The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[DrBorris]

No, no no no no no. Area has nothing to do with this, you are pulling objects in a set distance away from you, not painting an area.

 

Besides that I feel as though my opinion is invalid in these discussions because I never really used Carrier outside leveling.

[tbeest]

@LoKor also the sentinel hovers above the ground reducing the radius even more. Exponentially.

Edited October 5, 2016 by tbeest

[lunaticFortune]

20 minutes ago, Senketsu_ said:

the new mechette has 25 status thats more then any machette

It's also, unfortunately, still just a machete, with all of one stance to choose from.

[LSG501]

Yeah looked at the djinn animations and they seemed off, looked like an accordian rather than a 'genie'.....didn't even seem to fit in with the 'original' animation.  Wasn't enough to distract from the nerf to vacuum though.

Vacuum range of 6m is about as useful as chesa kubrow's retrieve mod I might as well walk over and grab it myself in open space tilesets.

I'm still defaulting to carrier (prime in my case) as my go to sentinel.... the new mod is more useful to me than anything else on the sentinels and simply put the prime sentinels are stronger than standard ones. 

Seeing as I've got all of the sentinels except wyrm prime and carrier (sold it when I got prime version) might as well comment on all their precepts, I'll ignore issues of health/shields/armor

Carrier - precepts work consistently at all levels

Deathcube - precepts fall off at higher level

Diriga - precepts work ok if you're in one place but they're just not exactly useful when running around, again they fall off at higher levels

Djinn - fatal attraction draws enemies to you... um yeah lets just not bother with that one at high levels shall we

Helios - I get to scan things for the codex.....yeah thats useful when it's full, doesn't even scan kavat dna or gain cephalon points

Shade - supposedly turns us invisible when an enemy is near.... usually it happens after I've killed said enemy.

Wyrm - can't really say I've seen the precept do much...

 

Realistically the only way you'll get me to use the other sentinels on a regular basis is to 'standardise' the sentinel stats and/or allow all the precepts to be used on all the sentinels, in essence turning the individual carriers into different skins, with the only difference being the prime versions with higher stats. 

 

Currently IF I want a change I grab one of my 2 kavats (usually the smeeta), I'd take one of the kubrows but compared with the kavat or carrier they have limited uses due to them having their own issues (I have all the kubrow types).  Would be nice for them to get the vacuum mod too....you'll need a new precept for the chesa though.  I'm going to suggest health restore, similar to how raksa restores shields. 

Kubrows/Kavats have their own issues admittedly (won't go into this here, they need their own thread for that) but you can revive them unlike sentinels and some people would rather have a 'pet' than a robot with them.. 

[Nep_Blanc]

I like this thread and acutally thought the same give Warframes the carrier vacuum in them as passive, solves a lot of newer player dropouts and makes the game aaaaa lot better.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[KrypTic.]

2 hours ago, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

Vacuum is literally like coptering people only used fast weapons because they wanted to copter as fast as possible making all other weapons garbage. Carrier is way too over used and from this chart DE just put out literally says everything you need to know. DE wants other sentinels to be used hence why they are doing this.

This is all very true and relevant information and is an obvious answer to why the update has been released, however the justification to nerf vacuum because?... what it offers too much to players? i truely do not understand the decision behind this.
Overall, vacuum (it's application) is truely amazing as it rids the game of little chores that all of us players find irritating and even frustrating at times. This new 'universal' vacuum passive is beyond a joke to myself and the large majority of the community at large and goes even further beyond simple chores.

Vacuum as it stood was (at rank 0) a 5m upgrade to the standardised distance of item collection for a player, then when upgraded fully (to rank 5) it increased the full radius to 12m.
On the wiki it states that 'on max level Vacuum has a range of 12 in-game meters in all directions.' meaning, that in all directions, vacuum has a total of 24m of range in diameter, a huge area of item collection, one that has been defined as 'invaluable and the image above supports this' 

so now from the calculations of the new 'passive vacuum' that we're actually receiving a 75% reduction in range when calculating the math in accordance to the overall affect of it's diameter. Even if lets say it's range is 10m (in reference to players pickup collection) even through it's 12 the total pickup area is then A=pi *10^2, which is 100pi. Compare this to a 5m range. A=pi*5^2, which is 25pi. (pi referring to Pie=3.14) *6m vacuum will be 29.6pi* a whole 4 units.. yay.
a more visual explanation down below:

is this really expectable?.... .....

no.

*note* i do understand the complications of vacuum being a passive on all companions as it effects the companion itself, not the player, but why not just have the passive on the player...   please.

 

[abstractwhiz]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

The point of this thread (one of many I'm sure) is to offer a simple and long due solution for both warframes and archwings: 12m radius passive vacuum for warframes and 30-40 m vacuum for archwings.

I'd go one step further and give archwings infinite radius on their vacuum. The major reason people don't play archwing is that pickups are very hard to get, and so you can't gain power fast enough to make playing harder missions viable. As a relatively new player (post-SOTR), archwing missions past the middle of the starchart vary between painfully hard to completely impossible. Most of us have tons of empty mod slots for Archwings and their weaponry, because the mods drop rarely and don't get picked up when they do.

IMO the easiest fix is to just have archwings auto-loot the entire map irrespective of size restrictions and obstacles. No one cares about the reality-breaking implications of grabbing loot from a million miles away. This is Warframe, something something void space magic. :P

Edited October 5, 2016 by abstractwhiz

[Nep_Blanc]

14 minutes ago, abstractwhiz said:

I'd go one step further and give archwings infinite radius on their vacuum. The major reason people don't play archwing is that pickups are very hard to get, and so you can't gain power fast enough to make playing harder missions viable. As a relatively new player (post-SOTR), archwing missions past the middle of the starchart vary between painfully hard to completely impossible. Most of us have tons of empty mod slots for Archwings and their weaponry, because the mods drop rarely and don't get picked up when they do.

IMO the easiest fix is to just have archwings auto-loot the entire map irrespective of size restrictions and obstacles. No one cares about the reality-breaking implications of grabbing loot from a million miles away. This is Warframe, something something void space magic. :P

And well fix S#&$wing pls its gets me sick because of stupid non provoked motions, and well infinite range is a good QoL for arch.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

And by "It" I mean they over-nerfed a simple issue and offered half-assed compromises no one actually wanted instead of listening to the community and going for any number of far better solutions, or going for the old adage of "If it's not broken, don't fix it". Instead, because people were actually playing their game they chose to take away people's toys. We've seen this before. People found a way to game rhino and they made iron skin useless, and we didn't see a rhino redesign for months. Shotguns were good back in the early days? They were nerfed hard. They're good now, but for a long period of time they weren't. People were having fun and progressing through the game? They made mercury, the first damn planet, a massive roadblock and refused to listen to anyone saying it wasn't fun, and ignored all the new players who left before they even beat the freshly redesigned Vor. Of course these are old complaints, they're just complaints I'm familiar with.

So what was the problem with Carrier and Vacuum? People were using it! In fact almost 90% of the Mastery Rank 10+ players used carrier. Instead of addressing the issue of "Why do our players feel like they have to use this item" DE uses the amazing backwards logic of "Lets take this away and force them to play our way". Their initial idea was met with such distaste they had to drop it like hot coals. Now, they've reduced the range of vacuum, but since every sentinel can use it now it's fine, right? Well, no. It's not. The reduced vacuum is almost redundant. you have to get so close to items you might as well just manually pick them up anyway. There seems to be a new delay, as well, whether it's lag or just a stealth nerf to vacuum further I don't know. But if i'm walking towards an item vacuum won't kick in until I'm literally one or two steps from it. Does DE have any idea how redundant they've made vacuum? Probably. I find it hard to believe they didn't intend to do this.

See that? That affinity didn't start vacuuming until I reached the the crack in the ice in front of my frame. They might as well have removed Vacuum for how effective it is now. Which, I can only surmise, is their actual goal with this. Because someone has a real hard-on for making the players of this game go through arbitrary tedium rather than actually enjoy the fun gameplay this game has to offer. This isn't going to fix any of the problems that led to 90% of the players using carrier. It's just going to make people less happy because the over all enjoyment in the game has suffered.

DE, I know you don't read this. But still. In the vague chance you do, let me say this. Picking up individual items isn't fun. Very few, if any at all, players play this game because having to walk over every little resource is the highlight of their session. We love this game because it's fast paced and being able to blast through a level is a feeling very few games manage to capture like this one does. So for the love of whatever logic your staff still has, stop changing things in your game in ways that spits in the face of the very basic premise. All this is going to achieve is driving away the playerbase who don't think Invinciblity Phases in enemies and bosses, waiting to be allowed to do damage, having to stand around and wait for a boss to stop talking so the fight begins, doing absolutely nothing because the last enemy is both invisible and invincible and refuses to stop being so, and finally doesn't find having to crawl around the map to pick up every little item to be especially fun. Because none of it is. Someone on your team thinks taking control from the player is a good idea. It isn't. It never is.

Edited October 6, 2016 by [DE]Danielle
Edited click bait title

[KrypTic.]

Also rip Nekros's survivability. :| goes down the drain a fair bit now..

[Stonehenge]

1 hour ago, DAWGUNITALPHA said:

But it does make the game less enjoyable.

Do you know what happens when people find a game not fun anymore? They play a different game.

Or maybe they just start loot things normally instead of using a space vacuum for lazy old person. Christ.

So fun to see people speaking of the end of a game for such tiny, minor detail. 

[-TSA-TimSin]

(Edit2: Vacuum is now removed and part of every sentinel as passive. Finally, GREAT CHANGE!

And now I am talking ONLY about the range nerf.)

Vacuum 12m range changed to 6m range.

I love the fast paced stuff in warframe and the extremes.

1. I highly dislike running after every resource drop on the map. I want to do the objective, kill some enemies, speeding through a map, parkour jumping or find some rare sculptures. To find some sculptures i need to check every resource icon on the minimap.

2. It's tedious to run the long way to realize it was only some cheap resource on the minimap. (that ferrite was not sucked in)
 

Spoiler

 

 

3. There are places where 6m vacuum range is not enough (Edit3: You cannot reach that loot without vacuum >6m)

Spoiler

 

So please change it back to at least 12m, even if you need a new range mod on sentinel. I cannot understand why you nerfed the range at all.

In my oppinion the biggest part of the playerbase hates that nerf, a very minor part does not care and the least part likes the reduced range.

This change doesn't slow down the progress of players through the content. But for most players the game feels more tedious and less satisfying now.

 

Edit1:

Are there any arguments PRO nerfing the range of vacuum?

Edit3:

I cannot write here HOW MUCH THIS NERF OR TEST UPSETS ME, WITHOUT GETTING WARNING POINTS! ADDITIONALLY ALL THOSE DEFENDING GUYS GETTING NOT ONE ARGUMENT TOGETHER HOW THIS IS A GOOD THING FOR THE PLAYERBASE! AND DE PACKAGED THIS NERF TOGETHER WITH UNIVERSAL VACUUM? JUST &%§$ IT!

&%%%%%%%%%%%%%%§$  IT!

Edited October 6, 2016 by TimSin-EGT-

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Just now, Stonehenge said:

Or maybe they just start loot things normally instead of using a space vacuum for lazy old person. Christ.

So fun to see people speaking of the end of a game for such tiny, minor detail. 

Stopping the fast paced action to chase down resources is the exact opposite of what most people play this game for.

[notlamprey]

Sorry for being a broken record in your thread, but seriously DE.

Just remove the need to pick up loot entirely. Ammo, health and energy - "tactical items" - can remain as they are, and we won't need to break gameplay flow or threaten to throttle players' progress if they don't run all over the map constantly stuffing everything into their bindle.

Loot acquisition can still feel good if we represent it inside the UI. You already have measures to penalize players who go afk. Be brave, and take a real step towards unshackling Warframe from its nasty loot problem.

[Racter]

Just now, Stonehenge said:

Or maybe they just start loot things normally instead of using a space vacuum for lazy old person. Christ.

So fun to see people speaking of the end of a game for such tiny, minor detail. 

Again, it's not even just this "minor detail", though I would disagree that it's minor considering it negatively affects 89% of the player base. It's the fact that DE saw all of our complaints, came up with two absolute dumpster fire ideas, saw our mountain of negative feedback and implemented it anyway.

[Cyandana]

I do.

The vacuum radius pre-nerf was ridiculously huge, and all but eliminated the core PvE experience of "picking up your loot".

It was too convenient, why use any other companion in a game where farming is most of what we do on a daily basis?

I sure as hell am not interested in wasting time running around to pick things up + paying less attention to killing things when I have auto-loot as an option. ESPECIALLY on a time limit.

The mod with the Simaris Conversion mods turned Carrier from extremely convenient to power creepy as hell, Nekros Prime + Health Conversion + Equilibrium? Lmao.

tl:dr Carrier was making everyone lazy. This nerf is DE's spoonful of medicine, to its playerbase.

 

[Stonehenge]

Just now, DAWGUNITALPHA said:

Stopping the fast paced action to chase down resources is the exact opposite of what most people play this game for.

You just have to RUN on things to pick them up you know. It's not very complicated, o 5 years old kid understands that. 5 meters is FAR enough to make things even easier.

 

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

1 minute ago, notlamprey said:

Loot acquisition can still feel good if we represent it inside the UI. You already have measures to penalize players who go afk. Be brave, and take a real step towards unshackling Warframe from its nasty loot problem.

If all loot was automatic it would be easier to deal with AFK players by tying it to the affinity range. If an AFK player doesn't at least catch up then they won't get drops from things other people kill.

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, TimSin-EGT- said:

This change doesn't slow down the progress of players through the content.

Then what's the problem, here?

The game only feels tedious because you're not used to the new vacuum's shorter range. Once you get used to that you'll be right back to rushing through maps the same way you always were, except now you might have to stop and look at a few new things now and again.

[BillyDunwich]

It use to be that carrier didn't exist and you had to manually pick up your loot

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Just now, Stonehenge said:

You just have to RUN on things to pick them up you know. It's not very complicated, o 5 years old kid understands that. 5 meters is FAR enough to make things even easier.

 

Things don't always drop in a straight line. They have a tendency to explode out of enemies like confetti. You might like running in circles. 89% of the community does not.

[Marvelous_A]

The range is not so important if the vacuum works on kubrows/ kavats too. The fact that it works only on sentinels AND the nerf in vacuum range shows that DE has difficulty in understanding community's feedback.

[Xekrin]

So another dev bashing thread.  Moving on.

[SquireAngel]

Vacuum is movement based, so standing still won't pick up loot. This is an anti AFK farming technique. Give it more than 5 seconds, and you might not be so disgruntled about the minuscule nerf.

[Aenris]

I liked the change too. 6m it's okay, it's not thaaaaaaaaaaat bad. (Heck, it was going to be 5m)

Now Mag's own vacuum will be a little more apreciated, as well as the other sentinels. Been running today with Helios and the augment that shows enemy weakness: it's actually pretty cool.

Now let's see what will happen with pets. Might start playing more with kavats and kubrows :P