Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[K4r4k4s4]

32 minutes ago, Wiverio said:

little delay after using the bladestorm

That delay was always there. Sometimes its barely noticable but sometimes it lasts couple of seconds (lags and micro-freezes). Because of this delay it's difficult to survive on high-level missions crowded with mobs (100+) even with old bladestorm. And yes, after performing teleport / fatal teleport it is also a small window where Ash is already vulnerable but control not yet returned.

Edited November 29, 2016 by K4r4k4s4

[Acos]

Fatal Teleport shouldn't have only just now become relevant. The purpose of Teleport was always a single target finisher with excessively high damage for problem targets like Bombards or Heavies. Bladestorm is for almost everything else. 

In fact I still don't think Fatal Teleport is necessary considering how often it doesn't work, how it limits your approach (I often want to teleport to my enemy and to a slide dash instead or something else entirely), and how the amount of damage it does is largely excessive (I can still kill up to level 140 bombards with a normal finisher at 2x multiplier). 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

when this rework was finally announced i was crititcal towards its lack of imagination considering the long wait.

but after trying him i have to admit: as minimal these mechanic changes seem i totally undererstimated how extensively they affect gameplay.

i won't lie: to me ash is INFINITELY more fun to play now. like day/night.

it might not be perfect, like alot of people i feel it's a missed opportunity to get rid of that seizure inducing, highly disorienting "cinematic", but apart from that...

i love how his survivabilty is more centered around smoke screen now (though i would have preferred a rework of that skill to work more like a, y'know, smoke bomb, which would potentially help his team play too, while being more unique of a skill but yeah...) and how much more dynamic he feels now as you can activate it in any situation. BS: the idea of acting in the shadows, marking your enemies to precisely strike in a critical moment... man, it really feels ninja like even o_O... also appreciate the fact you get your energy back when you won't actually need it. i feel its overall effectivity is aptly balanced and in line with the rest of his kit, which by the way i found myself frequently using in its entirety now. imagine...

anyway, i understand alot of the criticism in here but i'd like to repeat myself: i soloed a high lvl survival yesterday for 1 1/2 hours and it was easily the most fun i ever had with this frame. it genuinely felt like playing a game. so my personal verdict (and kinda to my own suprise): this rework / nerf if you will is a success!

thank you!

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[at35z]

All the new Blade Storm needs is a target counter on the HUD.

 

Just so I don't waste my precious time using my 4 merely to kill 1 or 2 targets after my team took care of the rest I previously marked.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Since duration smoke screen is now a more solid reality than it ever was, to make it stand out and be something different than just a lower duration invis compared to loki, the smoke augment should be changed, it should make nearby allies invisible by default, and the augment add something else, or some kind of interaction with bs or whatever else...perhaps give an insta all round 1st mark so if u wanna mark everything 3x you do it faster or i dunno, think of something i'm not being too creative at the moment lol.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

4 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I expected this when you first unveiled the changes, but I wanted to withhold judgment until I had gotten some hands-on time with them. Now that I have, I feel vindicated.

The changes to Blade Storm are utterly non-compelling. The marking mechanic is only a more cumbersome version of the initial target requirement Ash had before. It does not make the ability seem more "interactive" or flexible in any way. It's the same old Blade Storm that takes longer to cast. Dynamic target acquisition? Blade Storm already had that in the form of area estimation. The ability is a cutscene/slideshow? It still is. Nothing has really changed except it takes longer to cast. Not in terms of meaningful impact on game-play.

I'll admit that it is potentially useful to be able to specify exactly which targets are caught in a cast, but that is only relevant when there are few enough enemies around that a cast isn't really warranted next to something like, say, Fatal Teleport. If there are crowds of enemies, where Blade Storm excels, it is nigh impossible to make precise enough selections without some unintended targets getting roped in.

The rest of the changes are decent, but long overdue.

Going back to the subject of Fatal Teleport, this augment now outclasses Blade Storm in almost every way  provided a decent melee weapon is equipped.

• Better damage output (and Finisher Damage levels any scaling advantage the BS bleed procs may have given it).
• Better potential cost efficiency (50% refund on kill, coupled with efficiency boosts and the fact that in all likelihood only one cast will be necessary per enemy)
• Better precision (you target each enemy individually)
• Better casting speed (no need for a double button press)

Seriously, why should anyone who has Fatal Teleport use Blade Storm anymore, except for enemies that aren't affected by Fatal Teleport? I'm not usually one to support the whole "this is trash" mentality... but when the differences in performance are this great and the two abilities are functionally identical, what is the point of the under-performing ability?

I don't spend most of my time playing Ash, so perhaps someone who knows him to a greater depth will be able to provide insight regarding some benefits to the BS changes that I missed. 

Even so, this change feels like a formulaic change for the sake of change, not for the sake of improving the skill within the lens of Warframe's game-play. I think it would be more interesting to try something unique: Turn Blade Storm into a buff that reduces (perhaps eliminates) the energy cost of Ash's other skills for the duration, and enhances their offensive power while active. For example,

• Shuriken becomes ranged damage and CC output
• Smoke Screen becomes an enemy debuff in addition to invisibility
• Teleport fills the role of the individual Blade Storm attacks a la Fatal Teleport

I'm not going to address the specifics of how to do that here, but the benefits of this change are plentiful:

• Blade Storm is no longer cumbersome to cast, and fits the pace of combat more closely.
• Blade Storm is taken out of direct competition with Teleport.
• Players are still required to be active (no more "cutscene" style Blade Storm)
• Players can interrupt it at any time to support their team
• It brings the improvements to Ash's other skills out where they shine. Instead of just "building for Blade Storm," players will be able to build for his full kit.

Just my two cents.

Love this, great post. couldn't have said it better myself 

[StealthyCARNAGE]

5 hours ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

And how about you? I see no feedback from you without touching other skill besides bladestorm, youre not improving anything, youre making it worse.

Ash BS since the first introduction was all about teleporting everywhere stabbing enemies, AT FIRST, he has no clones at all, then DE acknowledge that the animation takes too long, so they added clones to speed it up. Now people complaining the animation being too long, lack of players participation, DE rework it again. This time by only letting ash do the first attack on each enemies (1st mark) & with targeting feature. But now people complaining again, wanting ash to not participate in BS at all.

Without including ash in BS cutscene, BS essentially become a version of ember's WOF, even worse, BS is dealing finisher dmg that ignores shield & armor, even mesa, oberon & banshee cant move in their ult.

So TL;DR

If you want ash to be out of his BS at all, then there will be a severe damage nerf to compensate it, or you gotta put feedback of a new ult, no more BS...

That actually makes no sense at all. For one, I have no clue why you're so insistent on not touching his other abilities. All of them could use some touching up. Be it visually or functionally. The visual change to FT would also serve to further differentiate between using the teleport-finisher combo normally and using the augment. Also, a lot of people are complaining FT sometimes not working at all. Assuming that's some weird collision issue, heck, that might even fix it. Nor did I suggest anything that would make him functionally worse. You're talking out of your arse there. Unless the inane logic you're using is 'change = bad'?

Your second "argument" here is complete nonsense, also. Abilities like Ember's WoF run passively and don't require you to manually pick out individual targets. So with Ember, all you do is cast it and everything within range is affected. While with Ash, you have to aim at and mark each target one by one, then cast it. That you can even think of comparing the two is plain ludicrous. It's like comparing a sniper rifle with a carpet bomber.

As for your last point, well, it's true that they can't move during their casting animation. But again, they also don't require you to mark individual targets one by one. Nor do their casting animations take nearly as long.

[Racter]

After playing around with it more tonight, I found a few situations in which the reworked Bladestorm worked well (better than old, even). These were all, without exception, flat or nearly flat rooms with long sight lines, where I could basically be a knockoff Peacemaker with more range but greatly reduced damage and kill speed. After thinking about it for a bit, I don't totally hate the new Bladestorm in theory, but it needs several key mechanical changes to be a useful ability again. I don't at all mind the cost per mark component, and even at substantially less than max efficiency I had no issues with running out.

First and foremost, I often found myself with no idea whether I was in mark mode or not. With all the effects going on all the time, that little puff of smoke often gets fades from my focus and I have a hard time differentiating the two states. I would suggest changing it to hold to activate mark mode, tap to start attacking.

Secondly, I think the three mark system needs to go. There are very few situations where one attack (or, one attack and the bleed) is not enough, and in those times even three would generally be of no benefit, resulting in basically just wasted time/effort/energy. I think I see what they were going for here but it just doesn't pan out in actual game play IMO. I'd rather see the base damage increased 1.5-2x and the stacking marks removed. I also think the base attack speed is just too slow. I run Quickening + Fury and even this feels too slow. I had a friend bring a max strength Valkyr (150% melee attack speed increase) and in combination with Quickening + Fury this felt much more reasonable. I don't mind running a melee build specifically for Ash, as I already use a dagger with attack speed mods for his 3, but considering the loss of efficiency in terms of energy per kill and total damage per energy spent, it doesn't seem unreasonable to speed things up.

Thirdly, I think the individual mark system requires a bit too much precision to really fit the pace of the rest of the game. I think a targeting reticle (similar to Peacemaker, but a fixed size maybe .5-.25 as big as default, and far less visually noisy) would solve this entirely. I also think this could use a bit of x-ray/punch thru, so an enemy crouched behind a rail or even just directly behind another enemy still gets marked. Considering the height differences of the enemies and constant elevation changes on most tiles I feel like this (in combination with my first point) would greatly streamline the marking process, and with my second point streamlining the attacking process, would lead to the ability being more fun and functional, with less wasted time and frustrations.

Finally, I'd like to see the base duration of Smoke Screen increased to 10s, up from 8s.

 

One must consider that the current iteration requires two button presses and multiple sweeps to mark targets, when you could do far more damage far more quickly just holding down LMB and sweeping over the same crowd with even a low tier gun. If you are reasonably close (IE, most every tile in the game) just using a melee is far, far more effective than this version of Bladestorm. I'm not against it getting changed, I wasn't even particularly found of the old version but what we have now is... a joke, for lack of a better term.

 

TL;dr Hold to start marking, tap to attack, hold again to stop marking. Scrap the three mark system, buff the base damage by 1.5-2x and attack speed by ~1.5. Add a (small, non-intrusive) targeting reticle along the lines of Peacemaker to limit the amount of random mouse sweeping we have to do to mark things on slightly different elevations. Keep the cost per marked target the same.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Racter

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

4 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I expected this when you first unveiled the changes, but I wanted to withhold judgment until I had gotten some hands-on time with them. Now that I have, I feel vindicated.

The changes to Blade Storm are utterly non-compelling. The marking mechanic is only a more cumbersome version of the initial target requirement Ash had before. It does not make the ability seem more "interactive" or flexible in any way. It's the same old Blade Storm that takes longer to cast. Dynamic target acquisition? Blade Storm already had that in the form of area estimation. The ability is a cutscene/slideshow? It still is. Nothing has really changed except it takes longer to cast. Not in terms of meaningful impact on game-play.

I'll admit that it is potentially useful to be able to specify exactly which targets are caught in a cast, but that is only relevant when there are few enough enemies around that a cast isn't really warranted next to something like, say, Fatal Teleport. If there are crowds of enemies, where Blade Storm excels, it is nigh impossible to make precise enough selections without some unintended targets getting roped in.

The rest of the changes are decent, but long overdue.

Going back to the subject of Fatal Teleport, this augment now outclasses Blade Storm in almost every way  provided a decent melee weapon is equipped.

• Better damage output (and Finisher Damage levels any scaling advantage the BS bleed procs may have given it).
• Better potential cost efficiency (50% refund on kill, coupled with efficiency boosts and the fact that in all likelihood only one cast will be necessary per enemy)
• Better precision (you target each enemy individually)
• Better casting speed (no need for a double button press)

Seriously, why should anyone who has Fatal Teleport use Blade Storm anymore, except for enemies that aren't affected by Fatal Teleport? I'm not usually one to support the whole "this is trash" mentality... but when the differences in performance are this great and the two abilities are functionally identical, what is the point of the under-performing ability?

I don't spend most of my time playing Ash, so perhaps someone who knows him to a greater depth will be able to provide insight regarding some benefits to the BS changes that I missed. 

Even so, this change feels like a formulaic change for the sake of change, not for the sake of improving the skill within the lens of Warframe's game-play. I think it would be more interesting to try something unique: Turn Blade Storm into a buff that reduces (perhaps eliminates) the energy cost of Ash's other skills for the duration, and enhances their offensive power while active. For example,

• Shuriken becomes ranged damage and CC output
• Smoke Screen becomes an enemy debuff in addition to invisibility
• Teleport fills the role of the individual Blade Storm attacks a la Fatal Teleport

I'm not going to address the specifics of how to do that here, but the benefits of this change are plentiful:

• Blade Storm is no longer cumbersome to cast, and fits the pace of combat more closely.
• Blade Storm is taken out of direct competition with Teleport.
• Players are still required to be active (no more "cutscene" style Blade Storm)
• Players can interrupt it at any time to support their team
• It brings the improvements to Ash's other skills out where they shine. Instead of just "building for Blade Storm," players will be able to build for his full kit.

Just my two cents.

@[DE] read this. 

[SakuraiKaze]

Here are some of my thoughts on the current reworked Bladestorm (BS) and some suggestion on how I feel it should be improved.

Some of the main problems I faced during high level missions, are the huge amount of energy required to cast BS as well as the time required to 'mark' the enemies. The reason why I mentioned high level missions is because that is where marking the enemy once just won't be enough to kill it.

I understand that the main reason for the rework is to make BS more 'active' in terms of gameplay instead of just simply tapping '4' and watch it play out.

In my opinion, I feel that the 'marking' system is actually more fun to play with as it makes you look for the enemy instead of doing it automatically for you just as the old BS does, it also allows for more control on the targets which you want to attack.

However, the time required to mark each target thrice and the energy required (even when stealthed) kind of makes it really time and cost inefficient.

Here is how I would adjust BS so that it will be strong yet still maintain the active playstyle:

- The marking system should remain as it is, however each enemy can only be marked once, up to a maximum of 18 enemies.
- Re-casting BS will cause Ash to teleport and assaults the marked targets (with 2 clones) with a maximum of 18 attacks. Each marked target can only be attacked up to 3 times.

Example 1: Ash marks 18 targets and proceed to use BS. Each target will get hit once (including clones) since he only has 18 attacks.

Example 2: Ash marks 3 targets and proceed to use BS. Each target will get hit 3 times even though as has 18 attacks. This is also to prevent Ash from getting 'stuck' on a single enemy such as an Ancient Healer.

Long story short, it is similar to the old BS except that Ash have to manually mark the targets and each target cannot be hit more than 3 times. And of course, energy cost will depend on the number of marked targets.

All of the above mentioned are just my take on how to improve the current BS. Any construction critisms are welcomed.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

15 minutes ago, S.C. said:

That actually makes no sense at all. For one, I have no clue why you're so insistent on not touching his other abilities. All of them could use some touching up. Be it visually or functionally. The visual change to FT would also serve to further differentiate between using the teleport-finisher combo normally and using the augment. Also, a lot of people are complaining FT sometimes not working at all. Assuming that's some weird collision issue, heck, that might even fix it. Nor did I suggest anything that would make him functionally worse. You're talking out of your arse there. Unless the inane logic you're using is 'change = bad'?

Your second "argument" here is complete nonsense, also. Abilities like Ember's WoF run passively and don't require you to manually pick out individual targets. So with Ember, all you do is cast it and everything within range is affected. While with Ash, you have to aim at and mark each target one by one, then cast it. That you can even think of comparing the two is plain ludicrous. It's like comparing a sniper rifle with a carpet bomber.

As for your last point, well, it's true that they can't move during their casting animation. But again, they also don't require you to mark individual targets one by one. Nor do their casting animations take nearly as long.

First, Im not against you touching other skills, im against you if you do THAT bcos of other skill, in this case: BS, as long as the reason you wanna change FT bcos of BS animation, i will disagree to it. 

Second, i said a version of embers wof, not essentially the same with embers wof. These 2 ults allow you to run around while using them: while you dont need to mark each target with wof, the skill still has a range, if you wanna kill something with it, you gotta move near the target, its almost like "picking your target". And as i said, In terms of damage, oberon, ember, banshees ult are way below BS (finishers, ignoring shields & armors, bleeding). Ash can move during BS targeting, but until he perform BS, he didnt really do any damage with the skill & when he does, he cant move, just like those frames i mention before.

And third, you still cant give anymore feedback regarding BS or other skill without separating them individually. I already said that if you dont want ash animation on BS, then you better come up with a new skill which is not BS at all. Just keep in mind, Ash hidden blades are not just cosmetic, its his signature weapons, like exalted blade or wukong iron staff.

[Toran]

When I read the first positive comments, I don't think they actually tested it.

It's not a very good rework, to be honest it's as poorly done as Saryn's. Why hide the same mechanism behind imposed and awkward complexity? You obviously don't want Blade Storm and you made it impractical enough that I don't want it any longer either. Why not scrap Blade Storm and come up with something completely new?

+ Smokescreen: a very welcome improvement.
+ Teleport: nice addition. Finisher is a bit of a hinderance
- Bladestorm: too inefficient, too time-consuming. I'd prefered a new skill instead.

Current build after patch:

• Steel Charge
• Coaction Drift
• Rush
• Primed Continuity
• Primed Flow
• Quickthinking
• Rage
• Constitution
• Streamline
• Vitality

Basically, I dumped Power (and Bladestorm) and focus on duration and survivability instead. I do manual Bladestorms now: I teleport to bigger groups, try to avoid the finisher (sooo slow) and slash em to pieces with a blood rush/berserker galatine. With harder enemies I use Smokescreen from time to time till Naramon kicks in.

Suggestions:
Please remove Finisher from Teleport or make it much faster. It's not much of a help anyway.
Rework Blade Storm again, better: come up with something new

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Toran

[Wiverio]

3 hours ago, K4r4k4s4 said:

That delay was always there. Sometimes its barely noticable but sometimes it lasts couple of seconds (lags and micro-freezes). Because of this delay it's difficult to survive on high-level missions crowded with mobs (100+) even with old bladestorm. And yes, after performing teleport / fatal teleport it is also a small window where Ash is already vulnerable but control not yet returned.

D'oh. Haven't noticed it before for some reason...
And here I though it would get tweaked somehow. Guess it's kinda stupid to expect it to happen with something that "was always there" and is primarily affected by laggs and freezes xD Thank you for the answer though :3
Too bad his smoke screen mostly doesn't cover up the animation's time... Don't even know if it's worth it to get into duration, already have 8sec or so for reviving and survival capsule usage. Meh.
pls DE lower the energy costs for Bladestorm so I could invest in some smoke screen, thanks.

[StealthyCARNAGE]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

First, Im not against you touching other skills, im against you if you do THAT bcos of other skill, in this case: BS, as long as the reason you wanna change FT bcos of BS animation, i will disagree to it. 

Second, i said a version of embers wof, not essentially the same with embers wof. These 2 ults allow you to run around while using them: while you dont need to mark each target with wof, the skill still has a range, if you wanna kill something with it, you gotta move near the target, its almost like "picking your target". And as i said, In terms of damage, oberon, ember, banshees ult are way below BS (finishers, ignoring shields & armors, bleeding). Ash can move during BS targeting, but until he perform BS, he didnt really do any damage with the skill & when he does, he cant move, just like those frames i mention before.

And third, you still cant give anymore feedback regarding BS or other skill without separating them individually. I already said that if you dont want ash animation on BS, then you better come up with a new skill which is not BS at all. Just keep in mind, Ash hidden blades are not just cosmetic, its his signature weapons, like exalted blade or wukong iron staff.

Whether or not a change would be related to another change is utterly irrelevant. And whether or not you personally have a problem with it is something I couldn't care less about. Nor is it an in any way viable argument.

And no, these two are still two completely different types of abilities. It's like you can't tell the difference between an ability that requires you to aim, and has a line of sight limitation and an ability that doesn't requires you to aim, has no line of sight limitation, is timer based and has a semi-passive area of affect. Was my 'sniper rifle' vs 'carpet bomber' analogy still too difficult for you?

As for your third "point", of course I can. And there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop me from doing it. Nor do you have the right to try and order me around.  "I don't like it!" isn't a valid argument. It's an a opinion. An opinion I can and will choose to ignore.

[Soridian]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

You were in simulacrum, somehow a controlled environment. :(

In real game, your team may kill enemies you marked already :(

In real game, things unexpected happen, such as enemies spawn or other stuff. :(

In real game, you may mark an enemy and by the time you wanna BS him he is out your sight,,,  :(

in real game a lot of variables.

Goodbye Ash, time for you to retire

Unsure if sarcasm considering the original quote or serious.....if the latter, this sort of comment isn't really helpful. If not... end with /s!

For In-game examples, I've been using the new ash rework on tycho runs on lua:

Iv had no issues with kill steals on marked targets as iv been cherry picking those that are out of the way or high priority targets like bursa's.

Energy costs are fine, I run with 125 efficiency and zenurik, more than manage-able.

Rework pairs brilliantly with a mellee focused load out but I'm also using soma prime for mob clearing  but I'm still marking and using Bladestorm for the ones who went behind cover or just awkward to hit.

Beetween teleport, smoke bomb and Bladestorm to help maintain high combo counter and some extra easy to do damage + slash procs, I'm generally making most of the sentient kills without taking too much damage. 

I think the new ash requires a bit of  change to gameplay as its not really worth going into a room stealthed and Marking everyone. Energy costs seem to try to dissuade that play style and seem best used as a hit and run style or targeting mobs off to the side or coming up in the distance to control the flow. Personally, I find ash a more fast paced frame now as I'm not constantly utilising the one skill. I don't think he's perfect and there's been some good examples of how to make his skill set flow better such shuriken being better tied/Bladestorm animation changes/ways to cancel marks talk but overall i don't see how people can describe him as ruined.

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Soridian

[aerosoul1337]

Ash -> trASH;
EMBER- > dismEMBERed next...

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 hour ago, S.C. said:

Whether or not a change would be related to another change is utterly irrelevant. And whether or not you personally have a problem with it is something I couldn't care less about. Nor is it an in any way viable argument.

And no, these two are still two completely different types of abilites. It's like you can't tell the difference between an ability that requires you to aim, and has a line of sight limitation and an ability that doesn't requires you to aim, has no line of sight limitation, is timer based and has a semi-passive area of affect. Was my 'sniper rifle' vs 'carpet bomber' analogy still too difficult for you?

As for your third "point", of course I can. And there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop me from doing it. Nor do you have the right to try and order me around.  "I don't like it!" isn't a valid argument. It's an a opinion. An opinion I can and will choose to ignore.

1) typical answer when a person is already lost in an argument "i couldnt care less" ,"irrelevant"

2) i never said they were the same. I clearly said theyre not essentially the same, unless my argument is too complex for you to understand

3) all talk no action, "off course i can" but no proof...noone's trying to tell you what to do & i never said "i dont like it".

Im done arguing with you, come back when you really can argue properly... 

In the meantime, i'll just post some more feedback about ash rework.

Edited November 29, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[StealthyCARNAGE]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

1) typical answer when a person is already lost in an argument "i couldnt care less" ,"irrelevant"

2) i never said they were the same. I clearly said theyre not essentially the same, unless my argument is too complex for you to understand

3) all talk no action, "off course i can" but no proof...noone's trying to tell you what to do & i never said "i dont like it".

Im done arguing with you, come back when you really can argue properly... 

In the meantime, i'll just post some more feedback about ash rework.

Indeed, your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. It's like I'm talking to a brickwall. I mean heck, you don't even seem to understand what a proper argument is. Or what the meaning of the words you're using is. It's kind of, hmm, disheartening.

But you know, you actually did they say they're "essentially the same". Look here:

8 hours ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Without including ash in BS cutscene, BS essentially become a version of ember's WOF, even worse, BS is dealing finisher dmg that ignores shield & armor, even mesa, oberon & banshee cant move in their ult.

Almost adorable the way you keep trying to use words only to end up clumsily flailing about. And even if you, let's say, "miswrote", it makes even less sense to bring that up as a comparison.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

7 minutes ago, S.C. said:

~snip~

essentially become a VERSION of ember's wof =/= essentially become ember's wof

And really? Do you have to insult me like that? Do you have to display such toxicity in this forum? Where's your feedback?

[Zanchak]

If anyone wants feedback taken seriously, they should probably stop derailing it for everyone else with their personal need to have the last say.

Please? Cheers

[JFSIMON]

I mean , hold 4 to switch between old and new versions of Bladestorm .

Since some people like old one while others like new one , 

this may be a solution to make all people satisfied .

 

I don't know if this is a good or bad idea ,

whatever , just for reference .

Edited November 30, 2016 by JFSIMON

[Dragazer]

Or we could just admit Bladestorm is still just as bad as it was b4, but even worse

• Still a non-interactive cinematic press 4 for cutscene
• Still leaves enemies invulnerable
• Now drains a shtton of energy (Before: 100 energy for 18 targets, Now: 270 energy for 18 targets or 215 while smoke screened)
• Now only limits 3 attacks per target while each attack costs 15 energy (Before your clones attacked targets  until they died with no additional energy cost)

They fixed none of the core issues but slapped on unwarranted nerfs

Lets just scrap the idea and start with something new.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Dragazer

[Insizer]

That would defy the entire purpose of the revisit...

The old version isn't coming back. Deal. with. it.

[Dragazer]

3 hours ago, Toran said:

When I read the first positive comments, I don't think they actually tested it.

It's not a very good rework, to be honest it's as poorly done as Saryn's. Why hide the same mechanism behind imposed and awkward complexity? You obviously don't want Blade Storm and you made it impractical enough that I don't want it any longer either. Why not scrap Blade Storm and come up with something completely new?

+ Smokescreen: a very welcome improvement.
+ Teleport: nice addition. Finisher is a bit of a hinderance
- Bladestorm: too inefficient, too time-consuming. I'd prefered a new skill instead.

Current build after patch:

• Steel Charge
• Coaction Drift
• Rush
• Primed Continuity
• Primed Flow
• Quickthinking
• Rage
• Constitution
• Streamline
• Vitality

Basically, I dumped Power (and Bladestorm) and focus on duration and survivability instead. I do manual Bladestorms now: I teleport to bigger groups, try to avoid the finisher (sooo slow) and slash em to pieces with a blood rush/berserker galatine. With harder enemies I use Smokescreen from time to time till Naramon kicks in.

Suggestions:
Please remove Finisher from Teleport or make it much faster. It's not much of a help anyway.
Rework Blade Storm again, better: come up with something new

 

Agreed about the Blade Storm but, about the finishers, 

I think it would be much better to map finishers to a different key like the context button "x"

[Dragazer]

19 hours ago, Vendalkin said:

I'm almost 100% willing to bet that 90% of the people who like the changes don't main Ash and are happy about him getting nerfed because they don't like playing with them.