Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

Just now, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

I do agree, but it just defeats the point of ash being out performed by other frames if they need to use one of the cheesiest focus abilities in the game. 

Ash has smoke screen invisibility. Invisibility on demand is something others would argue is the cheesiest ability in the game. Instead of using shadowstep you tap smoke screen. And if you hate shadowstep then you can smokescreen away using zenurik or arcane energize instead. The point is that Ash has crap abilities with poor sync and little to no group utility. That puts Ash in a poor state for awhile now.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

Ash has smoke screen invisibility. Invisibility on demand is something others would argue is the cheesiest ability in the game. Instead of using shadowstep you tap smoke screen. And if you hate shadowstep then you can smokescreen away using zenurik or arcane energize instead. The point is that Ash has crap abilities with poor sync and little to no group utility. That puts Ash in a poor state for awhile now.

But smokescreen is an ability on ash that has a short duration and isn't refreshable, sure its still invisibility but its an ability on ash not a focus ability that gives any frame perma invisibility as long as the can hit something with a crit melee. Again it's all opinions here shuriken is good for kill air enemies and with some power strength it takes 2-3 casts to kill any lvl 60 enemy which isn't bad for a fire and forget ability. Smokescreen is a nice survivability tool that also has a smooth casting animations, teleport is useful for performing finishers and the augment can pretty much oneshot anything below lvl 300 if you use a very strong melee weapon, bladestorm might not seem good, but for a damage abiltiy it arguably one of the best damage ability in the game just by bypassing armor/shield and dealing crapton of finisher damage with crazy bleed procs. Not only that but compared to the other older frames ash has the best passive too.

[Nazrethim]

11 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't see how an Ash main wants his MAIN feature to become a clone of Excalibur. 

Ash is more than capable in all levels of content. Do NOT give him an exalted stance or have him toss out ninja clones like Ember world on fire.

Just no

Just because you can't possibly think outside of "mindlessly spam E" which defines EB doesn't mean Ash wouldn't benefit from a Stance Ultimate. A properly made Stance Ultimate would ADD to Ash's ninja theme, limit or eliminate cutscene time (or at least make it optional) and, if it's made Duration based as opposed to drain-over-time, it will allow for great build diversity and flexibility. Would also be easier to balance for Conclave, which, if you play it, should know Ash's ONLY upside is being able to channel his melee (due to abilities being largely useless in any practical scenario)

 

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Pls name me atleast 5-6 frames that can kill lvl 200 enemies with armor faster than ash with their abilities alone

Excalibur, Banshee, Ivara, Octavia, Inaros, Mesa.

[Nazrethim]

On 6/7/2017 at 9:42 AM, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

These frames can certainly kill high lvl enemies but inaros, banshee, Nova, and Equinox will get one-shotted at high lvls, ivara I'm not sure since prowl makes her walk everywhere

Neither Ash can survive that. A  shot able to kill Inaros is enough to kill ANY frame sans a Defy Wukong or Valkyr in Hysteria.

 

On 6/7/2017 at 9:45 AM, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

So instead of using an augment they need to use a focus tree to do endgame.... nice

Ash flat out requires Max Efficiency, Zenurik or Arcane Energize JUST to not run dry after marking 5 enemies!

 

On 6/7/2017 at 9:54 AM, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

The point is that Ash has crap abilities with poor sync and little to no group utility. That puts Ash in a poor state for awhile now.

This. Bonus points for ALL of his abilities being USELESS in Conclave, with BS being so useless it crosses into detrimental.

 

On 6/7/2017 at 10:07 AM, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

bladestorm might not seem good,

Is terrible. Worse in every aspect to old and didn't actually fix anyhing other than P42W

Quote

but for a damage abiltiy it arguably one of the best damage ability in the game just by bypassing armor/shield and dealing crapton of finisher damage with crazy bleed procs. Not only that but compared to the other older frames ash has the best passive too.

Probably. Until you factor in that Shuriken is way more cost-efficient in the Bleed department, and either the bleed is useless (marks are consumed anyway regardless if the bleed would kill the target) or redundant (you kill thme instantly or your allies finish them off). Fatal Teleport outperforms BS as a single target /small crowd finisher attack and Smoke Screen duration isn't paused during it meaning you are likely going to DIE as soon as BS ends. Good thing the cutscene lasts forever if you use it on more than 12 enemies (on top of leaving you dry of energy unless you are Max Effi or Zenurik because the BS cost reduction isn't enough to cover the massive nerf the ability took).

BladeStorm simply overlaps with the other abilities and it's cost is so ludicrous that is not worth using other than for sh*ts and giggles. Wanna slaughter 20 or so enemies? Smoke Screen and it's melee damage buff do the job better than Failstorm.

[Hypernaut1]

20 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

 

Ash flat out requires Max Efficiency, Zenurik or Arcane Energize JUST to not run dry after marking 5 enemies!

 

 

We are must be playing two different frames.

I can mark way more than 5 enemies before running out of energy, even with a modest modding set up and 2 augments.

I'm thinking that maybe you just don't know how to play or mod Ash. That, or you refuse to, in order to convince people that he's "trash"

[Nazrethim]

11 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

We are obviously playing two different frames.

I can mark way more than 5 enemies with a modest modding set up and 2 augments.

I'm thinking that maybe you just don't know how to play or mod Ash. That it you refuse to, in order to convince people that he's "trash"

I got all the mods and I've been playing Ash in different setups for 3 years now. I know my way around him. You know how much energy does it take to mark 5 enemies? 15(45)x5=75(225). Compare to old BS that marked 18 enemies for 100 energy (cost was roughly 2.1 per enemy)

Right now, Blade Storm is absolutely a waste of energy if you don't have Max efficiency, Zenurik or Energize.

Also, you should play him in Conclave too, see how "good" he is. And it's because of this whole damn nerf DE imposed on Ash because of a bunch of whiners who wanted a massive nerf and a bunch of morons who think the Revisit was good for the frame.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

33 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Neither Ash can survive that. A  shot able to kill Inaros is enough to kill ANY frame sans a Defy Wukong or Valkyr in Hysteria.

Good thing smokescreen exist

 

33 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Is terrible. Worse in every aspect to old and didn't actually fix anyhing other than P42W

That's the point. the rework wasn't going to make bladestorm better but instead update it to warframe current energy economy. Back then having atleast 100 energy was awesome, nowadays gaining energy is nothing special since there are so many ways to get energy that and we can reduce the cost of abilities, so having an ability like bladestorm that can wipe a room full of lvl 150 enemies and cost 25 energy was ridiculously stupid. Using efficiency mods is MANDATORY for more than half the frames so yeah. Also you make it sound like ash is the only frame that has energy problems unmodded when he uses 4. 

Don't forget the "failstorm" can kill a lvl 180 corrupted bombard in seconds with the right setup so don't act surprised when bladestorm cost a lot of energy.

Edited June 7, 2017 by (XB1)CFE Angry

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

 

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor etc.

·         He can`t kill in an AOE anymore.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

The corrected way to rework bs is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

 

·         Enemies that are marked can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill 20 enemies

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can come out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·         Make bs set with a appropriate speed then make melee mods with fury speed up bs.

From what I have seen and heard the way Ash`s bladestorm is, some players are not using him and let’s call it what it is, if bs was gone ash will be useless vs multiple enemies like nova, loki, ember without their 4^th ability.

[Hypernaut1]

14 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I got all the mods and I've been playing Ash in different setups for 3 years now. I know my way around him. You know how much energy does it take to mark 5 enemies? 15(45)x5=75(225). Compare to old BS that marked 18 enemies for 100 energy (cost was roughly 2.1 per enemy)

Right now, Blade Storm is absolutely a waste of energy if you don't have Max efficiency, Zenurik or Energize.

Also, you should play him in Conclave too, see how "good" he is. And it's because of this whole damn nerf DE imposed on Ash because of a bunch of whiners who wanted a massive nerf and a bunch of morons who think the Revisit was good for the frame.

1. I couldn't care less what he does in conclave! It has nothing to do with pve balance.

2. If you're having trouble marking enemies while you play, trust me.... You're not modding right. I don't have any issues at all with Ash, and in don't use rage or depend on zenurik. 

3. BS can't be spammed anymore, but it comes in handy when I need to kill multiple high level enemies. It's not for trash mobs anymore. If you want to feel good about yourself by decimating trash mobs faster than anyone, just pick Ember. Ash is more of an assassin now. 

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Good thing smokescreen exist

Yeah, because Smoke Screen is imposible to dispel and ash is inmune to stray fire while invisible.. oh wait.

Quote

That's the point. the rework wasn't going to make bladestorm better but instead update it to warframe current energy economy. Back then having atleast 100 energy was awesome, nowadays gaining energy is nothing special since there are so many ways to get energy that and we can reduce the cost of abilities, so having an ability like bladestorm that can wipe a room full of lvl 150 enemies and cost 25 energy was ridiculously stupid. Using efficiency mods is MANDATORY for more than half the frames so yeah. Also you make it sound like ash is the only frame that has energy problems unmodded when he uses 4. 

Don't forget the "failstorm" can kill a lvl 180 corrupted bombard in seconds with the right setup so don't act surprised when bladestorm cost a lot of energy.

One the points of the "rework" was to reduce cutscene time and make the ability more interactive. Current takes longer and has the same interactivity as before. And at NO POINT energy economy was mentioned. And considering Limbo can wipe crowds for 100 energy that's saying something. BS costs more energy than Ash has available! Have you done the math? Of course not!

So what? game is not balanced around lvl 180s, or anything past 60-70, as the very broken enemies in sorties prove. And BS is still outperformed greatly by... default values Fatal Teleport with most melees, not even CL. BS ISN'T A SINGLE TARGET ABILITY VOIDAM IT! It's a mass slaughter tool. Ash going on a rampage! Or it was, until DE nerfed it into the ground instead of actually reworking into something interactive, with little to no cutscene and just as (or even more) destructive potential (for those that play it well).

You think killing 150 enemies for 25 energy is ridiculous? Then why you defend draining 300 (900 for 3 marks) f+king energy on 20 dudes of ANY level? It has been mathematically proven that current BS is pure BS.

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

1. I couldn't care less what he does in conclave! It has nothing to do with pve balance.

Yer' no Ash fan!

Also, the reason BS is The Most Sh*tty Ultimate In The Whole Damn Conclave IS because of it's sh*tty PvE revisit.

Quote

2. If you're having trouble marking enemies while you play, trust me.... You're not modding right. I don't have any issues at all with Ash, and in don't use rage or depend on zenurik. 

I have ZERO problem marking. Oh right, I forgot to MOD FOR MAX EFFICIENCY, the only way to play him according to what I'm sure are very skilled players who know the concept of 'customization' and 'actual freaking gamebalance'

Quote

3. BS can't be spammed anymore, but it comes in handy when I need to kill multiple high level enemies. It's not for trash mobs anymore. If you want to feel good about yourself by decimating trash mobs faster than anyone, just pick Ember. Ash is more of an assassin now. 

Which Smoke Screen+Melee does better for trash mobs, and for high profile tough targets Teleport still does it better.

Also, ability description: "Ash goes on a rampage destroying nearby enemies". That isn't an assassination tool (that's what Teleport is for), that is a mass slaughter tool, which currently doesn't work. It's slow as a snail for actual room clearing, it drains more energy than the warframe has capacity for (unless you go for mandatory Max efficiency, and even then it's sh*t) and is a cutscene longer than FF XII's Intro Cinematic. It simply doesn't work. It's the weakest the ability has been since it's introduction.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

We are must be playing two different frames.

I can mark way more than 5 enemies before running out of energy, even with a modest modding set up and 2 augments.

I'm thinking that maybe you just don't know how to play or mod Ash. That, or you refuse to, in order to convince people that he's "trash"

I'm sorry again but by the time you mark up your 5 enemies with 3 stacks with your mandatory max efficiency and zenurik, the average AOE primary or even melee has already dealt with them. If not then other warframe abilities will beat you to it or you own fatal teleport was the better, faster and thus more efficient option to begin with.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by (PS4)vrykolacas82

[TheBlackSpectre]

Having returned to Warframe after a year's hiatus, I have some practical advice and some comments about the Ash rework...

First, when I first started playing Warframe, finally acquired Ash, and used his #4 for the first time there was an amazing "OMG!! This is so cool!" factor. I really enjoyed the animations of Ash jumping from one enemy to another. I especially liked that Ash would jab his sword into an opponents neck multiple times until that enemy was dead. That was so cool! (it's the blood-thirsty savage in me). I really enjoyed Ash and his #4. As I matured as a Warframe gamer, his #4 became less and less interesting... but he was still one of the most powerful warframes in the game. He could clear the room. Interestingly, he was not the only warframe that could do that, and some routinely outclassed him in number of kills and speed of clearing the room. In fact, the cool Bladestorm animation could take a loooooong time to finish if he was attacking a ton of enemies. This itself was a disadvantage, and as time went on it became a liability. If he attacked a large amount, he could not react quickly enough to fast changes in the environment, and would often be killed because of it. So Ash was definitely powerful, but he wasn't more powerful than many other warframes, and there were some drawbacks to using Bladestorm with a large group.

Now, my first impression with the new Ash is pretty much what Vrykolacas82 said above. It takes a long time to target, and usually by the time enough enemies have been targeted to make using the #4 worthwhile, other players have already killed the targets. This creates a problem in gameplay. The player is standing around doing nothing than targeting, and when ready to attack, can't. This offers no contribution to the team, and it exacerbates Bladestorm's original drawback of taking the player out of gameplay for too long. 

Interestingly, this has made Ash's #2 teleport power much more fun. With it you can cross distance to attack way faster than any other Warframe. The problem with doing this, however, is that targeting is slow and must be exact. Often i would target an enemy only to hear the buzz sound of it not targeting my target, and this was mostly because I was moving in frantic combat.  So that made teleport-attack un-usable for me. That left Shuirikin (sp?) and stealth. Stealth's duration is way too short to make it very useful. With 168% power duration, this only makes Stealth last about 13 seconds. It's not that useful.

So I got to thinking, and it occurred to me that if what we want out of Ash is more player interaction and activity, then it seems clear to me that Ash needs another rework. His powers need to be faster and used in a faster way to be more interactive in combat. If his Bladestorm was more of a super fast multiple opponent teleport attack, then players would once again not be waiting around for his powers to target or complete. To do this, Bladestorm could automatically target any enemies within a smallish cylinder (big enough to target a small group of 3-5 enemies standing side by side, within the hitbox of a long melee weapon). The targeting would be automatic because it would be an AOE, which would allow the player to spin and turn and retarget and re-engage the power again, and again, and again, and again. This would make for super fast, interactive gameplay. In reality, all it would be doing is exactly what a good melee weapon would do with jump attacks except faster by eliminating distance. It would make the player work harder too, and make the player attack frantically all over the room... like a raging storm. Damage should be very high because there would be no chance of attacking the same target multiple times in the same attack/click. This rework would allow Ash to compete for kills with other players, but not dominate the entire room. Just some ideas to consider.

As you can probably tell, eventually tonight I stopped using all of Ash's powers (except his #1) in favor of a melee weapon which was far more interactive, faster, and effective in clearing the room and competing with other players for kills.        

 

[Nazrethim]

13 hours ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

I'm sorry again but by the time you mark up your 5 enemies with 3 stacks with your mandatory max efficiency and zenurik, the average AOE primary or even melee has already dealt with them. If not then other warframe abilities will beat you to it or you own fatal teleport was the better, faster and thus more efficient option to begin with.

Indeed. Let's also mention that current BS pretty much murdered build diversity with it's excesive cost.

Previously you were allowed to build for other stuff different to max efficiency, because even if you didn't mod for it, BS would only use 100 energy and be good for dealing with large crowds.

Now, BS cost of 15 per mark makes it so power hungry that either you build for Max Effi+Zen/Energize or you build for anything else.

11 hours ago, TheBlackSpectre said:

As you can probably tell, eventually tonight I stopped using all of Ash's powers (except his #1) in favor of a melee weapon which was far more interactive, faster, and effective in clearing the room and competing with other players for kills.       

Interestingly, that's more or less what has become of Ash in Conclave, ALL of his abilities are so useless that the only strong point of Ash is that he can use Melee Channeling with no drawback, as otherwise using powers is a waste of energy, time and, for BS, more dangerous to Ash than the intended targets.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Lucavee]

Old BS: press 4, enjoy automated seizure. done.

New BS: press 4, do manual seizure, press 4 again, enjoy automated seizure.

Now I actually get motion sickness from playing Ash. Cool, but badly designed.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Everybody knew that Ash's "press4towin" bladestorm meta was the whole reason DE even considered touching ash. Everything else was just extra, so as long as bladestorm isn't press4towin anymore DE is happy with it. Now, I'm not saying that this "rework" is good, because it's not but nobody is dismissing the fact that bladestorm cost more energy, it just the energy cost doesn't really affect them and their builds that much, especially if you take in account the amount of ways DE gave us to fix energy problems. If you think bladestorm is expensive then don't use it, There are frames like ember, saryn, and even Mesa who has to spend a crap ton of energy just to deal meaningful damage with their abilities at higher lvls. one of the best parts about ash is that you can dish out crazy Damage in any form you want. Like using armor stripping or smokescreen's melee multiplier and oneshot teleport which if you use any efficiency mods, Ash's first three abilities is cheap heck even a streamline will make them very spammable, sure maybe bladestorm got nerfed but if it was that bad DE would've released hotfixes for it, just look at oberon's rework(he actually needed one) and how DE released like 3 hotfixes for him. Look, you guys have all the reasons to be upset, but you guys are acting like bladestorm was the only thing that made him a good frame.

[Nazrethim]

On 09/06/2017 at 4:43 AM, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

 Look, you guys have all the reasons to be upset, but you guys are acting like bladestorm was the only thing that made him a good frame.

I'm actually upset because Bladestorm got nerfed instead of reworked, they essentially took the worst aspects of BS and change the ability to make them worse. They increased the cutscene time, they increased the cost by 200% to 600% (I don't recall Limboom using 500 or so energy per cast) and they traded seizure inducing cutscenes by... seizure inducing marking mode+seizure inducing cutscenes. If Max Effi was convenient in the past, they made it flat out mandatory. At least with olde you could actually build with Blind rage or without Fleeting Expertise and the ability would still have a reasonable cost. The problems the other abilities had were largely ignored (try to aim shuriken to someone you actually want to hit and ti will fly into a f*cking roller or, in kuva fort, to invulnerable damn cameras, Telport still telebugs you inside objects and is unreliable at best and useless at worse as a mobility tool) except for Smoke Screen not being castable on the move (which was the only actual beneficial change this whole mess brought with it, and the stagger is still largely useless)

And because DE decided to make Ash the most useless frame in Conclave.

It wasn't just Blade Storm (though the ability itself was by far the moving force behind the rework, as it s mechanics were and still are, outdated) it was the lack of love given to the frame.  Feels like they want us to just accept it and be happy about a Delux Skin (which I admit is gorgeous, but not enough to turn a blind eye to what is a crystal clear failure).

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

This is getting ridiculous 

How is that so ridiculous ? Most points on that list are pretty spot on

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

On 09/06/2017 at 4:43 AM, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

 Look, you guys have all the reasons to be upset, but you guys are acting like bladestorm was the only thing that made him a good frame.

Yes being upset is putting it mildly after all the platinum I dumped into the customization options for Ash. Stating that 'you guys' are acting as if BS was the only good thing is pulling a lot of whats been said of of its context.

These 127 pages of replies are filled with good rework ideas for ALL his abilities. Non of his other 3 abilities were touched in order to make them sync or give proper team benefits. Then they keep the old BS despite all the arguments against it and add a lame targeting mechanic. Subsequently, DE has the actual metaphorical balls to call it a revisit / rework and leave it unattended for what a year?

Meanwhile new frames pop up like mushrooms from the ground and these frames like Titania, Atlas, Wukong, Nezha are so poor, unfinished and next to useless that they are hardly used for anything other than mastery fodder.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

18 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Indeed. By this point, only 4 kinds of people think the revisit was good:

1- People in denial

2- People who hate Ash or don't care about him (why do they comment on a frame they don't like/care is anyone's guess)

3- People totally lost on their max efficiency bubble.

4- Morons

And actual fans of the frame are either:
1- Enduring the nerfs

2- Asking on the Forums and Social Media for a true meaningful Ash Rework

3- Abandoned Warframe out of disgust

True story ^ 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor etc.

·         He can`t kill in an AOE anymore.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

The corrected way to rework bs is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

·         Enemies that are marked can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill 20 enemies

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can come out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·         Make bs set with a appropriate speed then make melee mods with fury speed up bs.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Ash is probably gonna be reworked again soon hopefully by the end of this year maybe 

[Nazrethim]

And if they read all the comments they will find:

-Players hate (or at least stop enjoying) the cutscenes after seeing them 10 times.

-Marking mode is really bad and didn't actually change anything in the ability

-Players were expecting something much better or at least different

-Stance Ultimate being a rather disliked option, even though it's probably the best option, or at least the path of less resistance to actually fix the frame's problems. Interestingly, the opposition is roughly written as "I don't want another cheesy exalted blade"

-People who don't know any better and think the changes are good despite all evidence pointing the other way.

-Players who don't notice it's a nerf because they use Max Efficiency or some other broken way to get infinite energy and thus were not really harmed by the revisit. They play music while Rome burns around them and they don't care (or notice)

-People who dislike or never played the frame an are happy about the nerf (and even they are aware it's a straight nerf)

-Rework suggestions that go from possible and practical to ludicrous and a nightmare to code to really really sh*tty with poor forethought.

-Players pointing out the rework didn't actually change anything in playstyle, and if it did, it was rather inconsecuential or titanically bad.

-Players asking DE for an answer or another rework, an actual rework

-DE not giving a single word on any of the subjects and seemingly ignoring the fact they just butchered a frame and ruined it's chance for greatness

[BrownZFilmZ]

On 6/11/2017 at 4:39 PM, Nazrethim said:

And if they read all the comments they will find:

-Players hate (or at least stop enjoying) the cutscenes after seeing them 10 times.

-Marking mode is really sh*tty and didn't actually change anything in the ability

-Players were expecting something much better or at least different

-Stance Ultimate being a rather disliked option, even though it's probably the best option, or at least the path of less resistance to actually fix the frame's problems. Interestingly, the opposition is roughly written as "I don't want another cheesy exalted blade"

-People who don't know any better and think the changes are good despite all evidence pointing the other way.

-Players who don't notice it's a nerf because they use Max Efficiency or some other broken way to get infinite energy and thus were not really harmed by the revisit. They play music while Rome burns around them and they don't care (or notice)

-People who dislike or never played the frame an are happy about the nerf (and even they are aware it's a straight nerf)

-Rework suggestions that go from possible and practical to ludicrous and a nightmare to code to really really sh*tty with poor forethought.

-Players pointing out the rework didn't actually change anything in playstyle, and if it did, it was rather inconsecuential or titanically bad.

-Players asking DE for an answer or another rework, an actual rework

-DE not giving a single word on any of the subjects and seemingly ignoring the fact they just butchered a frame and ruined it's chance for greatness

Also don't forget the whole use in end game use of Blade Storm is laughable now. I only have a BS build to attempt to show people how BS works at high level:

• You go invisible
• Mark enemies
  • So much fun *sarcasm*
• Sit there watching
  • Even more fun *still sarcasm*
  • Because it shows every single kill, and is even more boring compared to Pre-Nerf
• Your invisibility runs out
  • 12 Seconds isn't good enough
  • For some reason 2 Sets of Arcane Trickery haven't proc'd yet...
• The survivors shoot you once BS ends
  • Of course you didn't even have time to move or go invisible
  • At this point you have died once shot at.

BS in endgame in a nutshell.

Edited June 14, 2017 by xKazuto
Add the point that when shot, you die.

[Dragazer]

15 minutes ago, xKazuto said:

Also don't forget the whole use in end game use of Blade Storm is laughable now. I only have a BS build to attempt to show people how BS works at high level:

• You go invisible
• Mark enemies
  • So much fun *sarcasm*
• Sit there watching
  • Even more fun *still sarcasm*
  • Because it shows every single kill, and is even more boring compared to Pre-Nerf
• Your invisibility runs out
  • 12 Seconds isn't good enough
  • For some reason 2 Sets of Arcane Trickery haven't proc'd yet...
• The survivors shoot you once BS ends
  • Of course you didn't even have time to move or go invisible
  • At this point you have died once shot at.

BS in endgame in a nutshell.

Yeah its joke really, they fixed none of Blade storm's issues and ended up adding more, not to mention the fact its a lot more energy inefficient  

(Pre rework: 100 energy for 18 enemies. Post rework: 270 energy for 18 enemies 215 while invis) 

This entire thread is pointless, 127 pages and still going, and yet not a single change has been made since his "rework"

Guess there isn't much interest to fix things when you think they won't bring in money.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Dragazer

[Nazrethim]

On 14/06/2017 at 11:49 PM, Dragazer said:

Yeah its joke really, they fixed none of Blade storm's issues and ended up adding more, not to mention the fact its a lot more energy inefficient  

(Pre rework: 100 energy for 18 enemies. Post rework: 270 energy for 18 enemies 215 while invis)

And that's for single mark. Multiply that BS 3x and you get to use 810 energy on 18 enemies, 645 while invisible.