Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Misgenesis]

Please consider removing LoS check from Magnetize's explosion. Even the smallest obstacle can block it from doing anything, especially in the void. Its annoying seeing as how Bombards can kill you through a wall but Magnetize doesnt do anything.

Its range is enough of a downside i believe.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Misgenesis

[ograzzt]

12 hours ago, shirokoi said:

The REAL change this Mag rework needs:

1. Change Pull's name to: "The Force"
2. Tap allows us to pull enemies
   1. By the way, it'd be nice if they landed in a neat pile in front of Mag, like the good old days. It'd synergize well with Magnetize.
3. Holding the button allows us to throw them into the a** end of nowhere.

I like this, but I want to expand your idea. Pulling should also collect shards from across the map (they may float around Mag after this, and maybe give her some kind of defense bonus). Holding down 1 will release all gathered shards into choosen direction. This will allow us to manually fuel her bubbles with shards. 

Also I think Crush can be used for early detonation of magnetized bubbles on demand (maybe only if targeted enemy inside bubble is already dead).

[Zyrgi]

I'll be short with my feedback:

1. Flat numbers for abilities are always going to be inferior compared to the abilities that scale in a game where endless missions are a thing and it's pretty common to come across a high level enemy. I'm not asking to bring "Press 2 to kill all corpus" back, but the armor and shield removal should have been % based with power str affecting its effectiveness.

2. Polarize is now really great, I like that not all enemies get pulled in without the ability to resist the force of the pull. Sometimes you get 1shot inside the center of it so, no idea if it was meant to be so.

3. Magntize - good for star chart, mediocre at sorties, meh at endless missions.

4. Crush - I think pre-update it used to be able to control enemies more effectively, so it seems that Crush was pretty much destroyed in its usefulness.

[Shockwave-]

I just have to ask, in a game with what, 25 frames now? what was so bad about having a frame that was a specialized corpus killer but didn't do that well against the other factions. What is the value in even having the goal of "giving her more tools against the other factions". In fact why WOULDN'T the Tenno have a corpus killing specialist on their roster?

Also what is the value in this type of ability synergy. It seems that frames should have individual abilities that can work well together but DE is on this path to make sure you have to use all your abilities together instead of just having 4 useful abilities than can be used in different situations and letting the player decide how to combine them. Going from a press 2 to win meta to a press 1, then 2, then 3 meta (or whatever order) on frames like saryn or mag isn't "fun" it's more like work. Powers should be simple to understand and use and the skill should be knowing when and how to use them, not complex interactions of powers that require each other to be more effective. Some -powers are becoming so complex that it's impossible to even play the frame DE released unless you read a wiki guide from a non DE source to understand the abilities you are using. Some are so complex, taking some mods from weapons but not others etc etc that players will simply find the best setup to use those powers and do that (no on the spot creativity or synergizing). This is the illusion of synergy or interactivity when it really ends to be simply a different but narrowly defined set of key presses instead of one.

 

Seems like DE has decided that jack of all trades frames that are good against all factions are "better" than frames that are more limited or more focused.

Seems like DE has decided that needing to cast multiple powers in succession (synergizing) is a good thing and preferable to casting 1 power for 1 effect

While DE seems to be coming from the perspective that both of these things are obviously and unquestionably "Good" I'm not sure I agree.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

Pull is fine - the Greedy Pull LoS nerf needs to be undone. Since when do you need to SEE the metal in order for a magnet to work?
Magnetize - seems like it works well. Does the AoE explosion really need to be LoS? So now you have to SEE what you're blowing up too? What's with the LoS stuff on Mag?
Polarize - it obviously needs to scale unless Armor scaling rate is going to be EXTREMELY reduced.
Crush - never really liked it...but the CC is cool. I think it should do massive damage when used with Magnetize, but it's okay

I will likely never use her if this rework stands as is. Everything she does (possibly outside of building strictly for Magnetize) can be done better by another frame.

Edited May 31, 2016 by (PS4)SupeBoss

[continue]

26 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

 This is the illusion of synergy or interactivity when it really ends to be simply a different but narrowly defined set of key presses instead of one.

I definitely agree that coding in mechanics that directly interact with other abilities rather than thinking about what each of those abilities fundamentally do to affect gameplay and how they interact is extremely lazy, mindless buzzword adherence. Thoughtful pull-magnetize synergy would allow you to pull them into a group and magnetize the area (or have an allied frame use an area of effect ability), not rely on some shrapnel gimmick that only mag can capitalize on.

Not that you can't have that gimmick, but that gimmick isn't really synergy.

Edited May 31, 2016 by continue

[(PSN)lufyalp]

Hi,

Started playing in February or something, haven't seriously played any other game since then. I'm hooked.

 

Mag is definitely one of my favs. Corpus killer. That feeling of just overwhelming power, hitting Shield polarize and bam!  (almost) every enemy goes down.

I freaking love Mag. I've been playing her like crazy, because when this so-called rework hits consoles, I won't get that feeling again.

Invested a lot of time on her, only to be psyched and then sad about her rework.

Please see the suggestions below:

- Pull: instead of pulling enemies towards Mag, why not have her pull the weapons of her enemies hands? I also like the thought of having 2 abilities here, push/pull.

- Magnetize: let us choose where to place the bubble; if enemy bullets pass through it, enemy bullets should do damage to all targets inside the bubble

- Polarize: scaling % as enemies get tougher, fully depletes shields and armor; grants overshields to Mag and allies (if they're inside the wave); depends on PS

- Bone crush: animation takes too long, and it needs to scale against enemy level as well, if not it's still a poor ultimate ability.

 

Passive: 50% chance of deflecting damage done to Mag shields or 50% chance of resisting magnetic/electricity damage

Edited May 31, 2016 by (PS4)lufyalp

[soundtea]

1 hour ago, Shockwave- said:

I just have to ask, in a game with what, 25 frames now? what was so bad about having a frame that was a specialized corpus killer but didn't do that well against the other factions. What is the value in even having the goal of "giving her more tools against the other factions". In fact why WOULDN'T the Tenno have a corpus killing specialist on their roster?

Because Mag was honestly EXTREMELY overpowered against said faction. Any corpus mission with Mag in it was just her pressing 2 every so often and killing every single corpus in the room, with only Techs and Fusion MOAs alive with hardly anything left no matter what the level. Just stick a rapid fire weapon to pop bubbles and she could trivialize every Corpus mission in existance no matter the level. You didn't even need a corrpupted mod on her to turn the Corpus into a complete nonthreat.

 

Do you really think any PvE game would leave in a "murder faction in room" button forever?

[tnccs215]

39 minutes ago, soundtea said:

Because Mag was honestly EXTREMELY overpowered against said faction. Any corpus mission with Mag in it was just her pressing 2 every so often and killing every single corpus in the room, with only Techs and Fusion MOAs alive with hardly anything left no matter what the level. Just stick a rapid fire weapon to pop bubbles and she could trivialize every Corpus mission in existance no matter the level. You didn't even need a corrpupted mod on her to turn the Corpus into a complete nonthreat.

 

Do you really think any PvE game would leave in a "murder faction in room" button forever?

people too often mistake "specialized" with "overpowered".

 

[motorfirebox]

1 minute ago, tnccs215 said:

people too often mistake "specialized" with "overpowered".

 

It doesn't matter what you want to call it, she wasn't a balanced frame.

[tnccs215]

1 minute ago, motorfirebox said:

It doesn't matter what you want to call it, she wasn't a balanced frame.

I know. That is what I am saying.

For the first time since forever, I'm having fun with Mag. She isn't a "sit n'press 2" anymore. She is tactical. Requires though. Crush to CC the enemies, magnetize to protect yourself and kill them, polarize to make them,more vulnerable (and shards), Pull to get more for the bubble. She requires awareness, thought. And she rewards you for it.

Granted, she needs some tunning. Polarize becomes borderline irrelevant the more you climb, pull should give shrapnels and make enemies pile at your feet, Crush feels a bit bland-- but is ok-- and magnetize needs to be blow-up-able at will. But she's better-- much better-- and that's what matters.

[Replacement]

If I were to read off her abilities and what they did to a fellow gamer who has never played Warframe, she would sound impressive.  The mind would race with possibilities and permutations of the tactics this would-be Tenno could pull off!

But Pull still ragdolls everyone like there's no tomorrow.  

Suggestions:

• Easy: Pull cannot remove enemies from Magnetize
• Moderate: Any enemy Pulled through Magnetize stops in the Magnetize field (they're basically treated like bullets - they ragdoll to the center)
• Harder: any Pull that includes a Magnetize field in its area instead Pulls towards Magnetize
• Time-consuming-but-I-know-you-have-the-tech: Pull key charges up like a bow.  Use the Rhino Charge graphic in reverse, and stretch it out.  As you hold down the key, the width of the cone gets wider, the damage increases, and the magnitude of the yoink increases.  So as you hold down the key, you have this line appearing under your crosshair that gets wider, to indicate charge level and let you eyeball the width of the cone.  Ultimately, the goal here is that an uncharged Pull yanks enemies about 3/4ths of the way to you, to help you position them into Magnetize fields, or to position a new magnetize where you want it
• Dead-simple-but-boring: change Magnetize to be able to be cast in a point of space.  I'm having a lot of issues placing one in any sort of tactical location.

Do not take all of these suggestions.  But 2-3 ought to suffice to actually make her play the way she sounds on paper: "Yank people to where you want them, then set up death traps."

Note:  This post is not intended as an exhaustive fix.  It gives her natural synergy between her 1 and 2, and improves 2's ability to make use of shrapnel.  Her 3 and 4 still need another pass.

[Marine027]

After todays Sortie i have to say, great balancing, first nerfing several Frames in the ground and instead of waiting with that till the enemy scaling is done aswell you not helped the game at all, i rarely see a Mag now anymore, lvl 100 excavation against Corpus, very fun to die trough it guys, Frosts shield not holding long and excavators not scale at all still getting one shotted by most enemys, same for Frosts shield  and the frames itself even if you have alot Power strength in it, high lag caused by the amount of enemys that you barely scratch after awhile and jsut end up running ot a excavator to get like 12 cryotic if you are lucky 20 since you can't even kill enemys with a cell anymore wtih all those nullifiers running around not to speak of even holding a excavator at all with several bursas spamming there attcks.

While old mag not evne had nuked those anymore at all at that lvl, i know that, i used her in such but still was hard since nullifiers protected there groups and Bursas or Corpus Tech weren't even affected anymore much of her old Polarize, i can't imagine that her new magnetizs makes much differecne to such amount of enemys sicne that will get nullified aswell anyway and her polarize depeltes shields barely at all now since flat damge.

The nullifiers and the oens who block abiliys, forgot there names, weren't those, again, made jsut for escpecily that, agasint overusing powers giving the enemys a good chance, they did with old Mag make them already a hard challange still but she was spezialiced on them only and now do you evne think she can hodl her ground against grineer or infected at such endgame lvl? I doubt that since her energy costs are so high now and you are suppsoed to spam then a bit, Magnetize you can cast on 4 Enemys but costs still alot energy, Polarize to help players if they get hit by it at all now and the flat shield and armor damage by shields of like 5000 strength you do like 500, so only 1/10 of it, Pull energy by kill won't happen at that lvl and Crush is sitll uselss like it was before since the extra damge at magnetised enemys are barely noticable aswell on those lvls.

I barely can kill anything anymore with her, Magnetize is nice but can waste your energy if that one you cast it on dies at this moment, then it just never appears, Polarize as said the travel time, duration, range now al laffects it but it barley hits anythign in a big room even if i mod range and duration it sitll has barely range now it seems, it seems shorter then pull which also whould be atleast nice going trough doors if you use it and a door closes on you. I can't just imagine why you had to change her liek that, this was not a simple nerf, it was a complete destruction of her and don't come me with "combining her pwoers she sitll does decent damage" yes on mid lvl content maybe but sorties you can now forget, while Ash for example still Bladestorms everything regardelss the lvl and faction and he was not one of the first frames to get a "Rework"?

I know he becomes his "Rework" aswell, but why has this to be so split much, first the frames not  all at once even and the enemys last? Like this is on purpose letting players suffer before it gets rebalanced? You can't expect balance if you split your "Reworks" like that around, all or nothing right? Patch is bigger then yes, better then this mess you guys made. Mag may be still decent against other factions aswell now i tried that but i still be better with just using my gun and get in cover without usign one single ability now on her, she already is squishy and all her Abiltiys has atelast one small cast time, which can be deadly on her, which i have to mention, i was one shooted by a Grineer Ballista, which ignored Mags high shield completly on a lvl 28-30 mission.

Overall as many peopel for osem reaons like here rework, i personaly hate it, yes agian we get it, she was Overpowered but still only Corpus why not nerved teh damge or amount of enemys able to get hit by it? Why not such, no, you had to nerf her abilitys to the ground like on the other frames, nerfing the "overused" abiltys. Now people will use the next more efficent power like magnetize.

Guess why people overused certain powers, because the other pwoers were never as nearly powerful or useful. Instead of boosting the uselss pweors to soemthing who gives players more variety to use you just nerf it so it has not even a palce in the game anymore. This is not a MMO where the classes need to be that balanced, balance need to exist but Mag was a faction based Frame, which i liked, what was wrong having certain specifications on Frames that were clearly created for such purpose, why do we need to make them "Allstars" while in reallity can't do anything right anymore.

 

Filling the teams shield? Forget it stay near her if you want that and camp as you are supposed to, oh wait did you not claim the game sohudl go away fromcamping? This is the total opposite same for Trinitys nerf in range.

Want to strip enemys of tehre shileds becasue they have enoguh health anyway liek Corpus Tech while trash aroudn it dies anyway like it is suppsoed to be? Forget this aswell, while you cast it only removes a small shield part of them while the Tech shoots you in you small animation killing you aswell instantly. They did taht before sitll you know.

Want now to remoce armor with this new shiny change on Grineer? Ops the short range makes you have to get closer to strip them of like 1/7 of there armor with those energy costs and the next flamtrower melting your Mags helmet of.

 

Did anyone of DE really re-think this before this got released at all? She does suck now and you not want to admit it and instead of reacting to anything we say even before the rework, we are supposed to take the change and life with it like nothing happend. You start to lose my trust DE, as much i think you do great work, this last Patch, it is just wow, a big screwup, which i admit had some good changes aswell, but the bad changes overweight the good ones.

I not want to complain, but Mag was my first frame i had when i started the game, before the whole questing introduction, before Planet nod changes and there i was able to use her against Grineer even, with the Redirection bubble atleast since she was my starter frame, but now with her suppsed good change making her good against Grineer aswell i barely notice the supposed "efficiency" on them and i still can shoot my way trough them insted of using the suppsoed useful powers now.

 

She can't hold her ground anymore now against anytihng, the only tihng that made her stand out was her usefullnes agaisnt Corpus, OP but as said not nuked anymore, as most seem to claim becasue they probably used forma to polarize her to no end which i didn't i only used forma on weapons so far and was still able to use most frames in sorties normaly, at around Lvl 60-70 enemys the Polarize suppsoed nuking weared of there already, since the real threath like Bursas, Corpus Tech and Nullifiers sitll walked around freely and could one shot her.

I know they won't rechange her now, but i swear if the enemys not get scaled down properly with thos changes to adjust to this mess you will lose a high playerbase i can guarantee. Not to speak of the bugs you need to fix on her "new" powers and the "Reworks" that come to the remaining Frames.

 

[-Temp0-]

3 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

I just have to ask, in a game with what, 25 frames now? what was so bad about having a frame that was a specialized corpus killer but didn't do that well against the other factions.

Because then you won't want to bring anything else to kill Corpus obviously. And little Hydroids, Zephyrs and other crap felt bad. You actually can't have a frame now that excels in anything... unless it's infested maybe because it's infested. All frames eventually will become mediocre and will be able to deal more or less same damage to more or less all factions with the few exceptions maybe. Which will discourage players from having favourites and encourage to bring all sorts of crap even unfit ones to all sorts of missions without thinking about the roles or team composition.

It's kind of happening already, you can see people in LoR bringing mainly what they want, hosts in majority of cases don't ask for specific frames because they're 1. not sure what will even work <-> 2. Nothing works with 100% probability anymore, the most effective frames that could almost (still almost) guarantee your success were eliminated. As a result, it's almost impossible to complete normal lor (that's actually a twist, because you'd think that nightmare would be worse but it's the opposite - I guess mainly raid veterans are doing them, so the chances for success is higher) with the pubs.

[Marine027]

9 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Because then you won't want to bring anything else to kill Corpus obviously. And little Hydroids, Zephyrs and other crap felt bad. You actually can't have a frame now that excels in anything... unless it's infested maybe because it's infested. All frames eventually will become mediocre and will be able to deal more or less same damage to more or less all factions with the few exceptions maybe. Which will discourage players from having favourites and encourage to bring all sorts of crap even unfit ones to all sorts of missions without thinking about the roles or team composition.

It's kind of happening already, you can see people in LoR bringing mainly what they want, hosts in majority of cases don't ask for specific frames because they're 1. not sure what will even work <-> 2. Nothing works with 100% probability anymore, the most effective frames that could almost (still almost) guarantee your success were eliminated. As a result, it's almost impossible to complete normal lor (that's actually a twist, because you'd think that nightmare would be worse but it's the opposite - I guess mainly raid veterans are doing them, so the chances for success is higher) with the pubs.

They whould not be so left on the side against specific factions if they just could provide a better ability set since they also onyl get used for certain things right? Hydroid with his augment for looitng for example now, why not make those passvies we got now actualy mean sometihng so they grip into each other making a combination of different Frames actually mean something agaisnt all factions? Why can't Mags passive magnetize enemys feat slowing all factions for example or it providigna small shield resistance agaisnt projectiles taht way, why can't zephyr has chane to run past a enemy trwoign it it in the air as a actually useful short CC. Why can't hydroid like maybe boost single enemy target ablitys give a boost or os, liek a moral boost since he is some sort of Captain in my eyes Why can't Volt overall givea smal leenrgy orb pickup boost only minor one, why can't Oberon just provied a better healing maybe giving a damage resistance to hsi team from his passive to compare with Trinity so they are equal atleast? Giving them something like taht to make them equal and used more in different situaitons and not only the same situations.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Marine027

[Circle_of_Psi]

38 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

-Snip-

I have to agree with my good friend here. Alot of points here really shine my own feelings as well. Heres the thing and not meny players kown about this, but DK, Yes DE one of your "Official Warframe Partners" said this:.

"Viver was a lone Corpus Interception tile set on Eris. People used to use it as a glorified loot cave for Syndicate rep since, back when it first came out, the reputation was a pain in the buttz to get.

 "In response to this, instead of getting rid of Viver or reworking interceptions, they nerfed Excalibur, Trinity, and Mag into the ground since they were the most common farm frames. In response to a rather large outcry from the community, DE rolled back the nerfs and legit apologized for the blunder of a patch. 

So, your telling me you REPEATED this same flaw of logic and this time you people go on your way and try to say "Please accept our experimentation". Oh yeah?, is that excaly what you said before?, I don't remember!.

On top of that, I whuold like to qeastion, why didn't you do NOT scale the levels and enemies down properly IN THE FIRST PLACE?!, THIS is a-hole lot better then nerfing frames to their nothing of use or valve.

As a Ash Main, I agree with my pals points here, Hes OP, and his bladestrom needs to be changed, Am I worried that he will nerfed too?, Yes of course I am, Im worried that you'll do something so unnecessary that I will no longer have any use of Playing Ash. Along with this "Limbo Rework" that is so said: "Coming this week." 

While it may sound stupid in some ears, and may fall to Deaf Ears, as well, it is a FACT, that I can assure you, YOU WILL lose THE high player base you have now, I can 100% guarantee. If you don't?, well then I'll be a fool. But its already said, Rob (AGGP) Tactical Potato & DK all agree that this update was good in its own rights, and some where changes necessary, BUT somethings whent TO FAR.

I strongly recommend you go back to the Viver conflict. roll back the changes, apologize and THEN work on the scaling and then give us the so fancy "Nerfs"  

 

Note: I can;t not remaber, but I think this was a lone tileset before, it got changed to Infested, but I chuold be wrong 

 

 

Edit 2: Here is a image of why I moreless think Ash & Limbo reworks are coming out, this was from the other topic, that got locked

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2016 by LegionCynex
Copy & Paste Fail

[tnccs215]

2 minutes ago, LegionCynex said:

 

 

[snip]

 

Forced to disagree.

This has nothing to do with viver.

viver was ridiculous because they made awful decisions that affect every player in order to fix an exploit made by some who abused it in order to counteract their own mistakes. A goood comparison is nullifiers, Bursas, cheesie trials... All cheese cheese-proof enemies that demand cheese for you to have a fighting chance.

Mag... Is nothing like that. Even if enemy was fixed, even if guns became more fair and balanced, Mag & inc. Would still be a problem.

Even if all that happened, mag would still be a mapwide mass murderer.

I mean, tell me: What changed for the worst in Mag besides Polarize? Everything else got better. Maybe not all got that much-- but it got. Indeed, Magnetize is a goddamn very good ability, one I'm completely in love.

The only thing that we can no longer do, is trivialize level 400 Corpus.

Have I to remind you why sorties were introduced? Why Trials-- cheese fest raids-- were introduced? Because everything else was too easy. And why was it too easy? Because we could cheese through it like a knife through butter. Even trials are the same. Too easy, too cheesy.

How can we expect them to know when enemy scaling becomes unbereable when we can kill enemies waaay past that point through Overpowered gimmicks and tileset-wide CC? How can they know when survival becomes a problem when we have frames that literally make the whole squad invincible?

That's the thing. How could they fix the scaling if we ourselves can't distinguish the point in which a frame is bad or the enemies are too strong? Cheese must be removed before those balancing issues are addressed, because it is simply impossible otherwise.

Am I being too trustful of them? Perhaps. Perhaps I'm wrong. But I'm up to give them the benefit of the doubt. Because this is not Viver. Viver changes have happened so many more times-- everytime a power nullifying enemy, an enemy that demands cheese was introduced-- they just didn't happened directly to the frames.

I honestly think this is one of the first times DE is actually attacking the root of problems. And while there are many, many problems connected to enemy scaling, weapon damage, and the mod system-- problems I believe will be addressed (they must be, lest you all will be right, and they know it)-- there are also just as many problems connected to gamebreaking, abusable powers.

And they are, finally, being fixed.

[Archwizard]

On 5/28/2016 at 5:23 PM, Archwizard said:

Magnetize is actually pretty fun and great, everything Bullet Attractor should've been. The big issue is apparently that it can cause damage to the Mag, which shouldn't exist under any circumstances. Sounds like a bug to me, though.

After more testing, found a second big issue, by playing alongside one rather than on one. Not really sure why it took me so long to notice it, since Bullet Attractor had the exact same issue:

I was running a T4D the other day on my Frost, with a very bubble-happy Mag. Problem was that the Mag would put down her massive bubbles when enemies were inside of Snow Globe, meaning we couldn't actually shoot out of the globe; it eliminated the aid the globe should have provided (as we had to step out of it to fight back), especially when enemies were no longer in the globe itself and the ability was just ticking away.
There was also a recurring issue that if a Corrupted Ancient or Nullifier was entering the fray, I couldn't shoot them because there was a Magnetize bubble 4 feet in front of them. And if an enemy walked into the bubble, my shots would do no damage to them either, until they were on the same side of it as me; the fact that the bubble pulls them is nice, but it doesn't have enough suction to keep them from leaving if they don't want to stay.
At that point, your only real strategy is just to spam radial attacks until the bubbles are gone.

It would be good if players had a way to selectively ignore the bubble when attacking (so that Magnetize doesn't just end up like a more invasive Cataclysm), or at least if the Mag had a way to detonate the bubbles themselves when they were doing more harm than good a la Freeze+Snow Globe.

If Crush could throw enemies into them and then forcibly detonate them without needing a target to die first, that'd be amazing.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Archwizard

[GreenVajene]

2 hours ago, Archwizard said:

It would be good if players had a way to selectively ignore the bubble when attacking (so that Magnetize doesn't just end up like a more invasive Cataclysm), or at least if the Mag had a way to detonate the bubbles themselves when they were doing more harm than good a la Freeze+Snow Globe.

First of all, a Mag on TxD really should just be bubbling the front door and exclusively polarizing and crushing around the pod. I mean... common sense.

But yeah, although a really great skill, MZ has some downsides which seem to exist more from a lack of polish than by design. But unlike Frost, which has a cheap fire-and-forget type skill in Freeze, all of Mag's other abilities are situational. Crush is a high-cost skill, making it a very expensive Undo button, and tying in thrown CC with potentials for huge damage sounds like something that would be nerfed within a week. Polarize of course is meant to synergize with an active, tactically-placed MZ via armor shards, and pull, if used to destroy MZs, could end up being somewhat inconvenient, especially when stacked on defense, and you end up destroying your bubble but also pulling in the entire column of leech eximus behind it right on top of you.

The simplest solution is really just to have the same MZ skill destroy the MZ bubble it's aimed at, if one is already in place.

That still leaves the problem of abuse, considering MZ can be used as a way to make Vauban's skills turn into graphics card nukers, not to mention making the people inside liable to kill themselves while being unable to shoot out of it. Considering everyone inside the bubble is otherwise completely protected from outside fire, just removing the self-damage and bizarre skill interaction bugs would be enough.

As for Crush, I still think making it a one-handed cast you can use on the move would justify its being an Ult.

[Archwizard]

41 minutes ago, GreenVajene said:

The simplest solution is really just to have the same MZ skill destroy the MZ bubble it's aimed at, if one is already in place.

That would only be possible if you wanted to cancel the effect while the target was still alive. 
Unlike Freeze, Magnetize is a hitscan effect that requires a target to be cast in the first place. If the target dies before the Magnetize bubble ends, thereby leaving the bubble active for the rest of the Duration, you'd have to try aiming at empty space to cancel the remaining sphere, which could easily be confused with trying to aim at an enemy within or on the other side of the sphere. Targeting would be a nightmare.

41 minutes ago, GreenVajene said:

and tying in thrown CC with potentials for huge damage sounds like something that would be nerfed within a week.

And yet it's an effect that you would be able to simulate now within 1 Magnetize and 4 Pulls or less (potentially covering a much bigger area), rather than 1 Magnetize and 1 Crush for the same cost. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Archwizard

[JesterTheNight]

Mag's Magnetize should be poppable, be it by holding 2 down or maybe by using Polarize (popping all the bubbles in its range).

[Gilmaesh]

6 hours ago, Marine027 said:

After todays Sortie i have to say, great balancing, first nerfing several Frames in the ground and instead of waiting with that till the enemy scaling is done aswell you not helped the game at all, i rarely see a Mag now anymore, lvl 100 excavation against Corpus, very fun to die trough it guys, Frosts shield not holding long and excavators not scale at all still getting one shotted by most enemys, same for Frosts shield  and the frames itself even if you have alot Power strength in it, high lag caused by the amount of enemys that you barely scratch after awhile and jsut end up running ot a excavator to get like 12 cryotic if you are lucky 20 since you can't even kill enemys with a cell anymore wtih all those nullifiers running around not to speak of even holding a excavator at all with several bursas spamming there attcks.

today's excavation sortie 3 corpus :

Spoiler

in other words, i don't know how you play but you must be doing something wrong

Edited June 1, 2016 by Gilmaesh

[PB_Miracle]

I really like the Mag rework. I think switching her place in the game and her limits is really nice, since previous mag was Broken AF. Alright, so her 2nd looks to be her go-to skill. and her 3rd is like.. i nice kinda bonus to her. I still think that she should be slightly buffed to make her completely viable. For example, i think you should make her pull only be able to throw the enemies around inside the bubble that is her 2. Not Pull them out of it. Therefore i also think the pull of her second should be stronger so the chance of an enemy escaping is really low. Also, i personally think that her 3rd ability should either stun the enemies upon hit (like for 1.5 seconds or so) or be just stronger (scaling with % based armour strip.) or just do more "damage". her ult? i don't know... seems quite good ^^ maybe make it synergize in another way than damage? that would be nice

[GreenVajene]

47 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Magnetize is a hitscan effect that requires a target to be cast in the first place. If the target dies before the Magnetize bubble ends, thereby leaving the bubble active for the rest of the Duration, you'd have to try aiming at empty space to cancel the remaining sphere, which could easily be confused with trying to aim at an enemy within or on the other side of the sphere. Targeting would be a nightmare.

And yet it's an effect that you would be able to simulate now within 1 Magnetize and 4 Pulls or less

This seems to be overcomplicating something simple and subsequently oversimplifying something complicated.

First of all, I'm pretty sure MZ is not hitscan based upon a point within your reticule, as it as often as not targets things you aren't even aiming at. Sometimes, even when you do aim at something and that target dies, it will trigger instead on an adjacent enemy. As for canceling, If you are inside an MZ, canceling it would probably be a high priority, and being at any point inside it should likely cancel it if you hit the skill again. If you are aiming at the surface of an MZ bubble and hit MZ, you cancel that bubble. Then if you want to MZ something behind that, the bubble's canceled, MZ again. Assuming this all costs energy, MZ costs 50, not 100, and cancelling a bubble with the same skill could even be a no-cost action.

Simple.

What's not simple is using pull to pull targets into an MZ from outside of it, meaning positioning yourself so that your pull range makes them stop in the bubble without overshooting, as many times as it takes to cover the FoV the enemies are attacking from. You'd also have to time it so that once all the enemies are inside the bubble, the bubble destroys itself, while doing multiplied damage to things inside it and huge AOE damage at its destruction-range. Then try doing it so that when you have more than one MZ bubble up you're pulling enemies to each one independently and setting them all off simultaneously.

I fail to see how the latter is not overly complicated to the point that reducing all of the work to a single button press would be grossly significant.

[RealPandemonium]

On 5/28/2016 at 8:23 PM, Archwizard said:

Magnetize is actually pretty fun and great, everything Bullet Attractor should've been (although I do miss the auto-aiming function, but that was doing more harm in the wrong hands than good in the right ones)

What auto-aiming function are you referring to?