The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

I like how everyone tries to say that it was vacuum that made carrier prime great, it wasn't or at least not entirely. It was because out of all the sentinels in the game it was the most survivable. Literally this "fix" solves nothing. Even with vacuum being a mobile effect for all sentinels, Carrier Prime will still have the upper hand when it comes to survivability and there for will remain the top sentinel due to it being able to survive high level content. This is sad but true. 

[Aerensiniac]

 

27 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

It sure is a good thing that disagreeing with someone has become white knighting on these forums.

Grow up. Maybe while you're at it experience a new sentinel.

 

Wow this is quite the allergic reaction to the mention of white knights... did i hit a nerve there? :D
Sorry, but is kinda comical and is a pretty accurate demonstration as to why there can be no real conversation. Simply cause for most people its about finding the word which is the most offensive to you, climb on it in a response and go to town with it, ignoring all other arguments, all rational behind or aside of it, and just scream im offended at the top of your lung.
See i always like to sprinkle a few "triggerwords" in my replies because it instantly tells me whether or not the opposition is capable of a rational conversation or not.

I could tell you that the words "white knights" were used to describe players which take sides without having an actual argument or as much being able to justify their position, but yeeeeeah... i guess i need to do some growing up here.... to the glorious new standards of the internet at least where everything is a safe space and not being able of using one's head is a virtue.

Keep on triggering.

 

[BulletsforTeeth]

4 minutes ago, Aerensiniac said:

Your example went off the far side too. a.) coptering didnt break the game. b.) It has an alternative in the new system and what do you know? You dont even need a specific weapon for it any longer because you can do it just fine and in fact more efficiently with the basic, jumping/bullet time mechanics.

Everything considered you did not answer my questions. What does vacuum break so bad that it needs to have tradeoffs? How come it was fine for years and suddenly it needs a nerf?

Also in regards of the developers: Im sorry if criticism is no longer allowed. I actually really am, because it just goes to show how ingrown warframe has got over the years.

Look, you wanna dev bash and call it 'criticism' be my guest. I won't stop you.

I'm merely cautioning civility. It's fine to object to this change. But don't let anger cloud your judgement.

That said, I need to get back to journals. I don't have the time to take an entire course in video game design so I can tell you explicitly why de did what they did. They have their reasons. I'm not a god, and I'm not a coder (yet, at least), but I also know there's a reason for it, and it's not the extreme conclusions you're jumping to.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

11 minutes ago, Aerensiniac said:

Okay, seriously: Go on. Cause this reasoning is not finished, its half done. There needs to be some kind of tradeoff... WHY?

Because otherwise a design flaw would be corrected and for some bogous reason we cant have that? It cannot happen?
What kind of balance are you referring to in the first place that gets eroded by a universal vacuum? What does this hurt so badly that it needs a tradeoff?
 

 

And here is the catch, because if DE is not trying to throw a big middle finger to the playerbase, then all that is happening is even more scarier, simply because it means they have no idea what they are doing.

Literally all the larger youtube channels WHICH THEY ARE PARTNERED WITH BTW have had a take on the issue of vacuum and literally all of them came up with the same conclusion: Touch to take looting system in a game about aerial acrobatics is simply a design flaw. 89% of their playerbase thinks the exact same thing.

So now at this point please go on and try to explain me (no sarcasm, do it, im literally curious) why they need to take an adventure like some 2 year old on a steep learning curve to find out what it is that everyone wants. Because im not a developer, im not a coder, im not a designer and i dont own a game company but from the presented data i can see the problem and the solution just fine.

Why is it that DE who developed this game for god knows how many years has all this information presented, is drowning in suggestions which all point in one direction, STILL needs to embark on a journey like some mentally handicapped 2 year old with a learning curve as steep as cow's face to find out what it might be that everyone wants... just what could be the solution to this problem....?

Cause really. Correct me if im wrong. Please do it.

But at this point you can have 2 picks: Its either the middlefinger towards the playerbase, or complete and utter incompetence.

 

thank you, so much. I needed your post in my life

 

9 minutes ago, Varacal said:

just goes to show how much some players depended on vacuum so much that a range nerf is seen as the end of the world and DE is killing the game

end of the world n a bad decision are two different levels n I think ur exaggerating more than people against the Nerf. Plus people aren't just upset about vacuum, its issue after issue and with vacuum, its more of a slap in the face to alot of players because it was a community idea, a QoL issue, had a mega thread discussion and the devs jacked the thing up, did it in a way that wasn't good in comparison to any other solution proposed, and just to top it off, DE states it 'community driven' when the community involved in the topic all just got their input thrown out the window. Theres so many people that think it should just be innate that nerfing it seems like a 'middle finger'.

[NeithanDiniem]

32 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Further where? It's still gonna be over 70%. People don't use Kavats and Kubrows. DE didn't post about those cause they're not used at all - half a % or smth like that (I'm exaggerating, but you got the idea - it's still gonna be over 70% for the carrier)

You have no numbers, at all, about Kavat or Kubrow usage, stop assuming that you do.

30 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

that 78% is as you stated in recent time, the previous number said by DE was 89% on stream as said by someone else, but regardless, is either side of 80% not a landslide?

Provide the devstream number, because it certainly was not #80

31 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

in regards to the forum, some players express things to others to take to the forums, I get feedback all day from players who dont read the forum. I run a clan n alliance, many of whom know I am active on the forum n look to me for both updates on issues and to give me opinions to take to the forums. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that a whole bunch of players who dont come here aren't happy with the direction of things. I also know that many players dont think its worth their time to voice their opinions because in their opinion DE wont listen anyway. Theres a lot of players leaving and i doubt most of them leave exit notes here.

And? That is a part of game lifespans for people to leave after updates that alter Meta while updates that add content brings new ones in. This is nothing new, at all. If they leave they leave, we'll see their replacements next controversial update.

[Slaviar]

Last time I've checked Carrier's name was Carrier, not Picker

[Hemmo67]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)RAG is NAROK said:

I like how everyone tries to say that it was vacuum that made carrier prime great, it wasn't or at least not entirely. It was because out of all the sentinels in the game it was the most survivable. Literally this "fix" solves nothing. Even with vacuum being a mobile effect for all sentinels, Carrier Prime will still have the upper hand when it comes to survivability and there for will remain the top sentinel due to it being able to survive high level content. This is sad but true. 

prisma shade is more durable ;)

+ invisibility for even more durability

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

1 minute ago, Slaviar said:

Last time I've checked Carrier's name was Carrier, not Picker

And he used to pick up and carrier your loot, now he just converts ammo from one type to another. "Carrier" != "Bullet Maker"

[Beggining]

9 minutes ago, KAHO16 said:

DE should make clear that the Identity of carrier is.

I like how you want DE to flesh out Carrier's character first when we barely have a handful of characters in the game itself.

At any rate, Carrier is still carrying things now, and he has an even more useful precept (free ammo mutation means one more slot for your weapon :P)

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

Just now, Hemmo67 said:

prisma shade is more durable ;)

+ invisibility for even more durability

Only when it works, which from my experience is... well... extremely brief and generally results in me being surrounded by high level enemies when I am uncloaked.

[Aerensiniac]

2 minutes ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

Look, you wanna dev bash and call it 'criticism' be my guest. I won't stop you.

I'm merely cautioning civility. It's fine to object to this change. But don't let anger cloud your judgement.

That said, I need to get back to journals. I don't have the time to take an entire course in video game design so I can tell you explicitly why de did what they did. They have their reasons. I'm not a god, and I'm not a coder (yet, at least), but I also know there's a reason for it, and it's not the extreme conclusions you're jumping to.

I didnt bash anyone. I have described my honest opinion with ample reasoning behind it and openly asked you (or anyone else) to correct me anywhere if im wrong. If someone feels bashed by this, then its more telling of them than it is of me. Also i dont think that anger is clouding my judgement. Once again: Correct me if im wrong.

Alas im really sad that the only thing you could not include was an actual explanation/argument.... no sarcasm intended.

 

[KAHO16]

maybe DE got mad with a lot of Tenno farming ayatan sculpture TOO EASY with vacuum. (and with telos boltace, etc.)

So, DE makes it harder to farm ayatan treasure so that users realize that ayatan treasure is more valuable than before the TVW.

 

...imo

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

17 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Vacuum is META. 

The community complained about META.

DE removed META.

 

From countless times nature takes its course, never learn never will.

it was meta because it was a crutch to fix what a high amount of the playerbase sees as needless tedium n poor design. When you're playerbase feels needless tedium n poor design you dont fix it by nerfing that crutch. The carrier meta would've been changed without the Nerf.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

All content must get the "balance hammer," which is backwards thinking especially for a QoL change. This is why people are getting more unsatisfied with the game. Anything new must have something going against it. People are getting tired and fed up with it.

[Aerensiniac]

34 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

said only by those who never used anything butt carrier

"Said only by 89%+ of the playerbase".

Yeeeeah.... "only"....

 

49 minutes ago, BloodfireSouls said:

STOP!  Before you groan, and go: "Oh not another person here to whine about the vacuum nerf!"  This isn't what that's about.  And In my honest opinion, it's not a nerf.

Range reduced by 50%

"In my honest opinion, it's not a nerf."


Why cant i hold all of these golden quotes.... half of them are worth a meme of their own.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Aerensiniac

[Carnage2K4]

20 minutes ago, KAHO16 said:

There is no reason for use carrier now.

Vacuum became common passive, Ammo case is replaceable with mutation (and has lower efficiency)

Now, what is the character of carrier? Floating potato aka Ammo king?

 

DE should make clear that the identity of carrier is.

 

I'll be speeding up my Braton P. Fire rate and using Carrer with it now... Num num num...

[BloodKitten]

carrier may still be viable, if it convert ammo, you can drop the ammo conversion from weapons for additional damage or mods that help.

although, its nice to use other sentinels, however, i kind wish thier vaccum would increase in range every 10 levels (max carrier vaccum range at level 30)

[BulletsforTeeth]

4 minutes ago, Aerensiniac said:

I didnt bash anyone. I have described my honest opinion with ample reasoning behind it and openly asked you (or anyone else) to correct me anywhere if im wrong. If someone feels bashed by this, then its more telling of them than it is of me. Also i dont think that anger is clouding my judgement. Once again: Correct me if im wrong.

Alas im really sad that the only thing you could not include was an actual explanation/argument.... no sarcasm intended.

 

Hey, I wish I could. But I also know when to admit that I don't know. Being a science oidy, that's kind of integral lol. I just lack the knowledge/experience to do so. I'm also not saying this change is all good, I've stated otherwise actually. I can just see DE's reasoning behind it.

Also, sorry for any typos or grammatical errors, egregious or otherwise. I'm smack in the middle of typing up work for college with a migraine that could kill a horse. Ahh, the joys of adulthood... My &#! x3

[lAtlanticl]

 Mb add the rare mod that increase the vacuum range. 5m - very uncomfortable.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Making vacuum a mod instantly makes it mandatory in any build. I want more customization with my content not less...

[KAHO16]

Thanks for everyone who gave me a useful opinions.

But TVW is too sudden, without prior warning or giving any moment to accept,

So I will need more time to adapt this update.. or maybe I can quit when I coudn't adapt it.

Edited October 6, 2016 by KAHO16

[SenorClipClop]

6 hours ago, TimSin-EGT- said:

It's not an argument for how 6m is BETTER THAN 12m!

In a game where picking up items is only ever a good thing, being able to pick them up from 12 metres away is always better than picking them up from 6 metres away. It's simple math. It's more benefit, less effort. Of course it's better.

This update isn't about finding what's better, though. At least not what's better for the individual player's farming needs. If it were about "better", item collection would be automatic and all drops from kills would be put straight into the inventory. The Vacuum Within is about finding what's fair, specifically what's fair to the wide variety of tools in the Companion category. With nine different companions to choose from (fourteen if we count different breeds of Pets) and all but one of them relegated to just 20% of combined usage by the player base, there's clearly an imbalance in the game. Players feel obligated to use only one type of Companion because they feel they're missing out on too much otherwise. This leaves a huge number of Companions untouched, pseudo-unavailable for players to chunk into their builds and playstyles.

As to why they decreased Vacuum to 6 metres from 12, I don't have an answer. Neither does DE, and they're comfortable telling us that. It's in development. This update is the first step of a work in progress, and they're making that very clear. It makes sense that they have to isolate particular elements in order to evaluate how Vacuum is used and how to proceed with it. If a building is leaning to one side, leaning to one side while looking at it helps, but you need to check the blueprints and delve into the building's foundations to find the problem, and that's what's happening now. We're probably going to see a lot of back-and-forth changes to how,  where, and how much Vacuum works in the next few days.

This is the downside to a continuously-updated game. We are privy to the strange changes, bugs, fixes and constant tweaking and retweaking of all aspects of the game as we play. One thing DE is doing well is that they let us continue playing the game while they work on these changes. Could you imagine if they just turned off Vacuum unti, they gave us the finished product? Or if they shut down the servers entirely until X problem was fixed?

Better or worse, we just have to roll with it. Alternatively, one could also take a break from Warframe, pick up a different game and wait for this all to blow over.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

Carrier, especially the primec is the tankiest of all sentinels. When I need to do more higher content or longish runs Carrier Prime is my go to sentinel. (All other sentinels just die instantly.)

 

Plus carrier's new ammo case mod is pretty handy and useful. I tend to have a few bullet hose weapons I like, so ammo mutations are necessary. (Pizzas are only for emergency)

[VonDodo]

I never finished ONCE ammos since months.....

New carrier have become mostly mastery fodder except for people that use one of those maybe 2 weapons that can end ammo.

[ashrah]

what is point of this change then.....