Why do you think so many players avoid the Trial/Raid missions?

[HalfDarkShadow]

This is only conjecture, but just like any other MMO with Raids that Trials is [somewhat] derived from, it's appeal is for a very specific group. In both cases, traditionally organized groups i.e. Clans, Guilds, etc. Even more so for Warframe since it isn't an MMO; how it emphasizes solo and/or small cooperative play. So in return the kind of people who come to Warframe, at least to a noticeable degree, aren't into a large grouped mission type that primarily focus' on communication and organization.

It really has nothing to do with "CC-reliant" "too easy ^{even though you had to learn it at some point}", but just the very nature of who it's made for. You can "fix" and change all the problems you want, it's not going to make people all of a sudden come back.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And a side note, I keep seeing alot of "They're the same puzzles every-time"; so just wanted to mention, since I'm guessing some of you guys never played a traditional Raid in other games before; but most (although not all) Raids typically don't just randomly change it's mechanics. It's a set series of puzzles and tight group cooperation based boss fights that don't change so players can learn how it works inside-out and be able to complete them the most efficient way as possible.

The key difference with Warframe is that they respect your time and effort on the gear you worked on. They don't just add a new set of weapons/gear that are statistically stronger, making what you worked so hard on next to irrelevant. Not even to add that a lot of other games with Raids where for a first-timer you basically need to be carried because the only way to survive the Raid and/or do some amount of considerable damage is to get the very same materials/gear you get from said Raid.
Worst for some games out there that have a catch-22 situation happening via no one wants to bring an un-geared player to a difficult Raid, but in order to even get the relevant gear that's essentially required, you need to play the Raid that you're being omitted from.

So in that respect, I give Warframe credit for not going down a similar path. But I'm just digressing now lol.

Edited September 26, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow

[(XBOX)Agent Hodor]

1. Have you completed the Trial missions?

 Yes, I have completed all 3 raids

2. Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?

 I run LoR and Nightmare LoR fairly regularly, often with pickup groups through recruiting chat.  I do not do JV because I do not enjoy the archwing portions.

3. Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

 While most people think that recruiting chat groups means hit or miss on skill, I have found barring a few exceptions the players that respond to recruiting chat posts for these are either experienced or willing to listen.  The belief that public non-clan runs are a trainwreck waiting to happen is just a convenient excuse for most people as a reason to avoid trying the raids.  The belief that only certain frames as allowed in raids is also an excuse many players use to avoid trying the raid.  Don't get me wrong, certain frames are needed to make LoR and NM LoR run smoothly but the belief that you will be excluded if you don't have a *meta-frame* is silly.  As long as your group is willing to bring EV Trinity, a high energy pool bomb carrier and at least one CC frame, just about any other frame can be viable in LoR and NM LoR.  The real key is a willingness to listen to instruction, and the maturity to not rage quit at the first hiccup.

As for why I believe that players do not run JV, the mess that is archwing controls, the bug riddled raid mechanics, and the requirement to have a serum injection (clan only research project too) built and equipped to progress beyond the first portion of the raid all contribute.

 

As a side note, the pie chart that DE presented is incredibly skewed against raids, seeing as the 24 hour lock out on rewards means most players will run them once a day and then move on to other content once they have gotten their arcane for the day.  Some players may run them multiple time as a credit farm, but that is the exception, not the rule.  Looking at any other mission on that pie chart though, you get the same level of rewards every completion for that mission, so of course all those other missions will have higher participation percentages then raids.  If the 24 hour arcane reward lockout was not a thing, and each completion netted you an arcane, I believe that pie chart would look very different.

[Eldnacpeek]

I am either solo, duo with a friend, and rare occasion a squad of 3-4 (if all my friends are able to be on). I don't enjoy being arbitrarily forced into a 4 or more mission that gives miniscule rewards for such an agonizing effort. "Difficult" or not, spamming CC for 20-30 minutes non stop is not fun for me.

Edited September 26, 2016 by LazerSkink

[Chhkt]

0.41% Hive Sabotage...

Good...good...

Edited September 26, 2016 by Chhkt

[Efro_D_Siac]

1. I  have done all raids yes

2. There was a short time when my clan would raid almost nightly but definitely  not recently 

3. It's hard for players to find a group willing to show them the ropes outside of doing it with players you know, and even though are arcanes are awsome, players most likely don't think it worth the time to learn the mechanics for 1 reward at a time

Edited September 26, 2016 by Efro_D_Siac
Changed both to all for got count normal and nightmare law of retribution

[Nlim]

1. I have done the Vay Hek Normal&Nightmare ones a bunch of times but not jordis.

2. No, it takes too much time to organize a pug and I don´t have a dedicated group of people to run it with.

3. It is too hard to group up, newbs to raids aren´t really welcome, the mechanics while not terrible aren´t that engaging when replaying and with the amount of arcanes it is way too hard to actually get what one wants without running a dedicated group (also Insta Fail with one slip up in the NR raid with the fusion core is a major frustration with pugs).

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, Gelkor said:

In fact, having good Archwing weapons and mods is a hindrance because you can more easily accidentally kill the spore ball. You are actually penalized for having good Archwing gear.

The Spore ball isn't affected by AW melee and AW melee mods. If you shoot the Spore with your AW gun (which you shouldn't), that will destroy it.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The Spore ball isn't affected by AW melee and AW melee mods. If you shoot the Spore with your AW gun (which you shouldn't), that will destroy it.

There is a bug of damaging the spore while melee-ing it if you're host. Try not to be ball kicker if you're hosting. 

[Gelkor]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The Spore ball isn't affected by AW melee and AW melee mods. If you shoot the Spore with your AW gun (which you shouldn't), that will destroy it.

They must have changed it from release. When it first came out I kept one shoting it with my max crit Centaur. I couldn't do anything in AW except kill adds and push Jordas between phases in 3 seconds the first few times I tried it, I got fed up and haven't been back.

[Brahkest]

1. I've never done a raid. Tried once but never got past the first puzzle.

2. Don't run them and have never tried since my first time because I'm dreadfully scared to do them. Something about them really puts me off and I'll happily do sorties by myself but raids terrify me. I feel like I'm unprepared but in all honesty I'm probably pretty well equipped. Still can't force myself to do it. Plus I'd like to do it with friends but they're usually not on at the same time.

3. I dunno about other people but a huge turn off for me is grouping up. I don't have a dedicated group and again, teaming with randoms or a premade one scares me. In my first pug group, the raid bugged out and as a newbie, I was treated like scummy trash. Pugs aren't all bad I know but it left a bad taste for future experiences. Also potential disconnects are just ugh especially if you're right at the end and my heart couldn't take that. I also think players may not find it worth the trouble to play raids for one arcane and credits. Personally, I've been fine without raid rewards up until now so I have little investment in doing them.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

done them , but honestly i dont find them "fun" ......

hard or easy it can become a chore if not with experienced players

mostly i do them with 1 other and we knock them out quickly sell the arcanes ....

more fun doing excavation (DSE) or just do infinite def or surv (not because they reward anything but to challenge myself and my clan ) 

[ZeroGenmu]

1) Yes

2) Yes and No (depends on if the group is filled or not, also if I have class that day)

3) It's a pain to do them with pugs even if you have experienced players. Simply because people have different ways of doing it and those people will end up arguing most of the time. Not to mention not a lot of people seem to use a mic in warframe which means that you have to stop and explain things which sometimes becomes a problem too. I stopped doing LoR because of pugs, the arguing just wasn't worth it. Especially when you get that one arrogant guy who thinks he knows everything and starts talking down to the people that are new to it. Can you imagine the amount of arguing and bickering in JV?

I was lucky enough to find a group of people that were running LoR and JV on a regular basis and they let me join them. It made running LoR and JV a lot more easy and more enjoyable. Simply because everyone's having a good time and making jokes and trolling with Nova's portal. (You know who you are lol.) So my advice is to find a group of people and run with them until you get the hang of it, even if you're somewhat new to raid. Because it's running with friends that makes doing those runs worth it. JV might take a while to learn but it's doable with a group you like and trust.

Edited September 26, 2016 by ZeroGenmu

[(PSN)BrutalReaper32]

Here are my answers:

1) Yes, I've completed LoR, and the first stage of JV. I wasn't able to continue because I helped my friends to get the antisuerum, but they left the game after. So now I'm unable to find people that would play JV with me :< 

2) I usually complete LoR once a week (If I'm lucky). And I run it to get some arcanes for my warframes.

3) I think people don't run LoR for two reasons (I can't talk about JV)

a) Because they think the rewards are too random or not worthy. I kind of agree with this beecause the game is extremelly easy right now, and Arcanes are buffs that will make the game even easier. But the META also hurts this. I mean, when we get enemies strong enough to survive being oneshoted by our weapons, people decide to turn off enemies, and sadly we have the tools to do so without any effort.

b) The raid has some issues. That thing of standing over buttons 2/3 of the raid while other guys on the team spam CC all over the place is extremelly boring. I always thought that replacing buttons with zones where you can move around and fight would be better. Reducing a little bit the amount of oneshoting (from enemy and from us) would be great. 
Also, reducing the efectiveness of CC would make both CC and killing useful in that raid IMO. (giving more HP to Vay Hek too, but reducing the puzzle part of the fight would be good too). 

The first thing I can think off would be to balance the combat system entirely and then fixing the Raid themselves. When the combat system is balanced, DE should focus to give an equal amount of puzzle parts and combat parts in longer raids. ( I don't like Destiny itself, but it's raid system would work really good in this game IMO). 

 

[Eminem2420]

1) no

2) no. I was very interested in doing raids but nobody is willing to show me how it's done. The only one I did the host talked down to me and didn't explain anything to me. Just ordered me around like a dog. Never did another. I don't like being belittled.

3) The it's probably the elitism in the raid groups and the terrible experiences people have with them.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

There is a bug of damaging the spore while melee-ing it if you're host. Try not to be ball kicker if you're hosting. 

Hmm, never knew about that host client error. Thanks for the info.

[LSG501]

1. Not yet

2. No... not sure my frames/weapons are quite ready and also you need to have a good amount of time free to complete them. 

3. Too hard/high level, rewards aren't really that beneficial to anything outside of the trial missions in the grand scheme of things, time needed to do them... oh and the 'elitism' that does seem to crop up whenever I see it mentioned.

Edited September 26, 2016 by LSG501

[Silvus-Sol]

Have I done one in my 1,800 hours of playtime? No.

Would I like to? Yes.

Why haven't I? For all of the reasons already stated by others.

[Oranji]

Have you completed the Trial missions?
According to statistics I already did:

• 124 - LoR [Normal]
• 73 - LoR [Nightmare]
• 36 - Jordas Verdict

And I probably hosted about 95% of all that.

Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?
I host raids on our alliance every 7:00pm.
Why? It's the only thing left for me do to other than polarizing new weapons.
Tho I would like to mention that only about 10-15 out of 40+ that are consistently online bother with raids.

Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

1. Because of F***ing Arcane Warmth, Resistance, Healing, Ice, Nullifier & Deflection.

I'm so sorry for cursing but there isn't a better word to describe it.
It's like a middle finger at your back. Some of them even have a rarity of *Rare*.
Like I understand that there has to be some sort of a wall on getting the good rare arcanes like Grace, Barrier etc.
But man most of these resist arcanes aren't even useable it's maddening.

A good example is none other than Jordas Verdict where the worst arcanes you could get is still somewhat useable.

2. Most trials especially Jordas Verdict has very little to almost no instructions on how it's done.
I remember when it first came out. We spent 2 hours on stage 2 before deciding to abort it.
New players have the luxury of watching raid guides on youtube but where's the fun in that?

3. It's hard to find a raid group on pubs.
Harder if your MR is low (Not that it matters alot).
Hardest on your first time.

To add to that. Since most people use the term "raid", you expect it to be like any other raid on an MMO.
Which means you bring the big guns, the sharpest blades and your best frame.
But no. The Law of Retribution puts your team at a disadvantage when you kill stuff.


 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Oranji

[shadowjeff18]

1. Have you completed the Trial missions?

yes i do them nearly daily (atleast LoR)

2. Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?

same as above, do them nearly daily

3. Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

-getting a team of atleast 4 that need to have a good coordination with each other.(unless you know what to do. also there are alot of things you never ever have seen in the game itself. like charging the bomb.)

-if you fail in any of the phases you lose the key and have to restart from the start. makes it more difficult if you barely made it to the next phase. (also a small time to think about things (like phase 2 of LoR. you need to guide the core away. while poeple stand on buttons while enemy's attack the core. if you never done it before you need to think what to do and by the time you know what to do it might be tolate)

[Avereth]

I haven't done them myself, no.  I've watched videos to the point I could probably explain the run to other players, but I don't have a group to run them with and don't enjoy trying to carry players so bad they don't even feel guilty about it.

I don't think most players have, either.

Most players don't do trials because it requires a group, requires skill, requires communication, and because the rewards aren't really worth it.

[Brasten]

1. Yes, a few times on Retribiution. 0 on Jordus.
2. No. Mainly because it is very difficult to find a Raid group as a mostly Solo player who is NOT part of large organized Guild/Clan. Group finding for special mission types (orokin derelict, trails, etc.) remains fairly ridiculously
3.  There is no "looking for raid" so there is no way for people to group up easily with random players for it. And because the access to the mission type is so limited (one per-day) there is no way to practice the missions and learn the mechanics. Which is critical for good raiding.

The environment for Trails outside of dedicated groups that know each other is so horrible, you are seeing it reflected in the play numbers.

What needs to happen is a better Group (Cell) finder than just spam messages in the equivalent of an Internet Relay Chat. For Trails there either needs to be option to play it more times (at increasing costs) or to play it without major rewards (high affinity/credits, arcanes, etc). Getting a better "LFR" (Looking for Raid) system, combine with the option to run the raid multiple times per-day (regardless of rewards) is the only way that mode is going to be salvaged for the "majority".

• Need "LFR" system
• Need multiple plays per day.
  • Reduced rewards after the first

[MystMan]

4 hours ago, TGDM said:

1. Have you completed the Trial missions?

Yes, all three.

2. Do you run them regularly? Why (and how often) or why not?

Not really. Only when friends / clan members invite me or are looking for extra people AND if I have the time since these trials take an average of an hour to complete. (give or take 15 minutes). I never take the initiative to run them myself. I don't really need the Arcanes, I have played Warframe for years fine without them. I see them as a crutch. Right now I have 105 Arcanes laying in my inventory unused (I don't have 10 of any kind to max them). For me it's an ok game mode that I don't mind playing once in a while but not so much that I MUST play it every day.

3. Why do you think the majority of players do not complete the Trials?

It's tough and challenging from the get go without a practice mode. The average gamer does not like this.  And LoR has a high risk of losing all the loot and your time instantly during the Fomorian core part (even in Normal mode). The floor switch part before the Fomorian run makes people outright rage-quit easily when it fails too often. All it takes is one weak link in the chain for this to happen. This discourages people from even trying anymore. LoR does however have an excellent tutorial wiki page and it helped me a lot. JV I am sorry to say however has a sub-par wiki guide. Too much text and vague directions. I had to learn it on my own through frustrating attempts, I still haven't figured out what exactly needs to be done to get to Nerve C in the third phase. That map is a pretzel of a maze, writing "over there, below that container, etc" is not helpful at all. It needs more and better screenshots describing what is written.
I have noticed that some people outright refuse to read the wiki guides to at least give them a minimum preparation, thinking it's gonna be alright. They end up being the weak link screwing it up for everybody and they will never try again.

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by MystMan

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Most of the posts I'm reading here are saying that "Arcanes aren't worth it" or "the method to getting Arcanes isn't worth the effort." I feel that the time constraint that's set now really diminishes the drive in wanting to earn Arcanes, let alone to create a set of 10 specific Arcanes to boost certain QoL mechanics on a cosmetic. If the time frame were more lenient to execute more trial runs to get more Arcanes, then it would be more profitable for players. As it stands, Arcanes can only be earned once per timestamp reset.

And as a final note, Arcanes are definitely worth it. Arcane Grace, Energize, Barrier, Pulse, Trickery, Guardian, Ultimatum (just to name a few).

Edited September 26, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

When they were first introduced they had more bugs than a hoboes beard and frequently crashed. I never managed to complete a lor because of this and it soured the experience. Probably a lot of players in same situation. Heard JV launched in a similar state? Also, no instructions and the 4 player minimum are all hindrances to many. An established meta with groups requesting specific frames and strategies discourages newbies. A possible failure state towards the end of act 2 discourages experienced players from taking on newbies further.

The very way the raids are set up and played is very different from the rest of Warframe, they almost seem a separate mode like conclave.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Because when a mission gives you bad rewards.

Nobody play it.