Ash Changes

[Toquette]

20 hours ago, Awazx said:

Warframe is not a tactical game.

40 keks

[SenariousNex]

My suggestion was make Ash Ult same as McCree Ult in Overwatch, but with teleportation, this is close enough XD. No more cheese-master Ash. Back to mirage + simulor everyone.

[Borg1611]

If the targeting were Mesa style gigantic crosshairs so you can easily mark an entire group fast, people would still use it, through being vulnerable for longer without Mesa's defenses may not be great. Perhaps a buff to his stealth is in order now? He's squishy. 

If you have to individually mark each target with normal crosshairs, not many people will use bladestorm anymore. People will still play ash for fatal teleport, but not bladestorm. 

Too anyone who thinks bladestorm needs individual targeting, would you also like to see that happen to every other major wide area AoE in the game? Because there's A LOT OF THEM. Frost, NYX, Nova, Vauban, Banshee, Saryn, Rhino, EMBER, etc. Why can so many frames have a massive AoE radius ability without having to target specific mobs, but Ash is the one we have to throw a flag and say NOPE!! you have to target them individually first even though that doesn't mesh with the entire rest of the game!

Also, wasn't the point of re-working bladestorm so you could still interact DURING bladestorm? Or cancel it? Who cares if you have to target things before going into it? The re-work could have been to just have clones teleporting around while he still maintained control of himself, maybe a nerf to only mark things in line of sight or something. The changes sound all negative without a positive, but I guess we'll see how it turns out soon. Hopefully there's an easy way to rapidly target large groups so it can remain relevant. 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, SenariousNex said:

My suggestion was make Ash Ult same as McCree Ult in Overwatch, but with teleportation, this is close enough XD. No more cheese-master Ash. Back to mirage + simulor everyone.

Cue the next update:

Mirage has 4 clones again! But clones don't make ANY AoE, be simulor, tonkor, ignis or Telos Boltace slide!

[SonicSonedit]

This is a minor nerf to ult that ignores armor, deals tons of damage, makes you invincible AND you can regen energy while it's active.

It's funny how community asked for undeserved Valkyr nerf but pleds not to nerf most popular frame when his ult is just broken. Double standards as they are.

[KaizergidorahXi]

Honestly I'm tired of Ash nuking entire maps with a single button press, so the change is fine with me.

[2old4gamez]

Did I miss the part where the Ash rework has been implemented, or this is this yet another thread full of people arguing about something they haven't tried yet?

[SenariousNex]

19 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Cue the next update:

Mirage has 4 clones again! But clones don't make ANY AoE, be simulor, tonkor, ignis or Telos Boltace slide!

Noo.. not my boltace, how else am I supposed to blind the F*** out of my teammates as they yell maniacly at me in all caps?

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, 2old4gamez said:

Did I miss the part where the Ash rework has been implemented, or this is this yet another thread full of people arguing about something they haven't tried yet?

the second. Though it was supposed to deliver today, so maybe in a couple of hours threads crying about nerfs will pop up like godam locusts.

[Cubewano]

I'm surprised nobody is mentioning the corpse removal after his ultimate as well, which makes Ash very incompatible with Nekros for little to no benefit. 

[Fast_98]

1 hour ago, SonicSonedit said:

This is a minor nerf to ult that ignores armor, deals tons of damage, makes you invincible AND you can regen energy while it's active.

It's funny how community asked for undeserved Valkyr nerf but pleds not to nerf most popular frame when his ult is just broken. Double standards as they are.

What good is an ultimate that ignores armour when it single target and need a a small reticle to pass on the target.

He is damage dealing frame why wouldn't he deal a S#&$ ton of damage? 

He is invincible in his ultimate because it locks you in for like 20 sec. Ash would be insta killed if not for the invisibility. Plus for all we know the new ult might have removed it so making ash stop and do his bladestorm at high levels could be a death wish.

He doesn't regain any energy when bladestorming it just carrier holding onto it until the animation is done and his ability isn't a exalted weapon?

So valkyr being the second most broken frame doesn't deserve change? You kidding me I have no forma on my vanilla valkyr and could stay in hysteria  (which is true invincibility) for hours. The forums had wanted poster out for her, mirage, Ash and trinity head since forever so where this double standard?

Ash deserves a proper rework to all his ability and a ultimate that require work for results not the current cheese it is and the purposed one is pretty lame.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Fast_98

[Ziden_]

I'm going to hold my judgment on the ash changes until I use them.  I love playing ash, and I love his entire kit.  There are some aspects of bladestorm that I don't like, for instance, the inability to cancel out of it once I start.  Furthermore, bladestorming onto enemies and getting stuck on targets (like a juggernaut) when i could've cleared the area of additional mobs to make fighting a juggernaut easier.  For instances like this, the new system could be very useful.  

Furthermore in teamplay, it may allow ash to help support his team by taking out targets of interest rather than random targets in an AoE.  e.g. I want to kill the things attacking the extractor, not the things outside of the frost bubble.

I think it's too soon to place judgment on the change.  I'll play with it first and see what I think.  It seems like it may make for a more dynamic playstyle and require some positioning to target particular mobs properly.

[Tizodd]

Sorry, but currently Bladestorm is mind-numbingly boring and not interactive.  Pretty much the last press-4-to-win ability.

I'm happy it's getting a rework.

[SonicSonedit]

2 hours ago, Fast_98 said:

What good is an ultimate that ignores armour when it single target and need a a small reticle to pass on the target.

He is damage dealing frame why wouldn't he deal a S#&$ ton of damage? 

He is invincible in his ultimate because it locks you in for like 20 sec. Ash would be insta killed if not for the invisibility. Plus for all we know the new ult might have removed it so making ash stop and do his bladestorm at high levels could be a death wish.

He doesn't regain any energy when bladestorming it just carrier holding onto it until the animation is done and his ability isn't a exalted weapon?

So valkyr being the second most broken frame doesn't deserve change? You kidding me I have no forma on my vanilla valkyr and could stay in hysteria  (which is true invincibility) for hours. The forums had wanted poster out for her, mirage, Ash and trinity head since forever so where this double standard?

Ash deserves a proper rework to all his ability and a ultimate that require work for results not the current cheese it is and the purposed one is pretty lame.

Valkyr can't use any range attack or AOE, so what's the difference from being locked in melee or animation? The only good thing was that she could revive downed teammates.

And so just you know - Ash can regen energy from EV and therefore can ult non-stop.

Currently Ash is just a ranged version of pre-nerf Valkyr, who can also regen energy from EV while being invincible. Also it's invincible, not invisible.

[Fast_98]

17 minutes ago, SonicSonedit said:

Valkyr can't use any range attack or AOE, so what's the difference from being locked in melee or animation? The only good thing was that she could revive downed teammates.

And so just you know - Ash can regen energy from EV and therefore can ult non-stop.

Currently Ash is just a ranged version of pre-nerf Valkyr, who can also regen energy from EV while being invincible. Also it's invincible, not invisible.

Valkyr is an invincible frame. You literally just have to run toward an enemy and press e or corner them in a tight hallway (a lot of maps have these ) and slide attack killing them instantly. So saying that ash is invincible because of an ultimate that locks you in place is dumb. Like how is it useful if the gunner next to the bladestorm target can shoot you down in mid animation?

All non exalted warframe get energy from ev trinity... how is that an advantage for ash? I can take any frame with an aoe ability and spam with a trin even valkyr can, just get out of hysteria for a sec get ev energy and go for a killing spree. 

Again I said ash is damage frame. He should kill but not with the brain dead p4w and not with the new hold 4 to win, what ash need is a full proper rework and not this.

Plus tell me how many times have you seen a trinity constantly ev for ash? Mostly only in pre-built teams and not pubs.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Fast_98

[Doom_Bunny]

1 hour ago, Tizodd said:

Sorry, but currently Bladestorm is mind-numbingly boring and not interactive.  Pretty much the last press-4-to-win ability.

I'm happy it's getting a rework.

Do you think pressing four, vigorously moving your mouse (before the enemies die) then entering the same camera mode as before, is any more fun or interactive?

Also; Ember, Equinox.

Quote

We decided to rework Bladestorm after almost a full year of the same themed feedback showing up. We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting. We have been increasingly committed to participatory powers (especially ultimates) and focused on emphasizing that for Bladestorm.

I love playing Ash but since people started using him just to spam four he became a nuisance. If this quote was DE's goal then on paper it appears they've not achieved that goal. All that appears to of happened is a nerf to it's activation to stop people from spamming. However I doubt people will be able to execute the ability outside of solo and there are no mentions of a rework to the camera mode; the one part of his ability that is the most non-interactive is not changing (as far as we can tell).

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Postal_pat

[StabbyTentacles]

On 11/24/2016 at 9:40 AM, PoisonHD said:

A lot changes... one of the main complaint is that Ash isn't interactive at all, not the wait time. Its the fact that he auto marks entire rooms with no effort, which I explained earlier....

True, but there are many options here, I'd rather to have fuller control over Ash rather than have to 'tab'enemies, instead of enemy. I'd rather Bladestorm to be more a storm you control, a touch/in a limited way, like Excalibur's Slash Dash, only far more powerful. You could clear swaths of enemies, using the right use of terrain and opportunity.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

In my opinion, this rework will make Ash useless, and specially with high level missions surrounded by dozens of enemies,

If they wanted to fix the fact that Ash it spamming BS and killing enemies that he does not see, they could have reduced the targeted enemies from 18 to 8 or 9 or even 5,

and mark my word, now all Ash players will spam the synoid, so what next? you will nerf the weapon too?

Jesus DE.... i don't really understand sometimes what's going on inside the head of your Dev (with all my respect to their effort in making this game better).

[Awazx]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

In my opinion, this rework will make Ash useless, and specially with high level missions surrounded by dozens of enemies,

This ^

[SonicSonedit]

9 hours ago, Fast_98 said:

Valkyr is an invincible frame. You literally just have to run toward an enemy and press e or corner them in a tight hallway (a lot of maps have these ) and slide attack killing them instantly. So saying that ash is invincible because of an ultimate that locks you in place is dumb. Like how is it useful if the gunner next to the bladestorm target can shoot you down in mid animation?

All non exalted warframe get energy from ev trinity... how is that an advantage for ash? I can take any frame with an aoe ability and spam with a trin even valkyr can, just get out of hysteria for a sec get ev energy and go for a killing spree. 

Again I said ash is damage frame. He should kill but not with the brain dead p4w and not with the new hold 4 to win, what ash need is a full proper rework and not this.

Plus tell me how many times have you seen a trinity constantly ev for ash? Mostly only in pre-built teams and not pubs.

 

 

10/10 fanboy logic that can be applied to anything:

Ash is invincible frame. You literally just have to press 4 on enemy in any place and kill them instantly. So saying that Valkyr is invincible because of ultimate that locks you in melee is dumb like how it usefull is the  gunnner next to bladestorm target can shoot down in mid animation?

Bonus points for killing opponent dumb when he pointed out obvius flaws. Keep on.

[StabbyTentacles]

Ash is invincible?

Mine osprey, anybody, anybody?

 

[Fast_98]

10 minutes ago, SonicSonedit said:

10/10 fanboy logic that can be applied to anything:

Ash is invincible frame. You literally just have to press 4 on enemy in any place and kill them instantly. So saying that Valkyr is invincible because of ultimate that locks you in melee is dumb like how it usefull is the  gunnner next to bladestorm target can shoot down in mid animation?

Bonus points for killing opponent dumb when he pointed out obvius flaws. Keep on.

Fanboy logic? Nice so you couldn't crack any of my topics so you resort to name calling. Check my ingame profile if you want I mostly run a CC frost. PLUS Mr. Genius where the F*** did I say that Ash didn't deserve change? Ash ultimate is a damage dealing one and so is Valkyr and they both kill level 100 because it their job to KILL but both are equally cheesy and it should be fixed, go check every reply I made, all state that Ash cheese abilities should be removed and replace with something that requires effort but DE fix does nothing because it tap 4 and tap it again to win.

Honestly I've calmly been talking to you without any indications of being rude and have explained the flaws behind you're facts but all you are saying is that  I am wrong and that ash is invincible when he clearly not. Ash can kill level 100 enimes but you're locked in place and you can't help any of your teammates or do anything till the animation is done so -1 for team play (DE should fix this) plus his damage eventually falls off at higher levels and CC begins to rule (shocker) with the fact that bladestorm  chooses random (bombards or powefist could be either ) and that even throughout it can kill 18 enimes it is very easy to croweded at high levels. Again I will say it again even with these downsides ash is cheesy and needs a total rework but you're wrong about him being invincible.

Now with you're amazing point that he has the advantage of being invincible in blade storm (animation lock) I want you to spawn 100 enemies and stand still in front of them for 15-20 sec (time for ash bladestorm animation) and tell me if you live (short answer: death). YOU were defend Valkyr hysteria which allow true immortality and allow full interaction with environment which includes helping teammates, choosing the target and killing without a worry.

Face it if you're going to call me a fanboy then you are no less of one. Plus I can agree with you, both of their ultimates should be scrapped and reworked from the bottom up.

 

[Awazx]

12 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

Jesus DE.... i don't really understand sometimes what's going on inside the head of your Dev (with all my respect to their effort in making this game better).

Now... this.

[ObviousLee]

"Oh no! Now I have to actually do things instead of mindlessly spamming 4! ohhhhhhhhhh no! I have to use his entire kit! DE ObviousLee doesn't know what good  game balance is because my instagib was altered!" 

Smh. 

Considering all you need is any Dagger and covert lethality his ultimate ohk's everything, yea its been broken. This is a very satisfactory change for me, and gives me a reason to pick him back up.  

[Awazx]

1 minute ago, ObviousLee said:

"Oh no! Now I have to actually do things instead of mindlessly spamming 4! ohhhhhhhhhh no!

Do not be an *****. I do not mind 'working'. The new mechanic is slow, tedious and impractical. That does bother me.