Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Nop. body of geresmi.  arms of og. helm of og, baset, and a lil new.

Also easily explained as OG valkyr is the OG version just mutilated. Geresmi being a recreation of the prime but with less orokin tech/experimenting.

Of course DE is concerned. They didn't exactly plan this out. But the explanation above would be lore friendly. Though people gots thier own head cannon and won't like it even if it can fit in the lore.

Geresmi's description doen't factually state it was THE og. just that it came before alad. so no actual retcon. just poor planning/explanation.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, NekroArts said:

And you're not? We have no solid evidence that everything on Tortured-Valkyr belongs to the Corpus. Some appearances on Tortured-Valkyr could very well belonged to Valkyr Primed first; however, there's no evidence to support this nor denying it. We know that this is how she looks like after being tortured, but we don't know which part did the Corpus implanted and which was already there. The Stalker and Excalibur share the same body design, but who was the one that had it first and who copied it later? We don't know, there's no concrete evidence that will answer it, same with Valkyr.

Every version of the lore here are pure interpretation of what little concrete evidence we have, including yours.

Assumption, sure... It's also common sense. You're telling me the things that go through her body and arms and the blood was there before she was captured? I highly doubt that. 

Are we going to forget everything about Valkyr we knew until now and just let DE change her lore because they screwed up on the prime? And now everything we've been taught about her is a lie? That's very disturbing. 

You know before this Valkyr prime thing, I'm pretty sure everyone assumed the things on her arms were corpus. It looks corpus, it has the same colors, same forms and you can put "tubes" into it that also look corpus. But now?? Now that Valkyr prime has the same corpus things on her? Now its not corpus anymore, no. People are changing their minds as they go. It's entirely possible that Devs screw up and they did. And it's even more disturbing that people are "Ok" with it. 

I guess Valkyr's player base is very small, considering the amount of people that does not care at all.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Stoner74

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

DISCLAIMER:  I'm not stating this as fact.  Nor am I saying that DE planned it this way.  This is simply me as a hardcore valkyr player trying to give the best possible insight on the lore and the situation using some theory crafting to make everything sound lore wise.  You don't have to like it or agree with it.  That's not the point.  The point is to give a situation in which everything fits.  which is completely possible.  Anyway...

Backstory:  The skin we see from crafting the base valkyr tells us that at one point Alad V had captured Valkyr and started torturing and experimenting with her.  This explains her bonds, implants, torn flesh and face.  However this doesn't state that valkyr was literally made in those labs.  Nor her powers.  As far as this version goes the hate/pain she feels is caused by what she dealt with.  She can't be corpus made because nothing in the lore has ever shown people outside the orokin being able to make an actual warframe sans us Tenno.  Her powers could have visually been altered by the torture and feelings.  but they've done the same thing.  They can't be "new" powers because again.  saladv didn't make her.  he captured her.

 

Geresmi skin:  "BEFORE ALADV BEFORE EXPERIMENTATION THERE WAS GERESMI..." or something like that.  This alone doesn't give us very much information merely that there was a time when Valkyr didn't look like a torture victim.  Geresmi CAN'T be the first.  because the first is always the prime version.

 

Valkyr prime:  There is a lot going on here.  But I first want to point out the visual aspect.  if you are very familiar with Valkyr and her different looks you can see that her prime borrows from all of her options.  Her body looks like geresmi.  Same with the hands and feets.  But she's got the bonds and implants of the saladv look.  Her head borrows from the bastet helmet the most imo.  But it has a hint of the saladv version in it (the grey bits and eye slits) and also something new of it's own.  which is typical of the prime versions.  This one is also lacking a tail (unless it comes out like a projection from the bolted part when in hysteria de pls.)

On to the lore implications.  Or rather an explanation.  Prime valkyr was the first.  Bonds and implants on this can mean that orokin themselves did a little testing to see what would happen if they pushed a warframe too far.  and how it would react.  Alad V could have in the process of expirementing been taking a page from the orokin books and testing in much the same way as they did.  Then sometime later someone made geresmi.  With less or none orokin tech/influence.  and no torture/experimenting.  Then time passes and the factory issue frames start being made due to budget problems plus the war not going so well.  Alad V gets ahold of one of these factory issued Valkyr  and starts doing what he did.  thus creating the look that is with the base valkyr.

 

DE's statement:  On stream they did question why they went with this artistic direction.  However I believe people are reading too deep into this.  None of them do the art design I think.  So they likely didn't see that the prime actually has bits of all 3 looks in it.  Lore wise well look.  DE didn't plan that.  Nor the explanation I gave.  however in their own fumbling around writing the universe as they go they created enough space to make the above explanation plausible.  I'm sure they will make proper sense of it all someday and it will make sense.

 

Conclusion:  I can understand and appreciate the fact that some people find this to be annoying or sloppy.  I can appreciate and respect that some people imagined this situation differently and it didn't meet expectations.  Same thing happened when we found out what Tenno are.  And if people want to refuse this explanation or future ones from DE that's their right.  However I think it's a bit much to state that DE doesn't care about lore.  Or they are lazy with lore.  You have to remember the game didn't start with an established universe.  It's been out for several years and they do make constant changes game play and lore wise when they come up with a more coherent idea on how they want something.  It's just something you have to accept if you plan on investing into this game.

Thanks for reading

~yours truely a Valkyr main <3

[Fast_98]

Yeah the only similarities I see are the arm attachments. It could be possible that Valkyr Prime had them originally to hold her claws or were their purpose were amplify her claws power while the the deluxe skin version being the original lost them because they were only for the Primes and because her claw are weaker (Primes are stronger then normals). Hell Salad V might have took a couple of ideas from the orkin and stuck the arm attachments on his version to maker her stronger. Boom lore crisis averted and if we must continue then I guess the helmet might bare some resembles to salads V but not really. Every Primes helmet is different from the original (vauban, Frost, nekros, etc) Honestly this sound like you guys are making a mountain out of mole hole.

[-skimmer-]

19 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Assumption, sure... It's also common sense. You're telling me the things that go through her body and arms and the blood was there before she was captured? I highly doubt that. 

Are we going to forget everything about Valkyr we knew until now and just let DE change her lore because they screwed up on the prime? And now everything we've been taught about her is a lie? That's very disturbing. 

You know before this Valkyr prime thing, I'm pretty sure everyone assumed the things on her arms were corpus. It looks corpus, it has the same colors, same forms and you can put "tubes" into it that also look corpus. But now?? Now that Valkyr prime has the same corpus things on her? Now its not corpus anymore, no. People are changing their minds as they go. It's entirely possible that Devs screw up and they did. And it's even more disturbing that people are "Ok" with it. 

I guess Valkyr's player base is very small, considering the amount of people that does not care at all.

Have you considered that maybe the corpus bits were attempts at reverse engineering some of the original parts, building them and sticking them back on her just to see if they built it correctly and if she still works? It would also explain why we keep replicating broken Valkyr design without removing the corpus stuff. They are just crude corpus imitations of the original bits...

I mean, alad was mostly interested in harvesting tech from warframes and putting it into his zanuka. It doesnt really make sense for him to be interested in building Valkyr.

Though to be fair, that kinda clashes with what the Gersemi skin was supposed to be. Then again, those deluxe skins never really seemed to be canon to begin with...

There really should be a proper quest about Valkyr....

Edited November 19, 2016 by -skimmer-

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

It's not like they can't turn back . Just take off the bonds/shackles or make them a prime accessory. Add a prime version of the gersemi elbows , Change the helmet & boom we're good . 

[-skimmer-]

Or they could make us a nice quest explaining everything...because thats the best route I can think of.

Im not even asking for it to be shipped with Valkyr prime. Just...eventually. Please.

Edited November 19, 2016 by -skimmer-

[Loviam]

Thank you so much mate. Finally someone has been able to put into words what's been rattling around in my brain. 

I LOVE YOU!!! ????

[Ailissa]

1 hour ago, Cyndocrit said:

She has a similar color scheme of Loki Prime.

White and gold is similar to a lot of Primes.

[Misgenesis]

I still see more Gersemi in it than regular. Maybe i should get my eyes checked?

[-skimmer-]

Actually it seems kinda plausible that Alad got hold of the streamlined Tenno version of Valkyr but found orokin blueprints of Valkyr prime (we raided orokin towers for warframe blueprints all the time). And then perhaps tried he to rebuild the Prime version out of corpus tech and stick it on Gersemi? Corpus are said to fanatically worship the Orokin.

Edited November 19, 2016 by -skimmer-

[Noobverest]

Lets just forget about Alad V

[Stoner]

19 minutes ago, -skimmer- said:

Have you considered that maybe the corpus bits were attempts at reverse engineering some of the original parts, building them and sticking them back on her just to see if they built it correctly and if she still works? It would also explain why we keep replicating broken Valkyr design without removing the corpus stuff. They are just crude corpus imitations of the original bits...

I mean, alad was mostly interested in harvesting tech from warframes and putting it into his zanuka. It doesnt really make sense for him to be interested in building Valkyr.

Though to be fair, that kinda clashes with what the Gersemi skin was supposed to be. Then again, those deluxe skins never really seemed to be canon to begin with...

There really should be a proper quest about Valkyr....

Like I said on my previous post, people change their minds as they go. And I never thought about that because the things on her arms looks like the kind of thing you would put to hold someone down in place, in my opinion. 2 parts where it goes through her arms and the other part seems to be attached to her wrists. And the tubes attaches to it so i don't think that'd be the claw thing. The tubes are also very similar to the ones on her Kara helmet. Which also has lots of Corpus parts. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

It's not like they can't turn back . Just take off the bonds/shackles or make them a prime accessory. Add a prime version of the gersemi elbows , Change the helmet & boom we're good . 

i'm 100% fine with how the prime looks.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

53 minutes ago, -skimmer- said:

Or they could make us a nice quest explaining everything...because thats the best route I can think of.

Im not even asking for it to be shipped with Valkyr prime. Just...eventually. Please.

quests for all frames sounds cool

[Etan-gK]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

 Geresmi CAN'T be the first.  because the first is always the prime version

Thank you! people always seems to forget about this whenever prime lore based complaint threads pop up

[khisartin]

"Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was the Gersemi Valkyr."

Before Corpus AND Alad V specifically. Which is means the Original - Prime version of Valkyr - can't be created by Alad V and by then: shouldn't be based on her default (after-Corpus, after-Alad V) look. Chronology is like: Prime (Gersemi Prime) -> Common Warframe (Gersemi) -> Any other variations (Valkyr)

Default Valkyr has a collar, shackles on her hands been attached to something with wires (Valkyr Bonds), her whole body is stitched with wires - it's clearly a Corpus thing, and when Prime warframe was made Corpus didn't even exist as a faction.

And for some reason Prime Valkyr has all Corpus-themed features. Though I kinda (?) understand why DE choose to Prime her default appearance.

-----

For those who can't see the similarity between default Valkyr and her Prime I made a comparsion.

And then I added over her Gersemi skin some gold according to her Now Existing Valkyr Prime, thinking how the common Gersemi was simplified in design compared to her Gersemi Prime: http://imgur.com/a/OyWSX Also I stayed with her new Prime Helmet because I like it, except the collar.

Note: I'm not pretending to be an author of a concept, it all goes to DE, I just drawn some things over. DE, if you're not allowing to use your concepts in such way, please tell me and I will delete it.

-----

P.S.

Spoiler

 

If we go a little deeper - I'm not going to say this is how it was while developing, but it just fits - "Gersemi" is the name of a half-goddess, daugther of Freya - a goddess associated with love, beauty, fertility, gold (Hello Orokin just kidding), war, and death - and Od\Odr, who is a mortal\an incarnation of Odin in mortal man. His name is in Old Norse means "Divine Madness, frantic, furious, vehement, eager", as a noun "mind, feeling" and also "song, poetry".

Valkyries are kinda lower in hierarchy compared to half-goddesses. Which is symbolic - Corpus captures a half-goddess (named so by Orokin), tortures her and Gersemi fells down to a raging Valkyrie, loosing some of her features. Also, another Corpus-styled helmet (Kara) is actually named after a Valkyrie.

 

P.P.S. I'm sorry for my English - its not my native.

[Loviam]

2 hours ago, -skimmer- said:

Actually it seems kinda plausible that Alad got hold of the streamlined Tenno version of Valkyr but found orokin blueprints of Valkyr prime (we raided orokin towers for warframe blueprints all the time). And then perhaps tried he to rebuild the Prime version out of corpus tech and stick it on Gersemi? Corpus are said to fanatically worship the Orokin.

THIS GUY HE FUCKiN GETS IT

[Azur_Fenix]

Here is my write up. DE messed up and Goofed.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Azur_Fenix

[Loviam]

4 minutes ago, Azur_Fenix said:

Here is my write up. DE messed up and Goofed.

Here is the correct write up. They did exactly what they always do. Follow the numbers.

 

[Mak_Gohae]

2 hours ago, Etan-gK said:

Thank you! people always seems to forget about this whenever prime lore based complaint threads pop up

The mass produced frames are the toned down versions of the primes.

So why would the prime not look like a cool mass produced model and instead looks like the experimented version that was JUST created by Alad?

They messed up before with Nova and they are doing it again.

This was a question asked when they started releasing all the primes, that there were some frames that couldn't have Primes. I guess we definitely have the answer now, they can because they just want to.

[Hypernaut1]

Why do we have blueprints for tortured Valky anyway?

[Akavakaku]

4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Why do we have blueprints for tortured Valky anyway?

Presumably, Alad rediscovered Valkyr before the other Tenno did.

[Floppinger]

The whole Valkyr thing is kinda nebulous anyways. At least to me.

On the wiki page it says that the Valkyr, that was captured by Alad V was deconstructed and used to build Zanuka and that we obtained the blueprints to make a new one. Yet our Valkyr comes with broken restraints, psycological scarring and everything, like she busted out. Now the psycological side could be explained by using the same tormented "conscience" or whatever is inside a warframe, salvaged from the destroyed Zanuka or something like that. Maybe I´m missing something, idk.

On the Gersemi form, it says that that was the form before Alad V´s experimentations, but it doesn´t say that it was her original form. No idea if the extra bits on Valkyr P are supposed to be restraints, but if they are, maybe the original Valkyr was on the wilder side aswell and the Orokin restrained her when not on a mission (and later created the more controllable Gersemi version?). All obviously speculation, but the best I could come up with, with my limited warframe lore knowledge.

 

 

[TotallyLagging]

9 hours ago, armedpoop said:

Honestly its pretty funny. Doesnt this just kind of prove the fact that prime variants just have stuff attached to the base model? I mean thats fine in most cases, but this just seems lazy to me. Why even tout the Gersemi skin as "pre corpus experimentation" if this is how her prime looks? Why even have the "lore" exist behind Gersemi or Primes being the "original orokin versions"? Just doesnt make any sense to me, we are grasping for lore here and they dont even seem to respect the lore they create. I just dont get it. 

Prime models are pretty much that. It's why you can still use Immortal Skins on Prime frames. It's also why TennoGen skins are usable on Primes but always have problems that DE doesn't intend to fix anytime soon *cough* Nova's breastplate and stupid neckrings *cough*.

And yeah, the blocks are a little silly when you think of it. Why not remove them and create a new model for normal Valkyr's arms? I hate that bloody block. You get this slender curvy frame and then there's this silly, blocky Corpus restraint that she decided to keep because... I don't know. It's dumb. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by TotallyLagging