Confusing thing about Void Projections

[hey_guess_what]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

In the meantime, let's just be happy that Argon Crystals will be much less a hassle to have.

Umm... Argon is the easiest rare resource to get, if you void regularly.  More than 75% of what I have looted has been decayed before I can even use it for anything.

[SenorClipClop]

49 minutes ago, hey_guess_what said:

Umm... Argon is the easiest rare resource to get, if you void regularly.  More than 75% of what I have looted has been decayed before I can even use it for anything.

True, it isn't difficult now, but now it'll be even less difficult since we can drop into the Void without Keys or pre-making squads.

[Urlan]

10 hours ago, Brasten said:

Projections will be placed in a Projection Stand (they had the temp art for it during the Dev Stream). While the Project is on its Charging Stand, doing Void Tears you will gain "energy" for the Projection.

Functionally think Focus or Syndicate Rep gain.

Gain is individual. Projection rewards are not shared with a squad. They are individually claimed on your ship. 

The only reason to work with a team on the Void Tear is for mutual support in getting the mission done. Everyone will be working on their own Projection... which is back on their own ship. 

The practice of Key Share (4 people, running 4 missions in succession, each using their own key) will be functionally dead.

This is what I was getting out of it as well. But with more grinding and less reward than currently. I can use one key currently to get multiple items even though the rng makes the majority of them of little value - I still have items for Baro if nothing else. This seems to suggest one reward for more work. While the projections themselves are suggested in the devstream as being available from Baro after the initial conversion of our keys into them.

[undernown]

15 hours ago, Evanescent said:

So as I understood, you could use residuals from 'revealing' the void projections to boost your dropchance for the rare items in the drop-table. Excellent.

Question is, how will this affect multiplayer? Like if you have players that have varying levels of residuals, will each get separate drops, or will the highest take preference?

This is my current interpretation from what they told us in the Devstream so far: (I'll likely be repesting some things)

You insert the Void Projection that has the reward pool you want into the machine. How specific it gets as to what reward you can work towards is unclear. Do you get to select a rotation table like (A, B, C), or select a specific item? We'll have to wait and see.

Then what happens is you play "Void-tear" missions to charge it up for the reward. Once it's full you claim it from your Liset, so yes everyone will get a seperate "roll" for the reward. What the rewards for the "Void-Tear" missions themselves will be is unknown. (perhaps Forma, and the other non-Prime rewards? Missing event mods?)

What they were also quite clear about is that the void projections come in tiers, just like the void keys. And that the residual you get while claiming the void projection is distributed according to those same tiers, and possibly that specific void projection "type". The amount of residual you can store is quite good if they stick with something like 10. Imagine just claiming 10 rewards from a T4 rotation C, right after an update hits. It would be great.

How fast you can charge those void projections is a big question though. As long as that amount of time stays close to what we have now to get a reward from void missions I think there won't be a lot of comunity backlash.

My own question right now is how they calculate this for the different mission types:

- Is every void projection just 1 role at the reward or does it take longer to charge, but with several reward roles at the end?

- How does it calculate the charge yoy build up per mission type? If it only takes 1/3 extermination type missions to charge one up fully, will thst make long survival runs pointless as your simply overchsrging it? Will it result in more "residual"?

Either way I'm pleasantly surprised with what they've explained so far. It's a far bigger change of the system I thought they would go far. Glad to see they're still not afraid to drastically change existing game systems. Makes me a bit more hopefull for the upcomming damage 3.0 as well.

[SilentMobius]

18 hours ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

But what if someone in the group wants a different prime part than everyone else but still wants to run with friends?

Under this new system everyone in the squad could be rewarded with a different prime part but they're still running the same mission together.

Prime rewards happen in the Liset, after charging, everyone get the "charge" reward from the tear mission.

but also...

Under the new system the is no reason why people can queue up for Pub "Void Tear" missions, which will massively increase the number that are run.

There will be at least one of each tear active at once (Rebecca said so) there may be more, but if so, I think not many more.

That means that at any given time all of those people wanting to do void runs will be clustered in a one of the Tier1-4 mission that currently has a tear, I'm guessing the mission tileset and type will be whatever that location normally is with the added feature of the tear mechanic.

This means that all the people who were previously doing T4 [Mob]Def/Survival/Ext/Cap/Interception/Sabotage will all be doing one mission, that anyone can queue for. If you have a projection mounted then you charge it, if not can stock up on some void energy up to a cap in preparation for a projection. I would imagine that if you "overcharge" a mounted projection it goes to filling up your "spare" cap ready for the next projection.

Some time later the tears will move and all the missions will change. Giving everyone the chance to do all sorts of mission for their void "grinding"

I doubt that only one mission completion will charge a projection, so that gives a reason to do endless missions (you might get a void tear thingy every X waves or Y seconds)

I guess that there will be more projection than there are key types and that new projections will turn up for each PA. Rather than shuffling the drop tables for existing projections.

IMHO we still don't know where we get projections from, whether they drop instead of keys, or something else. That will most likely become the hard part, getting hold of the new projection what a PA hits

Edited June 22, 2016 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

1 minute ago, SilentMobius said:

Under the new system the is no reason why people can queue up for Pub "Void Tear" missions, which will massively increase the number that are run.

There will be at least one of each tear active at once (Rebecca said so) there may be more, but if so, I think not many more.

During the devstream we saw void tears in the navigation menu mission tab, right next to the sortie icon.

The questions are...do we have access to void tears all the time? 

Perhaps they spawn randomly like alerts?  Or are we limited to a certain number every day like syndicate missions?

[SilentMobius]

Just now, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

During the devstream we saw void tears in the navigation menu mission tab, right next to the sortie icon.

The questions are...do we have access to void tears all the time? 

Perhaps they spawn randomly like alerts?  Or are we limited to a certain number every day like syndicate missions?

Yes they are like alerts, overlayed on a planet with special conditions.

The following was said in the devstream:

DE Steve

Go find the void tear

DE Rebecca

Which is always going to be active

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Just now, SilentMobius said:

Yes they are like alerts, overlayed on a planet with special conditions.

The following was said in the devstream:

DE Steve

Go find the void tear

DE Rebecca

Which is always going to be active

I'm assuming that what Steve ment by "go find the tear" is that they'll be placed, probably in the same spots as syndicate medallions and rare crates, within each level.

And I missed the part where Rebecca said that they'd always be active.

So am I to assume that more star completion = more void tear mission options and variety?

[SilentMobius]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

I'm assuming that what Steve ment by "go find the tear" is that they'll be placed, probably in the same spots as syndicate medallions and rare crates, within each level.

And I missed the part where Rebecca said that they'd always be active.

So am I to assume that more star completion = more void tear mission options and variety?

I don't know if we'll need to hunt out the tear in-the-map, maybe but IMHO that is unclear currently, Certainly that may cause problems in Survival and Def-type missions. My assumption is complete normal mission (Or X waves/mins), get tear, but I could be wrong. They may get treated like the syndicate/alert version, where there is a fixed wave/time to get to.

All alert-like missions are limited by map completion so yeah, I think it's good mechanism for encouraging map completion and likely to be used.

Edited June 22, 2016 by SilentMobius

[SilentMobius]

For reference these were the tears active during the devstream:

• Triton (Neptune) Level 20-30, Exterminate - Corpus, T1 Void Tear, 1h 59m 24s remaining
• Casta (Ceres) Level 20-30, Hijack - Grineer, T1 Void Tear, 3h 7m 40s remaining
• Galilea (Jupiter) Level 30-40, Mobile Defense - Corpus, T2 Void Tear, 53m 16s remaining
• Vesper (Venus) Level 30-40, Spy - Corpus, T2 Void Tear, 34m 4s remaining
• Phoebe (Saturn) Level 40-55, Mobile Defense - Grineer, T3 Void Tear, 25m 32s remaining
• Void Node 7 (Void) Level 55-70, Survival, T4 Void Tear, 14m 52s remaining
• Albedo (Ceres) Level 55-70, Exterminate - Grineer, T4 Void Tear, 8m 28s remaining

Obviously these are not final but there are some interesting things that currently seem to be the case:

• There is more than one of most of the Tear Tiers (Thats a mouthful) but not all
• The time remaining varies, suggesting that they don't rotate as one
• The longest time is almost two hours, it's possible that the location and mission type might change rapidly
• The mission types don't match the tileset (E.G. Triton is Excavation, the Tear is Exterminate)
• The mission levels don't match the location's usual level (E.G. Vesper is 6-8, the tear is 30-40)

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

The enemy levels are interesting, Wonder if the tears are voluntary and/or have to be activated? Could be a nasty surprise for a new player to run into a level 40 enemy on Vesper.

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

4 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

For reference these were the tears active during the devstream:

• Triton (Neptune) Level 20-30, Exterminate - Corpus, T1 Void Tear, 1h 59m 24s remaining
• Casta (Ceres) Level 20-30, Hijack - Grineer, T1 Void Tear, 3h 7m 40s remaining
• Galilea (Jupiter) Level 30-40, Mobile Defense - Corpus, T2 Void Tear, 53m 16s remaining
• Vesper (Venus) Level 30-40, Spy - Corpus, T2 Void Tear, 34m 4s remaining
• Phoebe (Saturn) Level 40-55, Mobile Defense - Grineer, T3 Void Tear, 25m 32s remaining
• Void Node 7 (Void) Level 55-70, Survival, T4 Void Tear, 14m 52s remaining
• Albedo (Ceres) Level 55-70, Exterminate - Grineer, T4 Void Tear, 8m 28s remaining

Obviously these are not final but there are some interesting things that currently seem to be the case:

• There is more than one of most of the Tear Tiers (Thats a mouthful) but not all
• The time remaining varies, suggesting that they don't rotate as one
• The longest time is almost two hours, it's possible that the location and mission type might change rapidly
• The mission types don't match the tileset (E.G. Triton is Excavation, the Tear is Exterminate)
• The mission levels don't match the location's usual level (E.G. Vesper is 6-8, the tear is 30-40)

 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but no more corrupted?

[Emeraudes]

IMO, it IS a reduction in RNG depending on how they handle the new issue that will crop up with this system. By changing how the rewards are gained, RNG is reduced upon acquisition of the required projection(key). The only thing that hasn't changed, and possibly made worse, is how often you get that one projection that has that one thing you want.

Right now there are 25 void keys but the rewards are mostly resources, cores and other keys. Imagine if you only got prime parts from the keys now and the void mission rewards provided you with cores, projections(keys) and resources instead.

Through this, even T1 keys are worth unlocking(using) now. I just want to see how they distribute the reward table of projections through all the nodes in the new star chart.

Also, regarding @SilentMobius's post about the void tears seen in devstream. It's likely that Void tears are like alerts, you see the original nodes mission type and enemy level followed by the Tower tier and mission type of the void.

IF the current void standard is kept expect to see the same level of mobs as the current corresponding void tiers.

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Emeraudes

[Firetempest]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Bowjangelz said:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but no more corrupted?

The void will be on the starmap. No keys required. Corrupted are naturally just there.

as in the post you quoted. Void Node 7 (Void) Level 55-70, Survival, T4 Void Tear, 14m 52s remaining

The name is a WIP.

[Kaotyke]

19 hours ago, hey_guess_what said:

Umm... Control Modules is the easiest rare resource to get, if you void regularly.

FTFY

[ranks21]

this whole void tear  sounds like a mess, why not just reduce RNG and distribute the drops properly  instead of putting in another time wall and lottery mechanism  meant to curb players from getting what they want?

why are these Devs so against players having fun while acquiring in-game items? lets be frank about this void tear proposal<< will this make the game less grindy and more enjoyable or is it just another lipstick on a pig and dress on a dog change? s m h will this ever change in this game?

[BornWithTeeth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4pa86k/the_new_void_system_an_indepth_analysis_or_you/

 

 

May be helpful.

[ranks21]

lol I just read the transcript from your link and it sure as hell wont be any better than whats in place already, now DE will have  more control on how fast you can get those new primes.

control the tears, projections and residuals= more grinds + more time walls especially time walls now that you have to wait for them to appear and collect enough to get the part lol such masterfull work... good luck..

surely you cant be that naïve to think it will be better>> see syndicates and medallions>> affinity orbs for focus points.

Edited June 22, 2016 by ranks21

[BornWithTeeth]

 

6 minutes ago, ranks21 said:

lol I just read the transcript from your link and it sure as hell wont be any better than whats in place already, now DE will have  more control on how fast you can get those new primes.

control the tears, projections and residuals= more grinds + more time walls especially time walls now that you have to wait for them to appear and collect enough to get the part lol such masterfull work... good luck..

What a cheerful and optimistic chap you are.

 

 

In any case, DE can already do that whenever they want. Literally any time they want, DE can screw with the drop tables. They could slip that into any hotfix they want, and then quietly undo it a week or two later.

 

Instead, the new system sounds like it has a means of zeroing in on the drops which you want, which is something completely lacking in the current system.

The drops you want will not be tied to a specific mission. You can just run loads of different mission types, avoid burn out, etc. 

 

And, if DE decide to slow the rate at which Void tears appear, that's something which players can actually notice and call them on, immediately, without any datamining required.

 

Even if it takes slightly longer to get any given item, it will be less of an annoying slog, because it won't be a blind roll of the dice every twenty minutes in a T3 Survival anymore. Seriously, who else is tired of running Void Survival missions, counting down those twenty minute increments?

Edited June 22, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[ranks21]

lol sure

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, ranks21 said:

lol sure

Seriously?

 

Here, let me repeat that in a less verbose fashion:

 

DE can already screw with the drop tables whenever they want, and only datamining will spot that they did.

In the new system, if they decide to slow the rate at which Void tears appear, that will be immediately visible.

 

 

The new system has a means of improving your odds incrementally.

Void keys to run Void missions do not. You just have to run the missions over and over to roll the dice over and over.

 

The new system varies mission types, because the drop table comes with the Quantum Projection, not the mission node.

Using Void keys, I hope you like Survival missions, because you have to do lots of them. Lots and lots of them.

 

 

I'm not saying the new system will certainly be better. I'm saying hold off on the paranoia, doom and gloom until it comes out.

[ranks21]

yes I do like survivals there are only 2 mission types I dislike and that's spy and defense other than those two ill do any mission. where have DE ever made the grind less? where have they made things or put things in the game that favors the players?

if what you are implying is so true then everyone would have a legendary core, every mission would be juicy good, and no one would complain about anything.. yeah I have very good reasons to be as pessimistic as I am it's who I am and you have to work very very hard to make me a believer and no words don't count but action does.

Edited June 22, 2016 by ranks21

[BornWithTeeth]

All I see is you complaining and being bitter, man, about stuff which you haven't even experienced yet. If you truly don't like the game, aren't having fun, and don't trust DE, to the point that you spit on updates before they're even released, then you may need to just give it a rest. Play something else for a while. Log in just to get your daily login bonus, and let the game build up some content and some updates and fixes before you come back, ready to have fun.

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

 At this point  we do not know the exact details but I'm not sure I like the sounds of the tiering system. Thin about how bloated the drop tables will be if they are solely based on the current t1,t2,t3,t4 drop table as  whole. Without being able to break down the drops to a smaller sample size it could be a huge wait game.

[khazlol]

any news on the return of vaulted stuff?