban Prime. This can be done the way it is now (with high resource costs) or perhaps by making him more difficult to acquire (arguably what has happened with his drop tables)
              2) The other solution is to make Vauban easier to get to allow Vauban Prime to have his costs lessened as a result. This could be from reducing his market price or by making his alerts appear more frequently.

Both ways have their own flaws. Making Vauban Prime harder to acquire means that veterans feel this effect much less than non-veterans have. However, reducing the value of the Warframe can leave people with buyers remorse, or some semblance related to that.

With the Sibear, the above stated does not really apply to this situation. It can be considered that the Sibear is an incredibly niche item. the Weapon itself is a hammer of dense Cryotic, It would make sense that the cost of it should reflect that "property". I can see how the cost now is a bit high, but it reflects the lore given by the weapon.

The cost of the resource in relation to the lore of the weapon is certainly subjective, but in my opinion, that cost is not too high that it becomes EXCLUSIVE to others. It is a heavy investment for non-veterans but for veterans, it's cost is still enough that they know that it is a hammer made of Cryotic.

I feel like this gap is present but it only seems expanded from the previous choices that DE made. Perhaps this is a sign that items in the future will have significantly higher costs, but it should be in relation to their originals(concerning Primes) or their Lore (concerning weapons like Sibear).

[BlackCoMerc]

45 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

*clears her throat* Stop rushing to draco and play the star chart.

There is no issue other than lazy players who just power rush to MR21 tossing away weapons and not using them.

I'm a relative "new player" having only started in November and I have had no issues making anything because I worked my way through the planets mostly completeing them and seeing the need to collect resources for later.

And you can't claim I'm a no lifer because I work 40+ hours a week and play maybe 4-5 hours a day at best.. and casual player if you would.

I see your point. On the other hand...4-5 hours per day...every day (as you make it sound like here) is a LOT more time than a WHOLE LOT of people have to give to ONE game. Its certainly more time than I would spend on a single game in my library...and that is before you get to Netflix, time with family and friends, school work, kids (I dont have any but most people do) and other real life stuff.

So no...4-5 hours per day, daily, is NOT casual gaming. Sorry. 

That said...I think a LOT of people need to remember that Vauban Prime is not a frame DE sees as something people who are brand new should be able to earn right away. Vauban Prime, if not paid for outright by Prime Access, is intended as a late game, long term goal. Something for people who either already have the resources needed, or are willing to put in the time to get them.

HOWEVER...this is a FLAWED PERSPECTIVE on the part of the developer. Due to the arbitrary limited time nature of Primes before they are unnecessarily vaulted and made unavailable (except for that cash-generating Plat trade, dontcha know) making ANY prime item a LONG TERM goal in Warframe is blatantly unfair to new players.

[Madway7]

3 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

You know it can be obtained the sabotage caches right? Rather low chance but it is possible,

According to the legends it is possible....

[GreyEnneract]

It's funny because Vauban isn't even worth the Oxium.

He's still too squishy for his theme, and even though the concept of the Bounce/2nd power change is interesting, at the end of the day people are still just going to run around and spam Bastille because it trumps everything else he has.

The Sibear is at least a top tier melee, though I agree 30k cryotic is too much.

[PrVonTuckIII]

This guy's got it figured out.

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

I see your point. On the other hand...4-5 hours per day...every day (as you make it sound like here) is a LOT more time than a WHOLE LOT of people have to give to ONE game. Its certainly more time than I would spend on a single game in my library...and that is before you get to Netflix, time with family and friends, school work, kids (I dont have any but most people do) and other real life stuff.

So no...4-5 hours per day, daily, is NOT casual gaming. Sorry. 

That said...I think a LOT of people need to remember that Vauban Prime is not a frame DE sees as something people who are brand new should be able to earn right away. Vauban Prime, if not paid for outright by Prime Access, is intended as a late game, long term goal. Something for people who either already have the resources needed, or are willing to put in the time to get them.

HOWEVER...this is a FLAWED PERSPECTIVE on the part of the developer. Due to the arbitrary limited time nature of Primes before they are unnecessarily vaulted and made unavailable (except for that cash-generating Plat trade, dontcha know) making ANY prime item a LONG TERM goal in Warframe is blatantly unfair to new players.

Well they also have a year if not more to obtain the parts, and then get the resources whenever. I started in November and I'm already MR18 (Technically 19 I just have to do the test) and the only thing I'm missing are primes some of which like Ember were vaulted before I ever started playing.

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

It's funny because Vauban isn't even worth the Oxium.

He's still too squishy for his theme, and even though the concept of the Bounce/2nd power change is interesting, at the end of the day people are still just going to run around and spam Bastille because it trumps everything else he has.

The Sibear is at least a top tier melee, though I agree 30k cryotic is too much.

Another things is how he throws the balls, they fly too slowly for such fast paced game. When it comes to run an' gun he is pretty... low key. But when it comes to defend a point, he is great.

[SilvaDreams]

Just now, Venom-Snake said:

Another things is how he throws the balls, they fly too slowly for such fast paced game. When it comes to run an' gun he is pretty... low key. But when it comes to defend a point, he is great.

Well.. Ya that is sort of his thing, he's a tactical frame. He locks down areas and holds them.

[Kastrel717]

1 hour ago, (PS4)B3tusHammer said:

Honestly I feel for you, I really do. However that being said I don't see what the huge problem is.  I sat down one weekend when I had a few hours to spare from life and worked to farm out the 30k cryotic. It was a pain sure at first. I was running them solo, then messaged a few of my warframe community friends and the grind became enjoyable.  The grind is what you make of it.  I don't think having such high resource requirements is a problem, gives you something to work towards. The problem is player attitudes that everything should be easy to get. All good things come in time as they say. 

Well its not that we are saying that its the problem its just that if we dont say that something is too much DE will just keep making things like weapons or warframes even harder to get and even harder to build them there must be a line of how much some things can be hard to get.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Kastrel717

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

Why do we need resource sinks to begin with?  So what if a vet has 1 billion cryotic and nothing to spend it on.  It's not a justification for having high mats costs.

Also, can ppl please stop with the false dichotomy that if someone doesn't like the mat cost of an item that it must mean that person wants everything handed to them right this instant, right now?  It does nothing to further the discussion.  It's only said as a shaming tactic to insult and shut down discussion and not at all appropriate.  You can disagree over the merits of someone's argument without instantly labeling that person and whiny and entitled.

[S0V3REiGN]

3 minutes ago, Kastrel717 said:

Well its not that we are saying that its the problem its just that if we dont say that something is too much DE will just keep making things like weapons or warframes even harder to get and even harder to build them there must be a line of how much some things can be hard to get.

Well they should make somethings that are hard to get just not everything. However, every single time one shows up the community flips their sh!t.