[Spoiler] Regarding the inexcusable state of the transference gimmick

[Dousei]

12 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Especially when you have staffers that clearly play the game and are the community facing brunt of any anger we have. I'm sure Rebecca, Megan, Steve, and Co have similar frustrations on top of being tod by corporate 'hype this for us. no we don't care about the complaints. THIS is what we want you to make happen. Now get to it.'

How can we help them both make their jobs easier as community liaisons while at the same time making it clear that the Operator mechanics are currently orphaned? The whole thing felt like a tutorial but no real gameplay attached and when we try fishing for a use 'oh you wanted to actually DO that? Oh I'm sorry your Operator is too squishy because it's the WARFRAME that's powerful, not the spacebrat.'

 

I have a feeling this is something health gating could fix.

As for 'oh you can't Transference into non-warframe/non-orokin or things that are alive.'

I point to the silver grove. If Silvania can transference into a cluster of trees. We can take over a moa/Grineer/whatever, walk up to a panel without getting shot at, beep boop we're in while the warframe is safely tucked out of the way somewhere. 

Make the Golden Maw a 'corrupted' enemy that's unique to the corrupted. 

Speaking of. Where can we hide our warframe so that spacekid time isn't interrupted because the frame itself is literally standing there getting shot at? Can't it run a Spectre AI or something?

One of my biggest gripes with the quest is that we don't get to use transference on enemies. I would also like to see the maw outside of the quest. It would be cool to see that guy crawling around in tile sets. of course it wouldn't be as  big a threat to the warframe as it is to the operator but i could probs do some damage. some interesting things could come from being to use transference on weaker enemies for example future spy missions could be made with this in mind. 

[(PSN)CuddlyZebesian]

Welp, off to go play other video games while DE patches everything and console players get a more playable AND fixed version.

In the meantime my wonderfully terrible comraderie on the PS4, remember we always get the fully patched version of PC updates.

 

Remember and let us bath in the waters of Sony Quality Control :^)

 

[Awazx]

40 minutes ago, Kiryuin-Satsuki said:

Agree wholeheartedly.

DE have demonstrated time and time again that the people in charge of Warframe's gameplay changes blatantly do not even play the game to a meaningful extent such that they are capable of making gameplay-related judgements.

Frustrating and rather sad.

 

[sharkie_]

2 minutes ago, Awazx said:

 

 

[Akavakaku]

I actually love the Operator system, it's nice to see a new game element that has no obvious advantage and requires creativity to find a use for. 

Yeah I know it sounds like I'm praising it for being bad, but truthfully it's refreshing to find a challenge that doesn't involve just using really good gear, in a similar vein to Spy 2.0 and Lunaro. 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

It feels like a very early iteration, honestly.

Seems pretty easy to fix though.

1 - Give operators faster movement speed, the ability to roll, more HP, more energy and make it so when they die, the warframe does not lose all energy.

2 - Make the stun move open trash enemies to finisher like radial blind and have slightly bigger range / perhaps a slight delay between casts to offset it being spammable over and over.

3 - Make the beam move have more range, deal more damage and perhaps do armor stripping for a short while. That way players will switch to their operator briefly when facing tough enemies to soften em up.

4 - Give us a visual hud indicating the amount of energy the operator has, and ensure he can do a couple casts and combo moves better.

5 - Fix controller issues , specifically the fact that press to crouch doesn't work for void walk.

6 - Eventually, redo the focus trees where half is the current focus trees, while the other half is no-cooldown increase skills that strengten both the regular beam and the charged beam avialable ever X minutes, plus some survivability nodes for the operator.

7 - Maybe give them a melee weapon for close range combat / melee finishers / blocking bullets... Long range being the void beam.

Edited November 15, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[PsiWarp]

Well said. I do cut them some slack from time to time, but clearly this particular new mechanic was rushed (like Focus) and their slack on solidifying the feature shows. They are prone to feature creeping too much and creating swarms of bugs with every iteration, while leaving gameplay in a messy glob to be sanitized in some unknown time in the future.

Gameplay is paramount to the longevity of the game, lore comes in second. If the Conclave team can churn out balance passes on a consistent pace patch after patch, the PVE team can too.

[maddragonmaster]

well i think the transference state feels empty, so i thought about this what if our transference state gets abilities based one the path we choose or have equipped. and when we obtain the transference state we get new things in our focus path that are for transference. kind of want focus powers and transference state combined together though.

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, Monchopin said:

At no point did you stop to say "maybe this thing we're introducing is actually not that good"?

WELCOME TO WARFRAME! :D

[ChameleonDude]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. I love DE and I'm thankful for all of the hard work they put into this game, but this feels so gimmicky and out of place. Better yet, when I have kuva stuff spawning in boss rooms and sorties, it's forced too. I won't lie, I've not been a fan of the operator since day one - so I've tried not to be negative and ruin the fun for everyone else. Transference, however, is just getting in the way of my ability to play.

I'm being cruel to be kind here, honest feedback: The War Within was not what I expected after this wait. Hobbling around a cave and being able to summon a weird kid into the thick of combat just don't feel like Warframe to me - every mechanic from the quest and afterwards just interrupts the flow of the game for no reason. Even focus' implementation felt out of place, but a few seconds of floating was a small price to pay for naramon/zenurik passives.

[MercuryDoll]

It's another episode of "hey, i thought of this cool gimmick, drop everything and implement a barely functioning version of this!", except we waited a whole year for it this time.

They could have refactored Focus and incorporated many improvements to Tenno mode, improved health, more energy, more power etc. Overall Mastery Rank could have also contributed to it. But no, they left them paperweights vulnerable to bullets, which there are plenty of and brings me to my second point.

At the end of Second Dream we see for a moment the Warframe apparently moving on their own, which implied either they can have a will and move on their own, or the Tenno are capable of remotecontrolling them while not being "inside" them. And with this quest we saw our Operator unlocking a lot of potential for new powers, yet when we use Transferrence and go into Tenno mode, our Warframes just stand around like deactivated robots. Why can't they go into auto-pilot mode, similar to a Specter or Syndicate Operative, and protect his flimsy Operator with supessive gunfire?

[Ibro156]

2 hours ago, MercuryDoll said:

At the end of Second Dream we see for a moment the Warframe apparently moving on their own, which implied either they can have a will and move on their own, or the Tenno are capable of remotecontrolling them while not being "inside" them. And with this quest we saw our Operator unlocking a lot of potential for new powers, yet when we use Transferrence and go into Tenno mode, our Warframes just stand around like deactivated robots. Why can't they go into auto-pilot mode, similar to a Specter or Syndicate Operative, and protect his flimsy Operator with supessive gunfire?

Because Lore?

Yeah, the either have to make more scenarios that we can use the Operator or incoperate the Focus Schools into the Operator. Give them four abilities and fifth that is their "OP AoE Mega One Punch Move", or something.

12 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Well said. I do cut them some slack from time to time, but clearly this particular new mechanic was rushed (like Focus) and their slack on solidifying the feature shows. They are prone to feature creeping too much and creating swarms of bugs with every iteration, while leaving gameplay in a messy glob to be sanitized in some unknown time in the future.

Gameplay is paramount to the longevity of the game, lore comes in second. If the Conclave team can churn out balance passes on a consistent pace patch after patch, the PVE team can too.

Eh, no. You shouldn't throw story under the bus. Both are important element to the game. You cannot favour one more then the other. Both Gameplay and story are important. One without the other is bad development. 

Am not saying Operator mechanic is good, just saying don't treat story like piece of garbage either.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ibro156

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

These decisions are made at the top. Someone at the top of DE really dropped the ball on this, big time.

[MercuryDoll]

28 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

Because Lore?

That Warframe's "lore" is the equivalent of letting a class or fresh middleschoolers write the next Harry Potter book aside, i'll refer to my previous post again: Second Dream let Operators move Warframes without being in their Transferrence chairs already, by being in direct contact they could let them carry them around. At the end the Warframe also moves on its own without being in touch with the Operator. Considering the part of War Within where the Tennos awaken their potential and can even use their Warframes as portals to physically move to their location, it's not far-fetched that they learned to remote control Warframes by just being in their vicinity, without having to completely focus on them (which is why they can't use powers during that, just run and gun).

Not everything has to be explained with "lore" anyway, some things are just needed as a gameplay mechanic. They never explained why Warframes always have 4 abilities either, or why you can't equip two secondaries instead of a primary, or hell: why you need two guns, an orokin cell and 24 hours of "crafting" to wield them akimbo.

[Atekron]

2 hours ago, MercuryDoll said:

It's another episode of "hey, i thought of this cool gimmick, drop everything and implement a barely functioning version of this!", except we waited a whole year for it this time.

They could have refactored Focus and incorporated many improvements to Tenno mode, improved health, more energy, more power etc. Overall Mastery Rank could have also contributed to it. But no, they left them paperweights vulnerable to bullets, which there are plenty of and brings me to my second point.

At the end of Second Dream we see for a moment the Warframe apparently moving on their own, which implied either they can have a will and move on their own, or the Tenno are capable of remotecontrolling them while not being "inside" them. And with this quest we saw our Operator unlocking a lot of potential for new powers, yet when we use Transferrence and go into Tenno mode, our Warframes just stand around like deactivated robots. Why can't they go into auto-pilot mode, similar to a Specter or Syndicate Operative, and protect his flimsy Operator with supessive gunfire?

I was thinking about the same thing, remaking this to work like specters do. So, when I press 5 operator would summoned to battlefield just like specters do, holding 5 will summon operator and make me switch to control him, in the same time warframe guard me from enemies, pressing 5 againe would toggle who i'm controling, holding 5 make operator to dissapiar. This could work for duration or energy drain, and operator can use abilities from choosen school. When operator is present on battlefield warframe can't use his ability only weapons and operator can deal with kuva guards and extractors by himself. I think that would fix some broken aspects of this mechanic and don't make me use it when iI don't want to.

[maddragonmaster]

i noticed an way to make the frames act like towers. just put a sentinel on your frame and run around it or stay near it and it will help you fight. though i do wish that the teno's transference state had a little more, like having 4 abilities based on your current path rework focus around the transference state maybe have it were something like madurai's phoenix gaze  as a 4th ability and i don't know what they could do with the other 3. maybe have one that fires a void energy bomb, another be an buff ability, and last maybe something that would benifent a madurai user. and have it were the e button effects more targets then just one target, and instead of a zoom for right mouse button give it a shield for crying out loud. and a interesting idea would be to have it were the teno gets buffed by being near its frame and debuffed when the teno is too far away from the frame. not sure how good that last idea, some might not like that idea.

[TheBrightKing]

14 hours ago, Monchopin said:

We're currently in a patch that has been delayed for more than 6 months, and has been in the works for over a year. At no point did you stop to say "maybe this thing we're introducing is actually not that good"? Because even if you didn't, maybe somewhere in the development of this gimmick you could've stopped to ask yourselves whether it was working as intended or not

I could maybe overlook this if it was filled to the brim with bugs, but you can tell from a mile away that you didn't really stop to test this for functionality or fun at all, this is all your design working as intended and that's a big middle finger to your own players

Tenno get less defensive stats than a sentinel, are reset if they are damaged, which also causes you to lose all your energy and to have a back-and-forth switch between your tater and your warframe because in the event of kuva farming the room is goddamn swarming with enemies, and they don't even get enough energy for a stun and two dashes, which would be enough to take a guard and dash for kuva - you barely get to do one or two of those before whooshing back into your frame, which again, leaves you without tenno energy for about 10-20 seconds before you can actually try again, which limits your abilities greatly and also makes you miss out on potential kuva before it reaches the siphon

I generally try to look on the bright side of things - "with these and these changes, it might work out just fine!" but you've had a really long time to concept-proof and test your stuff, and you clearly didn't, because you made a last-minute delay the day of deployment

The worst part for me is that in the quest the system is not actually that bad, which means that you downgraded it specifically for the intended gameplay of your own game

I'm all for respectful and constructive criticism, specially if it's for the betterment of this game, but you've had more than enough time to think stuff through and you clearly didn't take your chances, because otherwise we wouldn't have gotten whatever this duct-taped pile of gimmicks you call a patch 

I really like this game, and it pains me that you keep diverting the gameplay and actual content that needs attention in order to keep introducing these broken gimmicks that add nothing to the game that you keep leaving aside when the next big thing comes along, and people have been telling you this for years

 

Plain and simple, what are you doing?

Tbh if they do it correctly this could fix and improve focus system by linking them both, the focus tree could be an ability tree for the operator, this would be awesome tbh, and i hope they do it since its a good oportunity to improve both systems by linking them

[TheBrightKing]

14 hours ago, Dousei said:

One of my biggest gripes with the quest is that we don't get to use transference on enemies. I would also like to see the maw outside of the quest. It would be cool to see that guy crawling around in tile sets. of course it wouldn't be as  big a threat to the warframe as it is to the operator but i could probs do some damage. some interesting things could come from being to use transference on weaker enemies for example future spy missions could be made with this in mind. 

Not only the maw but controlling orokin traps, like neural sentries, lazers and turrets etc...

[Pendragon1951]

I believe the OP has a valid point, other than Kuva farming would you really use the Operator anywhere else, Of course not, he/she is just a impractical gimmick to use in the actual world of Warframe where the Warframes themselves are so much more powerful themselves. I also have to wonder with more than 6 months in development, why are you still testing the quest on the day of deployment?