Mag Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Djego27]

35 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

In case you missed the changes to Mag in 18.13.2:

 

Any ETA when we can get a Mag rework that actually fixes getting shot at the edges of BA by units in the BA, crush that actually works on all CC ticks instead of just the last one under lag, that comes with a BA that just switches targets and then depletes when it runs out of targets instead of DOT mechanics and blocking gunfire while penalizing duration builds, that removes the double standards when it comes to over shield and anti armor augment mods compared to every single other frame in the game, a fix to low level spawning so we can have a working self gpull again instead of that LOS mod that nobody uses since, a shield polarise that actually does remove shields by percentage again, does percentage scaling damage and a pull that we can toggle to push?

Edited June 2, 2016 by Djego27

[Sirabot]

I find mag's new abilities to be unintuitive, and complicated for the sake of it. Shards are non sense.

Pull doesn't reliably pull enemies. Half the time they just stand there and keep shooting me. It's damage is pitiful.

Crush's damage? Does it do damage? It kills low level enemies before the casting animation ends but does absolutely nothing to enemies level 25+.

Add a single nullifier or Ancient healer to the mix and Mag's kit completely falls apart.

Magnetize stacking while spamming Polarize in corridors will be the new mag cheese. I know, my friend and I went 60 minutes in survival doing this.

 

With the way Frost and Excalibur were reworked I figured we'd be in for a treat but so far it's just been disappointment after disappointment. Players that do play Saryn mostly run a single build that has negative power efficiency that requires EV and they spam for it. I'm not sure about Volt yet, but I have a feeling his kit is going to feel just as awkward with it's attempt at "synergy".

 

Edit: Oh and Magnetize still hurts you if you throw Hiku Primes into it with concealed explosives. It randomly and unexpectedly damages you for the duration of the Orb.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Sirabot
To clarify and add on

[Hypernaut1]

shouldnt crush get the energy orb passive instead? it would definitely make that move more satisfying to pull off knowing that you'll potentially squeeze some orbs out of the enemies crushed bodies.

[ImNotACatTrustMe]

And now Magnetize+Crush combo nerfed too in 18.13.3. Why they want so much to remove Mag from list of usable frames?!

[Soup2504]

4 minutes ago, ImNotACatTrustMe said:

And now Magnetize+Crush combo nerfed too in 18.13.3. Why they want so much to remove Mag from list of usable frames?!

Jesus christ it was a bug. It wasn't supposed to happen in the first place. It didn't happen at all until the update where they fixed magnetize dealing self damage. This "combo" was a bug.............. and bugs get fixed.

[TheLexiConArtist]

9 hours ago, Djego27 said:

I even lowered the duration of magnetize down to 10s to get the AOE quicker, again the dots do add fairly little and you could do nearly the same thing with BA before the changes(minus the damage buff and scaling AOE explosion).

You're using an AOE and therefore doing almost equivalent damage to all targets (as you can see in the shot I left in here, dead units and near-dead healthbar highlighted). At that point the explosion is pretty wasteful - it only occurs if the initial target is dead, therefore in your AOE situation there, the other targets don't even need all that explosion damage. And you have to find a properly positioned enemy every time it pops, remembering that it uses LoS rules and positioning matters significantly if relying on the boom.

9 hours ago, Djego27 said:

In comparison a often considered low DPS frame what happens to be my main:

 

6s TTK(and this is the massively nerfed version, the frame could do that in under 1.5s before U17 and the status shotgun nerfs). Does not require AOE dot cheese, does not encourage lazy game play(at least at high levels where WoF becomes plain CC) and just uses plain single elemental damage multiplication and proper utilization of status to punch through high level units.

But that's nothing to do with the Ember besides an Accelerant buff to heat damage, which would be just as accessible by other warframes such as Nova priming, Chroma buffs, etc.

Also, that's 6 seconds while firing at the enemies to initiate heat procs. Meanwhile, again, my over-time Magnetise damage has the killing potential to do that while I'm doing other things and doesn't require as much maintenance. I can keep three large bubbles chugging along dealing ticks while you're pointing at your targets.

8 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Any ETA when we can get a Mag rework that actually fixes getting shot at the edges of BA by units in the BA, crush that actually works on all CC ticks instead of just the last one under lag, that comes with a BA that just switches targets and then depletes when it runs out of targets instead of DOT mechanics and blocking gunfire while penalizing duration builds, that removes the double standards when it comes to over shield and anti armor augment mods compared to every single other frame in the game, a fix to low level spawning so we can have a working self gpull again instead of that LOS mod that nobody uses since, a shield polarise that actually does remove shields by percentage again, does percentage scaling damage and a pull that we can toggle to push?

Any ETA when you stop projecting your false prejudices and ideals onto the rest of us who actually recognise Magnetise in its current form as hugely good, DoTs and all?

I mean, I'll take boons to Polarise, augments, and other niggly issues just the same, but don't make up things like 'penalising duration' considering you can just pull things into the bubble of murder. There's almost no downside to duration at all. Polarise more things. Less ammo spent charging up murderspheres since the ticks have longer to work. No effect on Crush and Pull either way. Add a very deliberate manual pop of very niche obstructive Magnetises (I stuck one in front of a rotator plate doing today's Kela Assassination Sortie and had to wait it out, but hey) with the caveat of no explosion damage if necessary and there's absolutely no issues left after that.

 

You want to match Polarise's diminished effectiveness with a mediocre improvement to Magnetise/Bullet Attractor. At that point, Mag actually will have been ruined.

 

12 minutes ago, ImNotACatTrustMe said:

And now Magnetize+Crush combo nerfed too in 18.13.3. Why they want so much to remove Mag from list of usable frames?!

Bugging the auto-kill failsafe is not a combo. It's a bug. Don't act like it was intended or we were entitled to it.

Edited June 3, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

7 hours ago, Sirabot said:

Pull doesn't reliably pull enemies. Half the time they just stand there and keep shooting me. It's damage is pitiful.

Crush's damage? Does it do damage? It kills low level enemies before the casting animation ends but does absolutely nothing to enemies level 25+.

Add a single nullifier or Ancient healer to the mix and Mag's kit completely falls apart.

They're nerfing AoEs, as too many devs consider them "EZ mode" cheese -- yet remove them from player abilities and put them in the boss rotation, instead as the "challenge".

Honestly, it's the only way I can even play WF. Take these AoEs out and it's just single target shooting, I have no other choice but to stop playing. Too many particle effects and wobbles to shoot single targets with a rat-tat-tat style weapons now.

[Djego27]

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

You're using an AOE and therefore doing almost equivalent damage to all targets (as you can see in the shot I left in here, dead units and near-dead healthbar highlighted). At that point the explosion is pretty wasteful - it only occurs if the initial target is dead, therefore in your AOE situation there, the other targets don't even need all that explosion damage. And you have to find a properly positioned enemy every time it pops, remembering that it uses LoS rules and positioning matters significantly if relying on the boom.

It is very useful if you use a weapon like the quanta vandal, since it makes up for 40% of the remaining HP on stuff at the end. It is only a bit screwed with the staticor, because it is the tonkor of status weapon, fairly broken and in need of a reasonable balance.

 

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

But that's nothing to do with the Ember besides an Accelerant buff to heat damage, which would be just as accessible by other warframes such as Nova priming, Chroma buffs, etc.

Also, that's 6 seconds while firing at the enemies to initiate heat procs. Meanwhile, again, my over-time Magnetise damage has the killing potential to do that while I'm doing other things and doesn't require as much maintenance. I can keep three large bubbles chugging along dealing ticks while you're pointing at your targets.

My point is that scaling damage and a bit excessive status use(like you did on mag as well back in the days) is completely sufficient to create a proper scaling and effective frame for high level play.

1 hour ago, EDYinnit said:

Any ETA when you stop projecting your false prejudices and ideals onto the rest of us who actually recognise Magnetise in its current form as hugely good, DoTs and all?

I mean, I'll take boons to Polarise, augments, and other niggly issues just the same, but don't make up things like 'penalising duration' considering you can just pull things into the bubble of murder. There's almost no downside to duration at all. Polarise more things. Less ammo spent charging up murderspheres since the ticks have longer to work. No effect on Crush and Pull either way. Add a very deliberate manual pop of very niche obstructive Magnetises (I stuck one in front of a rotator plate doing today's Kela Assassination Sortie and had to wait it out, but hey) with the caveat of no explosion damage if necessary and there's absolutely no issues left after that.

 

You want to match Polarise's diminished effectiveness with a mediocre improvement to Magnetise/Bullet Attractor. At that point, Mag actually will have been ruined.

I had this argument a ton over the last months in Saryn threads. Different to all the "ugh mag does fall off at L12" I point out the issues, I show L135 armor with zero CP full clear in under 10s with the frame and I address bugs and things that I personally dislike with a lot of hours on mag in the game.

Bottom line, I did consider Mag as a good frame with lots of issues that needed fixing. What I see is zero fixes and just adding another cheese mechanic, at the cost of making her signature use absolute crap(augmented shield sorti with no shield clearance at all), that makes the frame dull and boring in my honest option(like it is with saryn) and people will defend this bad design till death because it suits them.

Duration is a massive issue on mag currently since to much prevents you to make any use of the AOE explosion damage and will block gun fire, what is a no go on a high level focused dps frame.

I want to have SP in a useful state, I want meaningful and good choices with augment mods and BA also good but not at saryn cheese levels for the sake of being the only useful thing in the tool kit and actually giving choice to the player instead of limiting him to a certain way of play. I want to play my old mag in a polished and more flexible form, I don't want to play the new mag, since it gives me a similar bitter taste as the the new saryn(with the difference that the old saryn was also incredible boring and dull to play, so nothing lost on that front).

Edited June 3, 2016 by Djego27

[TheLexiConArtist]

21 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

It is very useful if you use a weapon like the quanta vandal, since it makes up for 40% of the remaining HP on stuff at the end. It is only a big screwed with the staticor, because it is the tonkor of status weapon, fairly broken and in need of a reasonable balance.

Fair, but assuming the extrapolation of my 10 ammo usage is valid, that's still a DoT of many thousands racked up with plenty of time on the clock, on armoured enemies. Personally, the explosions of 3 million damage that happen after the fact are just eye candy. Bearing in mind that Mag's power capacity is low, fewer casts is preferable, making long-lasting, large DoT magnetise bubbles approach optimal.

 

Also, 4CP is still valid but removes Polarise from the equation entirely (I already mentioned that unshielded+unarmoured targets being unaffected was not much better than any unshielded being unaffected in principle). Then you've got your big bubbles doing 160k DPS, plenty enough to wipe out all trespassers in the blink of an eye.

 

21 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

Bottom line, I did consider Mag as a good frame with lots of issues that needed fixing. What I see is zero fixes and just adding another cheese mechanic, at the cost of making her signature use absolute crap(augmented shield sorti with no shield clearance at all), that makes the frame dull and boring in my honest option(like it is with saryn) and people will defend this bad design till death because it suits them.

Duration is a massive issue on mag currently since to much prevents you to make any use of the AOE explosion damage and will block gun fire, what is a no go on a high level focused dps frame.

I want to have SP in a useful state, I want meaningful and good choices with augment mods and BA also good but not at saryn cheese levels for the sake of being the only useful thing in the tool kit and actually giving choice to the player instead of limiting him to a certain way of play. I want to play my old mag in polished and more flexible form, I don't want to play the new mag, since it gives me a similar bitter taste as the the new saryn(with the difference that the old saryn was also incredible boring and dull to play, so nothing lost on that front).

No shield clearance on Aug. Shield Sorties? Man, my teammates must have been doing something wrong when I came out of that with 90% of kills and 84% damage dealt. (Shields = no armour = enormous dps again!)

My builds all have positive duration (okay, one's at 95%) and I haven't seen a single tangible problem as long as I don't do abjectly stupid things. Explosion is an afterthought, blocking gunfire works both ways (and there's little as satisfying as intercepting those Tonkors and Simulors before they can affect things that die from Magnetise DoTs reaching outside the explosion radii.) Like I said, an ability to pop on command as long as it's very deliberate (Globe shattering as a perfect equivalent) is all that this needs, not another re-rework into an errative jumping field that completely intercepts target priorities (where the DoT of the current one at least ensures everything is murdered equally).

I've agreed on other counts for Polarise and stuff. Just keep my murderbubbles as they function now, I'm quite fond of them. Shotguns seem to not apply pellets properly, though. Brakking up a bubble only gave it pittances. (There's a similar issue of lost AOEs when shooting through Volt shields now. May be related.) Bugfixes like that are K, but mechanically it's sound.

 

Although, you beg the question of how Mag's "push 2 and the map falls over if Corpus" is (was) any less boring and dull than Saryn's "push 4 and the map falls over" is (was)?

Edited June 3, 2016 by EDYinnit

[robbybe01234]

I've posted plenty here already, but I will write one last thought on her rework. 

Regardless of your kill count during a mission or damage dealt or how you feel about her kit, her rework is factually designed in a way that conflicts with itself as well as her purpose as a fragile caster frame.  I'll leave it to you to figure out how it does so as I found it fairly interesting. 

Now, I'm off to level up Volt. 

 

[HellEnforcer]

I am just copy-pasting an excerpt of a post I made earlier this week in the hopes that at the very least here will be read, unlike on my buried post.

Mag has been my WarFrame of choice ever since I started the game. She was my starter frame and has been usually my first pick when I don't need any kind of specialization. As such it hurts me to see her transformation from a good frame all around to one that seemed to almost rival Chesa's uselessness (I bet you were wondering why Chesa was in the title, weren't you?). Fortunately, while she got kicked in the guts on one skill, another one was buffed up a bit.

• Current Change Reasoning:

          Shield Polarize: 

               People love to say she is a one trick pony. Press 2, kill Corpus. Sadly, it wasn't too far from reality. At least to some extent.

          Bullet Attractor:

               This skill was just useful for single targets (incredibly useful, mind you), there was no real use outside of it. The damage of the explosion wasn't worth the cost.

          Crush:

               This dancing maneuver fell out of popularity once damage 2.0 came out. The damage dealt was not good at all and the CC provided was inconsistent most of the time.

• Outcome:

          Shield Polarize:

          Shield Polarize has become a Chesa level skill. While on paper the skill seems to be good, on practice it is faulty in more ways than you can arrive to Rome. The damage is non existent for two big reasons. One the flat damage change, and the other that has been pointed out a lot is that the wave will pop the first shield and then the next target will be have less shields to pop. Now the thing is that with the flat change the second issue is barely a problem, as the flat damage will even prevent to ever deplete the shields of a tightly packed high level enemies.

         The second problem is that the wave now will take time to reach allies, so it can no longer be used to help an ally that is not close in a risky situation. On top of it, even though the wave can be recast, the new wave will delete the old wave on the spot, so it is not possible to send multiple waves.

        The new addition to strip armor seems good on paper, but in reality it is incredibly useless. The amount stripped is minimal, requiring over 6 casts to strip a lvl 50 heavy gunner's armor. The cost of the skill to be used for this reason is not worth it at all. It is also illogical to expect one or two casts to strip totally the armor of those heavy units, but given the cost and the amount of armor they have, this is barely a utility addition, but rather a minimal bonus. While testing it became clear that this was intended to be used in combination with Bullet Atractor, but the increase in Bullet Attractor's damage seemed to be too low as well.

        Bullet Attractor:

        Bullet Attractor is now really useful. The fact that now the sphere stays even with the target dead, it means you can put in strategically in choke points or common places where the enemy either gets or shoots through and server as barriers. While the DoT seems minimal, the explosion damage seems to be decent. Personally I am loving this skill.

        Crush:

        Crush is still a dance move used to clap your hand if you are happy. I did not fully test the extra damage to magnetized targets (to be honest I don't even know who are these magnetized targets. Those who are inside the Magnetize skill? Those who you used Magnetize on? Those who are under Magnetic proc?) but considering how the enemies scale and that Crush stops being effective at around enemies of level 15-20, I am expecting it to be as effective up to level 25 or so.

• Suggestion:

         Shield Polarize (I know that's not the name anymore):

          Let it still replenish allies shield instantly regardless of distance. As it is, the current change punished this skill if used as support a lot.

         I can think of two ways on which the damage could be brought back to be something, hopefully not as OP as it used to be.

        The first idea would be to create a delay between the wave molesting an enemy... erm, I mean touching, and the time when the shields blows up on their faces. Let's say the delay to be of half a second. During this delay the shields absorb the shield explosion damage of the shields that explode first, adding it to the damage they deal, This added damage would probably have to be a fraction of the explosion damage, else probably the skill would end up being the nuke it used to be. Maybe not, I have not really sat down to write down numbers.

         The second idea is the one I prefer. Remove the explosion, let the drain be a percent as it used to be before, and instead make it as if the shields collapse unto themselves hurting only the shielded enemy with some multiplier to the amount collapsed. Let's say an enemy is touched by the wave, and the skill makes 50% of their shields to collapse causing 100% extra damage to itself. In this case, the shield is gone and the enemy ends up taking this 50% of their shields. This is just throwing some numbers around. Considering that as far as I know only the anti-moas have more shields than health and that most shielded enemies seem to have about 10% - 20% of their health in shields, this seems fairly decent (if not underwhelming)

         The armor stripping change was a nice addition, seemed to be an attempt to make Mag viable against another faction as well, although is fell really short. A good addition to it would be that the shards can hit other enemies causing it to shed more armor. This could cause a chain reaction when they are close together, like on a Bullet Attractor bubble. Yay, synergy.

      Bullet Attractor:

      Seems to be awesome at the moment. The only change I could suggest is to fix that you can hit yourself or your sentinel if they are in the way of your bullet when you shoot inside of it. I am assuming it is a bug. Perhaps it is intended?

      Crush:

      The damage is kind of lame. Mostly due to it being of magnetic damage, making it useful only against shields. This change is a lot to ask, but it could improve it a bit, not to mention it could make it look awesome (at least on my sad eyes). Once Mag casts crush, let her levitate the enemies as she currently does, but making them ragdoll. Then randomly choose a few of them and let the be the center of a strong magnetic anomaly, which will cause any ragdolled enemies to be absorbed to them, this way you can even use pull. Enemies will be dealt damage from these anomalies instead, which will have damage depending on the amount of enemies absorbed in the anomaly they are in (you could say that they contribute to the anomaly's magnetic strength). This way she can deal some damage with it and still have the CC she currently does. I realize the CC might be a bit too much depending on how long the anomalies are up, which could be too much if the ragdoll effect is too slow to absorb them fast. I suppose this depends on the game's engine at this point.

[PookieNumnums]

I was trying to think of a way to really make mag something special while using what she already has, so what i would like to see is

 

for magnetize:

firstly, id like to see it stop messing with my antimatter drops :P other stuff id like to see

that enemies pulled into a magnetize bubble cannot be pulled out

that shrapnel pulled off of enemies that are already within the magnetic field have 2x effect

that a counter is stored of the total dmg absorbed by magnetize and that damage be dealt outward on expiration over 10m which cannot be affected by rangemods

that the dot to enemies within the magnetize field recieve a % of total damage absorbed over a regular interval regardless of how close to the center of the magnetic field while every x amount of ticks a higher % of the total absorbed is done ( so say 50% of total absorbed damage every tick, one tick every 3 seconds, and every 9 seconds a 120% tick )( dont take the numbers too seriously, its the method not the statistic which is important )

 

for polarize

this isnt already a part of the ability but i was thinking it would be neat to make polarize actually polarize enemies.. an if they share a polarity ( same ) they are pulled together (3m radius on an enemy) and if theyre different they push apart with enough force to knockdown

i would also like to see enemies given a 50/50 chance to either deal less damage or take more damage for a short duration after

i would also like to see magnetize bubbles radiate pulses at 25 50 75 and 100% marks of their total duration (so if it was 10s duration every 2.5s)(excluding spent time) which deal 12.5 25 37.5 50 % total absorbed damage, when hit by polarize. 2nd 3rd 4th bubbles will cost an additional x energy if more than one present when casting polarize

 

and for crush

i would like to see enemies trapped in a magnetize bubble deal crush's damage plus an additional 50% of the magnetized fields absorbed damage (which is a percent of whats put in) every time theyre hit with crush while in the bubble

i would like to see using crush on a bubble that has been polarized cause the bubble to explode for 2x the absorbed damge, so that a well timed mag could cast polarize, magnetize an enemy right as its passing over, pull enemies while polarize finishes spreading, then right as the fourth pulse goes off (see magnetize suggestion) crush the bubble to deal one last end all blow. 

[CxLL]

On 5/28/2016 at 0:07 AM, FelisImpurrator said:

Did all of you just take your old builds with total dump stat duration and expect to hit Polarize to nuke the map like the old days? Well, I've got some news for you: You may perhaps be doing it wrong.

Cat, you saved me a lot of time by writing everything I wanted to say.

 

Tenno, please don't go down the "I don't need to try it in order to know it's bad" route. Mag's rework is seriously amazing.

On another note, I really miss the vacuum passive sound.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

8 minutes ago, cxll said:

Cat, you saved me a lot of time by writing everything I wanted to say.

 

Tenno, please don't go down the "I don't need to try it in order to know it's bad" route. Mag's rework is seriously amazing.

On another note, I really miss the vacuum passive sound.

I actually went out with a Power Strength+Duration build and lost 89% Power Strength to do so.

When you lose that much Power Strength and Shield Polarize and Crush now feel like how your frame was at level 20, it's not "seriously amazing", it's a BIG nerf.

DE suckered players by making the dump stat a mandatory secondary stat. A useless stat on a fast caster frame.

Min-maxers are so excited in the new shiny (and plenty of them may not played Mag much but just for Corpus anyway), that they probably didn't even notice the change (as what they're talking about IS almost exclusively Magnetize).

Little mention of how the cast speed has changed.

Little mention that a 3 year-old frame was flipped 180 degrees in one patch in play style (new frames/characters are made instead, not totally bork an existing frame).

Little mention in how, now, Mag is some weird CC frame with little mitigation that CC frames require, and the higher ability costs. ALL they seem to care about is CHEESING Magnetize itself.

So it's more gimmicks on a frame these guys don't appear to have used much, and probably won't still much as other frames can do the same job better -- funny how I can survive and do that Alert Corpus mission solo for 8 waves on Trinity, but only can survive for 4 waves on Mag as her Shield Polarize was nerfed to the ground, too (as Shield Polarize was her shield refresh, her only defense).

[NinthAria]

Polarize still feels like it needs some tweaking. I'm not convinced it needs to be a percentage drain like it used to be, or at least certainly not as high of a percentage (i.e. capable of 100% drain in a single cast). All the same, it feels a little weak at higher levels, which is doubly painful now that the energy cost went up. Max rank base damage is 400, which is in between a cast of Pull and a tick of Crush--I think it could stand to go higher considering its exclusivity in affecting shields/armor, unlike Pull/Crush which will damage anything. Might not be the best solution; not sure how else to go about it though.

Would also like to see the shards generated by Polarize be a little more intuitive. Right now they just kind of sit there, and often go to waste because there's no way to get them into a Magnetize bubble short of just casting Magnetize on somebody standing in that area. Would be nice if you could move them around with Pull, so you could gather them up into an existing Magnetize zone or something. Also would be cool if they interacted with Crush somehow--maybe picking up shrapnel in the area to boost the damage? Add an armor shred? I dunno.

Feel like the rework has potential though. Just needs some polishing.

[SquireAngel]

On Mag, the only real issue I've noticed is how quickly polarize falls off. Would it work to have polarize back to a more moderately balanced percebtage, but have a hard cap on dmg dealt to units? This keeps the shield/armor shred scaling forever, opening targets up, but not out right killing them. Without armor or shields, higher tier enemis become much more managelable, and polarize acts more as a debuff, rather than a nuke. This worked very well in saryn's favor, could we possibly see such an effect on mag? 

[hukurokuju5]

BUG on MAGNETIZE

sometimes, i will cast  magnetize, shoot into it, and then aim at something outside of the zone, and the projectile or beam weapon will zip towards the zone.

I am not aiming at the zone, but the projectile/beam will be drawn to it.  I am not sure what causes this, as it is a little inconsistant......

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

4 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

On Mag, the only real issue I've noticed is how quickly polarize falls off. Would it work to have polarize back to a more moderately balanced percebtage, but have a hard cap on dmg dealt to units? This keeps the shield/armor shred scaling forever, opening targets up, but not out right killing them. Without armor or shields, higher tier enemis become much more managelable, and polarize acts more as a debuff, rather than a nuke. This worked very well in saryn's favor, could we possibly see such an effect on mag? 

DE looks like they made Shield Polarize and Magnetize to work via mod switching, taking out +Power Strength and -Duration mods and putting in pure +Duration mods.

Being reduced to almost 1/3 of your Power Strength to make an existing abilities now work by using a dump stat, is a colossal nerf to abilities. It's dev cheese (like taking AoEs from players and giving it to bosses as a "challenge" instead).

It's why Mag feels so "off" because the core build for Mag was changed from fast cast to some weird duration build, with increased power cost as a double tax on ability use.

In other words, they double nerfed Mag in both mods she can use, and using her abilities.

Dev cheese all the way.

[SquireAngel]

4 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

DE looks like they made Shield Polarize and Magnetize to work via mod switching, taking out +Power Strength and -Duration mods and putting in pure +Duration mods.

Being reduced to almost 1/3 of your Power Strength to make an existing abilities now work by using a dump stat, is a colossal nerf to abilities. It's dev cheese (like taking AoEs from players and giving it to bosses as a "challenge" instead).

It's why Mag feels so "off" because the core build for Mag was changed from fast cast to some weird duration build, with increased power cost as a double tax on ability use.

In other words, they double nerfed Mag in both mods she can use, and using her abilities.

Dev cheese all the way.

I don't really see the double tax you're referring to. Are you referring to less space for efficiency? That point asside, it can take 20+ casts of polarize the shred off lvl 60 heavy gunner armor. Now I'm not asking for super high numbers, as even 15% would easily be pushed to 20% with even moderate power strength, having small dmg bursts to soften up smaller units for pull, but debuffin higher-end enemies enough with only 2-3 casts without gimping the rest of her kits dps potential. 

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

4 minutes ago, SquireAngel said:

I don't really see the double tax you're referring to. Are you referring to less space for efficiency? That point asside, it can take 20+ casts of polarize the shred off lvl 60 heavy gunner armor. Now I'm not asking for super high numbers, as even 15% would easily be pushed to 20% with even moderate power strength, having small dmg bursts to soften up smaller units for pull, but debuffin higher-end enemies enough with only 2-3 casts without gimping the rest of her kits dps potential. 

Mag's pre-patch mods to use were +Power Strength -Duration corrupted mods. The goal was to build absolute strength, as she scales wonderfully with Power Strength.

DE's cheese is to dock Mag by 1/3 of Power Strength to fit in +Duration mods (a previous dump stat as it's useless to Mag as a fast caster with no duration abilities but then Bullet Attractor, that few used).

Extra cheese on the ability side is to increase the cost of Shield Polarize.

So even if you nerf yourself into the ground to fit +duration mods -- and fit the Shield Transference mod in -- there's now an added taxed to refresh your Overshields.

The reason Mag spammed #2 so much is to restore her shields -- she HAD too as that's her defense -- but now, there's even a higher energy tax on refreshing those shields ON TOP of nerfing her mod wise AND ability wise.

Mag was nerfed BELOW the ground both ways.

[hukurokuju5]

10 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Mag's pre-patch mods to use were +Power Strength -Duration corrupted mods. The goal was to build absolute strength, as she scales wonderfully with Power Strength.

DE's cheese is to dock Mag by 1/3 of Power Strength to fit in +Duration mods (a previous dump stat as it's useless to Mag as a fast caster with no duration abilities but then Bullet Attractor, that few used).

Extra cheese on the ability side is to increase the cost of Shield Polarize.

So even if you nerf yourself into the ground to fit +duration mods -- and fit the Shield Transference mod in -- there's now an added taxed to refresh your Overshields.

The reason Mag spammed #2 so much is to restore her shields -- she HAD too as that's her defense -- but now, there's even a higher energy tax on refreshing those shields ON TOP of nerfing her mod wise AND ability wise.

Mag was nerfed BELOW the ground both ways.

polarize was super nerfed .  magnetize is her most useful skill now

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

1 minute ago, hukurokuju5 said:

polarize was super nerfed .  magnetize is her most useful skill now

Polarize was Mag's shield refresh.................

Now a very costly ability that's even a DoT in effect for damage.

A mini health benefit for Magnetize won't replace her main defense ability, nor ignore 1/3 Power Strength reduction to fit the +duration builds.

Go over to the Trinity thread and try to pass a Bless Trinity build for EV, and see the same "Ewwww" over it.

[Hypernaut1]

I haven't had much time to mess around with mag, is the new polarize still an effective way to fully restore her shields? Is her shields transference aug still good?

[Djego27]

5 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

Fair, but assuming the extrapolation of my 10 ammo usage is valid, that's still a DoT of many thousands racked up with plenty of time on the clock, on armoured enemies. Personally, the explosions of 3 million damage that happen after the fact are just eye candy. Bearing in mind that Mag's power capacity is low, fewer casts is preferable, making long-lasting, large DoT magnetise bubbles approach optimal.

Also, 4CP is still valid but removes Polarise from the equation entirely (I already mentioned that unshielded+unarmoured targets being unaffected was not much better than any unshielded being unaffected in principle). Then you've got your big bubbles doing 160k DPS, plenty enough to wipe out all trespassers in the blink of an eye.

The longer it stays up the more likely it is to run out of targets inside it, at what point it just prevents you and your team shooting targets behind it. The kill speed is also in favour a low duration build, since you can just recast magnetize if the AOE at the end did not manage to finish the job.

5 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

No shield clearance on Aug. Shield Sorties? Man, my teammates must have been doing something wrong when I came out of that with 90% of kills and 84% damage dealt. (Shields = no armour = enormous dps again!)

You realize that shields are very different to scaling then armor and how a 200% power strength mag did work with SP before the changes? Even if you had a guardian eximus in range(what was the reason mag was bad for eximus sortis) you had at least 100% shield removal in one cast. The current SP does not even do that, it does flat damage to shields what means nothing at high levels.

5 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

My builds all have positive duration (okay, one's at 95%) and I haven't seen a single tangible problem as long as I don't do abjectly stupid things. Explosion is an afterthought, blocking gunfire works both ways (and there's little as satisfying as intercepting those Tonkors and Simulors before they can affect things that die from Magnetise DoTs reaching outside the explosion radii.) Like I said, an ability to pop on command as long as it's very deliberate (Globe shattering as a perfect equivalent) is all that this needs, not another re-rework into an errative jumping field that completely intercepts target priorities (where the DoT of the current one at least ensures everything is murdered equally).

I've agreed on other counts for Polarise and stuff. Just keep my murderbubbles as they function now, I'm quite fond of them. Shotguns seem to not apply pellets properly, though. Brakking up a bubble only gave it pittances. (There's a similar issue of lost AOEs when shooting through Volt shields now. May be related.) Bugfixes like that are K, but mechanically it's sound.

 

Although, you beg the question of how Mag's "push 2 and the map falls over if Corpus" is (was) any less boring and dull than Saryn's "push 4 and the map falls over" is (was)?

That is strange because I seen a lot of issues with stuff like osprays, nullifiers or Brusas behind a magnetize that you can't pull into it or units in cover that avoid the pull effect with even less duration. A jumping effect would be vastly superior to focus down smaller groups, since it redirects all damage very quickly to heavy units in the magnetize what is very desirable and handy for damage application and would work just as good as the current dot mechanic, while also taking full advantage of non AOE status weapons(what the current magnetize does not at all), non AOE heavy hitting weapons like snipers, shotguns or bows for high level content and never blocking gun fire for your team in any kind of situation.

Mags SP was not different to other AOE nukes up to L60+, where they archived the same thing. Different to normal AOE nukes however single units with not other ones in range or specific units with a high HP pool like oximium Osprays\Techs\Brusas\modular Corpus will always survive a standard 200% SP cast, because no unit has enught shield to deplete her HP pool. After 60 other nukes will need more casts(what does nothing with SP, since the damage was tied to enemy units need to have shield), while SP just scaled, however at this point also the spawn rate of Techs, oxium osprays, nullifiers and guardian eximus(that disabled all but the shield removal effect for any unit in range) will ramp up, what did mean you constantly had to focus on nullifiers and guardian eximus to ensure your SP will have the desired effect and end up with more and more units to shoot(techs could be killed by SP double cast, if you did keep a eye on them and cast SP again once they deployed her shield ospray that had enught shields to finish them off) and requiring the use BA to prevent brusas or modular corpus from one hitting you.

 

[hukurokuju5]

3 hours ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Polarize was Mag's shield refresh.................

Now a very costly ability that's even a DoT in effect for damage.

A mini health benefit for Magnetize won't replace her main defense ability, nor ignore 1/3 Power Strength reduction to fit the +duration builds.

Go over to the Trinity thread and try to pass a Bless Trinity build for EV, and see the same "Ewwww" over it.

her main defensive and offensive ability is magnetize now.... also, you dont need super high powerstr with the way magnetize scales...

 

bench polarize

use magnetize

Edited June 3, 2016 by hukurokuju5