Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Jin_Kazama]

On 12/9/2016 at 6:16 PM, Drufo said:

Then people would always use the hold 4 version, and DE clearly don't want the clones to do the work 

not necessarily, when your doing it your invulnerable, and zenurik/health regen stuff still work during the animation

[LAWD]

Well the rework is great, may we see what will b added to it to especially change that camera motion. I just have a few issues with it, such as I get teleported to random places in a map while bs is active. And at times get sent back in the map suddenly, another issue I have is its kind buggy when you use transference after bs, ash would randomly attack an enemy you haven't selected or even if you haven't activated bs.

One thing that could be changed is that camera motion, it's really upsetting and old fashioned

 

[Hans.Yulian]

Uh.... sorry for say this, but i think this rework is a total nerf.... i saw many people in reddit and even some youtubers complained about this and i never see any people playing ash anymore since the rework. I only see them in the day of the rework and never anymore after that. I feel so sorry for people who play ash, i hope they dont quit the game because of this...

Actually i prefer the original plan where ash ultimate will be changed to channeling and having ash clones to do the bladestorm as per:

"We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting."

Actually making the ash ultimate to be channeling and having some ash clones to do bladestorm will be good enough, since most likely 1 clone can only attack 1 enemy at once, and 1 attack takes like 1 seconds, it's already time consuming enough. Especially if we put like 10 energy per second drain as initial, it will make the energy depleted quickly and ash wont be able to sustain all the time.

Or, make energy consumption grow by x energy per seconds from 2.5 to 15 just like valkyr, it will make people still able to press 4 then do something else or even use other abilities and shoot.

[LAWD]

Another issue or bug I have had is after using bladestorm, and I use quick melee. Ash will go into bladestorm animation and kill enemy, even though I haven't activated it

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by LAWD

[UrielColtan]

On 12/13/2016 at 2:17 PM, Nazrethim said:

I present you Tear Gas:

Now let's just convince DE to allow this baby on PvE loadouts (like, pretty much almost all other conclave mods)

Confusion status would be better. Ash's 2 will be too much like Radial Blind with that and blinding enemies is too redundant with being invisible on top..

Edited December 15, 2016 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 13/12/2016 at 4:00 AM, (Xbox One)SpaceVice said:

I absolutely hate the ash "rework" you basically did nothing but nerf him. You didn't fix any of his issues, you just took the only thing that made him decent. Ash is not a stealth frame, and if he were in that league he'd be by far the worst stealth frame, seeing that he has the shortest invisibility. The only thing that made Ash different was bladestorm , and you nerfed it into oblivion and fed us a deluxe skin to try and keep up satisfied. 

Nerfs are never the answer to Warframe balancing issues. Ash is useless now, he's not stealthy, he's not deadly, he's just a shadow of his former self. I strongly think you should restore his bladestorm to its previous potency or change it to something akin to world on fire with ash clones instead of killing him and saying he's fixed.

I feel you pain, so what do you think of this as a solution? I would put bladestorm the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problem we have with bs now.

[Nazrethim]

47 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Confusion status would be better. Ash's 2 will be too much like Radial Blind with that and blinding enemies is too redundant with being invisible on top..

Well, thing is, it's a Conclave Augment, I was pointing out that DE should totally allow that one (and others) in PvE loadous. A radial blind in pve opens to Finishers, giving Smoke Screen offensive potential beyond the melee damage bonus.

Honestly I think Ash could be mostly finished with 3 tweaks:

Rising Storm: Instead of giving 3s combo counter (made redundant by Body Count and/or Drifting Contact) it should increase your combo counter by 5-10 per attack (only Ash attacks, not the clones, effectively bonus counter per enemy marked)

Teleport: a 'hold' function that teleports the player to the aimed location instead of unit and a bit more base range.

Shuriken: Make it's damage scale off the combo counter and Smoke Screen melee bonus, therefore scaling as Ash's blades grow stronger.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Nazrethim

[UrielColtan]

On 12/13/2016 at 9:39 PM, Nazrethim said:

Because you are confusing mechanics and you haven't think trough your "rework" idea, which is a problem because DE did.

To clear groups of enemies with lethal force in a situation when Teleport spam would be too slow.

It can instakill anything up to lvl 100 with a decent combo counter. Also, Ash is a melee oriented frame, you are supposed to be using a properly modded melee with him.

His 2 is an escape tool composed of a short radius stun and invisibility. Duration could use a 8>>12s buff though.

Well, Saryn needs a setup, same can be said for Mag, Frost is as sluggish compared to Ash, Rhino is full on charge frame and doesn't have Ash's killing potential, Valkyr is inmortal but has no way of clearing crowds the way Ash can, Ember falls off pretty quickly on high level while Ash just keeps killing and Nova is Nova, she actually contributes to Ash by making onemarked enemies die instantly then pop nearby dudes, saving energy. Also, nothing to contribute? Smoke Shadow cloaking, large amounts of damage, a reliable and durable frame that can carry tasks where less mobile or squishy frames would die, armor strip heavy units with Shuriken. Ash brings a lot to the table for those that know how to use him, which aren't precisely the same that bladespammed their way trough everything pre-rework

 That only happens if you mark above 20 targets and have no attack speed mod on your melee, otherwise the animation is over pretty quickly.

At that level arcane trickery doesn't even proc off bladestorm anymore compared to before, at a point where utility becomes more viable.

Maxed prime fury, still too slow when marking multiple targets, it feels as if they even made the animation, slower, and it adds even more nauseum with consecutive use. It honestly just needs to go as not only is it time consuming and boring, the cutscenes do not make Ash interactive or get rid of the screen popping DE claimed they wanted to. I don't know why you bother to mention making your melee faster or increasing the combo counter either, when that was the same situation even before this nerf. And yes, this is a nerf, DE is on a kick of nerfing any frame with any farming potential, which is the actual reason why bodies also now disappear if you manage to kill them. The likes of Equinox are next on the nerfing,  no doubt. But back to the point at hand, Eximus become real at high lvl and will constantly drain you while you are stuck in that silly cutscene,  or the ancients will constantly nerf your damage if you bother wasting energy on this in endgame missions. Thinking the controlled situation you created in the simalucrum locker room will have the same perfect outcome is a mistake. At that point blade storm, only barely edges out becoming a defensive move where you are unable to take damage in the cutscene, but at a higher cost.  You are otherwise better off relying on Fatal teleport with covert lethality and arcane trickery.

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Dear Warframe community I have decided to once and for all to make a page for all of use to vote if Ash`s bladestorm should stay the way it is or to go back to the way it was.

Me personally I don`t like the new bladestorm nerf, If I was a part of the DE team to try to think of a way to address the problems with Ash`s bladestorm I would keep it the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf. I think the animation should stay because it makes ash a ninja and it makes his 4^th ability more unique compared to other Warframes and the point of the 4^th ability is to be op as well as look op.

So all you have to do have to do on this is write YES to go back to the old bladestorm or NO to stay as it is. Please only write yes or no so DE can tally up the votes, it you want to comment about bladestorm go to this link, if you agree with my thoughts on bladestorm like this page thank you.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/725161-ash-revisited-feedback-megathread/?page=75#comment-8148504

[(PSN)skins0208]

It wasnt really a nerf because the damage is still the same. You just have to select the enemies you want to target. Thats it.

[xXDeadsinxX]

I like the new bladestorm. I just don't like the cutscene animation.

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, UrielColtan said:

Thinking the controlled situation you created in the simalucrum locker room will have the same perfect outcome is a mistake. At that point blade storm, only barely edges out becoming a defensive move where you are unable to take damage in the cutscene, but at a higher cost.  You are otherwise better off relying on Fatal teleport with covert lethality and arcane trickery.

Simulacrum? My simulacrum is Void T4 Survival. I reach 60-120min easily, at which point only oneshot bombards, crewmen and nullifiers become a problem, but only because the game at that point is trying it's best to force you out.

[Extroah]

I like the rework. Much more tactical and usefull than before.

[-BM-Mitz]

I use the melee combo counter so I only need one mark per mod to kill it with BS so I like the new one, feels cooler to use. My vote is NO, leave it as it is.

[Nazrethim]

NO

 

I like the new Bladestorm. I think DE needs to buff Rising Storm (change the +3s combo counter to +5-10 hits in the counter per enemy marked), Shuriken (make it's damage benefit from the combo counter and invisibility melee buff) and give Teleport a 'hold' function to teleport to a location rather than a unit

[UrielColtan]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, thing is, it's a Conclave Augment, I was pointing out that DE should totally allow that one (and others) in PvE loadous. A radial blind in pve opens to Finishers, giving Smoke Screen offensive potential beyond the melee damage bonus.

Honestly I think Ash could be mostly finished with 3 tweaks:

Rising Storm: Instead of giving 3s combo counter (made redundant by Body Count and/or Drifting Contact) it should increase your combo counter by 5-10 per attack (only Ash attacks, not the clones, effectively bonus counter per enemy marked)

Teleport: a 'hold' function that teleports the player to the aimed location instead of unit and a bit more base range.

Shuriken: Make it's damage scale off the combo counter and Smoke Screen melee bonus, therefore scaling as Ash's blades grow stronger.

I kno its a conclave mod, I'm saying simply giving Ash a confusion status augment to smokescreen or making that effect default, would be better. Teleport already opens enemies up to finishers and fatal teleport makes it more automatic while increasing that damage, that augment is just sounding more redundant,

Radial blind is also annoying untargeted and bare handed, particularly for teamates,  trying to spin attack or combo through a crowd only to be stopped to slow finish enemies, regardless of level. It works out for Excal because of the damage buff it it gives to his Exalted, so he does not have to be stuck in the slow kill animations.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

NO

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

 Shuriken (make it's damage benefit from the combo counter and invisibility melee buff) and give Teleport a 'hold' function to teleport to a location rather than a unit

^ This please.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, UrielColtan said:

I kno its a conclave mod, I'm saying simply giving Ash a confusion status augment to smokescreen or making that effect default, would be better. Teleport already opens enemies up to finishers and fatal teleport makes it more automatic while increasing that damage, that augment is just sounding more redundant,

Radial blind is also annoying untargeted and bare handed, particularly for teamates,  trying to spin attack or combo through a crowd only to be stopped to slow finish enemies, regardless of level. It works out for Excal because of the damage buff it it gives to his Exalted, so he does not have to be stuck in the slow kill animations.

If you think about it the description for smokescreen says that it blinds enemies, not stagger them.

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

gonna have to go with No, I like the new Blade Storm.

Not really a nerf, dmg output stayed the same, except now you have to aim the ability instead of P4TW. the animation can be cumbersome, but I can deal with it.

[UrielColtan]

24 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Simulacrum? My simulacrum is Void T4 Survival. I reach 60-120min easily, at which point only oneshot bombards, crewmen and nullifiers become a problem, but only because the game at that point is trying it's best to force you out.

You mean Ani survival, starting at 20-25 maybe. Lasting 60 min is not impressive in any case.

Edited December 15, 2016 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)joshw1400]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)skins0208 said:

It wasnt really a nerf because the damage is still the same. You just have to select the enemies you want to target. Thats it.

They even increased the damage of bladestorm.

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

 

 if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

I still don't understand why do people get nauseous while in Bladestorm. 

[UrielColtan]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

If you think about it the description for smokescreen says that it blinds enemies, not stagger them.

It also says his shurikens pierce enemies against walls. His smokescreen also says it simply obscures vision, to which confusion is quite fitting.

[Somethinglurks]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)skins0208 said:

It wasnt really a nerf because the damage is still the same. You just have to select the enemies you want to target. Thats it.

The nerf was the increase to energy consumption.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Get rid of the cutscene, make enemies vulnerable during BS. BS needs to be Los and should not rely on a combo counter, needs the same damage output as his 3. BS energy needs to be a 100 energy with max marks. (18)  No more marking enemies upto 3 times, now 1 mark.

Edited December 15, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Soketsu]

10 hours ago, (PS4)skins0208 said:

It wasnt really a nerf because the damage is still the same. You just have to select the enemies you want to target. Thats it.

You spend more energy per foe, you have to hope that your marked target will not being kill by an ally and you still waste your time in the kill cinetmatic, But it was not a nerf ?

just remove the cutscene, make the tageted foe vulnerable and it won't be a nerf anymore, but a rework. However ASh will stay weak with the marking system as it is right now.

YES

cause between being "balanced" and "useful" I prefer to not have useless guy in the team when we need a team

Edited December 16, 2016 by Soketsu