When everything is nerfed, where is the motivation for the heavy grind of Warframe

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

I don't speak about money I speak about effort. Am I overpowered? Perhaps - but I did a lot for it. I spend more than thousand hours in the game. I joined  raids to get Arcanes, I grinded every Warframe ( or spend money for it), I formad the Warframes up go 7 times and now such a massive nerf of some of my favorite Warframes. 

Why should I do this in the future when every effort (and money)could be destroyed in seconds?

Warframe is an extreme grind game. DE, when you destroy the motivation for grinding, the motivation to be better than the others or the enemies than you destroy the game.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Letter13
Removed Megathread Tag

[MasterBongHere]

because of this nerf i recently play warframe less now and play overwatch and tf2 i only sign in for login rewards now

[FoxyKabam]

psst

drop the megathread tag

[OverlordMcGeek]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Doctor-Blitz- said:

 

Why should I do this in the future when every effort (and money)could be destroyed in seconds?

 

 

The same way you did these past 1k+ hours. Knowing that you signed on to a game that is constantly being changed all the time.

[DuskLegendary]

Hey man, you have a Megathread tag, only the moderators and admins can use that. But I understand your concerns. MMO type games in general usually go through periodic class reworks and the players usually end up having to completely redo their builds, or at the very least tweak them. I myself had to change 3 of my builds after this recent patch, but that's just the way the space cookie crumbles I suppose.

It's not a good feeling pouring money, effort, and above all else, time into your frames and weapon to have them nerfed at a later date. But metas change with class reworks, and like I said, this happens in every MMO type game.

Edited May 29, 2016 by DuskLegendary

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

Don't know. I started to search for Alternatives for the first time in more than one year.

[VKhaun]

The answer is in the question. You're supposed to play a game because it's fun. If you're "grinding" instead of playing for fun nothing is going to make sense to you when the game designers try to make the game more fun and less repetitive.

The devs share some blame for an XP system that lets people sit there on Draco forma'ing their stuff without using it and leaving the star chart stagnant for so long, but at the end of the day improving the game is not going to lead to a situation where "grinding to become OP" will make any sense at all. You're going to be playing a variety of interesting things rather than grinding and your end game is going to be engaging and challenging rather than press4win or perma invulnerability or what have you.

Edited May 29, 2016 by VKhaun

[-Amaterasu-]

I seriously find it hard to believe that you were working that hard with things like cheese frames and Draco, exploiting the system can make anything easy, they're not nerfing things to the ground they're balancing them so people actually consider using other frames rather than just 1 cheese frame for a mission

[izzatuw]

 

Well I don't really play Warframe as much and I was never a huge meta fan so I wouldn't really care

[PikeOrShield]

Well, while 99% damage reduction, a 360 degree aim bot, and an endless supply of energy were most definitely used to grind at one point in this game, it never actually felt like playing the game.  The nerfs are made so people actually need to play the game rather than exploit God-mode mechanics to cheese all levels of content.

[achromos]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Doctor-Blitz- said:

I don't speak about money I speak about effort. Am I overpowered? Perhaps - but I did a lot for it. I spend more than thousand hours in the game. I joined  raids to get Arcanes, I grinded every Warframe ( or spend money for it), I formad the Warframes up go 7 times and now such a massive nerf of some of my favorite Warframes. 

Why should I do this in the future when every effort (and money)could be destroyed in seconds?

Warframe is an extreme grind game. DE, when you destroy the motivation for grinding, the motivation to be better than the others or the enemies than you destroy the game.

 

 

 

While nerf's are essential, if done right.  If done too hard, they can cause feelings like what a lot of people are experiencing above.  Things like this can turn a game that people love, into a bitter sweet experience that people will eventually go elsewhere with especially with the level of grinding min/maxing your build's takes in most cases It isn't a fun thing to have your expectations entirely taken away from you soon after you get your build set-up perfectly.

The issue is that the people who call for these nerfs, do not realize the effects opening their mouths has on other peoples enjoyment of the game.  While I do agree that some of these nerfs were needed, others were questionable.

 

-Trinity's range:  Seriously, has anyone ever played in maps larger then Draco?  There will be times, especially in intercepts that are not Draco where you will absolutely need that range, or people will die.

-Mag's Polarize:  DE did two good things, gave it armor reduction to enemies and made it less instantaneous...  Then butchered it's scaling with a flat number value based on power strength vs the armor/shield's of enemies.  Why not just reduce it's effectiveness by half but keep it's scaling? Heck, I'd be happy with 1/3 It's old Scaling.  There should be no reason I would need to cast Polarize 10 times to reduce a enemies armor...  that's not utility, that's me just continuing to join groups with full CP.

-Mirage's Blind:  I understand entirely why this was given LoS, but... for the amount of time it takes to cast it...  Wouldn't I just bring Excalibur with max range radial blind?  Her hall of mirrors should have been moved up, or eclipse, and given a very slight buff or Prism should really have been given something to make it more then what it is for the energy cost, I mean... is Radial blind Excalibur's 4?

-Volt's rework ability:  Discharge is awesome, ...but why the damage cap?

-Volt's Electric shield:  Fun ability too! ... but... why keep the drain and the timer?

-Volt's Speed change:  Love that it's more of a opt in system, but... maybe increase the range in which you grab it?

 

That's where I stand on the changes, guess I'm weird.

[armedpoop]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Doctor-Blitz- said:

I don't speak about money I speak about effort. Am I overpowered? Perhaps - but I did a lot for it. I spend more than thousand hours in the game. I joined  raids to get Arcanes, I grinded every Warframe ( or spend money for it), I formad the Warframes up go 7 times and now such a massive nerf of some of my favorite Warframes. 

Why should I do this in the future when every effort (and money)could be destroyed in seconds?

Warframe is an extreme grind game. DE, when you destroy the motivation for grinding, the motivation to be better than the others or the enemies than you destroy the game.

 

 

Because you signed an agreement saying "the game can change rapidly whether you like the change or not". (paraphrased) but the point is, you should know that something like this COULD happen at any time. Maybe you shouldnt spend so much time in game if you feel this way?

[RagingGrizzly]

I don't understand how these changes would destroy any kind of motivation anyone has in this game.

Nothing is set in stone in Warframe.

[ranks21]

well now I just sit in region not really playing since the game has no motivating factor to it as before>. I could care less about what has taken place because what others thinks is fun for them  ( baby levels) i'm still waiting for the "mature" warframe to show up.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Doctor-Blitz- said:

Warframe is an extreme grind game.

Not even in the least.

It maybe grindy for gamers now, but the game isn't truly THE GRIND.

A game that is truly grindy is when the devs put in a bot program so players can grind to level or get mats or some extra power. THAT'S grinding!

Warframe has some grind, enough so things aren't simply handed out, but not THAT grindy game.

[Vaxillian]

Well, generally you're supposed to play games for fun.

But hey, everyone's different.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

depends on  what drives you. personally I just enjoy chopping up enemies with a wide arsenal of elaborately decorated, sci-fi weapons. I do it for the enjoyment of virtual Violence and because I find weapons fascinating (that's one thing we humans have pretty much perfected: killing each other.), and also for the Prime stuff when it drops.

I'm well aware that the game can be changed at any time, but most of the time it's been for the better IMO, and as long as it's not too extreme, a nerf to a frame can still be adapted to. for example when Saryn lost her Nuking ability, I went for a Spore build. and with Zenurik I can make an effective Miasma by casting Molt, then Spore, then Miasma. still gets the job done. there will be things I disagree with, but it's better to just say "I think X would have been better, here's why" than "ermahgerhd nerf wert will I do nao?"

 

[Stratego89]

There is no heavy grind in warframe. only tons of stuff to try out and have fun with. Whether you choose to grind it instead of playing one content while having fun and grab what you can along the way as it comes to you is up to you.

The game is for fun- not to grind stuff, and not to be overpowered. Get over it.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

16 minutes ago, Vaxillian said:

Well, generally you're supposed to play games for fun.

But hey, everyone's different.

Yes, but if it's completely running so fast in that enjoyment, that a mission lasts no more than 5 minutes, it's not even a game anymore, too!

[Vaxillian]

4 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Yes, but if it's completely running so fast in that enjoyment, that a mission lasts no more than 5 minutes, it's not even a game anymore, too!

Then the problem isn't nerfing frames, it's the speed of the game like you just said.

[Me.KayOh]

50 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

The devs share some blame for an XP system that lets people sit there on Draco forma'ing their stuff without using it and leaving the star chart stagnant for so long, but at the end of the day improving the game is not going to lead to a situation where "grinding to become OP" will make any sense at all. You're going to be playing a variety of interesting things rather than grinding and your end game is going to be engaging and challenging rather than press4win or perma invulnerability or what have you.

bold part is very true. and through all the complaints about the "changes" that are being made to the warframes, the star chart is the update i've been waiting for since U17. =|. its beginning to feel like its been too long that they've been working towards addressing the grind. too long since they've been working on the star chart re-work and blowing up the void.

too long.

is the grinding habit leading to ppl cheesing warframes and abilities? is it poor level design? is it poor enemy scaling? is nerfing really the option that will solve the root of the problem? what is the root of the problem? the exponential increases that early mods like serration gave us? which then lead to a demand for OP mobs? which then led to mobs being too OP and cheesing their own powers against players? which led to players cheesing warframe powers and abilities themselves?

still waiting for the star chart. i want to earn my loot. but i dont want to be bored. i want a challenge. but i dont want to be killed in one hit or flogged around from one grappling hook to another. I want to have fun. but i dont want to be invincible. mobs should matter yea. but warframe powers and abilities need to matter as well.

 

tenno are the people who are saving the universe in this game. we matter.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

These nerfs don't bother me too much other than Excalibur being gimped against Sentients and Trinity getting her normal shovel to the head. What really concerns me is the feeling of "what's the point of power kits if they can't be used in environments where they you'd think they would be useful?"

Sure Ash needs a rework if he's suffocating the other players from getting kills. But why stop Wu-Kong from using his Cloudwalker to pass through laser grids in Spy Vaults? That would make his power kit somewhat of a good tool and different way to play Spy missions.

Instead they want you to use Movement 2.0. Okay, fine...but then it becomes this annoying frustration, why even bother having powers if we are not supposed to use them? Loki's switch teleport is only a troll perk, instead of an option to circumvent vault laser grids in what would appear to be the perfect reason for its creation? That's just really stupid and petty. 

These powers constantly need re-works from nerfs to buffs. Seems more an headache for both the Devs and the player base. And they are a source of division since one type of player seems to want to control the other's perception of enjoyment. 

So my issue with nerfs stems more along the lines of the so called cheese, which is really a ploy to remove powers in general, yet keep them around and useless because of ...I guess nostalgia and marketing? 

[BCAW]

This game needs to strike a good balance between challenging, fun and rewarding. As of now, the game content covers two out of the three at any given moment, leading to the severe backlashes from the community in response to changes.

[-Temp0-]

1 hour ago, MasterBongHere said:

because of this nerf i recently play warframe less now and play overwatch and tf2 i only sign in for login rewards now

Same. I never liked pvp games but Overwatch looks and feels a) great b) obviously, Blizzard has a better understanding what the words like "balance" and "beta" mean so I'm giving it a try now. It came in a perfect time, lol.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Vulpei]

Why do people feel the need to complain about the changes to the frames?  Like, did you honestly believe that god-mode wasn't going to get nerfed at some point?  It's something that shouldn't be in any serious games.  It's not that DE is just nerfing frames to see your reactions, they're doing it for the well-being of the game.  Keep in mind that frames aren't the only ones being changed, enemies will be changed too.