Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[CosmicSolar]

The Immunity to stagger has to be the most ineffective attempt you could possibly make in stopping check spamming. Just played a game where not only is checking in mid-air whilst in possession is a huge near unhindered movement advantage but to make it worse, they are now immune to the one counter there is to it at the moment. My team got scored on 5 times in a row thanks to that. And as a result we also stooped to that pathetic level to score, since there was no other way to do it. Passing still offers little strategic benefit since check spamming can still occur in the zone has yet to be addressed. It's no longer a "sport" once you provide any sort of "immunity". Please stop with these sad "patch-ups" if you want this to be a "sport" then adjust it like one. Suggestions in my thread and previous post are all based on concepts that real life sports use to prevent any sort of exploitation of mechanics or just sad over-sights from occurring. PVP is never getting better since the fastest anything will always come out on top, but you can still some-what salvage Lunaro. You just need to treat it like the "sport" you claim to want it to be.

[Aeriax]

Is there any chance that there will be a look at team balance? Because for my first attempt, it started a 2v2 game. Due to actually not being too bad and having looked at the tutorial I managed to play fairly well, and my team got a lead.

And then, suddenly, a new person joined, onto the other team. It was then 2v3. This removed any real possibility of victory, and the Lunaro was on our half of the court for more or less the remainder of the game. You cannot be both offensive and defensive enough against a team that has more people than you.

[Wolfchild07]

I get literally nothing for playing a whole game. Should get at least 2-3k conclave for playing, otherwise, it's a waste of my time. Hard to score any goals when I'm constantly "checked". Won't be going back until I actually see that we get some conclave for participation.

[Yaerion]

"You can be tackled only if you hold the Lunaro."

~The End~

 

I just wanted to suggest something simple, among all the other great but complex suggestions I've seen here and there. My experience of the knockdowns/bumps is that it destroys the purpose of the game mode itself (a fairplay game with no agressive aspects like in the other Conclave modes), in addition to the entertainment of its players. We are not in the Lunaro to fight, but to challenge each other. Let's focus on the catch of the Lunaro, let's forget the unnecessary violence.

Being able to make loose the Lunaro is a key feature, for sure. Punching people who don't have it is a game-breaker.

Thank you for considering this, and for creating the Lunaro ;) I'm not a Conclave player, but I enjoy this game mode so far, even with my poor reactivity. A big thank you too, to all the players who are fairplay, nice and tolerant with those who are not used to the Conclave requirements/reflexes.

PS: also, the regular Standing earnings are a tad too low, imo.

[mrrobotto67]

Just now, Yaerion said:

"You can be tackled only if you hold the Lunaro."

~The End~

 

I just wanted to suggest something simple, among all the other great but complex suggestions I've seen here and there. My experience of the knockdowns/bumps is that it destroys the purpose of the game mode itself (a fairplay game with no agressive aspects like in the other Conclave modes), in addition to the entertainment of its players. We are not in the Lunaro to fight, but to challenge each other. Let's focus on the catch of the Lunaro, let's forget the unnecessary violence.

Being able to make loose the Lunaro is a key feature, for sure. Punching people who don't have it is a game-breaker.

Thank you for considering this, and for creating the Lunaro ;) I'm not a Conclave player, but I enjoy this game mode so far, even with my poor reactivity. A big thank you too, to all the players who are fairplay, nice and tolerant with those who are not used to the Conclave requirements/reflexes.

PS: also, the regular Standing earnings are a tad too low, imo.

I agree 100% with you, the issue is that big part of the community gives 2 you know what about fair play and they are gonna exploit what ever is exploitable in order to get that reputation in conclave.

[Aquasurge]

2 hours ago, Yaerion said:

"You can be tackled only if you hold the Lunaro."

~The End~

simple yet effective. +1

[CosmicSolar]

4 hours ago, Yaerion said:

"You can be tackled only if you hold the Lunaro."

~The End~

 

I just wanted to suggest something simple, among all the other great but complex suggestions I've seen here and there. My experience of the knockdowns/bumps is that it destroys the purpose of the game mode itself (a fairplay game with no agressive aspects like in the other Conclave modes), in addition to the entertainment of its players. We are not in the Lunaro to fight, but to challenge each other. Let's focus on the catch of the Lunaro, let's forget the unnecessary violence.

Being able to make loose the Lunaro is a key feature, for sure. Punching people who don't have it is a game-breaker.

Thank you for considering this, and for creating the Lunaro ;) I'm not a Conclave player, but I enjoy this game mode so far, even with my poor reactivity. A big thank you too, to all the players who are fairplay, nice and tolerant with those who are not used to the Conclave requirements/reflexes.

PS: also, the regular Standing earnings are a tad too low, imo.

Unfortunately that doesn't solve the problem that is check spamming. People will merely preemptively check spam a general area. Which is actually what they are basically doing now. I also think conclave standing earned needs to be a base amount plus extra based on stats - Goals, Steals, Interceptions, Saves. This will make the currently cancer inducing game ever so slightly bearable.

[Pazgabear]

As most have said before, the recent changes to checking didn't reduce the spam at all

The perma knockdown is fixed, but people are still not passing the ball around, simply because they often don't have enough time to do so before getting checked

I still think a small cooldown would make the E tackle be more of a strategic choice than a spam key

[Kaotyke]

7 hours ago, Yaerion said:

"You can be tackled only if you hold the Lunaro."

~The End~

 

While this would be good before the Hotfix 4, as it currently is: its bearable, and tackling an enemy that does not have the Lunaro can give an advantage:

An enemy that is getting too close of a teammate that has the ball to buy them time to either gain distance or line up a shot.

Or stagger the one making themselves as a goalie when you know someone of the team is about to throw.

I've done both of those situations and it can be usefull and can not stunlock anyone, you have to time it right because they become immune to stagger for a while after the first hit.

The problem right now is the people jumping into the defense area after they scored and being able to get another goal right afterwards.

1 hour ago, Pazgabear said:

As most have said before, the recent changes to checking didn't reduce the spam at all

The perma knockdown is fixed, but people are still not passing the ball around, simply because they often don't have enough time to do so before getting checked

I still think a small cooldown would make the E tackle be more of a strategic choice than a spam key

I dont know, I've been in full games, and the problem I had with not passing is because most of the time there's no one to pass to at the front.

When I see a teammate that is on the other side of the map or ahead of me, I WILL pass, but I need opportunities to do so.

Giving it a cooldown would also be a double-edged sword, since those who grab the ball will often use the same Check to get out of the group and/or get some distance.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Princess_Loona]

Until it gets dedicated servers.. I dont even know why anyone is playing the whole bloody conclave. 

Out of 5 games i tried to play, 2 ended in failed host migration, 1 failed join and other 2 - simply host dominating everyone. 

I would say more, i have 2 or 3 pages of the stuff but hey, you said no dev-bashing.

[Tricky5hift]

Matches shouldn't even start until each team is full.

Kinda tired of playing with unbalanced teams all the time.

Also AFKers need to be removed more quickly so a new person can join.

[PseudoSphere]

I finally got a chance to play after the most recent patch and I must say it's a HUGE step in the right direction. I enjoyed the gameplay despite any number of other factors that could be better. I quit PvP in any game a long time ago, even before I started playing Warframe, due to it's intensity and seemingly innate toxic environment. After the most recent reduction in check spamming, this mode is relaxing enough that I can play a few games here and there without feeling the anxiety and frustration I usually get from PvP. I still don't exactly understand how the system works(sometimes I get knocked down, sometimes I don't) but I can at least get away from other players between stuns with plenty of time to get back into the game.

Don't get me wrong this mode could still use loads of improvement if what the devs on the dev stream said about tournament play is actually one of your goals; but the way it plays now finally feels like most of what I play Warframe for: relaxing and fun with a few bugs to work out.

Thank you.

[Ikusias]

18 hours ago, Yaerion said:

 My experience of the knockdowns/bumps is that it destroys the purpose of the game mode itself (a fairplay game with no agressive aspects like in the other Conclave modes), in addition to the entertainment of its players. We are not in the Lunaro to fight, but to challenge each other. Let's focus on the catch of the Lunaro, let's forget the unnecessary violence.

Being able to make loose the Lunaro is a key feature, for sure. Punching people who don't have it is a game-breaker.

As quoted, this extreme tendency to contact ruins this game mode: in the few matches i've tried it was a slugfest, there was nothing of friendly or relaxed, only increasing annoyance due to the various problems I've cited in my previous post and the impression that the other team was there to actually try and kick you down for good. The constant "E" spamming started to seem more like schoolyard bullying than some kind of legit move in a sport, making for a rather unpleasant experience.

[Xanderplayer]

What we need is a RANKED and FOR FUN option because you can't play it and have fun because apparently, we have some, 'mom's-basementers' no-lifing to the point where every match I join regardless of the team the other team ends up curving the ball around everything from crazy distances and winning 27 to nothing. It's really a drag that I can't embrace the awesomeness of this game type simply because I'm not a, "master-lunaro-expert". If you haven't played and gotten good yet, sorry man, too late for you. The people skulking around are too good, so that's just great, and good, fun matches are few and far between. We need something to filter out all of the better players like a ranking system, match via skill-level... something... please. I'm back again to the "no point in playing conclave" mindset.

[Wolfchild07]

Give us energy. Checking costs energy. Then you have to wait for it to regen before you can do it again. How much energy/regen and how much checking costs...I dunno.

[Larred]

as someone who has loved the ever living daylights out of this mode my 2 credits on the matter are

A) passing isnt encouraged enough: because check spam still kind of occurs, im not noticing it much today at least

B) snowballing can be catastropic, im guilty of this, make a two pointer second ball drops back in dunk be flying out for replay cam repeat until i get stopped and make 5-6 points that way (name in warframe is the same if you have played me and i did this to you i am sorry)

[Zagil]

Why isn't there better match making??? I just want to pick up and play with two of my friends as a team but we always end up on different teams. All the matches end up really one sided too so someone always ends up salty and we stop playing cause we can't be on the same team. A lunaro court in the dojo would also be really fun if we did want to play against each other. I absolutely love the game but it's a little rough around the edges. I feel like the host almost always wins because there's almost always so much lag. I think you need to invest in some dedicated servers if you really want this to take off.

[monekeyfart]

Why i think instant knockdown on check should be brought back.

So i understand that a lot of players complained about the checkfest in Lunaro. Now from a player perspective i understand this; People were upset that you kept catching the ball just to have it knocked out of your hands again before you even realised you had it. The reason this happened was that new players grouped up on the Lunaro and kept spamming E, resulting in the checkfest everyone hated. However, having played on a more advanced level, i can say that this is only true because nobody really knows what to do, which is completely concievable since the new (amazing) gamemode is but a week old at this point. 

In a game with more advanced players, there was no checkfest because everyone didn't go for the Lunaro, only one person or one of each team went for it. And when there were two people on it, whoever either dodged the check or checked first, got the ball. This was completely skill based.

So: The problem?
People were being checked too often¹ (This is important, as you will soon learn).  On a lower skill level people were annoyed by constantly having the ball taken away because of the previously explained checkfest.
This wasn't a huge problem amongst more advanced players since checkfests rarely occured. 

Now, to the patch, and your solution: making sure people were being checked all the time (?). The patch notes in Lunaro Hotfix 4, posted by [DE]Megan, made changes to disable stunning for 2 seconds after being "knocked down" (this applies to just being stunned as well, we'll get to this later), however you could still have the ball knocked out of your hands. This was to make sure that people couldn't be incapacitated as often, whilst not gaining immunity for cheap goals. The second change i wanted to bring to light was the elimination of instant knockdown on a check. instead, people would just get stunned (a far less severe punishment for getting in someones way). This meant you were back in the action before you could say "Lunaro". 

So why didn't this work? Well i already explained the problem. I also explained your solution, which was the complete opposite of what needed to be done.
And if you haven't already realised why, i'll try to give you concrete examples of why this change didn't work. 

To sum up the problem, written boldly in the third paragraph¹, people were being checked too often in games where players were less skilled (also stun locking, we'll get to that, don't worry). But by reducing the time players were incapacitated and gave them immunity against stuns for 2 seconds after being checked. you only made the problem worse. because players could now check more often, because being checked had a lesser consequence. 
And in games where players knew what they were doing and team play was of essence, the factor of skill was diluted and players now rely more on who can check more rather than being patient, precise, methodical and systematic.

Stun locking: you cringe at bare the sight of this villainous phrase. It is a rotten tactic practiced only by the furious souls of humiliated tenno. Since this has been dealt with, i am not shy to explain the phenomenon: Pre-patch you could check someone over and over again, rendering them completely immobilized for the duration, the victim could do naught but wait and wail for their teammates to aid. This is the only mechanical problem our beloved developers managed to fix in this recent patch, with the implimentation of a short immunity, which backfired on checkfests.

What do i suggest?
Simple. Bring back the instant knockdown on check. This will minimize checkfests as players would be incapacitated for longer, giving someone time to escape. Skill will also have a greater impact, since punishment for being careless is going to be greater. However: keep the 2 second immunity from stuns after being knocked down. This was a great implementation, only discouraged by the fast recovery time, which would be increased with the return of knockdowns.

 

I normally wouldn't write this on any other forum, or to any other game developer. But i have massive respect for the Warframe devs since i know that they are dedicated to making a game that the players want. I also write this because it's the most fun i've had in this game (and i've had some good fun in this game).

Have a great day. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by monekeyfart

[goldenarrow]

Yeah, the checking can really result in an issue.  I also agree with the matchmaking ensuring that teams are balanced etc

An issue I've found is that when shooting near the goal, fairly often, you end up recatching the ball before it's moved at all without intending to.  This can be really confusing.

[(PSN)SaviorsBlood]

Griball and Blitzball's love child, Lunaro lol.

[goldenarrow]

Would a 2v2 Lunaro gamemode be viable?  Whenever I got put in a 2v2 game it felt like the entire tactical landscape had changed, and the game was much different to play, such that I'd love to have that as an option.

[Aquasurge]

ummm, can we have recruiting chat availiable while in lunaro until we have dedicated pvp servers? would be a temporary solution to the problem of match making.

[Trichouette]

What you could expect from lunaro :

• Teamplay & strategy
• Pass
• Scoring from mid-long range, uncharged/charged/curved

What we got :

• Players playing alone by dashing and dribbling across the map
• Melee & dash (or check) everywhere and randomly without end
• Players scoring from 0.1m far, players that go into your defense zone and check the ball to goal right after the previous goal and even before you can grab the lunaro, curve boal unusable because by the time your frame spin you get checked 3 time.
• You can't keep the lunaro more than 0.2 sec when too many players are around because everybody spam E like crazy

 

How to fix :

• Remove the ability to dribble and/or remove the dash when you have the ball and/or remove the ability to dash again right after touching the ground
• Check no longer take the ball away from an enemy, only the 2 kicks after the check can take the ball away from them (and the M1 hit) OR give check a 2 sec cooldown
• Force the enemy to leave the defense zone until the defensive team take the ball OR force them to leave the half part of the map to get their weapon & ability back
• Make the spin animation of curve ball WAY faster
• Grant a 1 sec "imunity" when you catch the lunaro ?
• Make the goal bigger ? Slightly. Therefore preventing goal keeper to be as big as the goal, preventing us from using the "one will shoot while the other spam kick the goalkeeper"

 

Honestly I won't play this mod EVER AGAIN until they fix the "let's spam E like crazy it works for any purpose" and the "I just got a point, i'll wait outside and then dash in to mark", especially since the ball is nicely thrown in the air in front of the goal for this kind of players to aim perfectly.

 

-edit-

Oh silly me I forgot.

Would you kindly fix the "backward pass" already ?

It's annoying to be about to goal and suddenly the boal phase through your body to be passed to a teamate behind you who asked for nothing.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Trichouette

[BlackVortex]

- Lunaro Mode: Unstable goals only

Why?

I yawn at players rushing to the other goal and Lmb-ing the ball into the goal...

it's boring and doesnt really require any skill

trying to score an unstable shot requires a whole lot more of skill and makes the game less rush-to-the-goal-and-Lmb-it

 

- New Lunaro map: Football (not American Football) Field with stadium and football goals

- New balancing system: start the match with 2 players, but only new players per 2, so it will always be equal teams on joining.

but not to make that 1 other guy have to wait all the time, make it so that on a goal scored he gets substituted for one of the players on his side that are on the pitch.

Why?

because currently I'm having a very hard time getting a Lunaro match because if I have to wait for 6 players to stay in the match when in the lobby and hour has already passed...

[The_Snowflake_from_Hell]

You guys just killed your BEST game mode with Lunaro 5 hotfix for me. Matches on my server just never ever start due to the annoying new requirement of having to wait for 6 players in order to start a match, I need to change to far away servers in order to play Lunaro at all and it sucks due to the massive lag I get there.