Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[StonedMakak]

But, but... this thread is just an echo chamber for malcontents! /s

On a more serious note, thank you DE for listening to feedback and giving an option to bypass the cutscene. However the energy economy/damage is tweaked, this change will actually allow us to play Warframe instead of Gi(f)frame, when picking Ash. Much appreciated.

5 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

So after watching that video more times than i should've, but it poses a question...does it look like it's going to be fun? Is it gonna be a fun "new" way to kill your enemies? I'll hold off on answering that myself till after i see more of it but what about you guys?

Can't speak for others but the vomit.gif is (hopefully, soon to be "was") decreasing my fun levels drastically with every press of the 4 key. Logically then, when I will be free to ignore it, I should observe a net increase in fun when playing Ash.

This is one of those subtle changes that can be a drastic improvement, is what I'm saying.

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by tisdfogg

[GTXproject001]

PLEASE remove the 3 mark on enemy its really annoying to wiggle screen left and right to get 3 marks.

[Synpai]

Kinda wish they'd implement:

1. Shuriken marking enemies (Marks shouldn't be required to bladestorm; marks should make enemies take extra melee damage from you or increase finisher damage, etc),
2. Slowmo like aim glide each time you jump to someone with teleport (recastable, so you choose next target; No Target will OPT out of the blade storm)
3. Every time you jump from one person you release a flurry of shuriken.
4. If you teleport to a clone's target they (The clone) explode in shuriken and respawn after a short duration.

Extra (probably too much):

-% of Damage redirected to target (or at least reduced during slowmo)

Edited February 1, 2018 by Synpai

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Guys, there is still one problem… you are still marking and its still going to cost a lot of energy still. Work still needs to be done.

[Yperkeimenos]

Concerning ninja clone attacks ,I have two words for you.......Shinobi Bunshin 1987

[Shad0wWatcher]

5 hours ago, tisdfogg said:

But, but... this thread is just an echo chamber for malcontents! /s

On a more serious note, thank you DE for listening to feedback and giving an option to bypass the cutscene. However the energy economy/damage is tweaked, this change will actually allow us to play Warframe instead of Gi(f)frame, when picking Ash. Much appreciated.

Can't speak for others but the vomit.gif is (hopefully, soon to be "was") decreasing my fun levels drastically with every press of the 4 key. Logically then, when I will be free to ignore it, I should observe a net increase in fun when playing Ash.

This is one of those subtle changes that can be a drastic improvement, is what I'm saying.

 

Makes sense

[Hypernaut1]

after seeing the demo, it seems like practically the same thing, except that you need to hit teleport to join in on bladestorm with clones.

Not bad.

[Nazrethim]

hace 8 horas, Shad0wWatcher dijo:

So after watching that video more times than i should've, but it poses a question...does it look like it's going to be fun? Is it gonna be a fun "new" way to kill your enemies? I'll hold off on answering that myself till after i see more of it but what about you guys?

Consider it pretty much removes any involvement Ash had with it, and considering nothing has been mentioned of speeding it up or reducing the broken energy cost  (meaning that using your weapons will just be better anyway as it happens now). I would say no. It won't be fun or new, it will be World on fire, but with more damage and a marking system almost everyone agrees is bad (though for different reasons).

The problem is that the core mechanics remain the same, and the problem with the ability (sans broken cost) is almost entirely on it's core mechanics.

At least they sort of noticed that BS and TP are pretty much the same (ash teleports to stab someone) to make them work in together (Though in a clunky nobody-asked-it way)

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Consider it pretty much removes any involvement Ash had with it, and considering nothing has been mentioned of speeding it up or reducing the broken energy cost  (meaning that using your weapons will just be better anyway as it happens now). I would say no. It won't be fun or new, it will be World on fire, but with more damage and a marking system almost everyone agrees is bad (though for different reasons).

The problem is that the core mechanics remain the same, and the problem with the ability (sans broken cost) is almost entirely on it's core mechanics.

At least they sort of noticed that BS and TP are pretty much the same (ash teleports to stab someone) to make them work in together (Though in a clunky nobody-asked-it way)

Thanks for giving your take-away on the current idea Nazrethim, I sorta consider you the Ash guy in my eyes. Good points.

[Shad0wWatcher]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Consider it pretty much removes any involvement Ash had with it, and considering nothing has been mentioned of speeding it up or reducing the broken energy cost  (meaning that using your weapons will just be better anyway as it happens now). I would say no. It won't be fun or new, it will be World on fire, but with more damage and a marking system almost everyone agrees is bad (though for different reasons).

The problem is that the core mechanics remain the same, and the problem with the ability (sans broken cost) is almost entirely on it's core mechanics.

At least they sort of noticed that BS and TP are pretty much the same (ash teleports to stab someone) to make them work in together (Though in a clunky nobody-asked-it way)

Well when you put it like that...hm...i see your points. But again, i'll hold off on an answer to my own question till i see more of it or at least get more info on it. Actually now that i think more about it, best way to put is, do you like to play with Ember with WoF turned on? Or do you like the current BS? If you like both...well that's what i'm seeing in that little vid. If not...well...hm...idk. Which is why i don't have an answer yet.

I'm torn, on one side really got sick of the cutscene-styled BS and i did always think that seeing BS from the outside looked cooler than it does while actually being in it(ironically). Cause all you do is wait till it's done. Now at least you can continue while your clones take care of business...

on the other side...Ember's WoF is...mindless is the right word i guess...but it works for Ember cause fire...with Ash...you have his clones...and don't get me wrong i dig the clones...but not if they do all the work, but i guess that's where the option comes in to be able to opt into the carnage....but i can do the same with a sword...so you know...i like it...but...i'm not jumping in my socks about it after thinking about it carefully...kinda like how i reacted when they showcased the current BS the first time...only back then i didn't need to think about it, i just didn't see what was there to be excited about. Which was sad cause Ash is my favorite frame and my "goto" guy for anything...except defense...let good ol' FreeziPop handle that...unless we already have another Popsicle in the team...in which case i switch back to Ash.

P.S.

Also a thing i would love...and maybe too much to ask...but to make smoke screen/shadow recast-able...and be affected by range or power strength mods in some capacity.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Shad0wWatcher

[Nazrethim]

Justo ahora, Shad0wWatcher dijo:

Well when you put it like that...hm...i see your points. But again, i'll hold off on an answer to my own question till i see more of it or at least get more info on it. Actually now that i think more about it, best way to put is, do you like to play with Ember with WoF turned on? Or do you like the current BS? If you like both...well that's what i'm seeing in that little vid. If not...well...hm...idk. Which is why i don't have an answer yet.

I'm torn, on one side really got sick of the cutscene-styled BS and i did always think that seeing BS from the outside looked cooler than it does while actually being in it(ironically). Cause all you do is wait till it's done. Now at least you can continue while your clones take care of business...

on the other side...Ember's WoF is...mindless is the right word i guess...but it works for Ember cause fire...with Ash...you have his clones...and don't get me wrong i dig the clones...but not if they do all the work, but i guess that's where the option comes in to be able to opt into the carnage....but i can do the same with a sword...so you know...i like it...but...i'm not jumping in my socks about it after thinking about it carefully...kinda like how i reacted when they showcased the current BS the first time...only back then i didn't need to think about it, i just didn't see what was there to be excited about. Which was sad cause Ash is my favorite frame and my "goto" guy for anything...except defense...let good ol' FreeziPop handle that...unless we already have another Popsicle in the team...in which case i switch back to Ash.

Basically you are excited about change, but the change isn't "good enough" because it remains a clunky mess anyway.

I will certainly find it useful in some situations, like when you need to focus fire one target but you are surrounded by enemies that get in the way. You can just activate BS so the clones take care while you use focus fire on your target.

This change would also excel at Defense, as Ash could set up a group to be BS'ed while he keeps another at bay.

If the cost is fixed it has more useful potential than current. And it will be fun, for about 5 seconds. Since it's not engaging it will eventually devolve into player apathy. Like World on Fire.

 

After coldly analizing BS previous and current failings and how to properly solve them (I'm talkin simple tweaks here, not a full rework, surprisingly none of the tweaks made it even though they are even more fkin easy than what they are working on) I cannot really feel excited beyond the initial "DE gives a cr*p about Ash!" phase that lasted 5 seconds between seening the response in 'Last Staff Replies' and actually seeing what's up.

[Zounderth]

10 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Well when you put it like that...hm...i see your points. But again, i'll hold off on an answer to my own question till i see more of it or at least get more info on it. Actually now that i think more about it, best way to put is, do you like to play with Ember with WoF turned on? Or do you like the current BS? If you like both...well that's what i'm seeing in that little vid. If not...well...hm...idk. Which is why i don't have an answer yet.

I'm torn, on one side really got sick of the cutscene-styled BS and i did always think that seeing BS from the outside looked cooler than it does while actually being in it(ironically). Cause all you do is wait till it's done. Now at least you can continue while your clones take care of business...

on the other side...Ember's WoF is...mindless is the right word i guess...but it works for Ember cause fire...with Ash...you have his clones...and don't get me wrong i dig the clones...but not if they do all the work, but i guess that's where the option comes in to be able to opt into the carnage....but i can do the same with a sword...so you know...i like it...but...i'm not jumping in my socks about it after thinking about it carefully...kinda like how i reacted when they showcased the current BS the first time...only back then i didn't need to think about it, i just didn't see what was there to be excited about. Which was sad cause Ash is my favorite frame and my "goto" guy for anything...except defense...let good ol' FreeziPop handle that...unless we already have another Popsicle in the team...in which case i switch back to Ash.

P.S.

Also a thing i would love...and maybe too much to ask...but to make smoke screen/shadow recast-able...and be affected by range or power strength mods in some capacity.

why not have both? XD so just let the Bladestorm do the cinematic kills as is, but then provide an alternative to send the clones to do Bladestorm via initiating Teleport and/or Smoke Screen. 

[(PSN)DeathStroke1910]

In this rework, could we still be able to mark enemies while the clones are bladestorming? I think that would be great. I wouldn't even mind if we had an augment that allowed us to do that. Also the energy cost still needs to be addressed.

[Suicidal_Bunny]

I love how Meg had to use cheats to show off how awesome ash is now >.> running around marking enemies would have gotten her killed 50 times over in a normal mission XD. Ash is still same sad husk of his former self. Why would you run around doing 0 damage marking enemies when you already have a gun aiming at the guy and just by clicking your mouse button you can kill that enemy? So you can sit back and watch your clones do the damage you could have already done with your gun? oh and also if they were in a mission with any other players all the enemies would have been long dead before they could have used any of their clones. Kinda makes the skill useless in team play.

[(PSN)ACiDiC_SiNz]

Thank GOD, finally DE have heard our prayers and started working on this long overdue issue ... Firstly thank you DE. Secondly, please take the time and read roud this thread for some points and advise as there has been many good ideas raised and please pelase please do something about the energy cost ... Keep up the great work DE, it is much appreciated.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

Blade storm take downs would have to have some addtional mechanics:

The Combo Counter can stay consistent with the melee weapon and Blade Storm combo; so 'Rising Storm' can be a swap out for Drifting Contact.

Blade Storm kills next to the teleport ability can be counted as Stealth kills should the player not be detected or aware of like normal circumstances hold in Stealth kills.

Give the objectives and panels to doors a health bar that is detected; so teleporting can function to the purpose of the rework.

These convient details to account for would help Ash function like Oberon, Hydroid, and other Warframes.

[(PSN)EnemyTrait]

I've seen Bladestorm compared to World on Fire a few times. Bladestorm isn't an AoE attack, but if it were: Cast Bladestorm, Energy starts to deplete while the clone ninja attacks marks in real time.

I haven't read all 161 pages on this subject. So, if this is a moot point, please forgive.

Edited February 2, 2018 by (PS4)EnemyTrait
Disclaimer

[Shad0wWatcher]

11 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Basically you are excited about change, but the change isn't "good enough" because it remains a clunky mess anyway.

I will certainly find it useful in some situations, like when you need to focus fire one target but you are surrounded by enemies that get in the way. You can just activate BS so the clones take care while you use focus fire on your target.

This change would also excel at Defense, as Ash could set up a group to be BS'ed while he keeps another at bay.

If the cost is fixed it has more useful potential than current. And it will be fun, for about 5 seconds. Since it's not engaging it will eventually devolve into player apathy. Like World on Fire.

 

After coldly analizing BS previous and current failings and how to properly solve them (I'm talkin simple tweaks here, not a full rework, surprisingly none of the tweaks made it even though they are even more fkin easy than what they are working on) I cannot really feel excited beyond the initial "DE gives a cr*p about Ash!" phase that lasted 5 seconds between seening the response in 'Last Staff Replies' and actually seeing what's up.

Yeah i guess thats about it. After a year of silence i feel it could've been more but at the same time, they responded....albeit on reddit instead of the freaking forums of the game itself. 

[PhynxX]

My suggestion would be

- remove the 3 mark, mark once only is enough

- make the marking enemy faster, like if u mark an enemy,  the enemy around his radius also got marked automatically ( just cap the radius so ppl dont abuse it)

- long press 3 u will automatically teleport to ur clone which attcking high priority enemy so u cn join the clone ( with fatal teleport u cn activate it)

Edited February 2, 2018 by PhynxX

[DroopingPuppy]

I think that remove the whole idea of mark target would make him function better.

[Rozalinsnow]

Long time player, Ash main. Please don't change Bladestorm again, I really really enjoy the aspect of the player character being teleported around as well. It's not Bladestorm without it, it's just targeted enemy damage with a clone graphic. Not fun.

[Shad0wWatcher]

13 hours ago, Zounderth said:

why not have both? XD so just let the Bladestorm do the cinematic kills as is, but then provide an alternative to send the clones to do Bladestorm via initiating Teleport and/or Smoke Screen. 

Well that is apparently what we're getting bro xD

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Because people are blinded by “send clones to kill” people don`t see that ash`s bs is still a problem. Other ppl can still take his kills, the marking system is still a problem and its still drains allot of energy plus the ppl that like the animation will have to use more energy, work still needs to be done.

Edited February 2, 2018 by (PS4)Vexx757

[RIKENZ]

Use mine for ember build

[WarbossCurb]

Feel free to use my Ember, Zeph, or Banshee, as they are forma'ed to do whatever you need. (not load out guy, so you would just need to select them)

Edited February 2, 2018 by WarbossCurb