Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[arch111]

1 hour ago, Littleman88 said:

The Gersemi skin is more of a "rebuild" than it is a representation of the original, regardless of what the hell it's flavor text might say.  The helmets between base Valkyr and Gersemi only share their color, as base has a more floral petal thing going on, while Gersemi is more of a single solid piece with flanking "ears/wings."  Hard for me to believe any artist worth their salt would totally ignore the art design of the original in creating the "historically original" design.  Further, the arms are of different proportions, with the Gersemi arms being the thinner between the two skins (thin enough to suggest they're prosthetic limbs.)  She's still angry, surprised so many people actually let that one go.

Basically, Gersemi was a very loosely realized "original form" of Valkyr to begin with.  It basically adopted most of her silhouette, but the actual design fails to imitate the few reference points already available on the default Valkyr skin.

 

Finally, primes have always followed the design of the originals, lore be damned.  Do you really think we find Warframe parts just lying around and reassemble them?  Hell, The War Within...

  Reveal hidden contents

Suggested that maybe we only have ONE warframe to a Tenno.  At least, that's what I got from it.

 

I happen  to think the Prime should be an extention of the Gersemi more than the experiment. I have allways thought so ever since I understood that Zanuka is made from several warframes.

We never got a helmet that was whole for Valkyr,  only the ugly half one.

That one, in light of this Prime, should be corpus. It makes the most sense. Alad ripped off the helmet,  exposing the sublayer of optics and sensors and biotechnological flesh.

He then crafts a replacement helmet,  but only fits one half to study it better. The Gersemi he repurposed for Zanuka.

DE really should release lore to shut us up. Or just straight up tell us how it all work.

[PsiWarp]

Yes, it looks like they based Valkyr Prime off of Valkyr's default model and built upon it. Lorewise it looks very distinct from Gersemi, the original mass-produced Valkyr Warframe, which did not possess the arm restraints that Alad V added during his experiments (resulting in post-Corpus Valkyr).

But, as this is their depiction of her Prime, whose to say she didn't originally possess the Orokin arm restraints? Alad V could have based his experiments around a Valkyr Prime blueprint for all we know.

Edited November 18, 2016 by PsiWarp

[Stoner]

18 minutes ago, SocknBoppers said:

Except that lore also hints that Primes are among the first, so how could Gersemi be the first? I'd rather see the Gersemi be the results of the Orokin needing more Valkyr without the use of constraints or torture.

But orokin era is before the torture of Valkyr, isn't it? Sorry about that Gersemi>Valkyr prime stuff, this is stuff that works in my head that i sometime write and i doesn't make sense. What i meant is the prime should in theory be based on Gersemi. Well anything but the tortured Valkyr to be honest. 

[Rhundis]

52 minutes ago, N44rivana said:

So as a lot of you already know, the Valkyr Prime model got "leaked," and most of you have already seen it from the latest Devstream. But the first thing that caught my eye when I first saw her model were the giant box-like forearm things that are on the regular Valkyr as well. The thing with those is that the Gersemi deluxe skin for Valkyr doesn't have them and as you guys know, the Gersemi skin is the original form of Valkyr before Alad V and the Zanuka project. That means that Valkyr Prime should represent Gersemi Valkyr not the post Zanuka project Valkyr. I do not know if I have missed some facts about Valkyr's lore, but if I do understand it correctly, then I hope they'll change her model to look more like the Gersemi Valkyr.

Did anyone try to think that Alad V was actually trying to re-create her Prime form but couldn't due to current tech limitations?

[Callback]

"These Corpus remind me of the Orokin: selfish, greedy."

 

Who is to say those restraints aren't originally of Orokin design?  That they were the ones to contain Valkyr Prime originally, and Alad may have studied their restraints to figure out how to contain and combat the Gersemi?

 

(Please tell me if I typo next time, I let 2 people quote me before fixing it.)

Edited November 19, 2016 by Callback

[Lost_Cartographer]

9 minutes ago, arch111 said:

I happen  to think the Prime should be an extention of the Gersemi more than the experiment. I have allways thought so ever since I understood that Zanuka is made from several warframes.

We never got a helmet that was whole for Valkyr,  only the ugly half one.

That one, in light of this Prime, should be corpus. It makes the most sense. Alad ripped off the helmet,  exposing the sublayer of optics and sensors and biotechnological flesh.

He then crafts a replacement helmet,  but only fits one half to study it better. The Gersemi he repurposed for Zanuka.

DE really should release lore to shut us up. Or just straight up tell us how it all work.

Alad didn't recreate the helmet and tack HALF a new one on, he ripped off half the helmet.  The only additions we can call out as Corpus in origin are all the little white diodes jutting out of her "flesh" at intervals and the wrist bonds.  The helmet very coincidentally shares its color with the Gersemi skin, suggesting at the very least that I'm right about her half helmet being part of her original armor.

Far as I'm concerned, Gersemi =/= old Valkyr until DE's artists can maintain consistency between designs.  They can't get Gersemi's helmet to look like the complete iteration of default Valkyr's half helmet, nor are the arms thick enough to suggest default valkyr would even fit into the Gersemi armor.  Actually, default overall is more filled out than the Gersemi skin.

So really, it comes as no surprise that they stuck with the default as a base for the Prime model.  They probably couldn't make something that looked reminiscent of the Gersemi model if they tried.  And thank goodness for that - Gersemi has flat boards for arms.  She looks more like a complex Corpus MOA than a Warframe.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Littleman88

[(PSN)Silverback73]

19 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Now you guys are building up your own lore at this point. This is not the point of this thread and i cant keep up with all the answers. Let me just say this...

Valkyr's lore states she was tortured by Alad V(corpus) which resulted on what we have now, the default Valkyr skin. The descritption on the Gersemi skin also states before Alad V experiments, there was Gersemi. So it's safe to assume Gersemi WAS the pre-torture/corpus Valkyr. And if the orokin ie Primes was before all that stuff, then that makes no sense having a Valkyr prime based on her tortured form, which is AFTER Gersemi. 

Just putting that here. DE made a mistake... And as a Valkyr die hard player i feel extremely triggered. This is not right.

 

You must always take into account the economic and technological constraints with games.

It's happening with Riven Mods right now; players aren't considering how DE intends to use them to generate revenue to help keep WF alive and retain end-gamers.

Obviously the business model for Valk Prime dictated a time-sensitive, ease-of-implementation approach for the holidays.

To redo Gersemi skin as a Prime probably involves a cumulative time, difficulty, and investment multiplier of 2/5/10...not feasible.

Retconning/head cannon is easy btw:  Alad obviously found some semblance of the Prime genetic footprint and turned those symbols of power into shackles.

I personally think the industrial Immortal skin Valkyr DESTROYS the "Gersemi-Leather-kitty-dominatrix-Ballgag" Deluxe skin and is at least on par with the prime.

Edited November 18, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Daakru]

Just now, Callback said:

"These Corpus remind me of the Orikin: selfish, greedy."

 

Who is to say those restraints aren't originally of Orokin design?  That Alad would have studied them to replicate their ability to contain her.

This is one of the first lore explanations that actually makes sense in this topic as to the inclusion of the restraints in the Primed version.

Edited November 18, 2016 by s0tenikk

[S0ulCal1ber]

15 minutes ago, Casardis said:

That's the opposite of what lore does. Lore is not here only to explain, but to expand as well. By having a solid lore, the author/creator can choose what to show and what information to leave in the dark (even if they exist) so interpretation can be made. However, due to a well-written lore, they can weave the information in a way that allows for theories that don't sound far-fetched, thanks to the depth of the lore. That's why games like Dark Souls have such highly-praised and often-discussed lore, and how people still think not everything has been found yet.

The creator of those games said themselves they don't want all answers to be given, but the way they've presented the ones we have access to sure is enough to convince us that they do have more under their sleeves. You said that they will run out of ideas if they have lore for everything, leaving them with nothing to build on, but a house built on a weak foundation will only crumble quicker. It's only with a solid foundation that you can make a story which can expand beyond its popular presentation.

To sum it up, lore allows for more possibilities that make sense, prevents plot holes and retcons (both of which usually equal to bad writing), and therefore more involvement and attention from the community by making a solid foundation for new ideas, instead of making us grasp at thin straws or talk about how something doesn't make sense (not to mention DE responding with incertitude themselves, showing possible lack of further thoughts on their choices).

 

I can see where you're coming from. It does entirely depend on how well written and presented the lore is, but games like warframe has room for error and multiple possibilities.

you could per say (for example) add umbra now due to the balance of day/night.. add whole new warframe type as well fallen and ascended depending on what your balance is after the TWW. you sway more to the dark side you get umbra first sway more to light side and you gain ascended( like an over flow of suppressed feelings causing you take a new form due to the void) umbra because you as an operator chose to give into the past causing said frame to gain evil emotion. (im not very great with story as you can tell).

plus adding the odd out of place character aint all that bad as long as it is not done everytime... ( should have said this in my previous post)   

Edit: I know you're not attacking. we can argue and discuss in civil ways ^^

Edited November 18, 2016 by S0ulCal1ber

[Apoc001]

8 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

But orokin era is before the torture of Valkyr, isn't it? Sorry about that Gersemi>Valkyr prime stuff, this is stuff that works in my head that i sometime write and i doesn't make sense. What i meant is the prime should in theory be based on Gersemi. Well anything but the tortured Valkyr to be honest. 

let me ask you this then:

based on your understanding of Valkyr, her gersemi is the "original" form, that her prime should be based off of, but that would also mean that her scarred form should too be based on, after all her prime is simply adding on orokin parts, and her scarred should simply be a stripped down version of the gersemi

so why is it that the one intact half of her scarred head looks nothing like one half of her gersemi, or how about why is it that her leg structure between the two forms is different, why are her claws different, etc

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Apoc001

[Stoner]

3 minutes ago, Callback said:

"These Corpus remind me of the Orikin: selfish, greedy."

 

Who is to say those restraints aren't originally of Orokin design?  That they were the ones to contain Valkyr Prime originally, and Alad may have studied their restraints to figure out how to contain and combat the Gersemi?

That's lore we don't know and people are making up. The corpus bits she has on her default looks robotic and not orokin. The corpus obviously tried to "open" her to see what was inside. Look at her back, her helmet and stuff. You can even see "blood" on certain spots of her skin. 

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

let me ask you this then:

based on your understanding of Valkyr, her gersemi is the "original" form, that her prime should be based off of, but that would also mean that her scarred form should too be based on, after all her prime is simply adding on orokin parts, and her scarred should simply be a stripped down version of the gersemi

so why is it that the one intact half of her scarred head looks nothing like one half of her gersemi, or how about why is it that her leg structure between the two forms is different, why are her claws different, etc

 

Because DE? Just take the recent warframe designs and compare them to the old ones. I'm pretty sure if they had to remake Valkyr, she would be a lot different. Same with all the older warframes. And i was also not happy when i saw the Gersemi skin, because it didn't look like her base skin.. at all. But the description says it is her before the torture. 

[Chaosms]

This may not become a problem to many but it would drive me up a wall. And its simple, really. Valkyrie Prime; tail or no tail? Okay here me out before you throw your tomatoes. Valkyr was a warframe that had her skin stripped off by Alad V and used to make Zanuka. And when her skin was stripped she lost her tail, obviously. How do we know she has a tail in the first place?  The Gersemi Valkyr skin which shows what Valkyr looked like before she was taken by Alad V. Emphasis on BEFORE. So logically, the primed version of Valkyr not only should have her skin intact, but the tail as well. And if she doesn't have her tail? Well, this would, in my eyes, cause problems for the game's lore!

.....Okay maybe not to that extent but still it would be a major pet peeve and continuity errors and all that good nonsense, blah blah blah.

TL;DR: DE give Valkyr Prime a tail pls.

[KairaSilvermist]

1 hour ago, N44rivana said:

the Gersemi skin is the original form of Valkyr before Alad V and the Zanuka project. That means that Valkyr Prime should represent Gersemi Valkyr not the post Zanuka project Valkyr.

Keep in mind that Lore-wise, nova was designed by the Tenno, not based on an ancient Prime Variant. theoretically, Nova prime should not exist either. Lore-Wise, it would mean that Nova prime was based on another ancient design, but modified to be easier to make. Perhaps Valkyr Prime is the same thing.

[AcceI]

Honestly, it looks like DE modeled Valkyr prime after the regular tortured valkyr with the kitty helm alt.

[Apoc001]

1 minute ago, Stoner74 said:

 But the description says it is her before the torture. 

it is but ONE of her original forms, it is not exclusively her original form

if you pieced back together her scarred form, it would look nothing like gersemi, therefore you can only conclude that there are other forms of Valkyr

[Stoner]

3 minutes ago, Mewfan said:

Keep in mind that Lore-wise, nova was designed by the Tenno, not based on an ancient Prime Variant. theoretically, Nova prime should not exist either. Lore-Wise, it would mean that Nova prime was based on another ancient design, but modified to be easier to make. Perhaps Valkyr Prime is the same thing.

That was a pure misinterpretation between DE and the player base. Nova was made by the Orokin council.

[Stoner]

9 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

it is but ONE of her original forms, it is not exclusively her original form

if you pieced back together her scarred form, it would look nothing like gersemi, therefore you can only conclude that there are other forms of Valkyr

And? I'm not 100% sure where you're going with this. How is this even related to my original post? Valkyr prime SHOULDN'T be based off her default skin. That's it. Nothing more to argue about. Orokin=before tortured valkyr, which means no corpus bits, no bond, nothing. Her being tortured was after the orokin, and having a prime based off of that makes no sense. 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Stoner74

[Apoc001]

3 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

And? I'm not 100% sure where you're going with this. How is this even related to my original post? Valkyr prime SHOULDN'T be based off her default skin. That's it. Nothing more to argue about. Orokin=before tortured valkyr, which means no corpus bits, no bond, nothing. Her being tortured was after the orokin, and having a prime based off of that makes no sense. 

because her tortured form is the original form derived from the prime, captured, stripped down, resulting in the base Valkyr that we have

gersemi is an alternative form to the base form that was derived from the prime, both of her forms are original when compared to her scarred form, both of them existed "before Alad V", so it wouldn't contradict the description for her skin

 

[Neptlude]

Maybe when we get the valky trailer it will explain it. Either way I want her O 3 o

[(PSN)IIISuPeRy0III]

1 hour ago, Stoner74 said:

When she got leaked in the game, i looked at her model and told myself "Is she based on her default skin?!", i then proceeded to ignore it because of how i hate being spoiled. Earlier this week, one of my clan mate showed me the prime bond accessory leak. And i freaked out.

Even worst, today while watching the devstream, i saw this:

Corpus prime? How can that be?

I hope i'm not the only one that is very annoyed with the Valkyr prime design. How can her corpus bits on her default skin be primed?? That doesn't make any sense. 

This is a mistake, please DE, redo the Valkyr prime model and do it right. I did not wait 2.5 years for this stuff. 

 

Edit: I'm talking about the corpus bits on her arms, as well as the prime bond. Sorry for the confusion.

Lol u don't know anything about lore

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I'm totally expecting DE deciding that Gersemi is the original Valkyr, Valkyr Prime is the product of Orokin experiments and torture, and base Valkyr is Alad V following/tracing Orokin experimentation into his own almagamized vision of Zanuka and Valkyr is now.

In the end, DE's got  on their plate with the lore, and they'll have the final say without any influence from the lore junkies in our community, sad it may be.

[Stoner]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)IIISuPeRy0III said:

Lol u don't know anything about lore

I'm sorry, did you even read my post? Please elaborate. 

[Stoner]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

I'm totally expecting DE deciding that Gersemi is the original Valkyr, Valkyr Prime is the product of Orokin experiments and torture, and base Valkyr is Alad V following/tracing Orokin experimentation into his own almagamized vision of Zanuka and Valkyr is now.

In the end, DE's got  on their plate with the lore, and they'll have the final say without any influence from the lore junkies in our community, sad it may be.

And that's 100% wrong and we should not stay there just taking it. And yeah they'll probably make something up to hide this lore problem, to hide the mistake they have made.

...When even the company doesn't care about lore... sigh thats pretty sad.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Stoner74

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

...I just noticed her Penguin flipper toes just now...

Can't unsee.

QuentinTarantinoApproves/10.