You know what really upsets me the most?

[Lance_Lionroar]

2 minutes ago, Kalenath said:

We ARE their Q&A.

They CANNOT find every single bug and exploit even if they had years to do it. We can and do. More eyes on the problem = more problems found to be fixed. Simple.

I'm all for that, and I know, sad as it is, that bugs are unavoidable. Simply some bugs are understandable and others just make me cringe, like there's no way that'd go through.

[NoLife]

2 minutes ago, Lance_Lionroar said:

I'm all for that, and I know, sad as it is, that bugs are unavoidable. Simply some bugs are understandable and others just make me cringe, like there's no way that'd go through.

Such as? And did you report said bugs?

[IceColdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

No one is asking you to blindly celebrate it. In fact, you SHOULD be pointing out what you feel is wrong with it. But you should be doing so in a civil, mature and respectful manner. JRMC is trying to address the extremely toxic nature that some of the "feedback" has taken on. I placed feedback in quotes because when feedback fails to remain respectful, it is not good feedback.

Of course you do. Isn't it written in the forum guidelines after all?

It's just that some people don't like it when people complain about an update and they then proceed to calling them out as spoiled.

Then again, when it comes to nullifier changes, i can understand people getting heated for that. When all our feedback got thrown into the bin and instead we get the exact opposite of what we wanted. It feels like posting feedback with "thought and understanding" has no value anyway.

7 minutes ago, Lijka said:

Parts of the update I love, but other parts are, imo, bad decisions and poor execution. You can't improve something if you only praise it.

Same here. Ofc childish devbashing is a no-go. But here on the forums i've noticed it too often that once you complain about something new (no matter if constructive or not), you'll get served off as salty, spoiled, ungrateful or everything together.

Edited July 9, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Kalenath]

4 minutes ago, Lance_Lionroar said:

I'm all for that, and I know, sad as it is, that bugs are unavoidable. Simply some bugs are understandable and others just make me cringe, like there's no way that'd go through.

 

Yeah.

People forget quite quickly that DE is NOT the size of Blizzard or EA. They don't have 200+ people working in a Q&A department. They whole IDEA is for US to pinpoint the problems for DE to replicate, discover the root causes for and fix.

We have to report said bugs though. And not just 'It sux! I hate it! give me back my cheesy exploit that made the whole game stupid SIMPLE!' Contrary to popular belief, that does NOT help.

DE has a specific direction that they want to take the game. Not everyone will agree with that direction.

But they NEED concise, accurate feedback, not JUST rants about how someone now actually has to play the game to get rewards for playing the game.

This update is FAR from perfect. But in my own opinion, it is a step in the right direction.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Kalenath

[Lance_Lionroar]

1 minute ago, NoLife said:

Such as? And did you report said bugs?

Such as being stuck after a mission with no escape other than Alt + F4, and the game being reset to windowed mode at every launch. Yes, that's what the bugs subforum is for, is it not? Once again, nothing to do but wait.

[Kalenath]

1 minute ago, Lance_Lionroar said:

Such as being stuck after a mission with no escape other than Alt + F4, and the game being reset to windowed mode at every launch. Yes, that's what the bugs subforum is for, is it not? Once again, nothing to do but wait.

They are busy with Tennocon this weekend. But I BET they have a LOT of staff in the office right now.

[Letter13]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Of course you do. Isn't it written in the forum guidelines after all?

It's just that some people don't like it when people complain about an update and they then proceed to calling them out as spoiled.

Then again, when it comes to nullifier changes, i can understand people getting heated for that. When all our feedback got thrown into the bin and instead we get the exact opposite of what we wanted. It feels like posting feedback with "thought and understanding" has no value anyway.

It is, but the amount of people who have opted to ignore the forum's code of conduct when making their feedback is staggering... THAT's the toxic element that the opening post refers to. 

As for feedback not being regarded, it all depends on whether DE agrees with it. Making feedback with, as you put it, "thought and understanding" doesn't guarantee that your feedback will drive a change to the game, but it does increase the chances of it being read, regarded and possibly used to drive changes. Assuming that one's feedback will drive changes to the game is not a good assumption to make. However, one should still give feedback in the chance that it will drive a change to the game... It's almost like... dare I say it... RNG?

 

[CrazyCatLad]

I gave them the benefit of the doubt until the Hotfixes but two hotfixes later and there are still very, very nasty bugs - melee movement, windowed, progression stops, archwing lacking important controls such as roll.

I get that they need to sleep but you also need to release a working product.

[Renathy]

5 minutes ago, Lanieu said:

I gave them the benefit of the doubt until the Hotfixes but two hotfixes later and there are still very, very nasty bugs - melee movement, windowed, progression stops, archwing lacking important controls such as roll.

I get that they need to sleep but you also need to release a working product.

They can't address every single issue on the finalization of said production. If only it were that easy. They might not even experience many issues that we experience. That's why they need us.

Edited July 9, 2016 by JRMC

[Volinus7]

I havent seen any "improvement" since u17.5. Regression is real.

[DzeraDragonbane]

i think it's still buggy now which pisses people off. I mean it is still buggy, it just released.

[Slaviar]

Bugs. Terrible change to melee combat. At least two things from dev build (Kubrow leg colouring and rapier placeholder holster). Buff to most hated enemy. And it's been over six months since last update.

Yeah, it's not good when people rage but they have reasons to be upset. DE is not five men independent studio. Some of the bugs should've never make it into release build

[LSG501]

Yeah the team worked hard (to be fair they do get paid to do this...) but from what I'm seeing they focused too much on releasing for this update for tennocon and not enough on releasing when the product was 'finished to a highly usable standard'.   There's always going to be the odd bug but this release was not ready to be put out in my view. 

And that's ignoring UI/UX design choices which are not right in my view.

[CY13ERPUNK]

50 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Get over it.

It's the longest delay between 2 major updates that we had so far. And if things are bad, we will point them out and not blindly celebrate it.

^^^^^^^^^^^ this 

all these white knights QQ'n ... SMH ; how hard of a concept is it to grasp? ppl wouldnt complain if they didnt care, the forums on fire with complaints is a LOT better than no responses at all ; at least with complaints you've got some feedback to work with

DE clearly needs our criticism, becuz SO many things slipped thru the cracks this time [others have said it and i dont disagree, but WF/DE seems like they could REALLY use a public test server, even a small/limited access group could help for these updates to not go live in such disarray]

just becuz they 'worked hard' doesnt give them a free pass to publish such a poorly executed mess =/ 

thats like saying that you worked REALLY hard to lose weight and TAADAA! after only 6 months of 'hard work' u finally lost a grand total of THREE POUNDS! woohoo... 

hard work =/= good work 

paying customers 'earned' the right to complain, and of course those voices can be ignored or whatevs, but acting like ppl should just shut up and be happy with whatever DE slings our way is far worse IMHO

calling ppl stupid/dumb/etc or 'dev-bashing' is completely different from saying 'X changed, this is crap, i dont like X now' <-- that is valid criticism, maybe not eloquent or polite, but it is criticism nonetheless, of course its better to say something like : 'let me count the ways that this update disappointed me and my faith in DE and here are some suggestions about how they could re-learn simple game design and improve some of this mess'

this update is severely lacking, IMHO its the worst launch/etc that i have seen in my time with the game, and that is saying something... 

Edited July 9, 2016 by CY13ERPUNK

[Shifted]

@OP
Fully agree.

Anyway,
I just can't believe how people are crying about bugs.
Do you realize how often this game gets patched?
If something is SERIOUSLY broken, it gets fixed within hours from release. Worst case scenario a couple days.

Meanwhile another game I've been playing recently (which shall remain anonymous, although some people might figure it out) has been introducing gamebreaking bugs with every content patch released and LEAVING THE GAME IN THAT HALF-BROKEN STATE FOR WEEKS BECAUSE CONSOLES.

Imagine that happening in Warframe.
Having to wait 3 weeks for DE to fix, let's say, prime parts dropping. Or focus standing being gained. Or mastery XP.
Now what would actually happen is that kind of issue would be fixed within a couple hours.

It took me a longer break from Warframe to spend in other games to realize how hard they're working their asses off in comparison to other studios.
Appreciate that.

[Iselore]

Grindframe is bad enough as it is and now it's even more grindier. Oh wells, I'm just a normal with just a few hours to spare a day only.

[Kalenath]

18 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

^^^^^^^^^^^ this 

all these white knights QQ'n ... SMH ; how hard of a concept is it to grasp? ppl wouldnt complain if they didnt care, the forums on fire with complaints is a LOT better than no responses at all ; at least with complaints you've got some feedback to work with

 

Yes, we all know that it is so much easier to hate what you don't bother to understand.

EVERY SINGLE UPDATE, the forums explode with 'OMG NO! YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME! I HATE THIS! IT SUX!' Then people play it for a bit and DE tweaks stuff and... Ah who the hell cares? HATE ON!

Funny how for me, it seems a bit LESS grindy, but hey. Whatever. *shrug*

I know, I know. Updates have to be UTTERLY perfect. No bugs, glitches or oddities allowed! And NOTHING CAN CHANGE!

Might be nice to live in a world where that actually happened. Doesn't happen in ours and won't.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Kalenath

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Overall update for me-5\10.
1) void, its bad, like reeeeeeally bad, unintuitive, no endless mission, very hard in solo.
2) nullifiers buff...da hek? why? I want to know the name of person who came up with this.
3) cats. kinda cool but grindy as hek, way more that dogie and you can't utilize you prime collar for extra stats.
4) New map-kinda likie, but first one is still da best.
5) Market-way more confusing than is should, i have to manualy type what i need every time.
6) mesa buff...why? she was so perfect, now she like a mashine gun, so i expect nerfs.
7) bugz, tons of them.

I set mine hopes VERY low after first part of u19 and second part perfectly meet them at that bottom, exactly what i expected.

Dinno if i wanna know what bring da 3rd part, after all of that mess. DE lately doing very poorly, so many bad decisions, which makes me sad, coz i love this game.

[wathor88]

perhaps they should have made an update we wanted ... and not smth everyones dislikes - then we wouldnt need to pray for an update that kills this one

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, Kalenath said:

We ARE their Q&A.

They CANNOT find every single bug and exploit even if they had years to do it. We can and do. More eyes on the problem = more problems found to be fixed. Simple.

Think part of the problem is when some of the bugs we find are exceptionally obvious and even then take time in addressing.

Have yet to bother with the Void but in regards to this update I can understand the frustrations with Nullifiers when I read the complaints. People were annoyed that we kept getting nerfed yet enemies kept receiving buffs/remained the same which was a wacky way in balancing. DE responded seeming to understand the frustrations and would address them. So now when it comes to Nullifiers they appear to end up getting a buff when they should've maybe been retweaked and definitely reduced in number. The problem with enemies like that at the moment is that they spawn all too frequently so instead of becoming interesting when on the battlefield, they become frustrating and irritating, even moreso by what they already bring to the table. I mean, regarding nullifiers, when I read over the notes, do we annoyingly still get affected by enemy auras and attacks while we are inside Nullifier bubbles? Or has that finally been balanced out.

Think it's a bad combination of things which has intensified the community response - bugs, very significant changes and new systems (seemingly with more grind, Kavat scanning).

Edited July 9, 2016 by Naith

[StonedMakak]

Forums right now:

 

But seriously though, the amount of people running like headless chickens and screaming that this is the end is astounding. And it's been only a day, you need at least couple of weeks for comprehensive feedback of such a big update to say how the new systems work long term. I've seen people posting doomthreads 10 minutes after SotR dropped yesterday. It's a shame because lots of small, but spot-on, suggestions get lost in this mass hysteria (there is really no other term to describe it).

[Maou]

die draco diee

[Berserkerkitten]

Well, people are impatient. They want instant results, instant gratification. They look at the new map, can't figure out how to read it straight away, they freak out. Draco is no longer a Grineer interception, that particular mission and tileset was slightly moved and everyone goes berserk, "OMG they broke Draco because they hate us". Navigating those trenches in Archwing Rush feels weird and awkward with the new movement system, because we're still used to the old system. "OMG new Archwing movement system is broken, this sucks." There, another thread just popped up, "DE doesn't want us newbies to have fun", because the void was "removed". The player simply couldn't find it on his star chart, it's still there.

Void fissures... alright, I'm not entirely sold on them right now, either.

For the most part, I like the patch, bugs aside. I'm just not entirely sure where DE are going with this. Sometimes it feels like change for the sake of change, rather than the sake of improvement. The new star chart looks incredible, but so far, I find it more difficult to navigate. Junctions, extra challenges, rewards, all of that is great. Not so sure about the layout, though. Void fissures can be fun, I find it easier to get the rewards I want, but at the same time I'm worried about how and where to get fusion cores now. No more 50+ waves of void defense or 1+ hours of void survival for tons of ducats and more fusion cores than I could eat in a month. Now I spend five minutes at a time sealing a fissure, quick rewards, no cores. There are alerts for cores now, but they're a bit crappy for now.

Some of the marketplace stuff frustrates me. I buy a kavat starter kit, assuming it's what I need to get started on kavats. It's not. I need an incubator module, which isn't part of the starter kit, so I shell out an extra 175 platinum for that. Five minutes later a crazy cat lady drops one in a mission for free. That's cool, I shoulda waited, my fault and all that, but why are they so freaking expensive when they're so easy to get?

Holsters are pricy and, at least in my case, half of them are broken. With certain weapons and frames (e.g. Excalibur + Dex Dakra, any holster), the sliders do absolutely nothing. Strangely enough, the sliders work with Dex Dakra and Valkyr, but the next time I logged on, all holster options were reset. Time to wait for a fix.

The game is more difficult in places now, nullifiers are more annoying than ever and personally, I'm okay with it. So many people complain about Warframe becoming more and more of a power fantasy, every other thread is about "power creep", now the game gets tougher and it's still not right. I dunno, man. Maybe just keep on playing for a while, see how everyone gets used to it and DE will tweak accordingly if people don't like it. They always do.

And at the end of the day, that's why I'm not going insane over this stuff, even though I don't agree with, or at least fail to understand some of these changes. In the end, if something sucks, DE are usually pretty quick to fix it. Most people's first reaction to change is always negative. That applies to me as well. And then I get back to it, give it another go, see what it's all about. I reckon they're counting on that. And if people really don't accept something, it can always be tweaked. If nothing else, these major changes were pretty ballsy.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Berserkerkitten

[Kalenath]

12 minutes ago, Naith said:

Think part of the problem is when some of the bugs we find are exceptionally obvious.

TO US.

Are THEY seeing the same things we are?

Are they PLAYING the same builds we are?

Are they EXPERIENCING every little cranny and crack in the game that the thousands (at least) of players world wide are?

The answer to all three of these is almost certainly 'No'.

 

If they are anything like other game devs I have known, they are working on several different builds, sometimes at the same time. They are looking at different sections and they CANNOT always see how those sections will interact. Code is weird. GAME code DEFINES weird at times. They are relying on US to see the problems because they do not HAVE the time or personnel to see how EVERYTHING interacts with EVERYTHING ELSE even without a CONVENTION to run. I don't know if Blizzard or Ubisoft would have the time or personnel to do that for every update. I DO know that Ubisoft in particular wouldn't bother.

 

People want it perfect. Well, so do I. Thing is, I know we live in an imperfect world. I went into this update KNOWING that there would be problems. There always are. I went into it knowing that people would get upset about the glitches and bugs. They want it perfect and now. That won't happen.

 

These things take time. You can argue with time if you want. I don't think you will win.

 

Things WILL change. Just not always the way that people assume they will.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Kalenath

[DeMonkey]

46 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

And it's been over six months since last update.

7. 

Not that I'm sour about that of course. 

No, not at all.