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Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

Cyborg-Rox

By Cyborg-Rox,
in General Discussion

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Stoner

Stoner

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LordOfScrugging said:

there are elements of both skins. I think there are those that say she's based off tortured valkyr due to the bonds and restraints on her arms. other than that, it looks like gersemi in the torso region. 

Not at all, if you look at her legs, arms and back, it definitively comes from the tortured version. As well as the bastet prime helmet. Only element that look close to Gersemi is her torso like you said.

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arch111

arch111

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Senpai-Pie said:

All of that in addition with DE personally mentioning they decided to go with a design similar to the vanilla.

That's it then.  No need going round and round about that any more.

Mynki/Steve choose tortured version over Gersemi.

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(PSN)DesecratedFlame

(PSN)DesecratedFlame

Posted
Posted (edited)

It would not have been unfair to use the deluxe skin as a base, especially considering all the yellow, construction-paper triangles they would have pasted on the prime variant. Hell, I am constantly asking for premium skins to make the primes look like their non-prime variants.

All this choice did was destroy any hope of people taking WF's lore seriously.

The better choice would to have made a gaudy prime based on the premium skin, and let players use the original skin if they bought it. -OR-  Wait, don't make a Valk Prime, and make Valk's upgrade an Umbra instead. Depending on what you make umbra's it could have still given her an upgrade without forever breaking the lore.
 

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Can we please just take a moment to appreciate how much gorgeous Valkyr Prime is, without caring about her lore just a few minutes ?

It looks ridiculous, even aside from the lore issues.

Edited by (PS4)DesecratedFlame
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SpeedOfLightPuncher

SpeedOfLightPuncher

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, PoobahTheGrand said:

First: Gemeni is not "just" a skin

Second: She was a Warframe before Alad V, and therefore had powers before him, which were slightly altered to show that in the skin

Third: Gave up on giving false information?

 

First: It is a lore tied skin, it still doesn't give powers

Second: So they still aren't the same powers 

Third: Bruh 

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NeonNemesis

NeonNemesis

Posted
Posted

I was reading this to see if it was another complain about the bonds, but what it looked to me was instead a "I bough gersemi, but now the prime looks sick so I want something that doesn't make me feel like I wasted plat" (no idea if you do have or not the gersemi but the way you presented that and the requirement of having it makes it sound like it's the case)

Either way, a 2nd deluxe skin? Like really? Mag (soon Ik), Volt, Ash (soon), Ember, Frost, Vauban and Nekros have been around before Valkyr, no deluxe skin, and suddently Valkyr should have a 2nd deluxe because... she already ran over Banshee on her way here.

About her lore controversy 1st google for gersemi prime, you'll find a side to side comparison between the 3 Valkyrs and the prime resembles gersemi much more than the regular one. 2nd the Valkyr we have access is either a reconstructed Valkyr by Alad, deemed a failure because he didn't had acess to Void power like tenno have or the result of Alad striping her out of armor (her gersemi armor is on Zanuka if you take a look). Think about Zone of Enders 2 when you get Naked Jehuty, same power (actually it had more but you get it), defense and basic abilities, but totally striped of armor and looking like a skeleton. Same here, your tenno void power fuels everything on her even if certain components are missing.    

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Mints

Mints

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Stonehenge said:


Yeah, by the way, my english is not perfect, can you tell me what Ballas says exactly ?

Why is he so suspicious about the Corpus ? "We must st watch upon them."

Like in the last era of Orokin Empire, the Corpus had grown in power and wealth beyond what was acceptable for Ballas.

So this merchant guild was dangerous and concerning even for them, under their rule ? It reminds me Dune somehow, with an emperor

powerless without the Navigators Cult.

 

I understood well the purpose behind Saryn conception, but Vauban... not so much.

The Orokin were the undisputed rules of mankind, or at least that's what they believed they were. Mainstream human society very likely glorified, idolized, and feared the Orokin as their betters. The Corpus, on the other hand, are a cult focused on an abstraction of success: Profit. The concept of Profit as the ultimate virtue would be troubling to the Orokin for a range of reasons. Profit implies growing wealth. Growing wealth implies growing power. Growing power equates a real and present threat to the status quo, that being the Orokin Empire's dominance.

The same basic principles have driven class wars throughout human history like Aristocrat Class vs. Merchant Class. In the Age of Exploration it became fairly common for wealthy merchants to simply buy aristocratic titles. The devaluation of nobility started breaking up social boundaries and blurring the lines between classes. People started to think they could challenge their betters. Surely you can see why the Orokin would keep the Corpus subjugated.

What happens if the wealthiest of the Corpus, their cult essentially operating as a pyramid scheme, become the Orokins' equals in wealth or power? What happens if the Corpus Elite, like Nef Anyo, were to get their hands on Kuva and Continuity? That would not be an acceptable possibility to the Orokin, whom have demonstrated a despotic degree of control over mankind as a whole.

Edited by Mints
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Unbeholden

Unbeholden

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Misgenesis said:

How does it lack resemblance to Gersemi. I just dont see it, looks much more like Gersemi to me. And the 'bonds' are there probably because of artistic reasons.

If you watched the devstream they said it was based on classic Valkyr. The only resemblence is the stubby tail.

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Can we please just take a moment to appreciate how much gorgeous Valkyr Prime is, without caring about her lore just a few minutes ?

I played Valkyr a little bit with her regular design because Gersemi is basically a Nyx with a different helmet, her Prime version seems wonderful.

So yeah there are lore issues but... There are lore issues everywhere. If you're so pure, you just have to forget about Valkyr Prime's existence and believe that Gersemi is Valkyr Prime in your mind. We won't blame you for that.

I personally think the current Valkyr Prime is hideous, if you like it then fair enough cause different tastes and all that.

You admit there are lore issues but i believe it was market demand that made them chose the original, in which case i'm proposing a marketable reason to also have what i've outlined. I don't want to take away the current Valkyr Prime as that would be unfair to those who do like it.

 

I'll polish this later on phone right now.

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Stonehenge

Stonehenge

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Mints said:

The Orokin were the undisputed rules of mankind, or at least that's what they believed they were. Mainstream human society very likely glorified, idolized, and feared the Orokin as their betters. The Coprus, on the other hand, are a cult focused on an abstraction of success: Profit. The concept of Profit as the ultimate virtue would be troubling to the Orokin for a range of reasons. Profit implies growing wealth. Growing wealth implies growing power. Growing power equates a real and present threat to the status quo, that being the Orokin Empire's dominance.

Same basic principles that have driven class wars throughout human history like Aristocrat Class vs. Merchant Class. In the Age of Exploration it became fairly common for wealthy merchants to simply buy aristocratic titles. The devaluation of nobility started opening up social boundaries and blurring social lines. People started to think they could challenge their betters. Surely you can see why the Orokin would keep the Corpus subjugated.

What happens if the wealthiest of the Corpus, their cult essentially operating as a pyramid scheme, become the Orokins' equals in wealth or power? What happens if the Corpus Elite, like Nef Anyo, were to get their hands on Kuva and Continuity? That would not be an acceptable possibility to the Orokin, whom have demonstrated a despotic degree of control over mankind as a whole.

Makes sense, i would agree with that.

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Unbeholden

Unbeholden

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, NeonNemesis said:

I was reading this to see if it was another complain about the bonds, but what it looked to me was instead a "I bough gersemi, but now the prime looks sick so I want something that doesn't make me feel like I wasted plat" (no idea if you do have or not the gersemi but the way you presented that and the requirement of having it makes it sound like it's the case)

Either way, a 2nd deluxe skin? Like really? Mag (soon Ik), Volt, Ash (soon), Ember, Frost, Vauban and Nekros have been around before Valkyr, no deluxe skin, and suddently Valkyr should have a 2nd deluxe because... she already ran over Banshee on her way here.

About her lore controversy 1st google for gersemi prime, you'll find a side to side comparison between the 3 Valkyrs and the prime resembles gersemi much more than the regular one. 2nd the Valkyr we have access is either a reconstructed Valkyr by Alad, deemed a failure because he didn't had acess to Void power like tenno have or the result of Alad striping her out of armor (her gersemi armor is on Zanuka if you take a look). Think about Zone of Enders 2 when you get Naked Jehuty, same power (actually it had more but you get it), defense and basic abilities, but totally striped of armor and looking like a skeleton. Same here, your tenno void power fuels everything on her even if certain components are missing.    

You say it looks more like Gersemi but this is simply not the case, it looks like classic with an overcoat melted on.

No "wings", no proper tail.

Regardless of what i think the DEVS said it was modelled after classic Valkyr in the Devstream.

I bought Gersemi when i first started playing and i use it with Bastet helm if you must know.

I have bought 2 prime access aswell so i'm not crying over any plat.

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arch111

arch111

Posted
Posted

Ok so devs thought it would be unfair to valkyr-owners that did nit buy Gersemi skin.

They instead made a slightly different experiment-valkyr and primed that instead. 

I see a good intention here. I allso see a deliberate conflict of own lore. 

A bit of a mess that.

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Navarc

Navarc

Posted
Posted (edited)

A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice.

Valkyr Primes codex states she's unscarred by time, yet she's vivisected, literally scarred & put in bonds.
The things that separate Valkyr & Valkyr Gersemi is

  • Valkyr is scarred
  • Valkyr is bonded
     
  • Valkyr Gersemi has a tail
  • Valkyr Gersemi has wings
     
  • Valkyr prime has no tails
  • Valkyr prime has no tail
  • Valkyr prime is scarred
  • Valkyr prime is bonded.

Therefore - Valkyr Prime breaks the lore by having been tortured despite stating she has not been, being tortured before being put on Alad Vs table & Gersemi existing whatsoever makes no sense because apparently, she has always been tortured which DE states twice is not the case.
What is going on here?



This is as silly as when DE made Nova Prime after saying Nova Prime is a new invention by the Tenno and not a recovered frame which implies there is no Orokin original of her because she wasn't made by the Orokin and wasn't around during those times.

Edited by Navarchus
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Stoner

Stoner

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Can we please just take a moment to appreciate how much gorgeous Valkyr Prime is, without caring about her lore just a few minutes ?

I played Valkyr a little bit with her regular design because Gersemi is basically a Nyx with a different helmet, her Prime version seems wonderful.

So yeah there are lore issues but... There are lore issues everywhere. If you're so pure, you just have to forget about Valkyr Prime's existence and believe that Gersemi is Valkyr Prime in your mind. We won't blame you for that.

Remember, we are basically DE's boss, us the players (They literally said it in the previous Devstream).

If the whole community doesn't care about lore, do you think the devs will? Don't take it personally but with this mindset of not caring about lore, that's probably one of the reasons why this game lacks any.

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lightdragon64

lightdragon64

Posted
Posted

what if valkyr prime isin't the orignal warframe? what if umbra valkyr is?

meaning that the umbra warframes were the originals, the orokin created clones of them for the tenno to use, then the defaults were cheap replicas made in order to produce numbers? meaning that the umbra valkyr could look more like the gemersi skin?

 

just a thought...

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