Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

I'm kind of sad. I've pretty much stopped playing Warframe because I feel so jipped.

I feel sad for ye. Hopefully DE will do the right thing to bring you back.

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

I can understand DE wanting to keep this current system.

Despite been told many times that it's the current system what created most of the issues.

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

I'm just so sad DE. What happened to your vision? Your goals of wanting to make Warframe abilities synergize with each other? None of that can be seen with Ash. Hell, Shuriken was practically untouched if you ignore it's punch through. Why Shuriken when you can Teleport and use a finisher? Or just... single Target blade storm if that's your cup of tea? WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE OF THIS SKILL IN ANY KIND OF MID TIER PLAY!? If you need the argument that the augment for this skill makes it amazing then I'll argue back that the augment for teleport is even better as a "damage dealer".

Simple, they were dedicating all their time and resources to making Nidus super awesome, and they didn't want to nerf Ash but probably got sick of nerf threads (meanwhile, the much more obnoxious Miramulor still runs rampant). They just chose to do it in an elegant manner, which clearly didn't fool anyone.

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

Nidus is a perfect example of what you guys are actually capable of! Even the recent look-at of Limbo looks surprisingly nice

Which only serves to highlight how lazy Ash revisit was.

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

I know you guys have creativity to spare

By this point they don't need creativity to fix ash, just pay attention to actual feedback from actual ash players.

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

It almost feels like this entire fraction of the community is being ignored.

It doesn't feel like we are being ignored, we ARE being ignored.

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

The Ash community has put up so much feedback, and suggestions in such a lengthy time-span, and none of it was even glossed over? Heck maybe it wasn't glossed over. Maybe you guys DID read through it all and just found it insufficient for what your vision had. But then I dare ask... what was that vision? What is the end goal here?

There were lot of suggestions to fix Ash, sure some were very creative and very difficult from a programming and design perspective, but there were also other suggestions that pretty much recycled already existing game assets in new and good ways. DE's vision and endgoal was "let's nerf this warframe and label it 'revisit', surely nobody will notice with a deluxe skin coming out with it"

3 hours ago, Shuuro said:

I could probably keep on going, rant endlessly about this, but I'm tired.

I am tired, and I am quite bitter and disappointed.

No, this isn't a "omg he thinks he's entitled to things because he's a founder". No. THIS, is me knowing that the Devs are capable of making amazing feats that I've seen no where else, and then they decided to, what seems to me, just "not". That's it. Just "not".

Ash is not Blade Storm.

Blade Storm is not Ash.

Please, from a long time player who knows that you devs are absolutely amazing at what you can do. I ask of you this.

Please re-think what you've done with the Ash "rework", or "revamp" or whatever it's called, and please. Give it some "proper" adjustments.

Thank you for your time for reading this rant of a tired Tenno.

[Somethinglurks]

On 3/3/2017 at 11:43 PM, Shuuro said:

 

Ash is not Blade Storm.

Blade Storm is not Ash.

Please, from a long time player who knows that you devs are absolutely amazing at what you can do. I ask of you this.

Please re-think what you've done with the Ash "rework", or "revamp" or whatever it's called, and please. Give it some "proper" adjustments.

Thank you for your time for reading this rant of a tired Tenno.

YES, this right here.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Rising Storm augment needs a complete second look too since after the introduction of body count and then drifting contact...

make it improve the slash procs dmg of bladestorm or a faster execution speed or reduce the energy per mark or insta mark for the 1st one on everthing in sight to make the marking faster or whatever, any suggestion is welcome at this point since that augment is pretty much useless

Edited March 6, 2017 by arm4geddon-117

[Nazrethim]

8 hours ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

Rising Storm augment needs a complete second look too since after the introduction of body count and then drifting contact...

make it improve the slash procs dmg of bladestorm or a faster execution speed or reduce the energy per mark or insta mark for the 1st one on everthing in sight to make the marking faster or whatever, any suggestion is welcome at this point since that augment is pretty much useless

It was good pre-revisit, as it did affect Body Count, meaning your 15s (base+BC) doubled to 30s, but DE for some unexplained reason "fixed" this. I think it would be cool if, for each attack Ash himself makes with bladestorm, 5 (1 base+4 the augment) attacks are added to the combo counter instead of 1

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

that would be also good ^^

[Omni.Knight]

R.I.P Bladestorm

confuse marking target 

[Asdryu]

Idk if this is still being watched but, here we go:

-When Bladestorm is toggled, every enemy that is on your radar's range will be highlighted even behind repairs (except Nullifiers :/ Gotta be fair). This will also synergize with Banshee's Sonar and give mods such as Enemy Sense shine. To not make this weird, you can only target enemies in the same room. Targetable targets will have a colored aura much like as when Ash has bladestorm active. Colors:
-Green: Enemy that is targettable and without covers
-Red: Enemy behind covers
-Gray: Enemy behind covers that cannot be targeted at the moment because of a closed door.

(I'm not even mentioning the clones since it's obvious that we would love to see the cinematic- go grab pop corns gone for good)

Edited March 8, 2017 by RyuGold

[Nagisawa]

You know...  It would be nice if say 'Teleport' worked like a one move BladeStorm.  You hit 3 and you tele-stab a mob.  And you keep doing that as long as targets are in 'sight' or in a certain range.  And that became BladeStorm.  It's interactive, it gets to keep the animations to a certain degree...

Oh well.

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, Nagisawa said:

You know...  It would be nice if say 'Teleport' worked like a one move BladeStorm.  You hit 3 and you tele-stab a mob.  And you keep doing that as long as targets are in 'sight' or in a certain range.  And that became BladeStorm.  It's interactive, it gets to keep the animations to a certain degree...

Oh well.

What if:

Ash passive makes him Mark enemies when you hold RMB (aim, block, glide, latch) for about 5 seconds.

Shuriken no longer tracks enemies and shoots a single very powerful shuriken flying in straight line with 3 punch trough.

Teleport teleports you to the location you are aiming and opening enemies in 2m radius to finisher attacks.

Then add both Teleport and Shuriken a Hold function.

Holding Shuriken for 1s makes Ash throw lesser shurikens to all marked targets.

Holding Teleport plays current Blade Storm by making Ash teleport from enemy to enemy using his melee weapon

 

And then make Blade Storm a Stance ultimate focusing on combos, finisher attacks and agility.

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

What if:

Ash passive makes him Mark enemies when you hold RMB (aim, block, glide, latch) for about 5 seconds.

Shuriken no longer tracks enemies and shoots a single very powerful shuriken flying in straight line with 3 punch trough.

Teleport teleports you to the location you are aiming and opening enemies in 2m radius to finisher attacks.

Then add both Teleport and Shuriken a Hold function.

Holding Shuriken for 1s makes Ash throw lesser shurikens to all marked targets.

Holding Teleport plays current Blade Storm by making Ash teleport from enemy to enemy using his melee weapon

 

And then make Blade Storm a Stance ultimate focusing on combos, finisher attacks and agility.

This is perfect. It works for everyone. He gets some good synergy, an awesome and very useful passive which encourages tactical usage of Park our 2.0, everyone that likes the current cinematic of BS gets to still keep it, and everyone that wants an Exalted Stance gets one. Alas, I don't see DE even considering giving Ash such a rework for at least another year or two. The "he's a press4towin 'frame" complainers have been silenced, and that seems to be all they were ever concerned with. 

[Somethinglurks]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ShuhanX said:

 Alas, I don't see DE even considering giving Ash such a rework for at least another year or two. The "he's a press4towin 'frame" complainers have been silenced, and that seems to be all they were ever concerned with. 

Sad but true.

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ShuhanX said:

This is perfect. It works for everyone. He gets some good synergy, an awesome and very useful passive which encourages tactical usage of Park our 2.0, everyone that likes the current cinematic of BS gets to still keep it, and everyone that wants an Exalted Stance gets one. Alas, I don't see DE even considering giving Ash such a rework for at least another year or two. The "he's a press4towin 'frame" complainers have been silenced, and that seems to be all they were ever concerned with. 

That's why I campaigned for an exalted weapon from the beginning. Properly implemented it would have solved all (or at least the majority of) issues with Blade Storm, hell, they could even keep the name as the name of the Stance.

DE just did the revisit to silence the "nerf it crowd", which is the wrong option pretty much always. Hopefully we will get something soon, Limbo¡s rework and Nidus prove that they could've done a fine job, they just didn't bother to because they don't give a kubrow's tail about Ash, if 95 pages of megathread without response and "you are now able to chat while cinematic omnislash plays for you" as the only change it got since the revisit was implemented, are an indication.

Hell, I would be fine even if the Stance is cobbled together with Claw and Sparring stances animations.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

A guy in my clan made this point to me, what if Ash's BS used a similar mechanic to Mesa's Peacemaker? Making the aiming reticule change to have it mimic her's but with some sort of different functionality. I don't know about the shrinking or growing part, just the idea of the reticule being bigger and anything caught within it's viewfinder is marked.

If you think about it, it could be good.

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

A guy in my clan made this point to me, what if Ash's BS used a similar mechanic to Mesa's Peacemaker? Making the aiming reticule change to have it mimic her's but with some sort of different functionality. I don't know about the shrinking or growing part, just the idea of the reticule being bigger and anything caught within it's viewfinder is marked.

If you think about it, it could be good.

I've been saying something similar for ages.... basically my idea was bs would only target enemies visible and in line of sight, it would have the old number of targets and a fixed energy cost (like the old one).  It would only attack a target once per marked enemy (stops the endless bs animation from before) and damage could either be increased or based off melee to compensate for less attacks.  It would also be stoppable, unlike the old and new one...because that was and still is a major complaint with bs.  

This would have less potential for motion sickness from the 'wiggle the mouse to mark' approach we have now, it wouldn't eat energy and you'd actually have a chance to kill enemies via bs when in a team with high level gear.  And the best bit, you could cancel it if you wanted.

[Azamagon]

3 hours ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

A guy in my clan made this point to me, what if Ash's BS used a similar mechanic to Mesa's Peacemaker? Making the aiming reticule change to have it mimic her's but with some sort of different functionality. I don't know about the shrinking or growing part, just the idea of the reticule being bigger and anything caught within it's viewfinder is marked.

If you think about it, it could be good.

Exactly (part of) what I have suggested too (I suggested a static, unshrinkable/ungrowable version). However, make the aiming ring's size be affected by Power Range, then you have lots of customization for it.
Another part of buffing its targetting would be that he also marks enemies within a short range of him (like an aura), giving it some synergy with Teleport, as well as Smoke Screen (since you'd be able to get close, more safely), but that's a bit bland I guess?

There is also an alternative way:

Keep the marking slower (the aiming ring could still be added here as well, although then I'd keep it a bit smaller), but make the execution fast; Marked enemies are all attacked AT ONCE, one enemy by the real Ash, all the rest are attacked by a smoke clone, each. (Meaning: If you have marked 10 different enemies, Ash will attack one of them, and then 9 clones will appear to attack the 9 remaining enemies). If enemies are multimarked, he and his clones will attack these targets up to 3 times each, similar to now. That means that you'll never see Ash doing more than 3 execution-animations per cast, significantly speeding up the ability on the end where it really matters.

[Asdryu]

What a forum... Instead of upvoting actual feedbacks and suggestions they upvote spam and salty "jokes"

[ChuckMaverick]

8 hours ago, RyuGold said:

What a forum... Instead of upvoting actual feedbacks and suggestions they upvote spam and salty "jokes"

Upvotes are meaningless, being 'popular' in your comments has no correlation with being logical or correct.

Honestly, most forums would have a higher signal/noise ratio if up/down-votes didn't exist.

Edited March 11, 2017 by ChuckMaverick

[Nazrethim]

 So, this thread is almost 9 months old, and it's still going. So much feedback (both positive and negative) and so many suggestions to actually fix the issues with the frame, both old ones that weren't fixed and new ones that were brought with the Revisit.

@[DE]Rebecca

Any word? or do we have to reach 100 pages and 1y of near constant feedback?

Edited March 12, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

 So, this thread is almost 9 months old, and it's still going. So much feedback (both positive and negative) and so many suggestions to actually fix the issues with the frame, both old ones that weren't fixed and new ones that were brought with the Revisit.

@[DE]Rebecca

Any word? or do we have to reach 100 pages and 1y of near constant feedback?

 

[AnsKap]

In my opinion the latest changes had destroy the Ash game play more than 60%. And one (1) at 20 warframes is Ash ..:( I prefer to return back to the previously Ash game play !

[ChuckMaverick]

2 hours ago, AnsKap said:

In my opinion the latest changes had destroy the Ash game play more than 60%.

How are you measuring 'game play', and how did you calculate 60%?

2 hours ago, AnsKap said:

And one (1) at 20 warframes is Ash

I have no idea what this means, there are 31 different warframes currently (excluding primes).

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

How are you measuring 'game play', and how did you calculate 60%?

I have no idea what this means, there are 31 different warframes currently (excluding primes).

meanwhile, in an alternate timeline!..

Spoiler

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[AnsKap]

3 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

How are you measuring 'game play', and how did you calculate 60%?

I have no idea what this means, there are 31 different warframes currently (excluding primes).

from the squads.. old times Ash presents  more often.. and I, I don t  use it any more after the last changes and some tries to use it ... :( And  i see that is almost left from all squads and many special  missions.

[Iridiusop]

There is a bug!  The teleport augment dosnt work every time, we have to finish the mob with E! can you fix that please?

[Shuuro]

6 hours ago, Iridiusop said:

There is a bug!  The teleport augment dosnt work every time, we have to finish the mob with E! can you fix that please?

That's just lag, it usually happens whenever you are not host. Host a mission and it should work perfectly fine