Removing enjoyment from the game.

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

TL;DR: 

Warframe is the only PvE game I've ever been a part of where the community members will BEG the dev's to gib their teammates for their own enjoyment.

Warframe nerfs, no draco, OP builds are shamed until dev's interfere and make them unviable, Sorties trivialize player efforts yet when players trivialize sortie efforts those frames/methods are nerfed- What's the point of building or formaing anymore? Explain this to me, I'm genuinely at a loss.

I don't have all day to progress at a snails pace doing random stuff along the star map and I certainly don't want to give up frames I like just because vocal "real" gamers prefer us to use less ezmode frames  which are merely hipster in nature (For instance easy-to-acquire Galatine is shamed but Scindo Prime isn't because Scindo Prime is rarer and is thus a status symbol). I overcompensate my builds so that I can play comfortably for my own enrichment in my own microcosm away from other players.

 

That is to say: I'm not the player who stole your kills or got higher numbers than you so why is it that I get punished even though we will never ever meet?

Also, if devs would work just as hard on balancing enemy scaling as they are at eliminating "cheese" then I'm almost certain that would resolve the majority of problems many players have with the game.

Edited August 19, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed inflammatory remarks and edited title for clarity

[iTrust]

Galatine is shamed? This is news to me.

While I agree the content is too easy and there's no endgame to challenge us. I don't think shaming or using the strong frames in the current missions is anything to be ashamed of or you get shamed for.

Even the current nerfed frames can easily solo about all content in the game if played right.

What are you asking for exactly? Buffs if you play solo? There's already less spawns when you play solo.

[(PSN)HyperInfestation]

Leaderboard?  The one that Resets every Sunday?   Not even worth it. 

[Xekrin]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

Warframe nerfs, no draco, OP builds are shamed until dev's interfere and make them unviable

The thing I find most amusing from complaint threads is people seem to think the forums somehow control what the devs do.  DE developers, coders, script writers, engineers and whomever else work there all have their own minds, and they have meetings where they discuss issues brought up by the community.

Now, if they agree that an issue should be changed, nerfed, altered, reworked, revisited, redone, or removed they do it.  They don't have some random staffer who checks the forums, sees a "NERF THIS" thread, runs to the nearest developer who immediately nerfs something based solely on the fact that it is on the forum.

Every decision DE has made, they have done so of their own free will because their profession is developing a video game.  They take into consideration far more than merely "hey, that guy says his fun is ruined cuz draco and cuz valkyr and cuz this and that".  They balance (or attempt to, no one is perfect and its a daily struggle) the game around the game itself, not around anyone one or group of individuals.

If said nerf, change, rework, etc... happens to coincide with a single or a few threads regarding how OP or broken something is then there is an uproar that "they ruined my fun!!!", well they didn't.

DE cannot make everyone happy, its a simple fact.  Sure there are people who get "fun" from using god mode valkyr before her nerf and are outraged that she was nerfed but there are also people who enjoy using her now because of their own personal reasons.

It has nothing to do with not loving solo or spoiling X player's fun, it is about whether or not DE thinks its the best decision.  Sometimes they are wrong and will change something again, most times they tend to stand by their choices.  There are also things that are clearly brokenly OP (Naramon) that they haven't even touched yet and various other aspects that they leave because they prefer to do so.

What DE does has nothing to do with you as an individual player because you aren't the only one playing, there are thousands of us.  Only a very small portion of us even bother with the forums or reddit and these are the voices that are heard, whether they are for or against what you or he or she or they or me are for or against it or not.

TL:DR - Life's tough, Sorry.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

you seem to have a rather cynical view of the community. while I can't speak for everyone, I haven't really met anyone like the people you're describing. while our input is valuable to DE, it is still their game, and thus their decision as to what to do. DE don't nerf things unless they feel themselves that it needs a nerf (even though said reason may elude us).

regarding the Galatine thing, I'm sure it was probably an example, but I have met many players who have tried using less "meta" gear in higher level content (mostly Sorties, like todays BS one with the raptor, such a pain). I'm one of those players myself, though after a couple failed attempts I will likely break out the Tonkor and IDGAF what anyone thinks at that point, and neither should you really.

I agree that enemies need looking at though. to say this is "balancing", it seems rather one-sided as it's pretty much just been reworks for Warframes that reduce damage in exchange for a new utility. will we ever see the day when enemies scale properly? probably not.

[Redthirst]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

Sorties trivialize player efforts yet when players trivialize sortie efforts those frames/methods are nerfed

Enemy scaling is a problem that is constantly complained about.

 

53 minutes ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

That is to say: I'm not the player who stole your kills or got higher numbers than you so why is it that I get punished even though we will never ever meet?

You're not the only one who plays those frames. I'm sorry if your idea of fun is to be literally invulnerable.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

I'm shamed if I play badly regardless of what I'm using. That's just a player problem though. I'd never blame the devs for the numerous times I've been told to kill myself, nor do I think it's their responsibility to prevent that. My only problem is solo play being unnecessarily punishing from a standpoint of farming efficiency with few exceptions.

(I've gotten good with Oberon, so I don't have to deal with so much hate anymore.)

[Plushy]

How are you supposed to show off your fashion frame if you play solo?

[(PSN)jonnyblaze1976]

Ive been at this game now for almost 3 years and never have i seen so many "if the game isnt exactly as i think it should be then its crap" attitudes. Or at the very least i blocked it out. DE cares about this game and its community more than any game ive ever played and it shows in every update, every devstream, every post the staff makes on this forum. I guess my point is (before i started to ramble) is that although they cant make everybody happy they sure as hell try to do just that. I just wish peeps would stop with the doom and gloom, have some patience and understand that they arent the only ones playing this game 

[(PSN)joe03827]

1 hour ago, Plushy said:

How are you supposed to show off your fashion frame if you play solo?

This

[Eminem2420]

Uhm, what part of this post has to do with solo missions? Also, you seem to be under the impression that balance is unnecessary. This is absolutely false. Without balance, this game would've died out long ago.

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

Am I missing the "Solo" part of this post or isn't it there to begin with?

All I'm really seeing here is complaints that some weapons are liked better than others, some get praised more, followed by complaints about nerfs to overpowered strategies and abilities; all topped off with a complaint that they removed Draco.

 

First off, even with the nerfs all frames are still viable. Trinity is still viable even after her Bless Nerf, Mirage is still viable after her blind nerf, Mag is still good, Volt is still good. Do the same spam button/CC room strategies still work? No. They were making Raids and Sorties a cakewalk when they were made to be a challenge. And your comment about the Galatine not getting the same treatment as the Scindo Prime is mute since you are comparing something that you'd have to farm for (spend multiple keys/relics to get vs. a BP from the market, and not to mention the Galatine is one of the more praised of the weapons in my experience.

[uAir]

That Mirage blasting everything up to level 100 and probably even beyond needs to get nerfed. o_o

Saryn clearing the entire map and even enemies offscreen or through walls also needs to get nerfed. >_<

Frost's shield makes many enemies worthless.

Nova's slow can literally make or break missions to the point where a group of 3+ most other things would instantly fail a mission. Make those same 3+ a slow Nova that can slow practically the entire map and those other 3 can now instantly be anything and still win the mission.

Then you also have Loki frames that are essentially permanently stealth and can never be targeted.

 

I do think that things need to get nerfed. And I'm sad because I just got my three Saryn Prime parts today and I'm on the hunt now for a Saryn Prime blueprint to do Hikou Prime spam spore map clear build. +sad

[achromos]

20 hours ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

TL;DR:

Warframe is the only PvE game I've ever been a part of where the community members will BEG the dev's to gib their teammates for their own enjoyment.

Warframe nerfs, no draco, OP builds are shamed until dev's interfere and make them unviable, Sorties trivialize player efforts yet when players trivialize sortie efforts those frames/methods are nerfed- What's the point of building or formaing anymore? Explain this to me, I'm genuinely at a loss.

I don't have all day to progress at a snails pace doing random stuff along the star map and I certainly don't want to give up frames I like just because vocal "real" gamers prefer us to use less ezmode frames  which are merely hipster in nature (For instance easy-to-acquire Galatine is shamed but Scindo Prime isn't because Scindo Prime is rarer and is thus a status symbol). I overcompensate my builds so that I can play comfortably for my own enrichment in my own microcosm away from other players.

 

That is to say: I'm not the player who stole your kills or got higher numbers than you so why is it that I get punished even though we will never ever meet?

Also, if devs would work just as hard on balancing enemy scaling as they are at eliminating "cheese" then I'm almost certain that would resolve the majority of problems many players have with the game.

 

The only reason why people will "Beg" for that sort of thing is because people want to PLAY too, not be the glorified towel boy of the team.  As far as "OP" builds, there is a limit to how "OP" you should be able to get, sure carry a team, but don't trivialize game content.  There is a fine line between the two.

 

As far as "Shamed"  Who is shaming this stuff, ignore them and play the game how YOU want.  Also, Galatin < Scindo Prime < Fragor Prime < Galatine Prime?

But I digress, I have a feeling there will always be builds that can hold up on their own, it's just when they hold the entire world up and your team has to sit by that things probably should get a look at.

Things like Mag's old ability to make Corpus a non-existant threat come to mind, or Older Excalibur ability to become a Wave Turret.

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

1 hour ago, uAir said:

That Mirage blasting everything up to level 100 and probably even beyond needs to get nerfed. o_o

Saryn clearing the entire map and even enemies offscreen or through walls also needs to get nerfed. >_<

Frost's shield makes many enemies worthless.

Nova's slow can literally make or break missions to the point where a group of 3+ most other things would instantly fail a mission. Make those same 3+ a slow Nova that can slow practically the entire map and those other 3 can now instantly be anything and still win the mission.

Then you also have Loki frames that are essentially permanently stealth and can never be targeted.

 

I do think that things need to get nerfed. And I'm sad because I just got my three Saryn Prime parts today and I'm on the hunt now for a Saryn Prime blueprint to do Hikou Prime spam spore map clear build. +sad

Just grab a Sobek with acid shells. It literally works wonders. I DON'T WANT THEM TO NERF IT. I WANT THEM TO BE CHOKED OUT BY THE TOXINS RELEASED BY MY DEADLY POISONOUS SPORES. MAUWHAHAHA!!!

[Kaiser_Suoh]

I go "Solo" everywhere since Endless Missions are dead now.

Also DE are nerfing us (our weapons and warframes) and are buffing NULLIFIERS!!

_{GOD I HATE NULLIFIERS}

Edited August 19, 2016 by Kaiser_Suoh

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well said.

Sadly, there really isn't any reason to forma anything any more anyway because there is no reason to do long endless mission anymore. Casual Frame has been achieved. You can just melt everything in fissure missions with almost no effort.

[StonedMakak]

11 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Well said.

Sadly, there really isn't any reason to forma anything any more anyway because there is no reason to do long endless mission anymore. Casual Frame has been achieved. You can just melt everything in fissure missions with almost no effort.

Show me a point in time when melting everything was somehow difficult in Warframe.

As for the OP, I can't take you seriously when you say that solo got nerfed, while Loki stands right there with his Hushed Invisibility.

But never mind, I'll try. It was already stated that, contrary to the popular belief, dev team does not take the nerf threads as the word of god. But you know what's ironic? That people using the OP stuff are actually contributing more to the nerfs than the nerf crowd on the forums.

It's quite simple: DE makes content with a goal of keeping a player occupied for X hours. It's not available instantly, not because they are A******s, but because they have to make money somehow, and it gives them time to create new content. If players use OP builds, i.e. builds that make the grind too efficient, they burn through said content, and then complain there is nothing to do.  If this snowballs out of control, DE will lose more and more people due to burnout syndrome (already happening, how many people take brakes, return only for updates?) resulting in a dead game. Thus, they will do everything they can to get rid of such builds, as they directly screw with their business model. Also, it may sound crazy, but at least entertain the possibility that the dev team has a vision for their own game, and ezmode is not a part of it.

And yeah, they are going to fix the scaling of enemies, they probably know how to do it already, but they decided to start with balancing players first. That's because if you fix the scaling first, enemies become weak as kittens, even more so than now, until they adjust the power levels of players. They can't do both at the same time, and both take time. Can you imagine the backlash if scaling got fixed first (=weaker enemies) and after at least a couple of months frames and weapons got brought down to the same level? It would be like a wet dream for all those who enjoy being OP, with enough time to get used to their new-found power, followed by their personal version of Warframe hell. So while not ideal, starting with adjusting frames and weapons is a better way to go about it.

Edited August 19, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed off topic quoted comment (since title has been edited for clarity)

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, tisdfogg said:

Show me a point in time when melting everything was somehow difficult in Warframe.

More than an hour in an endless mission with a no forma setup.

[Valiant]

2 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Well said.

Sadly, there really isn't any reason to forma anything any more anyway because there is no reason to do long endless mission anymore. Casual Frame has been achieved. You can just melt everything in fissure missions with almost no effort.

I'm sorry but the endless missions were rather dull and tedious. At least for me. The 'challenge' wasn't particularly interesting either. 

[StonedMakak]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

More than an hour in an endless mission with a no forma setup.

I did say a point in time, didn't I? I had a feeling that you were talking about some specific time, but since you meant gimping yourself... What's stops you from doing the same thing now?

Also, go to Moon Survival with unranked, unmodded Excal and a Ceramic Dagger as your only weapon. And equip a Dragon Key. Last 10 hours. *CinemaSins voice* CHALLENGE! EXCITEMENT! Call Steve, I found the endgame.

Also, balancing against endless modes is endlessly pointless.

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, tisdfogg said:

I did say a point in time, didn't I? I had a feeling that you were talking about some specific time, but since you meant gimping yourself... What's stops you from doing the same thing now?

Also, go to Moon Survival with unranked, unmodded Excal and a Ceramic Dagger as your only weapon. And equip a Dragon Key. Last 10 hours. *CinemaSins voice* CHALLENGE! EXCITEMENT! Call Steve, I found the endgame.

Also, balancing against endless modes is endlessly pointless.

 

I am not talking about gimping yourself. I am talking about actually needing to build for survival in that situation. Meanwhile, I can just cruise through fissure missions. ''

Tell me, what practical purpose would your HURR DURR serve? Going an hour or so in endless Void missions actually had a point, and it actually gave you a reason to use forma and taters.

[StonedMakak]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I am not talking about gimping yourself. I am talking about actually needing to build for survival in that situation. Meanwhile, I can just cruise through fissure missions. ''

Tell me, what practical purpose would your HURR DURR serve? Going an hour or so in endless Void missions actually had a point, and it actually gave you a reason to use forma and taters.

Yes, yes you are talking about gimping yourself. You are purposefully giving up a source of power to make the game harder. That's the definition of gimping. If you used everything at your disposal it would be laughably easy as you yourself point out, which makes it that much more bizarre that you are in denial about it. And yes, now you can employ the exact same strategy to make fissures challenging.

Practical? None. I thought were talking about the subjective perception of challenge, and how you used to achieve it, now vs pre-patch. What are we talking about?

[DjaAkh]

20 hours ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

TL;DR: 

Warframe is the only PvE game I've ever been a part of where the community members will BEG the dev's to gib their teammates for their own enjoyment.

 

Diablo 2 - Sorceress. Made every team pointless, because her main AoE (Blizzard. Thanks developers for that reference!) could be spammed and not only emptied the entire screen, but also made it impossible for any other player to see anything. Got nerfed.

Borderland - Brick. Punching enemies to pulp in a shooter game can be fun, but during late game, the damage just scaled in an absurd way and made every weapon AND every team mate useless. Don't even know, if they ever fixed that, but there were a few outcries, to say the least ;)

 

Just two games, that I personally played, from the top of my head. I'm very certain, there are more. The thing is: Whenever your team consists of one super hero, who does all the work and a bunch of spectators, who try to look busy, than it isn't a coop game any more, but a video stream. Like a "let's play".

Edited August 19, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed inflammatory remark in quoted comment

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

There are avenues for DE to pull more power from the player base that they haven't taken yet.

Honestly, I'm surprised DE continues to put polarities into stock gear that isn't a prime variant.

Or continue to let aura mods and stance mods give additional capacity.