Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[EnderDDT]

41 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

The idea with riot shield having downsides is to prevent Volt players from "turning on the idiot shield" and running around with frontal immunity and an always-on damage benefit.  I advocate for removing the energy/distance and instead lowering movement speed while holding the shield.  

Lets talk about balance here. Zephyr and Mesa have 95-100% ranged damage immunity from all sides and the damage/cc is reflected back at their attackers without requiring interaction. Volt having a frontal-only, ranged-only damage immunity with some ranged damage is not an issue of balance.

What would be balanced is a 2-3 energy per second drain with no weapon, movement, or energy per movement restrictions. It may seem far-fetched since over time it becomes easier to believe that the restrictions are "partially balanced", but they really are not.

 

[Wolfnrun]

4 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

No offense intended, but I really REALLY hate this type of suggestion:

"Lets take out the restriction (that was ridiculous in the first place and was unduly stifling for no good reason) and COMPENSATE for that by adding in some other or some increased restriction elsewhere."

If the original thing is not balanced than "compensation" to shift that imbalance does not fix things, but rather just conserves the unbalanced state. Compensation should only be used to preserve balance in the event of a change that might unbalance a previously well-balanced system. If we want to talk about "balance" than we need a comparison to get an idea about what is standard. The main comparisons for Volt's Riot Shield use of his Electric Shield are to Zephyr's Turbulence and Mesa's Shatter Shield, with the assumption that both worked as intended (both abilities are still a bit buggy). If we want to look at the damage buff than Mesa's Shooting Galery or Mirage's Hall of Mirrors are good places to start.  We also need to recognize that a "broken" aspect is either so weak as to cause problems with the overall viability of the thing it is attached to, so strong as to trivialize content or crowd out other opposing options, or so focused as to make balancing that aspect of the game impossible without making the aspect either too strong or too weak dependent on the circumstances. Balanced aspects fit in with the other similar aspects in a way that is generally similar for their own roles and allows for both diversity and fun.

According to those definitions if Volt was able to pick up his shield and had no extra drains or ill effects it would be unbalanced but not so much to be "broken". Allowing primary weapon use would not create damage numbers that would crowd out pretty much any other damage increase or create any type of broken interaction; mainly because the numbers don't scale with power strength, start for most weapons with a 50% bonus off of base damage vs increasing total damage, most crit based weapons with good attack speed are actually secondaries, and the Riot Shield can basically only affect Volt himself. There is nothing that would make that use "broken" or even "unbalanced", especially if you were to compare to the other damage buffs in the game. The lack of a speed debuff would not hurt any aspect of the game and all it does currently is hurt mele players, but being in mele range pretty much guarantees that some enemy will be able to shoot around the thing and the enemy Volt is fighting will usually be counted as "behind" the shield too (the projectile's path starts at the tip of the gun). Again, not broken and not even unbalanced. The cost is the one area where Volt's Riot Shield addition would become unbalanced, but even that isn't brokenly so. The other two abilities theoretically and realistically give better protection and better secondary effects but cost 75 energy to volt's 50 (Honestly, both Zephyr's and Mesa's abilities are bugged and that needs fixed, but it doesn't change the comparison of how they should work or a recognition of the power that they do currently have).  Even though the numbers are unbalanced in this area, they don't crowd any content out or "break the game" in any other way, so it shouldn't be considered "broken".

So we can see that removing all restrictions would not be broken, and only unbalanced in one area. Out of his current restrictions, two out of the four are already broken and the others are unbalanced. The weapon restriction is imbalanced due to the inherent restrictions already part of how the damage increase works. The damage buff with the Riot Shield is essentially a single frame buff that cannot be increased via power strength and only is effective with a subcategory of weapons (ranged weapons with high crit chances); therefore whatever power the ability might have is ALREADY balanced (maybe overly so), and the restriction is what is unbalancing. Ironically it is secondary weapons that can take most advantage of the mobile nature of the Riot Shield, most primary crit based weapons are either snipers or bows which are usually used immobile anyway. The speed restriction is similarly unbalanced, though not as extreme as the weapon restriction. Simply put, the 20% speed reduction is a loss of power where balance would have been achieved without it. The unidirectional nature of the ability already makes it dangerous (but not negative) to move overly quickly with the ability active, so no correction is necessary; furthermore no other defensive ability has built in negatives to "make up for" the bonuses received with the possible exception of Inaros's #4 (which also serves as an AoE nuke with healing properties).

Where the abilities actually become broken is when we look at the cost. A new player with a LV30 Volt will have 150 energy, while just holding the shield for the entire duration will cost 175 energy if he doesn't move.  Or to put it another way, the only way anyone has found to make the base cost acceptable is with specific end-game content, namely Zenerik, by cannibalizing the end-game content's normal benefits in order to make up for the broken cost of the thing (and even that requires more late game content in the form of mods). This is almost the definition of what happens when people are dealing with a broken system, they end up having to break something else to compensate. In terms of the cost per movement on Volt's Riot Shield, this breaks the core mechanics of the game in terms of power growth. Even if the gains are not equal, doing something to make your Warframe more powerful should not result in a negative return, but the more you use and increase your speed the worse off you are for using your Riot Shield. In a mobility focused game this cost per movement would be broken for nearly anything (possible exception of Nezha's Fire Walker), but even in those edge cases it would be problematic. There is no way to balance a cost per movement on Volt, considering his "Speed" ability, without creating a broken anti-synergy between the two abilities. Anything that is done to make speed more powerful only adds to the losses Volt takes from the Riot Shield, and the very use of one prevents the effective use of the other. A number of people have pointed out that, no matter how nice the Riot Shield is, it isn't worth accidentally picking it up and having to pay the cost. That alone should be telling.

So then what we need to ask now is "what would be balanced". I'll give you a hint: it isn't 5 energy per second over the 25 second duration, and anyone who wants to increase that number is starting the balance discussion at the wrong place. Considering that the other comparison abilities tend to give superior secondary benefits including protection and cost 75 energy or less total, a more sane cost per second would be 2 energy drain per second. On the outside it can be argued for 3 energy drain per second, but anything higher simply ignores balance. At 2 drain the total cost over the duration is 100, with the caryable portion costing 50 over the base cost; at 3 drain the total cost is 125 with the carry time costing a full 75 energy. Considering that the other abilities cost 75 energy, a total cost of 100 is balanced if we remember that the other abilities are more powerful and count the extra cost of Volt's ability as a "premium" for the option of placing the ability (but then loosing the carry functionality while it is placed). Even balancing the carry portion to cost the full price of the other frame's abilities (again, ignoring that the other abilities are more powerful) would only require a 3 energy per second drain, but would result in a total cost of 125 energy.  All of this assumes the complete cutting of the cost per movement, the movement speed reduction, and the weapon restriction.

TL/DR: To make Volt's Riot Shield balanced cut all restrictions on speed and weapon, remove the cost per distance, and reduce the carry cost to 2 or at most 3 energy per second.  THIS IS BALANCED!!!!!  See above for the explanation of why. It very much annoys me to see people talking about "compensation" without thinking about balance first.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Beck117 said:

It has more downsides than good and making Volt even slower would make the riot shield worse, what it needs right now is either reducng the energy with no duration in riot shield or removing the energy drain like you suggested.

This.  First the delay on speed and now advocating "creepshield"?

Volt is ideally a simple, powerful, streamlined strafe and sprint frame and sooooo many suggestions/changes are being made to include limitations and compromised garbage that is hamstringing his true potential.

WHY? Why are so many so afraid to give him a legit toolkit?

1.  If you want to make his niche choice-utility with an alt-3, then make it a legitimate 5th option in his kit and allow for effective CC 4 with duration mods and scaling damage 4 with power strength.

2.  If you want a Supercharger/blitzkreig strafe frame (like I do) then make his passive the ability to cast his 1,3,4 on the run when speed is active (please,please, PLEASE!)

3.  If you want him to Ultimately be a CC frame then jack his stun on his 1, 4, and synergize shock to apply stun effects to shields.

4.  Damage?  Ok, then Synergize 1,3,4 for damage and allow speed to affect ALL aspects of dps on weapons.

Do I like the  "Boss CC" effect on Discharge? Yes.  The Coil CC mob duration dilution and damage cap? No, it breaks it.

Would I use riot shield as is?  No, I hate it when I accidentally grab it.

Do I care about the current new "synergies"?  No.

Is his new passive meaningful?  No.

Is the speed cast delay hurting his kit more than DE realizes?  Yes.

Should base speed be increased? Yes.  He needs to continually move or he dies.

Is he still, with all these changes, an underperforming frame that Volt lovers will use despite his shortcomings?  

Unfortunately...yes.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Wolfnrun]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

This.  First the delay on speed and now advocating "creepshield"?

Volt is ideally a simple, powerful, streamlined strafe and sprint frame and sooooo many suggestions/changes are being made to include limitations and compromised garbage that is hamstringing his true potential.

WHY? Why are so many so afraid to give him a legit toolkit?

1.  If you want to make his niche choice-utility with an alt-3, then make it a legitimate 5th option in his kit and allow for effective CC 4 with duration mods and scaling damage 4 with power strength.

2.  If you want a Supercharger/blitzkreig strafe frame (like I do) then make his passive the ability to cast his 1,3,4 on the run when speed is active (please,please, PLEASE!)

3.  If you want him to Ultimately be a CC frame then jack his stun on his 1, 4, and synergize shock to apply stun effects to shields.

4.  Damage?  Ok, then Synergize 1,3,4 for damage and allow speed to affect ALL aspects of dps on weapons.

Do I like the  "Boss CC" effect on Discharge? Yes.  The Coil CC mob duration dilution and damage cap? No, it breaks it.

Would I use riot shield as is?  No, I hate it when I accidentally grab it.

Do I care about the current new "synergies"?  No.

Is his new passive meaningful?  No.

Is the speed cast delay hurting his kit more than DE realizes?  Yes.

Should base speed be increased? Yes.

Is he still, with all these changes, an underperforming frame that Volt lovers will use despite his shortcomings?  

Unfortunately...yes.

 

 

 

 

What bugs me the most is that some people are afraid of having the ability to do an "OP" amount of damage (I don't like that term) 

What is needed is buffs with no compromise, our abilities need to do more and for 1 to increases the overall amount of quality and effectiveness 

Also, it is evident that with each passing day it gets worse, worse, and worse... 

So many suggestions have been shared with the same intent to do more good than harm... most of it gone ignored except for all of us here in this thread

I think we all need to give ourselves a little credit for working towards a common goal and pushing for as long as we have... #StormRiders let the dream live 

[Wolfnrun]

On 6/8/2016 at 0:54 PM, Wolfnrun said:

I want every ability to be offensive in some way and combining abilities makes it even stronger, I want every ability to be strong on it's own and for more effectiveness if and when combined.  I want to be a storm, I dream of lighting everywhere and a storm like no other. I see me putting excalibur to shame whenever he appears on prime time and lotus to credit me more than him. I want to be another heavily offensive frame like Chroma,rhino and ember. I am volt, I will not let the corpus limit my powers any longer! I will out run them all putting everyone who thinks otherwise to shame! I am the storm! no one will pass! I AM AN ALTERNATIVE TO GUNPLAY!  I DON'T NEED GUNS! 

This is the dream

On 6/9/2016 at 0:57 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I like this dream.

Thank you!!! Support the cause!!! #StromRiders We can do this!!! 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Eh, I'm not much for hash tags, but I guess its for a good cause.

#StormRiders

I just am really annoyed with "Discharge". 

Salt is spilling everywhere, I can't clean it up fast enough, I'm sorry you guys, it's flowing into my screen.

Real great job DE...

I can't air cast the ability, I can't run and gun, I cant slide in and out of a room.

I have to come to complete stop and rely on iffy cc to keep me alive.

Discharge cannot be air cast. But in the casting animation, Volt jumps off the effing ground!!!

REALLY NOW?

Discharge no longer affects cameras. I guess that was over powered? Ok, sure, what ever, let's say yeah, I don't care.

But by your logic DE, discharge shouldn't affect flying enemies when they aren't near a grounded target, if at all, especially if a camera that is connected to a wall that an electric current can travel up won't be affected.

Is there an altitude limit? I think I heard someone mention some such thing, Discharge has a horizontal limit. Its ridiculous either way you look at it, but alright...if that's how you want to do things, I can't stop you.

·I hate molecular prime more and more with each passing day and update... 

I have not encounterd a solo flying enemy yet, and used discharge on them, like a lone osprey, but what comes to mind are the grineer spy mission robots (insert name I forgot) who.can always be found roaming alone. I bet money it really doesn't affect them. 

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Vertical limit. Yep, i made that typo.

[(XBOX)DomTheKilleur]

I wish his 4th would be something like this...

Spoiler

 

 

[RealPandemonium]

7 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

Lets talk about balance here. Zephyr and Mesa have 95-100% ranged damage immunity from all sides and the damage/cc is reflected back at their attackers without requiring interaction.

Both of those powers are bad design, IMO.  Turning off entire facets of gameplay, effectively for free and with no downsides, is boring and game-trivializing.

[Aquasurge]

4 hours ago, (XB1)DomTheKilleur said:

I wish his 4th would be something like this...

  Hide contents

 

 

infamous had some good powers but this is warframe, where volt should be one of the kings of movement and nothing else changes.

[Hypernaut1]

4 hours ago, (XB1)DomTheKilleur said:

I wish his 4th would be something like this...

  Hide contents

 

 

Meh

[Aquasurge]

11 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

No offense intended, but I really REALLY hate this type of suggestion:

"Lets take out the restriction (that was ridiculous in the first place and was unduly stifling for no good reason) and COMPENSATE for that by adding in some other or some increased restriction elsewhere."

If the original thing is not balanced than "compensation" to shift that imbalance does not fix things, but rather just conserves the unbalanced state. Compensation should only be used to preserve balance in the event of a change that might unbalance a previously well-balanced system. If we want to talk about "balance" than we need a comparison to get an idea about what is standard. The main comparisons for Volt's Riot Shield use of his Electric Shield are to Zephyr's Turbulence and Mesa's Shatter Shield, with the assumption that both worked as intended (both abilities are still a bit buggy). If we want to look at the damage buff than Mesa's Shooting Galery or Mirage's Hall of Mirrors are good places to start.  We also need to recognize that a "broken" aspect is either so weak as to cause problems with the overall viability of the thing it is attached to, so strong as to trivialize content or crowd out other opposing options, or so focused as to make balancing that aspect of the game impossible without making the aspect either too strong or too weak dependent on the circumstances. Balanced aspects fit in with the other similar aspects in a way that is generally similar for their own roles and allows for both diversity and fun.

According to those definitions if Volt was able to pick up his shield and had no extra drains or ill effects it would be unbalanced but not so much to be "broken". Allowing primary weapon use would not create damage numbers that would crowd out pretty much any other damage increase or create any type of broken interaction; mainly because the numbers don't scale with power strength, start for most weapons with a 50% bonus off of base damage vs increasing total damage, most crit based weapons with good attack speed are actually secondaries, and the Riot Shield can basically only affect Volt himself. There is nothing that would make that use "broken" or even "unbalanced", especially if you were to compare to the other damage buffs in the game. The lack of a speed debuff would not hurt any aspect of the game and all it does currently is hurt mele players, but being in mele range pretty much guarantees that some enemy will be able to shoot around the thing and the enemy Volt is fighting will usually be counted as "behind" the shield too (the projectile's path starts at the tip of the gun). Again, not broken and not even unbalanced. The cost is the one area where Volt's Riot Shield addition would become unbalanced, but even that isn't brokenly so. The other two abilities theoretically and realistically give better protection and better secondary effects but cost 75 energy to volt's 50 (Honestly, both Zephyr's and Mesa's abilities are bugged and that needs fixed, but it doesn't change the comparison of how they should work or a recognition of the power that they do currently have).  Even though the numbers are unbalanced in this area, they don't crowd any content out or "break the game" in any other way, so it shouldn't be considered "broken".

So we can see that removing all restrictions would not be broken, and only unbalanced in one area. Out of his current restrictions, two out of the four are already broken and the others are unbalanced. The weapon restriction is imbalanced due to the inherent restrictions already part of how the damage increase works. The damage buff with the Riot Shield is essentially a single frame buff that cannot be increased via power strength and only is effective with a subcategory of weapons (ranged weapons with high crit chances); therefore whatever power the ability might have is ALREADY balanced (maybe overly so), and the restriction is what is unbalancing. Ironically it is secondary weapons that can take most advantage of the mobile nature of the Riot Shield, most primary crit based weapons are either snipers or bows which are usually used immobile anyway. The speed restriction is similarly unbalanced, though not as extreme as the weapon restriction. Simply put, the 20% speed reduction is a loss of power where balance would have been achieved without it. The unidirectional nature of the ability already makes it dangerous (but not negative) to move overly quickly with the ability active, so no correction is necessary; furthermore no other defensive ability has built in negatives to "make up for" the bonuses received with the possible exception of Inaros's #4 (which also serves as an AoE nuke with healing properties).

Where the abilities actually become broken is when we look at the cost. A new player with a LV30 Volt will have 150 energy, while just holding the shield for the entire duration will cost 175 energy if he doesn't move.  Or to put it another way, the only way anyone has found to make the base cost acceptable is with specific end-game content, namely Zenerik, by cannibalizing the end-game content's normal benefits in order to make up for the broken cost of the thing (and even that requires more late game content in the form of mods). This is almost the definition of what happens when people are dealing with a broken system, they end up having to break something else to compensate. In terms of the cost per movement on Volt's Riot Shield, this breaks the core mechanics of the game in terms of power growth. Even if the gains are not equal, doing something to make your Warframe more powerful should not result in a negative return, but the more you use and increase your speed the worse off you are for using your Riot Shield. In a mobility focused game this cost per movement would be broken for nearly anything (possible exception of Nezha's Fire Walker), but even in those edge cases it would be problematic. There is no way to balance a cost per movement on Volt, considering his "Speed" ability, without creating a broken anti-synergy between the two abilities. Anything that is done to make speed more powerful only adds to the losses Volt takes from the Riot Shield, and the very use of one prevents the effective use of the other. A number of people have pointed out that, no matter how nice the Riot Shield is, it isn't worth accidentally picking it up and having to pay the cost. That alone should be telling.

So then what we need to ask now is "what would be balanced". I'll give you a hint: it isn't 5 energy per second over the 25 second duration, and anyone who wants to increase that number is starting the balance discussion at the wrong place. Considering that the other comparison abilities tend to give superior secondary benefits including protection and cost 75 energy or less total, a more sane cost per second would be 2 energy drain per second. On the outside it can be argued for 3 energy drain per second, but anything higher simply ignores balance. At 2 drain the total cost over the duration is 100, with the caryable portion costing 50 over the base cost; at 3 drain the total cost is 125 with the carry time costing a full 75 energy. Considering that the other abilities cost 75 energy, a total cost of 100 is balanced if we remember that the other abilities are more powerful and count the extra cost of Volt's ability as a "premium" for the option of placing the ability (but then loosing the carry functionality while it is placed). Even balancing the carry portion to cost the full price of the other frame's abilities (again, ignoring that the other abilities are more powerful) would only require a 3 energy per second drain, but would result in a total cost of 125 energy.  All of this assumes the complete cutting of the cost per movement, the movement speed reduction, and the weapon restriction.

TL/DR: To make Volt's Riot Shield balanced cut all restrictions on speed and weapon, remove the cost per distance, and reduce the carry cost to 2 or at most 3 energy per second.  THIS IS BALANCED!!!!!  See above for the explanation of why. It very much annoys me to see people talking about "compensation" without thinking about balance first.

you make some good points here.honestly you should forward this to @[DE]Rebecca or @[DE]Steve.

Spoiler

*(master of the wall of text rants on this thread)

 

6 hours ago, Wolfnrun said:

What bugs me the most is that some people are afraid of having the ability to do an "OP" amount of damage (I don't like that term) 

What is needed is buffs with no compromise, our abilities need to do more and for 1 to increases the overall amount of quality and effectiveness 

Also, it is evident that with each passing day it gets worse, worse, and worse... 

So many suggestions have been shared with the same intent to do more good than harm... most of it gone ignored except for all of us here in this thread

I think we all need to give ourselves a little credit for working towards a common goal and pushing for as long as we have... #StormRiders let the dream live 

#stormriders 

yep. totally agree here - we need some positive energy here for a change.

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Aquasurge

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

you make some good points here.honestly you should forward this to @[DE]Rebecca or @[DE]Steve.

  Reveal hidden contents

*(master of the wall of text rants on this thread)

 

#stormriders 

yep. totally agree here - we need some positive energy here for a change.

 

"Supercharge" Shock option:

Holding down the button/key beyond a tap increases damage and stun duration/chance by 50% per second up to three seconds.  The drawback is 50% return on energy invested:

Tap: Standard shock

1 Sec then release:

200% energy cost; 150% dmg/stun duration

2 Sec then release:

300% energy cost; 200% dmg/stun duration

3 Sec then release:

400% energy cost; 250%

dmg/stun duration

Cooler fireworks/sounds added with greater damage...anyway something like this but needs an added benefit Vs just repeated shock.

Brainstorming gunplay alt...

Edited June 21, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Wolfnrun]

I feel silly posting proposed changes again, but this thread gets bigger and bigger and BIGGER

passive: So before I was being a little selfish and realized the passive would only benifit bows. (If youve kept up with me since earlier in this thread)  Increase the amount gained to 100 steps per m and cap at 50k, 5% of whats stored will be used on next attacks...people likes guns instead of bows...I complealty forgot so don't hurt me!!!

Shock - more damage, chain links and duration

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Wolfnrun

[Wolfnrun]

15 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

Lets talk about balance here. Zephyr and Mesa have 95-100% ranged damage immunity from all sides and the damage/cc is reflected back at their attackers without requiring interaction. Volt having a frontal-only, ranged-only damage immunity with some ranged damage is not an issue of balance.

What would be balanced is a 2-3 energy per second drain with no weapon, movement, or energy per movement restrictions. It may seem far-fetched since over time it becomes easier to believe that the restrictions are "partially balanced", but they really are not.

Everything you say is amazing...Here, you get a lightning bolt as your reward  (What shock should look like) 

[Ikusias]

#stormriders

I like most of the suggestions above about de-gimping Volt, and hate with a passion that there are still apologists that support DE imbecility in reworking warframe, Volt needs to be buffed, a secondary ability with 4 different downsides is bad, the bad sinergy and counterintuiteve dependency on power stats on 3 of his powers is even worse, the lack on any feedback from DE on the issue is shameful.

Of all reworks in this update there was none well received - congrants again to DE for missing the point every time, if enemies had their same good aim our life would be much easier with a miss rate above 70%!

- Sniper rework - combo game no one wanted, none of the major problems addressed

- Saryn rework - bad sinergy and energy efficency, just changed the meta build, again why bother wasting time for a worse end result

- Mesa rework - nerf

- This latest rework - overall nerfs on all frames touched, none of the real issues addressed

- Frame passives - ranging from useless like Mag or Oberon's to plain wrong for the frame as in Nix and Ember's case, to not being passives but elements of their powers like  Draco's.

I'm loathe to say this but current development at DE sucks, badly. The fact that no one of the staff involved in this trainwreck even commented when his work is criticized by 95% of posters is even worse as it shows DE lack of concern for players feedback.

Not only i'd like explanations of what the hell DE staff was smoking when working on this rework, but i'd like to see them fired for incompetence and their work rolled back and undone to let a different and hopefully more competent staff take over,

Also "Warframe is a beta" is no more an accettable excuse considering that there are a cash shop, a partnership with a major distributor and so on: those are features of a full fledged release so no, Warframe is not a beta, is a freaking mess of a released commercial product. in other terms: this bullS#&$ is costing you money DE! who would spend real cash in ingame benefits if you keep f..ing up with customers expectationsg every update?

[Wolfnrun]

Hey @Aquasurge #Stormriders is spreading! We can make an impact! cmon guys! WE HAVE A VOICE  Do not sumbit and act as if theres nothing we can do! No more!

 

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, Ikusias said:

#stormriders

I like most of the suggestions above about de-gimping Volt, and hate with a passion that there are still apologists that support DE imbecility in reworking warframe, Volt needs to be buffed, a secondary ability with 4 different downsides is bad, the bad sinergy and counterintuiteve dependency on power stats on 3 of his powers is even worse, the lack on any feedback from DE on the issue is shameful.

Of all reworks in this update there was none well received - congrants again to DE for missing the point every time, if enemies had their same good aim our life would be much easier with a miss rate above 70%!

- Sniper rework - combo game no one wanted, none of the major problems addressed

- Saryn rework - bad sinergy and energy efficency, just changed the meta build, again why bother wasting time for a worse end result

- Mesa rework - nerf

- This latest rework - overall nerfs on all frames touched, none of the real issues addressed

- Frame passives - ranging from useless like Mag or Oberon's to plain wrong for the frame as in Nix and Ember's case, to not being passives but elements of their powers like  Draco's.

I'm loathe to say this but current development at DE sucks, badly. The fact that no one of the staff involved in this trainwreck even commented when his work is criticized by 95% of posters is even worse as it shows DE lack of concern for players feedback.

Not only i'd like explanations of what the hell DE staff was smoking when working on this rework, but i'd like to see them fired for incompetence and their work rolled back and undone to let a different and hopefully more competent staff take over,

Also "Warframe is a beta" is no more an accettable excuse considering that there are a cash shop, a partnership with a major distributor and so on: those are features of a full fledged release so no, Warframe is not a beta, is a freaking mess of a released commercial product. in other terms: this bullS#&$ is costing you money DE! who would spend real cash in ingame benefits if you keep f..ing up with customers expectationsg every update?

Remember, changes take time and do have a ripple effect.  Testing and debugging is always needed.

Have faith that DE is committed to the interactive feedback process and let not your cynicism convince you that it is all merely for show and perception.

Changes take time and resources.

Let us be Stoic Storm Deities and not Cryo-babies wailing away because we didn't get exactly what we want when we wanted it and stuck our finger into a light socket in defiance.

[Ikusias]

Currently i'm calling for rathuum on the developer's heads or to sic an horde of infested on them.

My opinion on De it's at its lowest since i started playing  more than a year ago.

And they still waste time on Lunaro

Edited June 21, 2016 by Ikusias

[FitzSimmons]

Discharge Suggestion:

Since Volt attribute is electricity, give his discharge to have electricity chain damage effect on enemies affected by discharge.......by weapons......like when enemies that become tesla coil and stunned in that period of time, you can see electricity chaining for the duration of the power right? if Volt hit one of those enemies with weapons, other enemies with that chain electricity around the target will take the damage as well, or at least 50%-75% of the damage dealt to that one target. or at least make electric shield become a requirement to do that thing, need to shoot through electric shield for synergy.

like on the image below, the enemies linked with Volt shooting target by that electricity chain will take damage as well. only on stunned enemies.

 

Volt is like weapon master to me after playing him for years, since most of his powers give benefit to weapon play, like shock stop enemies to help reload and help to approach enemies to melee range, speed buff melee aspd and now reload speed as well, electric shield buff critical damage. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by FitzSimmons

[Ikusias]

Personally i'd like to see the old Overload and Discharge fused together, removing discharge ground only activation. i really miss destroying every light fixture of a tile while zapping enemies to death, i.e. enviromental damage!

Current rework gimped most of Volt powers without giving anything, not what was needed.

[(PSN)Phantoenix]

Speed pick up change is annoying

How about a button combo or something to opt out of Speed, or in? It doesn't seem to be a team power anymore as you have to pick it up and everyone else is busy killing stuff elsewhere or taking their own path to pick it up, people don't all run in a single file line. I'm on console and double tapping L3 doesn't seem like a bad idea since it's the toggle for sprinting anyways so you already want to go fast if you tapping that anyways. As it stands there's no reason to put range mods on him as his shield isn't affected and his ultimate doesn't seem worth building for anyways

[Wolfnrun]

14 hours ago, Aquasurge said:

you make some good points here.honestly you should forward this to @[DE]Rebecca or @[DE]Steve.

  Reveal hidden contents

*(master of the wall of text rants on this thread)

 

#stormriders 

yep. totally agree here - we need some positive energy here for a change.

 

We need to get more attention!!! 

[merryfistmas]

I like how volt has 3 very useful abilities now, and I'm glad that DE appears to be ignoring the mouth breathers that think pressing a single button and trivializing all content is even close to acceptable gameplay. Volt is a ton of fun, has incredible CC, Electric shield is strong without being completely broken like a lot of damage mitigation abilities, and the speed buff is great for speed running and melee users. Hell being able to move faster is useful for everyone, and if your teammates miss your coil, then you'll probably be ahead of them, meaning you can drop it in an obvious spot on the next cast and they probably won't miss it again. I don't use shock all that much, but stunning multiple enemies for a few seconds certainly isn't the worst 25 energy power. On top of that, he has 3 very useful augments, I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about, do you guys honestly have fun using S#&$ like hysteria? Do you like falling into a stupor while playing the game? I know it's a farming game, but at the end of the day I'm playing for fun, and volt is now one of the most fun warframes for me.

[SylvenStar]

39 minutes ago, merryfistmas said:

I like how volt has 3 very useful abilities now, and I'm glad that DE appears to be ignoring the mouth breathers that think pressing a single button and trivializing all content is even close to acceptable gameplay. Volt is a ton of fun, has incredible CC, Electric shield is strong without being completely broken like a lot of damage mitigation abilities, and the speed buff is great for speed running and melee users. Hell being able to move faster is useful for everyone, and if your teammates miss your coil, then you'll probably be ahead of them, meaning you can drop it in an obvious spot on the next cast and they probably won't miss it again. I don't use shock all that much, but stunning multiple enemies for a few seconds certainly isn't the worst 25 energy power. On top of that, he has 3 very useful augments, I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about, do you guys honestly have fun using S#&$ like hysteria? Do you like falling into a stupor while playing the game? I know it's a farming game, but at the end of the day I'm playing for fun, and volt is now one of the most fun warframes for me.

Gonna point out a few flaws in your argument here: 

Firstly: no. Volt does not have incredible CC unless you're on lower levels where there are few enemies. That damage cap that Discharge has? It doesn't just put a halt on the damage, it puts a halt on the CC. Go into a sortie with more than a few enemies around, suddenly Discharge doesn't even work longer than a few seconds. Shock? Okay, so you have an interrupt. That "stun" duration from shock barely lasts long enough to qualify as a stun. Second: Why should Volt have to activate his ability multiple times for it to really achieve its intended use? That's energy devouring.
Next: I agree with you. Electric Shield is fantastic. Except for the part where you constantly pick it up by accident and lose ALL of your energy. Don't believe me? Try reviving someone with an ES next to you. Not so fun because the game randomly chooses whether you interact with the shield or do the revive. Honestly, I just want the riot shield gone, period. It's cool, and a power I'd like to see on something, but it's breaking Volt for me. I never use ES anymore because of how my controls get mucked up.
Lastly: Don't know if you noticed, but Hysteria isn't God-mode, anymore. It's energy drain becomes huge if you hold it for too long, and the range for taking the damage on deactivation is huge, no longer affected by reduced power range. Using it has become a delecate balancing act. Obviously one that favors the player, as, indeed, it is still ridiculous, but it has way more interactivity and isn't perma invulnerable-berzerk mode anymore. Especially now that energy leeches will suck your energy dry while it's active.

Now here's where I'll agree with you: Volt is easily one of my favorite frames to use on level 25 and below, especially level 25 exactly. Beefy enemies aren't killed unless they're near clusters of enemies, the CC lasts a satisfyingly long time, there's the perfect amount of enemies for zipping past enemies with Speed to be challenging but not impossible, and Shock... Well, I still don't use it. Never have, never will, except when I feel like punching one target really hard while Discharge is going, which is... well, rare, especially given that my gun already does that and that Discharge is nigh-useless outside of level 25.
And you're absolutely right: Volt's augments are amazing! Shocking Speed (Which I've yet to get) is huge. It would be nice to see that damage get the same synergy with Discharge as Shock currently has. Capacitance? That's the only reason I even use Discharge anymore. It keeps my shields super healthy when I really need it. Shock Trooper? Absolutely, that buff to allies is one that my group has used a LOT, especially with Saryn's version. It's ridiculous that people ignore these augments. However, you need to consider this: A power should not rely on its augment that much.

I get what you're saying here, and I agree with you on a lot of it somewhat: the problem is that the Riot Shield function is crippling, and he simply isn't useful in mid-late game sections. I'm not saying that he needs some big gigantic rework again, I'm saying that he doesn't SCALE like nearly every other frame does. Obviously the Speed Coil function is a personal preference, but I'm siding with the "I hate it" side. The activation delay has gotten me killed sometimes, and I just can't be the team player I want to be without going crazy dropping coils all over the place, and Volt isn't able to do that without devouring energy restores. Since when should a frame be dependent on a damn consumable? And then the health cap on Discharge. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has something to say about it that isn't negative.

Now here's what I suggest. If we aren't going to rework him again to give him some really, really cool stuff (As in buy time for that so DE can focus on bigger game mechanics and CINEMATIC QUESTS THAT ALSO TAKE TIME TO MAKE) we should at least rebalance him.
First suggestion: That passive is useless. Rather than add damage, have it slowly build stacks to regen energy. Bear with me on this: Yes, that would mean making his powers relatively spammable. Some kind of balance would need to be put in place to fix how broken this would be on lower levels. However: This would help fix the issue with Riot Shield's energy drain, Shock's lack of usefulness except when spammed on higher levels, maintain constant speed and melee speed (His base stats are... laughable.) and actually maintain the CC that Discharge is capable of on higher levels. It wouldn't stack energy super duper fast like Zenurik max energy regen, but when combined with that plus Energy siphon, Volt would be able to choose between constant speed and shocks, popping the occasional shield, or the occasional Discharge. I'm pretty sure this would suffice for Volt players, at least until a new setup for Volt can be made.

Second suggestion:
As I suggested in an earlier post, make that passive interact with powers more, and stop it from consuming stacks on non-power uses. And remove the health cap on Discharge. It's just... dumb. It's less of a limit on using small units as coils than it is limiting the entire power to serving as a simple chunk of "Everybody in this room shares in 6,000 damage!" which means nothing at higher levels.
 

[Brasten]

1 hour ago, merryfistmas said:

I like how volt has 3 very useful abilities now,

As a counter. Volt had 3 very useful abilities before 18.13. The 18.13 update did not change this.

• Shock, was untouched for these changes. Its utility is totally reliant on your energy pool/efficiency (which is an issue on base Volt with only 150 energy). 
• Speed was a team buff. 18.13 saw it nerfed because people complained about getting buffed. Instead of DE creating a full system of opting out of party buff powers in general. As a consolation prize it got a minor buff adding reload speed. Speed's utility to Volt personally was unchanged in 18.13
• Electric Shield got the functionally that was going to be an Augmentation as the Riot mode, at the price of some very heavy penalties. Again, on base Volt (not Prime) that 150 energy pool means you need serious late game buffs to (175% corrupted mod efficiency, and/or Zenurik Focus). For early and mid game players there is no real utility from Riot mode. Even Late game utility is questionable compared to Hall of Mirrors + Eclipse (50 energy, Mirage) or Turbulence (75 energy, Zephyr).

Given all the changes in 18.13 there was basically no real change in Volt's pre-existing utility powers... in relation to himself. The only major change was Overload to Discharge and the stronger (depending on enemy and warframe build) CC component.

The core issues post 18.13 are

1. Speed Coil, is not an effective compromise on how to let people opt out of Volt's Speed buff. The system really needs to be menu driven and universal. The reload speed buff could be increased a bit.
2. Riot Electric Shield is over restricted (4 ways, secondary/melee, drain over time + increased drain with movement, slows movement, duration limited). This needs to be cut down to a "pick two" at the very least. The increased drain on movement really needs to go, and the overall drain needs to be heavily reduced to make it viable to, at minimum, Mid-Game players.
3. Discharge has problems with its base range (noted instances of enemies not getting affected by it, when they should), and its Damage cap breaking the CC very fast, with inconsistent CC based on enemy Armor/Resistance.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Brasten