Thoughts on Carrier being 'still on top'

[AdunSaveMe]

I think we're going at this the wrong way. The vacuum change was not a failure because Carrier is still on top. Every sentinel now has this utility, which was the entire point of this change. It wasn't to nerf carrier so much as it was to give the utility to other companions.

This is a great start. From here we can work on figuring out how to improve the other sentinels so they're more appealing options. Carrier is still one of the best options, but in a different and more manageable way. It's no longer the king because it has all the shiny stuff, it's more like it's above the rest because the rest is in good need of a wash and a haircut.

But as for this change, it was a success, no matter what position Carrier is in now, because everyone and every other sentinel is better off for it.

[Voltage]

if we just buff the eHP of half the sentinels then carrier won't be on top. Sorties results in a one shot to even carrier sometimes 

[AdunSaveMe]

4 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

if we just buff the eHP of half the sentinels then carrier won't be on top. Sorties results in a one shot to even carrier sometimes 

Maybe, but I think the issue with sentinel balance lies more in their abilities.

[VectorWolf]

True, they could use some work, but one thing I really NEED, is a freaking consumable to respawn dead sentinel! Why's it not a thing yet?

[Glitch_Kitten]

 

5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Maybe, but I think the issue with sentinel balance lies more in their abilities.

I agree, I personally believe the vacuum within was another bandaid solution™ (patent pending) to another, much larger issue. The utilities provided by other sentinels really aren't all that fantastic, if I DID use sentinels instead of kavats I'd still be using carrier, its new precept solves a lot of ammo issues and frees up a mod space on bullet hoses, like aksomati or kohm. I can't provide suggestions on how to improve the new sentinels, but I'd definitely like every sentinel (aside from carrier and helios) to get a substantial buff to their utility.

On the topic of companions, I also feel kubrows are under performing, kavats provide amazing and rapid buffs, sentinels are flying roombas that can heal and slow, kubrows feel, atleast in my opinion, outdated and needing a touch up.

[GinKenshin]

15 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Maybe, but I think the issue with sentinel balance lies more in their abilities.

abilities are old and outdated and stats are just pathetic for high lvl content, we even have a mechanic that depends on a low-survivability sentinel to buff a melee weapon that is, when the sentinel dies, will be like any other melee 

if DE will continue with this sentinel 2.0, they need to at least take a look at the sentinel's stats 

[-Amaterasu-]

I don't really think the majority of sentinels need direct buffs so much as a Prime variant or equivalent since it seems pretty stupid to be comparing standard sentinels to a prime one to begin with its stats should naturally be higher than most others.

Given the current condition of sentinels in order to make more appealing options I think they should work on a new prime sent to be released after Nekros and maby make Wraith/Vandal variants for the Grineer/Corpus sents that would allow them to be statistically on-par with carrier / wyrm prime since looking at a regular carrier most sents do feel fairly balanced.

[AdunSaveMe]

34 minutes ago, Glitch_Kitten said:

I agree, I personally believe the vacuum within was another bandaid solution™ (patent pending) to another, much larger issue.

I couldn't disagree more. The vacuum change is welcome, it's not a bandaid. It's just that it isn't the only problem.

4 minutes ago, -Amaterasu- said:

I don't really think the majority of sentinels need direct buffs so much as a Prime variant or equivalent since it seems pretty stupid to be comparing standard sentinels to a prime one to begin with its stats should naturally be higher than most others.

Every sentinel should be viable. It's about their abilities, and their abilities should all be as equally useful as possible, prime or not.

Making a new sentinel does not solve the problem.

[-Amaterasu-]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Every sentinel should be viable. It's about their abilities, and their abilities should all be as equally useful as possible, prime or not.

Making a new sentinel does not solve the problem.

I never suggested making new sents I suggested upgraded versions of our current ones to put them statistically on-par with carrier prime since right now they're perfectly balanced when compared to the standard carrier (That nobody uses because carrier prime is better).

As far as abilities go I think just about all sents are great except for Djin which isn't nearly tanky enough to warrant an ability like that.

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, -Amaterasu- said:

I never suggested making new sents I suggested upgraded versions of our current ones to put them statistically on-par with carrier prime since right now they're perfectly balanced when compared to the standard carrier (That nobody uses because carrier prime is better).

As far as abilities go I think just about all sents are great except for Djin which isn't nearly tanky enough to warrant an ability like that.

Stats are not the solution. Releasing new sentinels, variant or not, is not the solution either.

Edited October 7, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[-Amaterasu-]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Stats are not the solution. Releasing new sentinels, variant or not, is not the solution either.

The whole reason Carrier is still used more than any other sentinel is because it has the most EHP of any other sent, everything else just dies compared to a properly modded carrier.

If the other sents got a buff that allowed them to be survivable and put their weapons on even ground with Sweeper Prime I can guarentee they would get far more use.

if stats somehow aren't the solution then what is? None of the sentinels really have bad abilities (Save for Djin) so I don't see what can possible be improved on there.

 

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, -Amaterasu- said:

The whole reason Carrier is still used more than any other sentinel is because it has the most EHP of any other sent, everything else just dies compared to a properly modded carrier.

That's not the whole reason at all. It might be part of it, but it's not all of it.

Their abilities are the major problem. You might not see any way to improve it, but I do.

[notlamprey]

I'm feeling very free to mess around with other sentinels now.

Carrier (Prime) is only the clear best choice for me in "serious business" situations, where I am bringing my best equipment to guarantee success. At all other times, I think I can comfortably use whatever sentinel I feel like using.

It's a very good feeling.

Any balance issues that remain seem pretty manageable. I'm sure we'll get there.

 

[-Amaterasu-]

4 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

That's not the whole reason at all. It might be part of it, but it's not all of it.

Their abilities are the major problem. You might not see any way to improve it, but I do.

Care to elaborate? I never need extra ammo ever (especially with vacuum which is now universal) except for a select few ammo guzzling weapons so I can't see how that beats out other powers.

[Chipputer]

29 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Their abilities are the major problem.

How? I don't want to hear, "I can just bring a frame to do that," because, as far as Carrier is concerned, I can just bring a mod to do that.

[blackheartstar_pc]

Man I just don't understand why every Sentinel can't make me invisible? Why only Shade/Prisma Shade that s* sucks? Also why does entrancing enemies to slowly walk towards us have to be limited to Djinn? If we are going to mindlessly push for one Sentinels powers to be universal I don't see why we don't just take the next ridiculous step and push for them all. I mean Vacuum is something useless in my opinion. Any frame can walk up and secure an item. What frame can do the invisible thing, or the zombify thing passively... this entire ordeal blows my mind just like the idea of players not even trying a variety of Sentinels. I mean why does Dethcube or is it Diriga have max range? Why not all max range?

/sarcasm >:)

Edited October 10, 2016 by blackheartstar_pc

[Gelkor]

3 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Maybe, but I think the issue with sentinel balance lies more in their abilities.

Absolutely. And now, based on the abilities, Carrier is teh best XD. 

BUT: this gives an interesting framework for giving Sentinels precepts that mimic Warframe and Weapon utility mods, similar to Carriers new Ammo Case.  Which is what I have a feeling you are hinting at with this thread.

Like, Wyrm's knockdown attack precept also passively providing something like knockdown recovery/resistance. (Or switch it)

Maybe have  Dethcube's laser attack precept provide a passive RoF boost, or maybe a fast hands+reload while holstered function. (Like that conclave mod that works in PvE and conclave that reloads your clip while your gun is holstered).

Helios already has that detect weakness precept.

Shade's precept could provide a passive silencer effect on weapons.

Etc...

Edited October 7, 2016 by Gelkor

[----Fenrir----]

5 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Maybe, but I think the issue with sentinel balance lies more in their abilities.

That as well, but survivability is really important too because once destroyed a sentinel doesn't do anything at all anymore. No more abilities, no more animal instinct, no more vacuum, no more of anything. So having enough EHP to not die all the freaking time is really important for a sentinel.

And currently only Carrier Prime has that. Helios for example is ridiculously fragile. And so are most other sentinels.

[EinheriarJudith]

carrier prime may be tanky because of having alot of hp but wyrm prime has equally alot of shield and the same armor value that carrier prime does. if anything something needs to be done with making shields a viable option for survivability. it has been suggested in some threads already. i stopped using carrier now because the only thing i used it for was vacuum ive since been using wyrm prime and djin but all of these sentinels dont really have any abilities that make each one stand out individually.

we are just able now to use loot sucking ability on all of them rather than just one. 80% usage by the entire community is no laughing matter carrier was clearly the most used and not for anything but vacuum. the problem is not only with the sentinels but how loot is handled in the game in the first place.

[Zendadaist]

I'm angling for Syndicate sentinels or otherwise upgraded variants such as more Primes, Wraiths, Vandals and Prismas. Vaykor Diriga with Vaykor Vulklok anyone? Sans syndicate burst because that would get nigh on impossible to control. Give them some stat boosts so they're more hardy; they look after you quite well (Medi Ray, Guardian etc) but it's hard for them to look after themselves.

 

Regen being time-locked based on rank but techncially infinite, or with each rank being a whole revive would help too. Or the consumable gearwheel item to regenerate a sentinel.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Sentinels being able to regenerate more than they can now should be a thing along with some fixes, buffs and more mods and precepts.

On regeneration, what would be better for a trade-off because it definitely should not be for free since you dont have to put yourself in the line of fire to revive pets? 

-each time it is destroyed it requires some of your resources gathered in mission to regen like endo

 -it gets a regeneration timer that gets 30 seconds longer on each death

-players sacrifice part of their total shield/health pool to allow for regeneration  for a bit

- regeneration is tied to a gear item with a limitdd supply on eaxh deployment 

 

 

 

[DoomFruit]

9 hours ago, -Amaterasu- said:

The whole reason Carrier is still used more than any other sentinel is because it has the most EHP of any other sent, everything else just dies compared to a properly modded carrier.

That depends. If you take a hit dealing 500 blast damage, your carrier's going to take less health damage than your helios because of the additional armour. But your wyrm prime will take no health damage at all, because it has 1125 shields.

[Top_Kekkonen]

11 hours ago, VectorWolf said:

True, they could use some work, but one thing I really NEED, is a freaking consumable to respawn dead sentinel! Why's it not a thing yet?

I concur.

[Golmihr]

Maybe sentinels just need a % reduction blast shield that only works for AoE damage.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

11 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

if we just buff the eHP of half the sentinels then carrier won't be on top. Sorties results in a one shot to even carrier sometimes 

What they should do is remove 2 of the sentinels' mod slots (to make up for removing EHP mods), and make them immortal instead. That instantly levels the playing field quite a bit, and how many times have you seen someone letting themselves bleed out so they can get their sentinel back anyway. There really isn't any point in making them targets or vulnerable anyway.  It's not like the enemies can can target and "kill" your guns, for example.