HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

DE could have added any node that is owned by infested outside of derelict as a drop area plus add MS to the corrupted ancient drop table as they spawn in the void and from fissures

[Malkav42]

Why does the Hema cost so much? It just seems out of line with most research. We have a small clan and some have just said screw it and bought the thing with plat. This leads to them not wanting to help supply the research. However my worry is that future weapons may require it to research down the line.

Is this the plan DE? Make it such a ridiculous cost that people say screw it and buy it with Plat? If not could you please fix the cost of research so it is more in line with other research costs?

[Keiiken]

They have said in Dev streams that the cost was intended to be manageable by clans with a majority of active members. While in the past the have catered to the fact so many clans had high inactive membership, now that doesn't need to be the case because clans can downsize.

I see it not as a move to force us to buy stuff with plat but maybe to consider what membership in a clan really means.
 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Lots of discussion about this already happened and the conclusion was that the costs wont be changed. Fair or not this is the situation.

[xS0nico]

With tradings i actually be able to get it...and...it sucks.
Is not even worth it spend Traded Platinum or time, or even "flame" about it. It's not P2W (as some people actually say), it's not OP as a Tonkor, Rakta Cernos, or other primary...it's just, average and not worth.


But i guess that what they aiming was clan activity, overall. Just...not so well.

[Malkav42]

Ahh I see, it was a means to make it so Clans are only for the hardcore and those of us who are not hardcore will stop trying to craft stuff.

I guess we could just put in the farming time and then sell access to the clan so people can get a copy of the BP. That sounds like a great way to foster community!

 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I run a clan composed entirely of me, with research done on several things (but not nearly all, I'm just one man for God's sake!), and I just checked my inventory and found that I have a whole fifteen mutagen samples. Despite the fact that you can easily get 500 samples per Derelict run*, I ain't got time for that S#&$. 

I figured my best course of action was to simply stop wanting the Hema, so that's what I did.

 

 

* This is not true. This is an alternative fact.

[Ciaus]

On 2/16/2017 at 5:33 PM, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

DE could have added any node that is owned by infested outside of derelict as a drop area plus add MS to the corrupted ancient drop table as they spawn in the void and from fissures

This would be a really logical solution as it fits thematically and means you aren't grinding the *same* tileset and missions, and getting the stuff from passive play becomes realistic. Like with detonite. 

[John89brensen]

Is it just me or other threads keep getting merged into this one?

Edited February 19, 2017 by John89brensen

[wswd009]

speedva plus hydroid plus nekros in ods

30min 60 samples for each of us

the cost is great idea dont change it DE

you winner hahaha

[ChuckMaverick]

24 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Is it just me or other threads keep getting merged into this one?

I haven't noticed it lately, but it's quite possible.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as the content was largely the same topic (I have seen some very odd merges where the threads weren't related at all except a couple of key words).

[ensignvidiot]

The following link is to the Warframe subreddit where a player details the process of starting a brand new "satelliteclan" for the express purposes of having research completly finished.

 

In essense, a player in an alliance maintains a small clan for the EXTREMELY low cost of research. The members swap between the "main" clan and the "satellite" clan as needed for the blueprints.

 

The logic behind this is that most veteran players (people who have been actively playing Warframe for over 2-3 years) have MORE than enough stockpiled resources to instantly create a tiny dojo for the purposes of research. 

 

Most dont, because (like me) they have inactive members that plat once a month or so that they don't want to kick, or don't wish to downsize a larger clan for whatever reason. 

 

I will let the original creator elaborate further here:

As a veteran player, I explored an alternative option for the Hema:

 

 

I personally believe that this alternative solution is 100% legitimate as branching alliance structures already existed in warframe back when rail combat existed.

It's a bit cumbersome, as far as solutions go, but I think it'll work.

[TrickshotMcGee]

Could it work? Of course. People that have those amounts of materials do exist and could easily do this by themselves.

Is that a feasible solution to support everyone who either can't do it, or is in a clan that's too big without enough active players to do it? No. That's a ton of resources. I mean, I have about 90% of it myself, but anyone who's been playing for less than a year is likely just out of luck, especially in regards to the costs of Hema. 

[ensignvidiot]

2 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Could it work? Of course. People that have those amounts of materials do exist and could easily do this by themselves.

Is that a feasible solution to support everyone who either can't do it, or is in a clan that's too big without enough active players to do it? No. That's a ton of resources. I mean, I have about 90% of it myself, but anyone who's been playing for less than a year is likely just out of luck, especially in regards to the costs of Hema. 

And that is the downside.

But the painful part is that DE is taking a firm stand on noy budging, so we have to work through it however. I'm still planning the logistics of this solution, as I'm not sure if I have a friend who is reliable enough to co-warlord for this.

Though I may cave and just farm... I just hope it doesn't continue to set the example of "this is okay, you should do this with more weapons"

[Beggining]

9 minutes ago, ensignvidiot said:

I just hope it doesn't continue to set the example of "this is okay, you should do this with more weapons"

I really hope DE doesn't take this mindset. I wasn't around for it, but I've heard that Paracyst had a similar problem to Hema. I'm not sure if the issue was ever solved, so I'm rather worried.

[(PSN)Akabane85]

Hmm...I was wondering if the Kingpin system will force me to leave my solo clan and join an active one, then all my contribute to the research will be forgotten and disappear. This lead me think that I can lend my solo clan to another clan that has undone hema research to work as satellite clan as mentioned, or even sell it. All my research has done except the Hema which I didn't even bother to start due to low resources.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

...so no one working on a go fund me /kickstarter page to buy out de and make them change it yet? 😀

[Ramrr]

Yesterday with council of my clan we decided to do purge of members of my clan. I was forced to kick out 20 members of my clan to downsize it just to do that research. From those 20 people, most where inactive but few have had less than 30 days of inactivity. Thanks to cost of that weapon now I know that 20 kicked out friends = 10 saved sanities,

Thank you DE for giving me oportunity to feel like total jerk over stupid weapon that will end up mastery fodder.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I'm going to drop this here so people might gain some perspective on why the Hema was introduced.

IMHO it was partly as a stress test, partly due to inflation, but mostly as a price anchor to reset expectations and influence spending habits.

https://www.helpscout.net/blog/pricing-strategies/

[T1t4n_43]

My storm clan successfully finished the Hema Research.

We used the following strategy...

- all 4 member clan groups had resource ammount booster on, but no resource chance one, it only makes minor difference

- we made Orokin Derelict Defense by Speed Nova (makes waves faster), Pilfering Hydro (it must kill), Booster Nidus (it must boost Hydro) and Desecrate Nekros (gives extra muta)

- all had Smeeta Kavats on to get benefit from Charm ability (can make 4 times more mutagen pick up for a short period of time)

- 30-40 waves we did, they took about 30-50 mins, each clan mate got about 200-400 mutagens depending on the luck, so a full clan team made about 800-1600 muta by a run

Even its the best strategy I know of, it means that financing a total Hema research costs about 31-63 pieces of such runs, so you would need 10 pieces of such 4 member clan teams to have an acceptable 3-6 runs per person, which means you must have 40% of very active clan members and 1600 platinum spent on 3 day boosters. Without booster you need 20 pieces of 4 clan member (80% very active clan) teams to achieve same results or 10 pieces of teams doing 6-12 of 30-50 minute runs.

Considering the bad numbers, as an "already have hema research done" clan member, I don't mind if other clans get help by mutagen requirement reduction or mutagen drop ammount increase or by any other way to complete hema. We had only 3 teams grinding the missing ammount (around 30K) which we didnt have in inventory prior to hema appereance, was too much, can't see orokin derelict anymore without serious sea illness.

 

[John89brensen]

2 hours ago, T1t4n_43 said:

1600 platinum spent on 3 day boosters

The fact that you had to spend this to make it worth your time is what makes this reseach absurd. 

 

14 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

IMHO it was partly as a stress test, partly due to inflation, but mostly as a price anchor to reset expectations and influence spending habits.

Stress test of what? player patience, willingness to sit on a mindless farm for one research project on one tyleset? If Hema is meant as a price anchor then is a terrible decision, its a clearly overpriced research. You cannot base all your costs on what the veterans have gathered over the years.

[-Drackoniss-Maikata]

16 hours ago, Ramrr said:

Yesterday with council of my clan we decided to do purge of members of my clan. I was forced to kick out 20 members of my clan to downsize it just to do that research. From those 20 people, most where inactive but few have had less than 30 days of inactivity. Thanks to cost of that weapon now I know that 20 kicked out friends = 10 saved sanities,

Thank you DE for giving me oportunity to feel like total jerk over stupid weapon that will end up mastery fodder.

We did the same with our clan. From 164 we downsized it to 100 and kicked players who were inactive for 20 days, only to build the research. Worst thing about it was that were kicked members of the clan, who donated alot for previous researches and even for Hema. For the next 52 days we can not become Mountain clan again and the players who were kicked can't come back. This weapon does not worth the sacrifice everybody are making for it. 

[DoomFruit]

On 19/02/2017 at 6:43 AM, ensignvidiot said:

And that is the downside.

But the painful part is that DE is taking a firm stand on noy budging, so we have to work through it however. I'm still planning the logistics of this solution, as I'm not sure if I have a friend who is reliable enough to co-warlord for this.

Though I may cave and just farm... I just hope it doesn't continue to set the example of "this is okay, you should do this with more weapons"

Don't do it. Reject the hema entirely. The only thing that DE will ever notice is blunt statistics. If a large proportion of the playerbase don't touch it, and then if there are loud complaints in the forums over why they're not touching it (the ridiculous costs), perhaps they might do something. Keep mentioning it. Don't let the issue die.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

4 hours ago, John89brensen said:

The fact that you had to spend this to make it worth your time is what makes this reseach absurd. 

 

Stress test of what? player patience, willingness to sit on a mindless farm for one research project on one tyleset? If Hema is meant as a price anchor then is a terrible decision, its a clearly overpriced research. You cannot base all your costs on what the veterans have gathered over the years.

Price Anchor in the time/money sense (There is a conversion rate for tolerance) for resources...Did you read the article concerning the $2,000.00 watch being placed next to the $10,000.00 watch?

So really, following my "Timesink Saturation Strategy/model" it's technically a RESOURCE anchor.

What do I mean by that?

If the Hema is a 10,000% increase in resources, then a 1,000% to 3,000% increase on items that follow will have the psychological impact of being a bargain.

In reality, it will still pull significant stores of resources out of the market, create "exclusionary choice" for players (time to do THIS over here and not THAT so I have to pay in some fashion if I want THAT), and help bring in the revenues needed to keep Warframe profitable.

The fundamental change in games  like this at this point in it's growth and lifecycle:

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DO IT ALL ANYMORE WITHOUT INVESTING REAL WORLD $ IN SOME WAY.

Honestly, I'm ok with it compared to other games of it's kind.

The unspoken contract is that it is IMPERATIVE, now more than ever, that DE makes the gameplay experience for the choices we DO make enjoyable.

[(PSN)Nek_Food]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

If the Hema is a 10,000% increase in resources, then a 1,000% to 3,000% increase on items that follow will have the psychological impact of being a bargain.

This is one great comment. Forget for a while the Hema's mutagen cost and see the big picture behind what just happened with Hema's research cost.

We all are making threads and comments about the Hema cost in our inventory's mutagen numbers, at the same time DE manages to pass for the SAME weapon an new standard of Neurodes cost that no one is talking about, because we all looking at the tree (mutagens) and we loose sight of the forest burning (rest consumed materials). Hema's research costs 50 Neurodes for the Ghost clans and that is unacceptable too, but no one has noticed or make it a big deal about it as we have been drowned by the mutagens cost upon us. Until Hema, all weapon's, warframe's etc reasearch cost 1 to a rare max of 3rare resource and suddenly came Hema to boost that number to 50!!! (only a couple of research cost 5 Nitain and 10 Tellurium as high demanded research needs)

Is 50 Neurodes / 50 Neural Sensors / 50 Orokin cells the new cost for future research? Is this right and fair?

Edited February 20, 2017 by (PS4)Nek_Food