Riven Slots Post-19.3.2 Feedback

[Midrib]

The prices are just ridiculous imo, 1 Riven slot is equivalent in price as a Warframe slot? Why?

The riven system is not bad in my opinion but DE is handling it like S#&$ and its really annoying, First you get thro the stupid RNG that is sorties and they made it more stupid by adding Nitain\Forma instead of just removing the 2K endo. then you need to pass through 2 RNG gates that are the weapon and the actual stats, and DE decides to make it more annoying by putting Sentinel weapons in the mix. and then DE decides to limit the amount of rivens you can have. which is so counterproductive its not even funny, and the only way to get out of the limit is paying 60 plat for 3 slots?

Why? Why make a system that is supposed to allow the playerbase to be creative with old weapons so @(*()$ hard to get into and play around with?

[(PSN)Regiampiero]

19 minutes ago, Brasten said:

 

Amazon S3 AWS hosting costs are viewable as a reference point of likely server side costs in hosting the Data for Rivens. These are monthly costs based on amount of data stored and data transferred (over the Internet to players, each time they log in, or access mods/arsenal).

At a generous rate, this is about $0.021 per GB stored (per month). $0.05 per GB transferred

 

You're including profit margins in twice because DE probably stores data in their own servers. 

[Siekier]

14 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

First it was to 'enforce creativity'.

Then it was due 'server limits'.

Now its about how big your wallet is.

Yep, surprise!

Yeah, what a way to bullsh** players.

 

It's disappointing.

[Burritochu]

Wallets speak louder than words, it might be helpful to remember that if people want things to change.

[Zebiko]

Warframe slots cost plat.

Weapon slots cost plat.

Pets slots cost plat.

Now riven slots cost plat.

k.

[dembawss]

To promote creativity they said. 

[AcceptYourDeath]

I was VERY disappointed to find out Riven slots go for platinum only. Which makes me worry if we will get any free slots at all for secondary rivens soon. Could be we have to buy every capacity from now on. 

It`s not like I haven`t spent money at this game already. For what the game is overall at the moment they won`t see any money from me.

[xRufus7x]

2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

honest opinion... we should not be paying for a mod that's sole purpose is to fix an issue that shouldn't be there in the first place.  If the enemies/weapons were balanced properly we wouldn't need riven mods to make the MR fodder weapons viable.

You are assuming weapon tiering isn't intentional, which it obviously is.

[TalonBlue]

Already ignoring Riven mods. Thank you for restoring my disbelief in you DE with another reason.

[Valthryn]

Regarding Riven Mods, the largest point of contention since the release of TWW,

Are Developers even listening to us?

We've asked for:

• A cap in Kuva cost scaling, or a removal of the scaling altogether
• Increase in Riven Mod Capacity (not buying extra slots; you shouldn't have to pay the company just to have a mod in your inventory) I'd rather them just not have put in the extra slot feature in the first place, because it is justifying similar practices in the future.
• More choice in the Riven Mod system, i.e. being able to choose the weapon it goes on
• Sentinel weapons to be removed from the pool of possible weapon locks on unveiled Rivens
• Being able to retain stats of our choosing during cycling
• Being able to obtain Riven Mods from a method other than the once a day sortie at a 20% chance

We've also asked for within the last month:

• Nitain to be removed from Sorties
• Forma to be removed from Sorties
• Exilus adapters to be removed from Sorties
• Originally we asked them not to update the Sortie drop table in the first place because most people hated it, but they updated it anyways
• That's all I can remember right now

And yet, with the latest Hotfix, 19.3.2, we get this:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Riven Mod Additions/Changes/Fixes:

• For those of you who have reached the max Riven Capacity, you can now increase your Riven Capacity by purchasing additional Slots. Visit the market to get a bundle of three slots for 60 Platinum. The maximum capacity is still capped at 60 Riven Slots total for technical reasons. 
• Cycle will now prompt you to choose on next login if you crash while choosing. 
• A player cannot be traded a Riven if they are already at max capacity. 
• Cycling can now be done repeatedly without the need to close & open again.
• Fixed bug when trying to dissolve a Veiled Riven Mod
• Fixed getting locked in Riven reveal screen when pressing esc/back too early
• Fixed an issue that could cause an auto-ban for selling a Riven
• Rivens will now show the reveal screen on next login if you crash before returning to your Landing Craft

Additions:

• Added some helpful text to unacquired Quests in the Codex! 
• Added Transference Suit Energy Color for your Operator’s Abilities!

Changes:

• The Quest section of the Codex now displays prerequisites respective to each Quest, and uncompleted Quests appear blurred out!
• The number of items received from purchasing or crafting items that give more than one of it is now indicated in the UI (i.e Specter Blueprints from Syndicates, Synthesis Scanners from Simaris, etc).
• Market items that contain more than 1 copy of the item have been updated so that buying 1 will not break up the unit prices but will display total amount you will receive. Buying more than 1 will show the unit price, total price, and total amount received. 
• Quests will now be sorted in the Codex by recommended order of completion. 
• Removed the “flashlight” from Akstiletto & Akstiletto Prime for performance reasons
• Removed The New Strange as a requirement for starting Simaris dailies. 
• Explosions on enemy death caused by Vulcan Blitz and Acid Shells mods will now properly alert enemies.
• Hid Rathuum Broadcasters from Enemy Radar to avoid confusion.

Fixes:

• Fixed a couple memory leaks and offset damage triggers with Vauban’s Tesla Link Augment Mod.
• Fixed Energy Reduction Sortie Modifier not being applied to Warframes.
• Fixed Growing Power and Empowered Blades no longer working after using a Focus ability. Should also fix it not working in the Simulacrum if you have it equipped and then open the Arsenal.
• Fixed Auras applying twice when using a Focus ability.
• Fixed script error when owning certain Landing Craft skins.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when clicking on a halfway visible Chat linked text.  
• Fixed softlock when clicking Swap Images button if you don’t have any Fan Art or Fragments unlocked.
• Fixed various Loc issues.
• Fixed various issues with Chat links.
• Fixed a bug in The War Within that would make the lasers stop working in the Archwing portion.
• Fixed some Orokin and Derelict doors being inadvertently blue. 
• Fixed a bug that would prevent some players from completing a Junction after winning the battle. 
• Fixed Warframe abilities affecting Operators & switching to operator will no longer deactivate currently active abilities (still WIP with more fixes coming).
• Fixed exploit with Phoenix Renewal Augment.
• Fixed Infiltrate Augment’s speed increase infiltrating on to Focus powers. 
• Fixed a bug that would cause syndicate assassins to only attack player’s Operator.
• Fixed indestructible defense turrets being destructible on Kuva Fortress. 
• Fixed players not showing up on minimap in Relays & Maroo’s Bazaa.
• Fixed a few issues on sealab tileset.

Hotfix 19.3.2.1

• Fixed Mesa's Shooting Gallery not functioning.
• Fixed crash that could occur when deactivating a warframe ability.
• Fixed incorrect colors appearing on Sigils.
• Fixed infested Maggots continuing to feed off their victims even after being destroyed.
• Fixed dedicated server stats not tracking properly.
• Fixed loss of functionality that could occur when transferring to Operator.
• Kuva Siphon missions are now locked sooner to prevent players from joining after event has completed.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A few bug fixes and an unnecessary platinum grab.

They didn't even mention a single issue with Riven mods on the last Devstream of 2016, rather opting to discuss the impending release of secondary Rivens. Secondary Rivens don't need to be introduced into the game until we fix the Rivens that we already have and the Riven system as a whole.

This is not meant to be a stab at DE, but if changes along the lines of what has been asked for are in the works and hopefully to be slated for a release soon, it would be nice if the community was notified, that way we could at least have some closure and know that we're not being completely ignored.

If not then, at the very least, I'd like to be told that these ideas are not being considered.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Daggerpaw1

[KIREEK]

The new change sounds good to me, i bought several slots so far, if a player has the plat, why not use it.

I think it was a good decision not to make MR affect things even more and having plat to be used as a way to give more riven slots.

[kitsu]

This high cost in plat is just terrible.

And to anyone saying that they need to cost high and be limited for the server database, they should have limited kubrows and kavats a long time ago then, because it is the same thing.

[FlinttheImmortal]

3 hours ago, xRufus7x said:

I mean come on guys. This price point may be a bit high but there is no reason to make stuff up to justify your rage.

Really?  How about this:

Please read Riven Mods Devstream Workshop Post #1.  Specifically, this:

"We want to give players something unique to them that can speak to their wider Arsenal."

The word to pay attention to in the above is "give."

"Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style."

Now players have to pay to be incentivized?

Firstly, the whole thing about Rivens being an incentive to use old weapons is a lie.  And now, the statement about "giving" players that incentive is also a lie.

GG

Server storage issues be damned.  Rather than fix the problem on their end (ie. "normalize" Rivens somewhat so that they aren't insanely db intensive), because they started this mess without any idea of what trouble it would cause, the problem just gets passed onto the players...and their wallets.

Again.  GG

I know, I know.  Rivens aren't mandatory.  Again, the words "give" and "incentive" are important here.  It aboot the principle of the thing, you see.  Don't say you are going to do one thing ("give" me an "incentive" to use old weapons), and then do another (tell me to spend plat to be able to do it) because you didn't think a thing through far enough.

[GoneBlank]

The ironic thing....as people approach their 15 riven mod (free) capacity limit they will keep their soma/tonkor/dread (etc) riven mods and scrap their sub-par weapon mods. Hence, the stated original motivation of encouraging use of sub-par weapons is unlikely to succeed in the long-run.

Paying for mod slots - I still can't believe you've done that.

People who are saying....but the plat will go to storage...well that resonates with me on a similar level to saying that my taxes go to hospitals.

I don't like the Riven mod system to start with - however, if you are going to run it the data structure of a riven mod should have had a limited number of feasible attributes with a limited number of feasible values. An under-grad computer-sci student would have told you that...

[Wolfglaive]

They have no real obligation to tell us anything. They see the feedback and suggestions, whether or not they use them will be known in the future and isn't something you should let yourself be bothered by. Riven mods being changed or not isn't going to make or break the game for you or anyone else. They're a completely optional system, even if one feels like one "needs" them. People are taking them too seriously and trying to roll "godly" stats, and that's the reason why they're getting frustrated. As far as sortie rewards go, it's the same thing. Just because parts of or all of the community says "we want x" does not in any way oblige them to listen, it's their game. 

[Manyc]

TL;DR: Not even 10% of the warframe population is on the forums, they listen but 'you' have to be reasonable without looking so much only to your own bellybutton.

They do listen, but that doesn't mean they will apply every little thing we say. First our requests have to be reasonable, then discussed and if needed, which it is in most of the cases, balanced for real appliance. This is usually more vividly discussed in Design Council.

Most of the things people throw into the forums, which you say they should listen to, are just not-well-thought personal requests that aren't based in the long run consequences.

You don't have to pay to get more capacity, just don't hoard them, either sell or dissolve. Keep in mind Platinum is still obtainable through trading. The game is already free to play, don't ask them to work for free.

Choosing the weapon the Riven mod goes for is just plain mindless. Everyone knows that everyone would go first for the most op weapons, DE mentioned it's mostly meant to raise the usability of the least used weapons. You should actually be thankful the most sought after weapons are in the list at all.

Choosing which stat to keep, that's just as mindless are the previous one. Sentinel weapons? Just because you don't want any, doesn't mean nobody else wants them as well, just sell them away. And no, that's just unlucky RNG cry, there's plenty of Riven's out there already even with just 20% per day attempts. You didn't get many? Just keep trying.

About Sortie, people want short lists, but complain about always getting the cheap reward, big list, they want it small again, it's an infinite loop until they just simply start getting Legendary Cores every turn (?). You want big good juicy stuff in there, you have to have it dissolved.

[xRufus7x]

9 minutes ago, FlinttheImmortal said:

Really?  How about this:

Please read Riven Mods Devstream Workshop Post #1.  Specifically, this:

"We want to give players something unique to them that can speak to their wider Arsenal."

The word to pay attention to in the above is "give."

"Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style."

Now players have to pay to be incentivized?

Firstly, the whole thing about Rivens being an incentive to use old weapons is a lie.  And now, the statement about "giving" players that incentive is also a lie.

GG

Server storage issues be damned.  Rather than fix the problem on their end (ie. "normalize" Rivens somewhat so that they aren't insanely db intensive), because they started this mess without any idea of what trouble it would cause, the problem just gets passed onto the players...and their wallets.

Again.  GG

I know, I know.  Rivens aren't mandatory.  Again, the words "give" and "incentive" are important here.  It aboot the principle of the thing, you see.  Don't say you are going to do one thing ("give" me an "incentive" to use old weapons), and then do another (tell me to spend plat to be able to do it) because you didn't think a thing through far enough.

Really, OK. Except in this case the word give isn't what you are reading it as. The only riven mod they gave us was the one from TWW. The rest were farmed or traded for so it would seem like you are putting meaning behind a word that was never there to begin with.

Incentive in this case is pretty much code for. We have added powercreep to everything. Balance be damned(not that there was much to begin with once you get like half way through the star chart and get your first set of potatoes. They still technically do that job. You can farm out or trade for a riven mod to use on your favorite gear even if it isn't the top tier. It is inefficient as hell but the option is there.

I mean it is better than the last set of feedback because it actually touches on some of the problems with Rivens, mostly how RNG heavy their stats are but there is still a bunch of hyperbole in there.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Yeah, yeah, I know you want the best things in the game as easily as possible (lmao), but I think they make it easy enough for us, since paying is optional and you can get the most OP gear in the game regardless of that.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Riven are a cash grab, plain and simple. They want "collector" items that sell for high amounts of plat and motivates old timers to spend real money on something else than cosmetics.

Distributing them in sorties is to make efficient farming of them impossible, instead you have to rely on RNG... A first layer of rng in getting a riven (20% chance every day, meaning you should in theory get one every five day, which is a bad average)... Then there's another layer of RNG to determine what weapon and the MR requirement. Considering there's roughly 90 Primaries and Sentinel Weapons, you have a small chance of getting a riven mod for a weapon you care about. Then there's the layer of rerolling the thing randomly until it has potable stats, which takes hours of kuva farming... And that's not counting the tedium of putting multiple formas on each of these weapons to make them able to afford the inflated Riven mod costs... And now you pay for more slots, a hefty pay too (20 plat per slot, that's unnacceptable imho).

Now, DE wants to either remove Primary Riven and Replace them with Secondary Riven in sorties mere months after they were introduced , or have both at the same time... In both case, we're screwed. If Primary Riven are removed, they will raise in plat prices to absurd levels, and if both are still avialable simultaneously, this will dillute the pool of possible riven even further... Imagine how fun it will be to try and get a Dread Riven when you're have one chance out of 300 possible mods for primary/secondary/melee weapons. You'll have no choice to purchase it from trade chat at inflated prices... That's their plan,I guess... Kinda like Arcanes...

Worse part it, it's pretty clear that most people don't particularly like Riven mods to begin with. Getting them is a chore (sorties are boring and you can't farm them), getting Kuva is booring (repeating the same kuva syphon routine over and over gets old extremely fast) and overall, the effort required to get a mod you want, reroll it like you want, forma your weapon is simply no fun at all. It also breaks any semblance of balance this game had, making mastery fodder guns even less likely to be used by players once they get riven for weapons that kick &#!... The fact that , after the lukewarm reception of Primary Riven, DE is anxious to release Secondary and Melee riven makes it clear to me they don't care about balancing, fun or anyhing other than making plat off us.

You know what that reminds me of ... Old Destiny... God I hated being forced to do a stupid raid every week and pray to RNjesus. I've been doing sorties every day since they were out on PS4 and I got 4000 Endo, 2000 Endo , 2000 Endo , 2000 Endo and a Greater Zenurik Lens.... It's not fun whatsoever to log in every day to get a chance of getting a riven mod for a weapon you like and be rewarded by endo.

As a MR23, I've never been so close to quitting the game. A whole year of waiting for a quest that was over in less than an hour, a new grind intensive system that's a cash grab and no new meaningful content to keep me occupied, why am I playing this game again ?

Edited December 14, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[xRufus7x]

"We" meaning I speak for everyone and DE has no choice but to comply. I mean, I agree with a fair amount of these points but still.

[redux1031]

2 hours ago, Brasten said:

Now the IMO post not part of numbers and math

In my opinion the current setup of the Riven Mod system itself is a big ball of dried flaming seaweed. It does not meet its design goals or offer a satisfactory experience. To reiterate points I've posted multiple times since Rivens launched...

• Kuva Costs need to be capped (40 re-roll or 5 hours of constant Kuva farming at the most)
• Control over stat rolls
  • Using other resources to lock in/out Stat adjustment types, and adjust numbers.
• Ability to swap Rivens to a different weapon (Named)
  • Again using other Resources, possibly based on blueprint costs of the weapon being switched to... and other factors
• Option to Transmute 4 Rivens into 1 Unveiled Riven
  • for a total reset.

If these things are done to the Riven system... then 8 Plat per Riven Slot would seem like are more equitable price. Not the 20 plat for this clunker of an extremely premature and under-developed system.

The current Riven system fails to proved enough Player Side control to eventually arrive at targeted boosts needed by very under performing weapons. And they miss the opportunity to create an effective Resource Sink, to start bleeding off those millions of Nano Spore and Control Modules. 

This! this is what i want DE to think about.... is kinda kill my need or desire to play warframe more... 2k hour into this game and also buy some of prime access to just because i really like this game.... but since riven mod come out and the only way is to get it by sortie and trade.. still ok to me even though i only get  endo endo endo and look lens! also nitain...  i am 33 years old family man who work in shift sometimes 12 hour shift can get 100+ nitain in alert... alert!!!!! 
But that not the main issue here...
the thing i wanna say is:

• Kuva Costs need to be capped (40 re-roll or 5 hours of constant Kuva farming at the most) This really need to be done....

I farm like 100k kuva with resource booster and the roll of each riven is getting ridiculous! 

WHY? coz i get S#&$/bad stat all over.... this is not even on good weapon riven mod! example panthera.......

• Control over stat rolls
  • Using other resources to lock in/out Stat adjustment types, and adjust numbers.

We should be able to lock stats. Please.. you all know why.... i just wanna use my braton prime again in high level mission....

So i totally agree with this suggestion!

Thank you 

regards

old player but young at heart

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

The whole server space issue seems bogus to me. It's mods with four random stats, not thousands of lines of complex code or anything...

Besides , maybe DE should have thought about this server issue before releasing Riven mods.

It's even more dishonest when you take into account the fact that we're supposed to get Secondary and Melee Riven sooner than later. Are we really going to have 15 slots when there's litterally 300 different weapons in the game ? Are we going to have to pay 60 plat every time we want to have three more rivens ? If server space is such an issue, why release more ?

Honestly, if your server can't handle people having 300 different riven mods, don't release riven mods for 300 different weapons, plain and simple. Either improve your riven code so they take less space on the server, or keep them solely for Primary Weapons... And it's dishonest to make a cool system where you're supposed to get mods to make bad weapons better, yet limit your space to keep such mods in your inventory.

Edited December 14, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[xRufus7x]

3 hours ago, Brasten said:

Now the IMO post not part of numbers and math

In my opinion the current setup of the Riven Mod system itself is a big ball of dried flaming seaweed. It does not meet its design goals or offer a satisfactory experience. To reiterate points I've posted multiple times since Rivens launched...

• Kuva Costs need to be capped (40 re-roll or 5 hours of constant Kuva farming at the most)
• Control over stat rolls
  • Using other resources to lock in/out Stat adjustment types, and adjust numbers.
• Ability to swap Rivens to a different weapon (Named)
  • Again using other Resources, possibly based on blueprint costs of the weapon being switched to... and other factors
• Option to Transmute 4 Rivens into 1 Unveiled Riven
  • for a total reset.

If these things are done to the Riven system... then 8 Plat per Riven Slot would seem like are more equitable price. Not the 20 plat for this clunker of an extremely premature and under-developed system.

The current Riven system fails to proved enough Player Side control to eventually arrive at targeted boosts needed by very under performing weapons. And they miss the opportunity to create an effective Resource Sink, to start bleeding off those millions of Nano Spore and Control Modules. 

I agree with everything here except maybe weapon swapping. Pretty sure we would just end up with thousands of Synoid Symulor and Tonkor rivens then. On the other hand, the sheer number of weapons we have will make it pretty RNG intensive. Maybe make it so we can chose a weapon class like snipers, burst rifles, launchers, automatics, bows.

[polarity]

Put it this way:  With all the re-rolls and kuva farming you'd have to do, how long is going to take you to get 15 Rivens that are worth keeping, without spending plat to buy them?

I do agree on the poor database optimisation though.

Edited December 14, 2016 by polarity

[NonDice]

Unless you send them more death threat I don't think they'll have to comply with anything, unless they're losing player extremely fast, which as you can see is not happening as long as these kind of changes still getting made.