Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[MarikBentusi]

Suggestion for reducing Checking "moshpits"

A free ball can currently create stunlock moshpits in which everyone checks everyone until someone hits the ball by accident and the situation is reset. To counter this, I would propose adopting L4D2's shoving mechanic: Every time you shove, your "fire rate" decreases (visualized with a reload circle), and it only resets after a couple seconds of not using the ability.

It's basically a softer version of cooldowns. It encourages selective use of the ability without preventing a player from panic-smashing the button a few times in those intense moments, but more importantly it ensures mosh pits will die down relatively quickly, and players that think ahead get to decide their outcomes.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Kharseth

[Pepz]

I got some suggestions so take it as constructive:

First, penalize players that leave a match with 30 minutes without entering a new match.

Second, been getting on match where is a 2 vs 4, really unfair with this bugged system.

Third, consider making a server for lunaro or quit the p2p and make avalaible for people to host a dedicate server for it (like Killing Floor).

Forth, save the conclave points if cap is reached, losing 2k points just because im not traveling every minute to Tenshin just to check what my standing is, is really stupid, (Notice: it may not give it but it discount it from the daily, a real fraud in there) make it so the points accumulate but only can buy things on my conclave title, this may be also introduced for the syndicates as well, but syndicate stading are more easy than conclave so..

Fifth, everything is so dark, i realize that is good so we can see the ball and the goal, but cant see enemies.

Six, the arrow pointing where the ball is is useless, doesnt work.

Seven, an UI that let us know we have the ball, i know this may sound dumb but sometimes i dont even know i got it when is chaos near the goal, just see everyone pressing e aiming the goal.

Eight, change the FOV, is to close of my WF that is really annoying.

Last, i joined a match that were losing 5-0 on 1:30, a great way to waste my time on that match, again, to avoid this, read the first issue, if you make that rule, dont put people on missing matches, we would not deserve to be penalized because the system decided to put us on a losing match of 5-0.

 

I may enjoy playing Lunaro on private session with friends, but so far, Lunaro just bring stress rather than joy, cant tolerate the lag, unbalance, joining losing matches by a great difference on little time (5-0 the first and a half minute).

[DALOS]

1 minute ago, Pepz said:

Seven, an UI that let us know we have the ball, i know this may sound dumb but sometimes i dont even know i got it when is chaos near the goal, just see everyone pressing e aiming the goal.

I know that feel

[notlamprey]

33 minutes ago, Maicael said:

I just did a match and had it curve to the right. I've gone in the practice arena and had it curve both directions.

The curve of your pass seems to be dependent on which direction your frame is looking.

If it's looking to the left, the lunaro will curve left. If it's looking to the right, the lunaro curves right. Another way to look at it would be "camera position relative to slide direction," but that's trickier to explain :p

[DALOS]

35 minutes ago, Maicael said:

I just did a match and had it curve to the right. I've gone in the practice arena and had it curve both directions.

Oh ok. I figured it out, if you HOLD than it curves right

[Tsoe]

We need this

_

[DALOS]

8 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

The curve of your pass seems to be dependent on which direction your frame is looking.

If it's looking to the left, the lunaro will curve left. If it's looking to the right, the lunaro curves right. Another way to look at it would be "camera position relative to slide direction," but that's trickier to explain :p

No, if you tap it it goes left, hold and it goes right

[notlamprey]

3 minutes ago, DALOS said:

No, if you tap it it goes left, hold and it goes right

If that's the case, bummer.

Camera facing relative to slide would have been much more elegant and intuitive.

[DALOS]

Just now, notlamprey said:

If that's the case, bummer.

Camera facing relative to slide would have been much more elegant and intuitive.

no, that would be more work.

[Tomppak]

I was kinda excited - A pvp mode that sounds balanced from the start (no powers, no weapons, no killing) - so maybe I could try conclave now too?

Problems: The matchmaking is either broken, or really poor. I joined in to a game with 1 player - and got assigned to the same team. It was 2 of us vs nobody.

The other time, it was me vs 2 others. There wasn't really anything I could do.

The next match, it was somehow 4 of us versus 2 or 3 of them - I'm not sure of their numbers, but I know there was 4 of us, which is strange, since I thought it was 3vs3. Maybe that isn't implemented yet? I joined the game pretty late.

The rest of my games involved me, alone, throwing the ball into the goal for 10 minutes for 4k conclave standing. Easy? Yes. Fun? No.

And then there was this one time where I joined a match, and our side had already scored a lot more points than the other side - Uh, okay, I'll take this win, but there wasn't much to be done, the other side had apparently given up already. I know I would have been pretty annoyed had I joined the losing side in the middle of a match...

 

Aside from technical issues described above: Just... Why? As it stands, I don't think this adds anything to the game. It feels very separate from everything else, kinda like a minigame - it doesn't affect anything, really, and as far as I know, nothing I do affects it. I could go there and win (or more likely, lose) and get rewarded for points that... uhm... Buy a random void key pack or some cosmetic items if I do this for a really long time..? It's just... Not worth it. Also, the practice could be better - maybe add an option to add in a few bots to your/opponents side, to practice actual tackling/passing/etc.

Also, I assume that the "throw" being binded to the "melee channel" button instead of "fire weapon" button is a bug.

[Haldos]

I've had a good handful, but not an overly large amount of matches under my belt, so take what I say with the focus of "This is from my personal perspective, and others may not have issue with it" and a grain of salt. I'll try to focus on the things that I found to be a bit confusing and hindered my experience, while making amendments should they change as I continue to play this fun new mode.

Constructive feedback:

The balls location:

Spoiler

When someone has it, you can see a stream of energy which is great and when it falls off screen, the arrow does its job of redirecting. When someone doesn't have it and it's not unstable, I've found it's a bit small and hard to track. Perhaps giving it a different color than white or a more noticeable aura would help.

 

Identifying players and teams:

Spoiler

In Conclave, opposing players have a symbol above their head to let you know who is friend and who is foe.  In Lunaro, energy color defines this but I've had a lot of trouble identifying which is which. Orange and Blue are good colors by all means, but your Warframe color outshines your energy dots. Many of my suggestions involve adding an aura and I don't want to completely clutter the UI and space with the same symbols in Conclave, but it would be great to have a more clear distinction of teams. When joining a match in progress currently, you are not really given a whole lot of indication, considering your energy color is a bit hard to see and while I believe you start on the side of the field you belong to, the hectic nature of the game can easily get you turned around and not understand your position. Hitting Tab definitely helps as it shows you exactly what team you are, but then it's hard to tell who is who while you're playing.

Passing:

Spoiler

The biggest thing I've noticed is players, myself included, missing passes because we weren't aware it was coming. I do not play with others on voice chat, so communication is very limited, if non existent. The UI showing we are locked onto a player to pass is great and works well, however, if the player isn't watching you and the ball at the moment, it makes passing much more difficult to execute. Having some kind of marker to tell a player "You are being targeted for a pass" might help players understand their team mates better in order to, at least, be ready to act. Can't say it will be a perfect pass, given all the mechanics involved and how fast paced it is, but the right tools can go a long way in terms of team work.

Checking and clusters:

Spoiler

 

As Checking is a very useful and sometimes vital part of Lunaro, there are often moments when players will dog pile into a group and spam the check button which tends to make things a bit more chaotic than beneficial. It almost appears to be instinctual as melee is ingrained our playstyles mixed with the role of checking. It becomes less about accuracy and focus, and more about spamming it because you can't see passed the flailing body parts to know where the ball is and if anyone is holding it. I kind of feel like the kicks should be removed and only allow the charge, at least when it's used once, it forces the player away from the point of interest so it doesn't last for more than a moment. If they were removed, the charge would have to be on a small cool down as the kicks keep players from being able to charge endlessly. I imagine putting the cool down to match how long it takes the kicks to complete would be the simplest approach.

Beyond this, I feel like being able to use checking as a dodging maneuver to quickly dart either forward, backward or to the side is a pretty interesting idea. Currently, I'm not seeing a defensive strategy when it comes to being checked. You simply have to be out of range of it at all times. When you aren't able to use bullet jumping to keep the enemies away, they can very easily catch up and check you moments after you head towards a goal. I've seen pass strategy devolve into "Lob the ball as hard as you can away from your goal and figure it out from there" because of how easy it is to be checked. I don't think checking needs to be changed, but having a defensive maneuver to counter it seems appropriate.

Perhaps having a successful check resulting in a shock wave that pushes everyone but the player checked and the person being checked. A spit ball idea. I really like checking as an idea, but it seems too easy and reliable to do it in rapid succession for it to go "unchecked" if you'll pardon the pun.

 

Picking up the ball and when you have the ball:

Spoiler

I noticed at times I try to throw a ball that isn't in my hand (either checked or missed the pick up) and am looking around for the ball when I have it. Any chance for a more distinct notification? Your paddle glows or shines as any auditory cues tend to get muffled by the rest of the action? Also picking up the ball via the "attraction" function doesn't seem to be very helpful. I've had instances of bullet jumping into the air to catch a pop fly and I can't seem to do so unless I physically touch it. I was under the impression that you would only drop the ball when you have it and bullet jump so I should be able to jump and catch it with the attract function. No one else was near by while I was doing this, so I find it strange that the attraction is so narrow. I feel this is true even for regular situations while not bullet jumping. The attraction just doesn't work unless you're already half a meter away, so you might as well physically make contact anyway. Unclear if a bug, but it seems like the attraction should be a bit wider. Perhaps each person activating it reduces the power of them. 150% (of current size) if no one is around attracting within its range, -50% reduction size (Reduced to current size) if more than one players are trying to attract it at the same time.

Joining games in progress, and premature abandonment:

Spoiler

 

I would say 8/10 of the matches I took part in were joined after the match started with a respectable 2 of them experiencing a player leaving the match after the half way mark. Players are going to leave in the middle of matches sometimes. Can't be helped whether it's justified or not. I feel like if a player joins mid game while teams are even, they should be benched in the lobby until either a player joins to even the team, a player leaves or the half time mark is reached as it was stated that no players may join after that time is reached and having a player stuck in Limbo until the game is finished is not fair.

If a player leaves prior to a game being finished, I feel like losing the experience of the match is enough of a punishment, but it may not be sufficient to halt the problem. I'm afraid I do not have any critique on that. I do feel if a player leaves, the teams should be evened out somehow, either rotating players in and out of the bench after each score or something to avoid uneven teams becoming the make or break situation for this mode.

 

Vision:

Spoiler

It's always been on the tip of my tongue while playing Lunaro but I feel like the camera needs to pulled back further. This has never been an issue for Warframe or even Conclave from my limited but fairly good experience, but keeping track of things that are moving so fast feels like having a larger view might help understand what's going on.

Time vs Points:

Spoiler

I consider this to be more of a personal situation so I don't think you'll find many talking about it, but I feel like the game should end if a certain number of points is reached. Unfortunately I don't have much to offer in terms of what I think should be the limits. If it's only points, you could have a game potentially go on forever, but a time limit can make games feel like they're dragging on, especially if you're on the losing end. (No shame in saying I had a 12-0 half way point in a match and it did feel like a Sisyphean task (though we gave it our best to turn it around each time). Again, just sort of a personal view. The way it works now is fine by me.

 

Positive feedback: This is definitely a  fast paced, hectic sport and it really gets me excited while playing it, where the Conclave didn't. Keeping things in small arenas helps everyone stay focused. Looking at how hectic 3x3 is, I can only imagine the issues I'm having now being amplified. 3 feels appropriate.

[Monchopin]

a few suggestions i wrote down from the few times i've played

* Dedicated servers, of course - depending on the connection of xX-BrazilDestroyer-Xx isn't fun, and it seems to get even worse if you're on the Host's opposing team
* CLEAR team indicators - if you join a match after it has started, the team name doesn't show up and you don't get to know what your team is until you hold the ball and see the HUD or open the mission progress menu, it'd be nice to have something at the top with a logo or any kind of indication of what team i'm on
* Faster movement and flight speed of both players and the ball, it kinda feels like swimming more than anything
* Better air control - specifically bringing back the backwards mid-air roll could be extremely helpful, being unable to stop mid-air the way you'd do with melee equipped really hurts the air control
* Less intrusive or faster climb animation to the poles, as they sometimes get in the way
* Changing the "tackles" into something that doesn't end up being a clusterfuck when all 6 players are mashing E at eachother in a 5 meter radius without losing the functionality of being able to steal and charge the ball
* Better controls for the passes to avoid those same clusters.
* Changing the aim reticule to something more easily understandable - or at least explaining what the aim symbol is supposed to mean
* Slightly larger goal rings, but not too much

Edited June 17, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Removed swearing

[Sunfaiz]

21 hours ago, Multicom-EN- said:

DE have not "failed", it's just not perfected yet. I can't wait for improvements to this gamemode :)

Yeah Keep waiting Im sure it'll only take as much time as conclave or archwing will.

[Aenris]

So far, i only have three complains:

1) Sometimes when someone joins the game, it selects the team at random, sometimes leaving the winning team with 3 people and the losing with 1. I think it should always prioritize the losing team to give them a chance to recover. also, is it possible to make the matchmaking allow joining the game in pairs? that way both teams will have the same quantity of players, always, and won't be unfair

2)Leaving a game should have a penalty of some kind. It happens way too often that people quit because they're losing. This shouldn't be allowed. Good sportsmen should keep playing until the end. This is specially annoying when the host leaves and we need to do a migration.

3)Melee attacks shouldn't be spammed. Most of the time three people starts spamming E in one or two opponents. I think some kind of cooldown should be added, or just leave the tackle/dash and no extra kicks or punches. 

[Scottie_Auren]

Thank you, [DE].

^{I've heard players say write several times recently that they don't understand why some of us feel the need to thank those involved. When you've been around as long as I have, you can look past individual decisions to see the a larger trend line. Too me, and many others, it is clear that the folks at Digital Extremes pour their heart into Warframe. They genuinely are trying to do right by their playerbase. When [DE]Steve said at PAX(?) recently (watched the steam online), "Thank you for allowing me to work on my dream job.", he truly meant it. There are bumps and stressors, of course, but the joy and enthusiasm and dedication they bring to their work is infectious. So again, thank you.} 

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Suggestions:

• Remove the checking component of Left-click (whatever its intent, it is being used solely for stunlocking or griefing)
• In your team's zone, remove (or lengthen) the 3-second timer on holding the Lunaro.
• When community hosted servers are implemented, allow the owner to set team limits (among other settings)
  • allow a clan's Dojo to be made available through a dedicated server
  • add a new buildable room, a Lunaro field
  •  = community run tournaments
• Force players to complete the Practice level once before queuing. ("You can lead a horse to water, but cant make it drink. and hold its head under.") The number of rage-outs I've witnessed because someone didn't know what their buttons did is unreal.

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[Witchydragon]

Not a big deal, it's kinda cute honestly. Adds a little bit of time in between scores without being boring. It also makes for better gifs.

[ImGerik]

I like the replays, but I feel it should follow the ball, not the player.

[TyrannisPax]

Well. Just played a game that ended 8 - 7, Moon being the winner. It was bloody brilliant and lots of fun, I did notice as the game went on the team started to act somewhat together without any prompting; passing to each other near to goal, checking enemies around our ball carrier, etc etc. Maybe a system to let teammates know you're open to a pass? You press a key and you get an icon above your head, that sort of thing.

Overall this gamemode has the potential to be really fun, and a nice break from the constant combat of other missions. I'd say DE should give this a lot of attention and flesh it out a lot more.

[Doctor_Grayfield]

Been getting scored on a lot I'm guessing?

I love them.

[vinx909]

i love the idea, but i think it needs quite a bit of work. perhaps something like:
- increase the catching area, currently it is pretty much impossible to intercept the ball.
- remove attacking to make them drop the ball.
- to offset this maybe add a timer or a max travel distance for holding the ball (or both, but be generous with time)
- make the darker ground area smaller.
- do not allow the attacking team to enter the darker area.
- to compensate maybe increase the size of the goal.
- perhaps a team colored outline around players so you know who is a team mate and who isn't

this should stop the game being about who can disarm the best and more about team play. by not allowing the attackers close to the goal it wont be as much of a cluster F*** and it should stop the game for being constant goal attacks because if you do so the other team has the ball.

and a strange idea: let someone play as the host but not take the place of a player. that way no team has an advantage. give them a small reward for it. maybe 100 credits per minute (might need changing, i don't know), and 10 if they stand by to host a game while no host is needed. but this will make a lot of people AFK host. perfect, that makes sure you always have hosts for lunaros (maybe also a good idea for conclave).

once again i love the idea and i think it can really work, but it needs some improvements. (thanks for reading all this)

Edited June 16, 2016 by vinx909

[Godzelda123]

I keep getting this bug were I can't throw the ball, or do a shoulder tackle. Basically my arm is stuck in an animation. 

[mrrobotto67]

Just now, Nedow40 said:

After playing for some hours, I already fell that this new exciting mode is going to get cheesed just like the others. Stun Lock, Lunaro Steal from the very start of the game and many other things. So I came here to try give some directions to make this mode less impossible to play without cheesing.
These are some fixes that I think it can help the balance of this new mode:

1) Remove LMB Check. You can only check with the melee button. This will prevent stun lock and the melee stun fest.

2) Melee charge need a cooldown. Nothing like 10 secs, but should be more than 1,5 seconds. This will encourage people to pass the ball.

3) Shooting the ball needs to have a separated command from passing the ball. I suggest that you shoot the ball while pressing the RMB to "charge". Making the LMB a "pass only" button.

4) All players Arcatas don't work UNTIL the other team touch the ball in the "after-goal" state. Example: If Team Moon don't touch the Lunaro, Team Sun can't use they Arcatas.

5) All players can't camp in the enemy goal while in the "after-goal" state. We need skill, not cheese. Example: If Team Moon don't shoot the ball or lose the ball after geting it in the "after-goal" state, Team Sun can't enter its goal by any form.

I agree 100% with you specially #5 and #3. 

[blasron]

i try it for a couple of game and its not my thing.

Some thing i have seen:

The ball can't be intercept.

Tthe best way to move around is bullet and tackle.

There's little reason to play goal keeper.

The player to player host matching is still crap.

There is almost no reward (30 conclave point for a boring 10 min of game play its laughable).

No punishment for leaving. (I did it at least 3 time and i was back in a game few min later).

 

So i found it boring to play and i see no reason to return in there (or in warframe). On a daylies basis

[Gabbynaru]

Another suggestion that came to my mind. Can we please get an option to lock our camera onto the Lunaro? I don't know where the thing is most of the time, and the UI doesn't help (particularly if the ball is to my right/left, the arrow doesn't show). I think that would also solve the problem of not knowing if you have the ball, cause we could get free cam when we have the ball, but locked camera when we don't.

[Andrew016]

Many games I join are pretty unbalanced, either 2v3 or even worse 1v3 and game has no apparent balancing system built-in. A lot of people are rage-quitting without any punishments... So some cooldowns that would block people from playing Conclave/Lunaro for certain time (like in CS:GO Competitive).

Also, I was skeptical about Lunaro from the day it was announced, but it turned very well and it's fun to play. There are some flaws, yeah, but overall, it's good!