Mastery Rank lockout's are causing you to LOSE money.

[Lucario]

"Sorry! We aren't going to let you give us money because your Mastery Rank isn't high enough."

 

Let me get right to the point, Blocking people from spending platinum to buy AND USE Mastery Rank locked out weapons is a foolish thing. I can understand if you want to block out the blueprint until a certain Mastery Rank is met to prevent it from being made for free, But why are you making it harder for people to spend money on the weapons they want sooner rather than later?

 

I am not going to spend money on a weapon if I have to grind to the Mastery rank to unlock it, I am just going to buy the blueprint and make it for free. Before you try to say you'd still have to save for resources, Do you think I wouldn't have enough resources by the time I reach that Mastery rank to buy it? Yes, Yes I would.

 

Please, Let weapons bought with Platinum bypass the Mastery rank and be usable NOW.

 

In a further edit, Anyone trying to say it would make the game Pay to win, Please, Just don't. If that was the case, The game would already be pay to win because Prime Access is a thing. For those who do not know, Prime Access allows you to bypass the MR requirement of ALL weapons. Read the below posts for the true meaning of "Pay to Win".

Edited October 10, 2016 by Foxirus

[Senketsu_]

because that would actually make the game Pay 2 Win

[-CM-Zenshadow]

Mastery Rank requirements help prevent the "Power Creepness" of certain weapons. With Prime weapons, if you purchase the Prime Access pack, you can bypass the MR Requirement. And like what @Senketsu_ said, it would make it Pay 2 Win.

Edited October 10, 2016 by ZenshadowOfZramx

[Chipputer]

It makes them lose money, eh?

Alright. So, hypothetically, we'll say that it's well known exactly which weapons are the most powerful. Hypothetically new players are willing to buy 1000 plat. Hypothetically, those new players all buy the strongest 3 weapons they can buy and never have to purchase a weapon ever again and, therefore, don't bother trying out newer weapons because they know nothing will quite compare to those 3 weapons.

You say they're losing money because you can't buy your Tonkor at MR0? I say you don't understand the mentality of people who play games like this.

[Deshiel]

You should refoxus your fervor into different matters like. Why there's still no Sepiroth Hairdo for the Operator!

[taiiat]

it's okay, for Players that are easily separated from their wallet, they'll just buy other stuff. lots of other stuff.

[AdunSaveMe]

Funnily enough, they don't take every single option available to them that might give them a bit more income.

Good thing, too.

[StinkyPygmy]

I'd argue cosmetics are the biggest sources of DE's income anyway. That and Plat for trade. I think gating is a good thing and honestly, its not bad that DE isn't so money hungry they're willing to lock some things. Especially consider how often they're accused of making poor decisions and locking things behind assorted walls purely to encourage plat sales.

[Burritochu]

Playing the game isn't so bad, who knows you might even enjoy it.

[polarity]

So you want Warframe to be pay-to-win?  I can't say any horribly unpleasant things about you, but you can be damn sure I'm thinking them.

You know what would really make this game lose money?  Turning into something like all those S#&$ty F2P games with no respect for their players, only their cash.  You don't get millions of players on multiple platforms, and a lifetime of several years peddling that kind of rubbish.

Edited October 10, 2016 by polarity

[Lucario]

@Senketsu_ @ZenshadowOfZramx 

I do not believe either of you understand the meaning of Pay to Win. Pay to Win is when an item or weapon used to win cannot be bought in any way or form by free players. The fact a paying player can get a weapon slightly faster than a free player does not make it a Pay to Win game. That weapon can still be acquired for free. Any wishing to argue farther can simply look at Prime Access that already allows one to circumvent the MR requirement. This alone makes both of your arguments invalid, As that would mean the game is already pay to win and we have nothing left to lose by making this a feature.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Foxirus

[Lucario]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

It makes them lose money, eh?

Alright. So, hypothetically, we'll say that it's well known exactly which weapons are the most powerful. Hypothetically new players are willing to buy 1000 plat. Hypothetically, those new players all buy the strongest 3 weapons they can buy and never have to purchase a weapon ever again and, therefore, don't bother trying out newer weapons because they know nothing will quite compare to those 3 weapons.

You say they're losing money because you can't buy your Tonkor at MR0? I say you don't understand the mentality of people who play games like this.

Technically, New players can already buy the current most powerful weapons. Weapons or frames bought from packs already bypass the MR requirement as far as I have been told.

[Lucario]

13 minutes ago, polarity said:

So you want Warframe to be pay-to-win?  I can't say any horribly unpleasant things about you, but you can be damn sure I'm thinking them.

You know what would really make this game lose money?  Turning into something like all those S#&$ty F2P games with no respect for their players, only their cash.  You don't get millions of players on multiple platforms, and a lifetime of several years peddling that kind of rubbish.

Again, A game cannot be pay to win if the items can still be purchased by free players. A game becomes pay to win when it contains weapons or items that free players cannot get under any circumstance. The fact prime access exist makes your argument on it being pay to win entirely invalid. If we were to follow your logic, It would mean the game was already pay to win because Prime Access circumvents ALL Mastery Rank requirements.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Foxirus

[Lucario]

53 minutes ago, Burritochu said:

Playing the game isn't so bad, who knows you might even enjoy it.

I do play the game and I enjoy it quite a lot. Being able to purchase weapons I like now rather than later, and avoid the MR requirement would not ruin my fun. For the record, I don't find grinding weapons or frames  I do not enjoy, fun. That kills the fun faster than being able to bypass the MR ever would.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Foxirus

[Senketsu_]

58 minutes ago, Foxirus said:

@Senketsu_ @ZenshadowOfZramx 

I do not believe either of you understand the meaning of Pay to Win. Pay to Win is when an item or weapon used to win cannot be bought in any way or form by free players. The fact a paying player can get a weapon slightly faster than a free player does not make it a Pay to Win game. That weapon can still be acquired for free. Any wishing to argue farther can simply look at Prime Access that already allows one to circumvent the MR requirement. This alone makes both of your arguments invalid, As that would mean the game is already pay to win and we have nothing left to lose by making this a feature.

allowing players to bypass levels to get more powerful gear is P2W if the weapon was obtainable for all players without a prerequesite then it wouldnt be P2W. a noob would have an unfair advantage over a noob who is the same MR but dosnt have the money to simply buy the weapon.

[Lucario]

Just now, Senketsu_ said:

allowing players to bypass levels to get more powerful gear is P2W if the weapon was obtainable for all players without a prerequesite then it wouldnt be P2W. a noob would have an unfair advantage over a noob who is the same MR but dosnt have the money to simply buy the weapon.

You realize that if we go by this logic, The game is already pay to win, Right? Prime Access allows you to bypass the Mastery Rank for all weapons regardless of how long you have played the game. Since thats already the case, What do we have to lose? You really can't argue that way here because the argument already defeats itself. If you try to say that would make the game pay to win, That makes the game already pay to win because prime access is a thing. By your logic, You cannot make a game pay to win if its already pay to win.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Yeah, feel like throwing my change in on this too.

The reason for not allowing payment to bypass Mastery is because DE want players to grind the other weapons first. You have to play with the rubbish, crappy weapons before you get to play with the good ones, it's basic RPG logic. By grinding and ranking up weapons before you unlock the better ones, you then actually appreciate how good the good ones are.

As somebody mentioned earlier, if you could unlock a Tonkor at MR0 you wouldn't need another weapon for the rest of the star chart, in fact you wouldn't need anything else really for 90% of the PvE game. Long runs, and certain challenges like Raids and Sorties, true, but up to the highest levels of the actual star chart, there just isn't any challenge that can't be beaten by a weapon like that and a half-decently modded frame.

There would be literally less incentive for a player to progress at all if they could pay to get the best weapons right away.

Now, some weapons are a little silly to have locked, for example I believe that the Stradavar is locked way too high at MR8, especially compared to the Tonkor at MR5... Speaking of which, that's not that high. MR5 is actually really easy to get to, you can actually get that far in your first week if you have time every day. A few months back I had two weeks off work with nothing else to do, and I was able to rank an alt account up to 12 within that two weeks.

But at base, it's another barrier to pay-to-win format, which Warframe definitely doesn't support. Even if you pump in huge amounts of money, unlock dozens of weapons and buy every warframe, you won't 'win' because you still have to play. DE have taken away huge swathes of Affinity Farming nodes, and force you to actually play the game to level and get you to grind to have access to the other aspects of the game.

And yet more of the content is locked behind Play walls, by which I mean that the content is something you can only unlock after playing through enough of the star chart, and then achieving a mastery rank in order to be qualified to play that. After which, a new game system and even a complete new tile set is able to be accessed.

Make it a hashtag, PlaywallsnotPaywalls.

[Voltage]

13 hours ago, Foxirus said:

Again, A game cannot be pay to win if the items can still be purchased by free players. A game becomes pay to win when it contains weapons or items that free players cannot get under any circumstance. The fact prime access exist makes your argument on it being pay to win entirely invalid. If we were to follow your logic, It would mean the game was already pay to win because Prime Access circumvents ALL Mastery Rank requirements.

So call of duty isn't pay 2 win because that supply drop i earned has a .0001% chance to give me the Peacekeeper that insta melts? Pay 2 Win is very controversial and is different in any game. Pay 2 Win in warframe doesbt exist as the "winning" is defined from player to player. 

[MagPrime]

The definition of Pay2Win is subjective and varies not only from game to game, but from player to player.

Bypassing the MR locks with plat doesn't get players to try new weapons nor experience the game as the developers intended.  

If I could buy the Soma at MR0, then I'd never know that the Karak is a decent weapon and I wouldn't have experimented with the Grakata; I would still be at MR4 and coming to the forums so I could complain about how easy the game is.

As to the money loss...no.  Like you've pointed out, Prime Access is a thing, and not only that but I'm willing to get most of the income from the game is in the form of cosmetics, slots and PA.  

So they aren't really losing money, they're just not being a greedy, cash grab company.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Noamuth
This phone is dead to me.

[Senketsu_]

14 hours ago, Foxirus said:

You realize that if we go by this logic, The game is already pay to win, Right? Prime Access allows you to bypass the Mastery Rank for all weapons regardless of how long you have played the game. Since thats already the case, What do we have to lose? You really can't argue that way here because the argument already defeats itself. If you try to say that would make the game pay to win, That makes the game already pay to win because prime access is a thing. By your logic, You cannot make a game pay to win if its already pay to win.

if I'm not mistaken prime weapons aren't MR locked. You just have to grind them. Also if they are MR licked then it is P2W but it stops at that nothing else is P2W and Prime access helps to support the devs so its acceptable to be the only P2W item they have.

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, Senketsu_ said:

if I'm not mistaken prime weapons aren't MR locked. You just have to grind them. Also if they are MR licked then it is P2W but it stops at that nothing else is P2W and Prime access helps to support the devs so its acceptable to be the only P2W item they have.

They're mastery locked if you don't buy prime access.

Pay2Win, in the case of Prime Access, is directly linked to how powerful the weapons are. Sicarus Prime and Glaive Prime wouldn't be considered that, but Tigris and Galatine would (because labeling things pay2win is a fickle business, particularly in a PvE centric game).

[Lucario]

2 hours ago, Noamuth said:

The definition of Pay2Win is subjective and varies not only from game to game, but from player to player.

Bypassing the MR locks with plat doesn't get players to try new weapons nor experience the game as the developers intended.  

If I could buy the Soma at MR0, then I'd never know that the Karak is a decent weapon and I wouldn't have experimented with the Grakata; I would still be at MR4 and coming to the forums so I could complain about how easy the game is.

As to the money loss...no.  Like you've pointed out, Prime Access is a thing, and not only that but I'm willing to get most of the income from the game is in the form of cosmetics, slots and PA.  

So they aren't really losing money, they're just not being a greedy, cash grab company.

They are trying to argue that Mastery rank weapons cannot be bypassed with platinum because it would make things pay to win. Prime Access already allows that. The only difference is that they're paying a monthly payment versus a one time payment to get a weapon they want to play. Bypassing the MR locks DOES get players to try new weapons, I'd try about 6 of them if I could just get them (I would know, I'm a new player). Besides all that, Me buying my weapon and bypassing the Mastery Rank has ZERO effect on you or anyone else unless its just them complaining you are using a weapon that doesn't fit the mission. If thats the case, Too bad. Noone here has the right to dictate what people do to have fun. Even if that weapon doesn't fit said mission, You don't have to play with them.

 

The fact you can't be bothered to try other weapons once you get something good is a personal problem. I play for fun, So I choose weapons that interest me, which just so happen to be mostly Mastery locked. Most people who don't want to sign a monthly subscription aren't going to buy the guns. They are simply going to build them with the vast amount of resources they do have once they reach the MR required for said weapon.

 

You should go play a game made by a company that actually does cash grabs sometime. I'd recommend Mech Warrior online. When DE starts trying to sell solid gold warframes for $100+, THEN you can say its cash grab. You can't really say its a cash grab when they already allow you to bypass the MR requirement. You are just picking and choosing what you want to accept.

[Lucario]

2 hours ago, Senketsu_ said:

if I'm not mistaken prime weapons aren't MR locked. You just have to grind them. Also if they are MR licked then it is P2W but it stops at that nothing else is P2W and Prime access helps to support the devs so its acceptable to be the only P2W item they have.

Me buying a weapon with cash is also helping the developers. None of it is pay to win.

[Lucario]

3 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

So call of duty isn't pay 2 win because that supply drop i earned has a .0001% chance to give me the Peacekeeper that insta melts? Pay 2 Win is very controversial and is different in any game. Pay 2 Win in warframe doesbt exist as the "winning" is defined from player to player. 

You are talking about a completely different game. You are also talking about a game where its primary purpose is PVP. As much as people are probably gonna crap on me for saying this, Warframe was never meant to be a PVP game, its a PVE game. PVP was just something they slapped in to appease the masses.

[Senketsu_]

1 minute ago, Foxirus said:

Me buying a weapon with cash is also helping the developers. None of it is pay to win.

But the devs also want people to experience the game properly. I had to play and grind out every weapon to get to MR22. It was a very fulfilling experience. and the MR locked weapons game me a goal to work towards.