DE, we can fix nullifiers with one simple change.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Weapons + abilities, it's always been like that. I don't ever go in with the mindset "I will only spam abilities for this mission".

Edited July 9, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[Marvelous_A]

38 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Joke's on you, I have. Had no problem with them, none that I wouldn't be able to overcome anyway.

 

Want to know why? Because I don't rely on just spaming abilities.

Spamming abilities? Most weapons are ineffective to high level nullifiers in void fissures. They spawn in horde and their bubbles are protecting each other. The bullets cannot pass through the bubbles so you have to deal with them one-by-one and you may use up your ammo before sealing the fissure successfully (Most high RoF weapons have poor ammo-efficiency). Unless you get into the bubble and one-shot them with forma-ed Tonkor. Still you will probably get one-shot by heavy troopers (most likely Bombard) during this. Even you manage to do so, they will keep spawning until you sealed the fissure successfully. But it's not impossible, it's just..well, not fun. At all.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[Hemmo67]

i say make the bubble twice the size but unable to growback

[Genoscythe]

A guy has brought up a nice idea in his thread before, let the bubble suppress abilities, but as soon as the bubble disappears or you exit it, reactivate the buff/effect.

 

A

1 hour ago, Agentawesome said:

Problem is void fissures, when 4 of them spawn next to eachother with and entourage of Bombards and Heavy Gunners, disabling any for of CC and pretty much obstructing view of everything. Having to pick up 10 reactants in the midst of it all doesn't make it any easier. 

this, they need to spawn without their bubble activated. it would also make sense for them to only activate the bubble as soon as they are alerted.

[Mochikomi_Shin_Jidai]

6 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Visual Style: Urine Yellow is a style? Funny...hmm.

Freedom of Movement: you're pinned down to the Fissure area. This whole event negates that.

Flexible game play: Limbo, Loki, Mesa, Mirage, Nova, Nyx and Zephyr are ALL useless on these missions. Likewise, Bows, Shotguns and single shot guns are at a marked disadvantage.

Design Diversity: Diversity of Bubble Colors, you mean? Blue or Yellow? Between Corpus and the Fissures, I spent more time under bubbles yesterday than Mary Poppins does under an umbrella.

Lax Economic Model: you mean, buy stuff or suffer interminable grind due tonNitain barriers?

Transparency: like, we want to reduce grind...but reducing the number of rewards per key while inflating the number of keys, refusing to share the relic conversion system, and making each mission take longer while also being MORE, repetitive?

Now, are there any other claims you would like factually rebuked?

Freedom of Movement: you're pinned down to the Fissure area. This whole event negates that.

This^ nulli spawn bug

Flexible game play: Limbo, Loki, Mesa, Mirage, Nova, Nyx and Zephyr are ALL useless on these missions. Likewise, Bows, Shotguns and single shot guns are at a marked disadvantage.

stop trying to fit triangle peg into the circle slot, there is a thing called CASTER frames, TANK, Frames Ect ect. Some things are not ment to be good at all things
Mesa been reported to solo fissures.

I could totally solo a Fissure with Zephyr becuce i use her AERIAL ABILLITES TO MAKE DEATH then swoop down and feed the fissure Or i cover my teamates with my great gun death! so they can feed it!

Shotguns and Bows. not working on nullies IS DESIGNED THIS WAY, Use a dam Secondary like a TElos or AkBolto RIPs through nullies like butter Also for primary Simular works if you get it in the bubble Nullies bubbles cant work if they are airborn :D  electric proc aswell

Its actuially fun to to get priim stuff within normal missions and its SO DAM EASY and i get 4 possible choices! that's 4 Rolls! within less then 10 mins! Thats normally 4 rotations! and everyone gets the same thing but its Set rotation!.

Unno about you but you might want to research time needed of the old void to get what you want Vs the time needed now +extra roll chance (3 other party memebers) Plus smaller table on the relic  PLUS refining the relic to get the rare item!

So much dam better!

Ducat farming will soon locate the best set of relics to use and The party could do a Relic SHare  doing 1 relic at a time, thuogh am not sure if this would work, I did here in game lotus said *if your relic fits*   which confused me :/

either way thhis system is SOO MUCH BETTER

[Vali]

3 minutes ago, Genoscythe said:

A guy has brought up a nice idea in his thread before, let the bubble suppress abilities, but as soon as the bubble disappears or you exit it, reactivate the buff/effect.

This is a great idea, have buff effects paused instead of removed. It will let people prioritize duration over efficiency with their buffs. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Agentawesome

[Genoscythe]

3 minutes ago, Agentawesome said:

This is a great idea, have buff effects paused instead of removed. It will let people prioritize duration over efficiency with their buffs. 

It would also stop breaking the neck of loki, chroma, rhino, nezha and a lot of other buff/maintained ability based frames.

 

Inaros is probably the most affected, as you flush 2k+ health down the toilet if you loose your scarab armor.

 

Of course the damage cap needs to go too. I also think they should not be immune to focus powers, not even sentients are.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Genoscythe

[CrazyCatLad]

No just give them a weapon that temporary nullifies your powers if you get shot.  Like a status effect.

[GreyEnneract]

2 hours ago, Genitive said:

Or just remove them completely and replace them with something more interesting.

QFT

[VisionAndVoice]

15 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Still you will probably get one-shot by heavy troopers (most likely Bombard) during this. Even you manage to do so, they will keep spawning until you sealed the fissure successfully. But it's not impossible, it's just..well, not fun. At all.

You can move, you can use slam attacks, you can have status melee weapons, you can have good stances, you can have companions that help you. I don't knoq, it's not easy, but it's not "not fun"

[Kuva_Kebab]

I suggest splitting current nullifiers into two different enemies.

1) An enemy that produces a protective bubble around its allies, this bubble is immune to powers but does not nullify their usage.

2) An enemy that nullifiers powers in an area around it, but does not produce a protective bubble.

[VoidNomade]

22 minutes ago, Genoscythe said:

It would also stop breaking the neck of loki, chroma, rhino, nezha and a lot of other buff/maintained ability based frames.

 

Inaros is probably the most affected, as you flush 2k+ health down the toilet if you loose your scarab armor.

 

Of course the damage cap needs to go too. I also think they should not be immune to focus powers, not even sentients are.

Chroma is also a very sad dragon.^^

[Tymerc]

Not happening. They're easy enough to kill as it is. As someone who has mained Frost since 2013 the new change to shatter my globes on contact has not dropped my completion rate for Corpus missions whatsoever. Adapt or quit is how that saying goes I believe. 

[Krion112]

25 minutes ago, VoidNomade said:

-snip-

Weakest argument I've ever encountered in my entire time on the Warframe forums. Plus, childish conclusion statement.

There is absolutely zero proof or evidence that the Nullifier was a rushed design. Whatever machination you believe to be the reason behind DE's actions is irrelevant; to the uninformed, it would seem as though the ability spam was the reason, but really the Nullifier was designed to challenge all players, hence why its bubble is also resistant to damage. If its entire design was to handle ability spam, don't you think DE would have made the bubble unable to deflect projectiles? Or, better yet, handled it different, such as actually have the ability to generate the bubble wherever it wanted, or even just outright preventing abilities without even displaying a bubble? The Nullifier was not designed as a solution to ability spam, end of story.

There is a design reason for why the Nullifier exists, why it functions they way it does, and why the Devs ignore most player feedback on it. Unless one has studied game design themselves, they'll never truly understand why a developer does what they do, as they'll attribute their actions to face value instances (Changes being made based on Lore, the amount of content intended to be or currently in the game, or other such shallow and inaccurate reasons). 

The Nullifier is fundamentally designed to force a player to fight it and its allies on its terms, as defensiveness is the Corpus mechanical operation. By preventing powers and forcing a close range engagement, by use of both its damage resistant bubble and its long range Lanka, it has the defensive advantage, which is its strength as a unit. It is not intended to counter ability spam, and never was. And for the record, neither was the Sapping Osprey, and neither was the Bursa.

All I see is people complaining that they cannot use a particular set of tools on a particular outlet. Yes, let us try even hard to ram that block through a cylindrical port! Certainly it must be a flaw that I cannot fit the obviously incorrect shape into this port! If you're standing outside of the bubble to engage the Nullifier, you're doing it wrong and you need to adapt. If you're losing because a Nullifier is blocking all of your abilities (somehow), then you're probably way too dependent upon your abilities and you need to adapt. If you're battling a Nullifier flanked by a Bombard and Heavy Gunner, don't prioritize it first; damage the bubble just enough to make the other two vulnerable, and strike them first, and engage the Nullifier when its alone in its bubble.

There's no reasonable scenario where the Nullifier is unfair to the player in any way, therefore not necessitating any change, especially because it seems to be fulfilling its role perfectly.

[lukinu_u]

You just need to hit them with melee or shoot them into the bubble, not too hard...

[fatpig84]

The biggest issue with Void Fissure is that mobs spawn exactly on top of you. 
That means Nullifiers, ancients, gunners, bombard whatever nasties just drop right on top of your head.

For beefy frames like Valkyr, Atlas, Inaros etc this is no issue.
For Lokis, Mirages, Ivaras, they are immediately naked and are extremely fragile until they get out of the bubbles.
At higher level fissures, those frames get hurt pretty badly as well.

Frames like Chroma which live and thrive on their self buffs are affected as well.
But if you slotted Steel Fiber, no biggie, just perform ze beat down.

I won't suggest a nerf to the nullifers but change how the spawning mechanism is done.
Like a minimum of 20 meters away from the Fissure, so that it doesn't become a FusterCluck which does nothing but hurt fragile frames.
Heck the current FusterCluck scenario, works heavily in tanky frames favour since they don't need to close in at all. 
They are already closed in !

And oh, make sure Fissures don't spawn on bridges.
Those are annoying.

Edited July 9, 2016 by fatpig84

[StylishKill]

2 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Now this I can agree with.

As for the rest - no, they're fine.

nope they are not fine srsly, i was having like 50% - 60% of enemies in corpussy missions only nullifiers and i dont like it. Use a fast gun you destroy the bubble but it wont go down as fast as you hit it. So making you wasting more ammo. And realy 50% - 60% enemies of the crowed being stupid nullifiers? NOPE dont need that i was fine untill now that they nullify the effects around them but now i am totaly pissed. Not even Limbo can run trough there.

[StylishKill]

And also we need to reduce the spawnrate of this nullifiers. And bring back Frost bubble and Limbo to life. Since the Frost bubble is getting nullified. And yes where are all the stupid nerv lovers? usualy when something decent comes they cry for nerv, so where are they now? If we want to aim higher we need better gear, but killing all the frame abilitys than you can just focus on gear and give every frame standard armor of 2000 for lvl 1 and add 200% armor with steel fibre. Than we do not need to play tactical anymore and we dont need any abilitys. That is of course what they did ... killed all the abilitys of the warframes. Lets go be an ordinary Hack and Slash game without anything special.

[VisionAndVoice]

7 minutes ago, StylishKill said:

nope they are not fine srsly, i was having like 50% - 60% of enemies in corpussy missions only nullifiers and i dont like it. Use a fast gun you destroy the bubble but it wont go down as fast as you hit it. So making you wasting more ammo. And realy 50% - 60% enemies of the crowed being stupid nullifiers? NOPE dont need that i was fine untill now that they nullify the effects around them but now i am totaly pissed. Not even Limbo can run trough there.

I know you're exagerrating because I played those missions too.

 

[StylishKill]

18 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

You just need to hit them with melee or shoot them into the bubble, not too hard...

you do shot the bubble but it wont fall fast enough, because its not the damage needed to reduce the bubble. you do around 15k damage on the bubble with the paris but it wont vanish... see you need an amout of hits on it to dissapear what makes the bows in the game again realy realy useless, same goes for sniper rifles. Besides i wrote allready that the nullifier fields do not go down as fast as they should be. its more like they are decaing slowly. and while you have done this with 1 field another rises again.

[Berserkerkitten]

Simple fix: Permanently remove all Warframe abilities from the game. If nullifiers can no longer take our abilities, they won't be annoying. XD

[Tizodd]

3 hours ago, Genitive said:

Or just remove them completely and replace them with something more interesting.

The only real nullifier solution^

[(XBOX)LAZYNOOB2017]

3 hours ago, Chantepleur said:

This is not a good solution I think, but +1 to OP.

Nullies are too strong now and DE should 'balance' them...but DE will never nerf those evils I guess.

no, what I think is the best option is to allow us to use our abilities when they're bubble is destroyed. I did this and then used radial blind (I main Excalibur) but he was still immune.

[StylishKill]

4 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

I know you're exagerrating because I played those missions too.

 

i am not, but what pisses me more than anything is that frost is useless now and limbo too. how do you expect us to go on high tier defense mission on corpus or voids??? not gona work. That is what i am telling. And as long the enemie is around lvl 50 you can deal with nullifiers easy. But only as long as you do not have to deal with protection something. so i am not exagerrating. Just telling the truth cant handle it? well not my problem.

[DCypherThis13]

Well, I can see that I have sailed into a hurricane of differing opinions. Each subsequent post has the winds of thought changing from love to hate to neutral and back again. That's one of the things that makes this community great.

Since I'm already here, I suppose I'll throw my two cent in as well. I have not been a fan of Nullifiers since day one. I feel that their mechanics are cheap, almost as if the game is cheating in an attempt to beat the player. This enemy type eliminates the choice from the player and in many cases renders all of our hard work Null and Void. I am referring, of course to our weapons, Warframes and play style, as well as Mods which we have spent thousands of Cores/Mods and millions of Credits maxxing out. Not to mention, Forma and the work to re-rank those items which we love.

I don't have a solution to solve all of the problems, but the one thing that springs forth in my mind is the damage cap on the bubble. I see no reason why Opticor hitting for almost 3k per shot should shrink the bubble the same amount as a Latron hitting for about 500 per shot. It makes no sense to me. I can understand having a minimum damage limit because a newer player may encounter this enemy before they have the resources to maximize the Damage and Multi-Shot mods. This would also make life for those of us who prefer Snipers, Shotguns and Bows much easier and less ammo stressful. It also means that all of our hard work is not going to waste lining up that perfect shot and engaging the target with extreme prejudice.