Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

[jfhsanseiIII]

On 2/18/2017 at 0:31 AM, TennoPain said:

If his rework is good it will be nice but i kinda dont think at this point its gonna be any good 

Hope they dont base him on 1 skill smash button like some other frames.

I think for both positive and negative reactions we'll have to wait and see. From what I saw in the last devstream, I like it.  However, I'll have to wait and see how that plays out in the long run.  My main concern is that limbo will stay in the niche/endurance category.  

[DarkRuler2500]

How about letting the rework hit live first before giving negative feedback.

Just test him first, perhaps its good.

[Cortanis]

I want to know what the hard limit on the number actually is. Saying their is a limit is one thing. Saying their is a limit of 10 targets is an entirely different ball game. The part that gets me is that Limbo's abilities are kind of built in with a limit to begin with. Cataclysm is limited by how large it is, banish is giant energy vampire if you're going to be constantly banishing stuff, and his new ability is going to be super costly to maintain in the first place. I get the need to maintain frame rate and keep from melting down toaster computers, but a little more clarity please. If they're going to stick a hard cap on this so low that you're basically limited to just things in melee range, they might as well just shelve Limbo at that point. If we're going to be talking about a cap that you can actually play with, then fine. Ether way, Limbo explicitly needs control over anything he's bringing into the void so that that cap isn't exceeded and he melts down. The suggestions of running a mechanic like Booben's Bastille are probably the best control on this so far I think.

[PsiWarp]

It would be good enough if they just resumed time once the limit is reached. Stasis sounds as though it is duration-based, so enemies and their projectiles will eventually break free even without Limbo's interference.

Suddenly being forced out of the Rift, unable to return to it temporarily and effectively rendering all his abilities momentarily inaccessible, would just be too much for how squishy he is. If exceeding the cap just resumed time (ending Stasis early), it would basically return the game to its normal optimized state, so even toasters can run it with gunshots flying and enemies being lemmings. Limbo will still have to dodge the unfrozen projectiles to save his skin, so combat isn't one sided but he remains in control of his own survivability- the Rift.

[main_antagonist]

7 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

Time stop is bad because getting locked out of your powers just because there was too much going on is to big of a penalty.

One mirage comes along and you'll never be able to use your powers.

If it worked like Bastille, where when it gets to it's max, any excess enemies and projectiles are unaffected, that would be great.

Yeah I thought about that too I suggested a workaround a post above yours :D

7 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

Here's a workaround idea ...For bad PC's and The cap on Limbo's stasis.

(The goal behind this idea is to remove the cap on Limbo and benefit players who haven't got the best gaming rigs that would suffer massive fps drops)

Excessive projectiles making you hit a cap should be scrapped because being reprimanded for that isn't fun, to stop computers using up too much of their resources the best way to go about this would be to only allow you to freeze your own projectiles and those of your enemies!. Allies within your rift can shoot as normal. You aren't controlling their shots just you and the enemies within the rift.

 

Early game low level enemies die in the rift because your allies can run in and snake free kills from you if they wanted ... Later when the enemies have scaled up that won't be the case at all, it'll be great crowd control and you'll be able to set up consecutive headshots for bonus damage and make every shot count since the enemies will have such large health pools at this point.

TL;DR

Bad pc's don't have to worry only limbo and enemies projectiles get frozen,

You can shoot freely within the rift if you are playing with a limbo on your squad and the shots will connect with your target normally,

Limbo has his stasis cap removed and can have more fun setting up bullet, knife, explosive traps etc for when time speeds up again.

Everyone is happy the end.

 

[General_Durandal]

7 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

Here's a workaround idea ...For bad PC's and The cap on Limbo's stasis.

(The goal behind this idea is to remove the cap on Limbo and benefit players who haven't got the best gaming rigs that would suffer massive fps drops)

Excessive projectiles making you hit a cap should be scrapped because being reprimanded for that isn't fun, to stop computers using up too much of their resources the best way to go about this would be to only allow you to freeze your own projectiles and those of your enemies!. Allies within your rift can shoot as normal. You aren't controlling their shots just you and the enemies within the rift.

 

Early game low level enemies die in the rift because your allies can run in and snake free kills from you if they wanted ... Later when the enemies have scaled up that won't be the case at all, it'll be great crowd control and you'll be able to set up consecutive headshots for bonus damage and make every shot count since the enemies will have such large health pools at this point.

TL;DR

Bad pc's don't have to worry only limbo and enemies projectiles get frozen,

You can shoot freely within the rift if you are playing with a limbo on your squad and the shots will connect with your target normally,

Limbo has his stasis cap removed and can have more fun setting up bullet, knife, explosive traps etc for when time speeds up again.

Everyone is happy the end.

It's not that the computer runs the game worse the more things are being stopped, it's that the game's stability worsens.

You can have the best computer in the universe, but if the game it'self can't handle the load, then it's going to break.

That's why they will to limit it in some way.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

Ok first I'd like to start by saying WOW! The amount of replies and feedback I love it. There are more post that I can keep up with.

Now to business first I have already stated I 've the ideas they have but they needed some tweaks however  we much also realize they said it is not finished and needs more work, so I will wait for a more polished look before going Super Saiyan.

I did want to address Time Stop and some or most of my Limbo brothers and sisters may not like this.apon further consideration I like that Time Stop has a limit, that is provided that this limit removes energy drain and duration. Now my reasonfor liking it is because it follows his lore so to speak. We had to find his scattered rats around the solar system because the first Limbo tried a jump exceeded his ability and it killed him. The limit ofeelsn Time Stop feels like that to me you know be and reminds us to be careful. Now i get it its a game and you just want to kill but I like it. 

Now i did state that it would be awesome under certain conditions though.

1) no power drain or duration countdown after toggled on.

1) Here's why: giving the ability a cap is the equivalent of a drain or duration countdown. Frames either have a drain on a ability or a countdown this is a new thing much like how Nidus is different from the other frames. So the Cap is why the ability doesn't or should i say shouldn't have a drain or countdown.

2) have it affected by power strength or duration.

2) Here's why: This will allow us toincrease the size of the Cap so that we can freeze more.

3) A counter (0/500 for example) at the top of the screen once Time Stop is turned on.

3) Here's why: This will give plays a clear indication of when they are reaching there limit. One of my sons also suggested having the screen shake or flash a "WARNING SYSTEM OVERLOAD"  when he is pushing his limit which I thought was cool (go son). 

Again I don't know if this is already a part of there plan. However if not then hay maybe they read it (how with all these replies hahaha) and say hay that makes sense and they try it out who knows, either way what do you think?

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Has Rift Surge been clarified? Enemies charged with Rift Surge do 2 things; if they die in the rift, some kind of Rift Arc damages enemies outside the rift but if they leave the rift, their charge becomes a mini Cataclysm. I don't get the mini Cataclysm thing.

Activate Cataclysm, activate Rift Surge, collapse Cataclysm, small Cataclysm bubbles appear? Why would you want to do this? Wouldn't it be better if the charged enemies simply receive the damage from the charge when leaving the rift instead of turning into a mini Cataclysm?

Edited February 20, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Has Rift Surge been clarified? Enemies charged with Rift Surge do 2 things; if they die in the rift, some kind of Rift Arc damages enemies outside the rift but if they leave the rift, their charge becomes a mini Cataclysm. I don't get the mini Cataclysm thing.

Activate Cataclysm, activate Rift Surge, collapse Cataclysm, small Cataclysm bubbles appear? Why would you want to do this? Wouldn't it be better if the charged enemies simply receive the damage from the charge when leaving the rift instead of turning into a mini Cataclysm?

I believe the idea here though you are right it may need more clarification is in conjunction with Time Stop the smaller Cataclysms popping up will add to Limbos CC ability.

Here how I believe they intend it to work: you banish a enemy and do rift surge they explode causing mini Cataclysms that when other enemies walk through or get caught in (if you have Time Stop on) will freeze granting you even more control of the battlefield.

This is why I ask questions about Time Stop and how it will work because all of his abilities whether you kept them the same or change them as they did ride on Time Stop or Stasis whatever they choose to call it. 

However that is hi I believe it's supposed to work hope that helps.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

His Rework may sound awesome but their are still some concerns.

1. His passive shouldn't cost energy to go in the rift. On the devstream. One of them said it doesn't cost energy right now. Limbo shouldn't need energy to jump between planes. It's his main survivability power and absolutely crucial to him. 

2. Reworked roll for limbo. Alot of players use roll in combination with slide and bullet jump to gain a great amount of distance. Reworking his roll just made him slow in every squad now. Now he won't be able to keep up withe his teammates

3. Stasis. Enemies pausing in the rift is a great ability. I just feel like the projectiles pausing in the rift too is unnecessary. Sounds great on paper. But in game. Maybe cool to play with but is unnecessary. I can see players now making Limbo getting kicked out the rift because there was too many projectiles the rift could handle just at the simple fact, they didn't know that their projectiles was paused. Well if limbo has his 4th ability up anyway

4. Banish is now a small aoe. This is both good and bad. Good because you don't have to spam as much as you need to. No matter the bad reviews on this. Limbo needs this. But the bad news is banishing an enemy and a teammate by accident or vice versa when banishing a teammate while he revive a fallen teammate. Not to mention banish a rescue target and a enemy by accident along with him. 

5. Rift surge. Enemies that die in the rift will shoot an arc lightening to enemies on the material plane? I need to see more of this ability in action. Whats the damage on the arc lightening? The range? Will each enemy target 1 enemy? 

6. Mini cataclysms. Enemies that die while surged in the rift plane will create mini cataclysms? I like this ability. There is more risk than reward will this ability but Limbo needs this aswell no matter the negative reviews on this to.

7. Cataclysm. Remains the same except actually stun the enemies on cast now. I just always thought Cataclysm should buff Limbo in a way when he is in it.

 

Also let's give DE a round of applause for getting rid of that God awful white flames when enemies are in the rift. More excited about that too.

Edited February 20, 2017 by (XB1)Cash201293

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

His Rework may sound awesome but their are still some concerns.

1. His passive shouldn't cost energy to go in the rift. On the devstream. One of them said it doesn't cost energy right now. Limbo shouldn't need energy to jump between planes. It's his main survivability power and absolutely crucial to him. 

2. Reworked roll for limbo. Alot of players use roll in combination with slide and bullet jump to gain a great amount of distance. Reworking his roll just made him slow in every squad now. Now he won't be able to keep up withe his teammates

3. Stasis. Enemies pausing in the rift is a great ability. I just feel like the projectiles pausing in the rift to is unnecessary. Sounds great on paper. But in game. Maybe cool to play with but is unnecessary. I can see players now making Limbo getting kicked out the rift because there was too many projectiles the rift could handle just at the simple fact, they didn't know that their projectiles was paused. Well if limbo has his 4th ability up anyway

4. Banish is now a small aoe. This is both good and bad. Good because you don't have to spam as much as you need to. No matter the bad reviews on this. Limbo needs this. But the bad news is banishing an enemy and a teammate by accident or vice versa when banishing a teammate while his revive a fallen teammate. Not to mention banish a rescue target and a enemy by accident. 

5. Rift surge. Enemies that die in the rift will shoot an arc lightening to enemies on the material plane? I need to see more of this ability in action. Whats the damage on the arc lightening? The range? Will each enemy target 1 enemy? 

6. Mini cataclysms. Enemies that die while surged in the rift plane will create mini cataclysms? I like this ability. There is more risk than reward will this ability but Limbo needs this aswell no matter the negative reviews on this to.

7. Cataclysm. Remains the same except actually stun the enemies on cast now. I just always thought Cataclysm should buff Limbo in a way when he is in it.

 

Also let's give DE a round of applause for getting rid of that God awful white flames when enemies are in the rift. More excited about that too.

Agree and just want to clarify that I believe all the issues again that are negatives about Banish being AOE and Rift Surge causing small Cataclysms is supposed to be solved by the Stasis or Time Stop ability. Banish a rescue target and a enemy or two no problem Stasis, Banish a enemy that is immune to knockdown Stasis, need to revive a ally or put them into rift, oh no I banish a few enemies as well Stasis, mini Cataclysms all over the place what do I do you got it Stasis. How they work Stasis or Time Stop or whatever it will be called is going to be what makes or breaks the rework in my opinion of course. However i do believe that kind of explains why they feel so comfortable with the changes.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Zero-0-P said:

Agree and just want to clarify that I believe all the issues again that are negatives about Banish being AOE and Rift Surge causing small Cataclysms is supposed to be solved by the Stasis or Time Stop ability. Banish a rescue target and a enemy or two no problem Stasis, Banish a enemy that is immune to knockdown Stasis, need to revive a ally or put them into rift, oh no I banish a few enemies as well Stasis, mini Cataclysms all over the place what do I do you got it Stasis. How they work Stasis or Time Stop or whatever it will be called is going to be what makes or breaks the rework in my opinion of course. However i do believe that kind of explains why they feel so comfortable with the changes.

I really like the Stasis ability. Could possibly be the best ability DE made so far. It's just projectiles also being paused still kinda bothers me.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

I believe the biggest question when it comes to Rift Surge is whether or not it will keep its current damage multiplier and augment. 

For those that don't play Limbo this is the concern.  Limbo is a glass cannon he is made that way through Rift Surge and Rift Torrent if these abilities nd augment are removed completely this takes away from some very end game damage that he is capable of. This worriesus as we know how strong Limbo is capable of getting and don't want to loose that. When you look at other CC frames they all share the same issue damage fall off, however Limbos Rift Surge and Rift Torrent combo allowed him to stay a big hitter. Now some will argue that this is true but he is still squishy in the end and you would be correct, if you are using him incorrectly( I deeply apologize if I have offended some of you in that last statement). From afar it's a great way to shut down strong enemies at chock points and spawn areas. Now for melee (with some help from Naramon because that's what I like) he becomes an even bigger beast of a frame as you have his multiplier as well as the invisible multiplier to work with. So that is why there is so much concern about Rift Surge it's not so much that the ability is not liked though some don't like it. For most it's whether or not we will be losing that end game strength.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

I really like the Stasis ability. Could possibly be the best ability DE made so far. It's just projectiles also being paused still kinda bothers me.

I think it only bothers us because they stated it would come with a drawback that will render us powerless for a short duration. I address this in this thread oh about 5-8 post back and ideas that I would live with if that penalty remains. Check it out let me know what you think.

[Cimbro94]

Well a solution to the problem would be letting the projectile move and hit the enemies and not applying the damage istantly, but only when you turn off stasis (as it is stated for hitscan weapon and melee)

[Chewarette]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Zero-0-P said:

3) Here's why: This will give plays a clear indication of when they are reaching there limit. One of my sons also suggested having the screen shake or flash a "WARNING SYSTEM OVERLOAD"  when he is pushing his limit which I thought was cool (go son). 

Hell yeah, I was thinking of something like some graphic disruption, either on Limbo, on the HUD or on the frozen enemies to show that the whole thing becomes unstable (same kind of graphic disruptions we have in TSD and TWW quests).

But I think their 2 has to be changed anyway. It cannot stay in a way that hitting the cap would silence you for XX seconds. That's a death sentence to Limbo (and a death sentence for our fun). They should make all the enemies inside the Rift take huge damage, Limbo being kicked out of the rift with a half-second stagger, just to show that the plane kinda exploded or something like that if they want to stick with their "cap".

12 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

rift surge making smaller rift pockets everywhere is bad because,

what if one opens up on a bombard behind you? you dead.

what if one opens up and a crowd of enemies shooting at something? you can't use powers anymore if stasis was on.

the last thing limbo needs is uncontrollable pockets of the rift opening up everywhere.

if the surge made rift tears instead of bubbles, that can be hit with banish to open, that would be great.

Yeah, and what about one enemy deciding to die on a console ? We have to deal with a 20-second mini-Cataclysm over the console preventing us to hack it without any way to get rid of it ?

And what about the major annoyance in Excavation missions with mini-Cataclysms everywhere ?

Anyway, did the Rift Surge have to be changed ? Its damage boost is completely fine, completely changing it to an uncontrollable feature seems really, really bad.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Chewarette

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I'm a huge fan of Limbo, and have been told that I am one of the best Limbos players have played with, but that doesn't stop most people from avoiding me when I load into a mission with that frame so I'm thrilled about this rework overall. However, I agree with a lot of the concerns with some of these changes.

I don't particularly mind losing the dodge roll too much, but i do see why it might be more beneficial to keep the roll, and phase in and out while holding the button rather than tapping it.

I love the stasis ability, but think it should be more like Bastille as others have mentioned. Cap the number of targets frozen at one time rather than losing access to your powers when too many are frozen. This is especially concerning in relation to my next thought.

The rift has always been a major survival tool for Limbo, being able to control who's in or out at any given point to balance his squishiness. Having additional Cataclysms flying all over the place that you can't always control is detrimental to that purpose. Having extra enemies gaining access to you in the rift unexpectedly throughout the fight is not a good idea. Especially when those enemies could potentially be breaking the Stasis limit and making you lose access to Stasis and the Rift plane temporarily.

Maybe, instead of the mini-cataclysms, make it pull enemies near those locations into the rift for a % of your normal rift target duration, but drop their guns in the physical plane when that happens. This would keep them from taking away too much of your control and be useful to the team. Those enemies would be disabled, forcing them to melee in the rift for the duration, giving your team an advantage in the rift and would need to go back for their physical weapons when they leave the rift. Something along these lines might help make sure that power doesn't end up on the shelf for causing more harm than good like Limbo is known for by a lot of the community currently.

[(PSN)Zero-0-P]

2 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Yeah, and what about one enemy deciding to die on a console ? We have to deal with a 20-second mini-Cataclysm over the console preventing us to hack it without any way to get rid of it ?

And what about the major annoyance in Excavation missions with mini-Cataclysms everywhere ?

Anyway, did the Rift Surge have to be changed ? Its damage boost is completely fine, completely changing it to an uncontrollable feature seems really, really bad.

Ok here is a thought to put everyones mind at ease. First Stasis or Time Stop as I call it is the backbone as long as it on everything is frozen and if you are like me and you melee like 90% of the time then you will almost never worry about the Cap, though I do understand the concern.

Now to the really good part, just make Rift Surge a toggle ability as well turn it on and we have small Cataclysms everywhere as you kill enemies turn it off and they explode. That way you have total control over everything. Say because you have small Cataclysms everywhere you begin to reach your limit turn off rift surge the mini Cataclysms explode damaging everything in range and all is ok. What do you think.

[Shreiko]

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎17 at 4:56 PM, nighter3d said:

Well normal banish already knocks all enemies down and Cataclysm is going to stun enemies entering it for a short bit. So one of your desires will be met! ^^

I added the stun part absent-mindedly, what I really wanted to request was the ability to banish singular and multiple targets with either a tap or a hold of the button.

[Chewarette]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Zero-0-P said:

Ok here is a thought to put everyones mind at ease. First Stasis or Time Stop as I call it is the backbone as long as it on everything is frozen and if you are like me and you melee like 90% of the time then you will almost never worry about the Cap, though I do understand the concern.

Even in that case. You're fighting against Grineers ? At a high-enough level in a squad, you'll have several Heavy Gunner around. They shoot like, a lot of bullets. Just add anyone with a Soma or anything alike and your rift will very, very quickly be overwhelmed and insta-lock you as soon as you use your Stasis.

As I'm re-reading myself I have to ask something, as I didn't follow the complete devstream so I may have missed something : will bullets shot from outside the rift towards you be stopped by Stasis as well ? Or only projectiles that are fired from within ?

What I don't really like with this rework is that it seems we will have to reduce our range in order to have the least annoying toolset (smaller AoE on banish, smaller Cataclysm/Stasis, smaller mini-Cataclysm to reduce the annoyance). Not by gameplay choice but because the design of his set will force you to.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Chewarette

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I really, really, spectacularly do not like the "roll to Rift Walk" thing. I want absolute control over entering and leaving the rift, and I can envision wanting to actually dodge things without entering the rift. 

Now, if you have to activate Rift Walk and then you can roll in and out, that's a little better. I didn't watch the devstream and it wasn't clear from the thread. 

Edit: also not a fan of AOE banish. It seems to be exactly not the point of Banish. 

Edited February 20, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(PSN)Tsion]

Is anyone else concerned about the "In and Out" mechanics of his passive? I personally Bullet Jump and roll for speed all the time so having to do it twice just to STAY in the rift seems kind of counter intuitive, at least for a split second, to rolling now. I'd have to see how it plays out or ties together but I'm sure it's gonna take some getting used to either way. Only Bullet Jump! :)

The other concern I have is how they are going to designate targets for the newer Banish AOE. Is it everyone in the AOE upon casting or does it take into effect who you've chosen as the target? Like, would hitting an enemy make it enemies only or vice versa on friendly targets? People get annoyed now with being banished on a single target basis, so I can only imagine getting a whole team in multiple AOE casts of this is gonna exponentially peeve some people. 

Plus, from a Warframes KILL THINGS FAST stand point, Time stop is cool for locking down groups but I can see people being mad that it takes a bit of set up to be Meta Effective in group play. 

All in all, I'm happy he's getting some love and a look over but I'd have to play the build to get a good judgement of it. 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Tsion said:

Is anyone else concerned about the "In and Out" mechanics of his passive? I personally Bullet Jump and roll for speed all the time so having to do it twice just to STAY in the rift seems kind of counter intuitive, at least for a split second, to rolling now. I'd have to see how it plays out or ties together but I'm sure it's gonna take some getting used to either way. Only Bullet Jump! :)

Yep, I am - if rolling passively moves Limbo in and out of the rift, my options and level of control over my abilities is reduced, not enhanced. Overloading controls like that just strikes me as a bad idea that should be re-reworked. 

[ChameleonBro]

On 2/19/2017 at 6:26 PM, -Amaterasu- said:

What I'm saying is you have no idea what that limit will be or how it will work but the effects are perfectly fair, I was simply trying to put it in a lore perspective. You can physically overdo the limit yourself by using too many projectiles (or at least the ability will only allow so many because potatoes) as for enemies you have no way of knowing how many will be allowed but it seems more than fair to have a limit since time stop shouldn't be your go to ability it should be an emergency thing, you already have control of what goes in and out of the rift so if you're having that constantly turned on then there needs to be a risk.

The ability itself is still perfectly usable with that risk intact since you have total control over what's in the rift, if you're worried about the state of your cataclysm just release either of the powers based on the situation, if you're getting too many enemies inside then just stop using banish, it's all about managing if you don't have to worry about being shot at then you need to worry about keeping your shield up.

I do agree with you though it all depends on how big the limit is. I understand they want to make it because of people using potatoes to play Warframe, I am one of those people. I am just saying the way DE wants to solve and balance this ability is not the way to go. I'd be ok with it if it was like you said it was, basicly stop freezing things, the problem is they want to disable all of your abilities as well as the ability to go to the rift. As for me I am not worried for my build to get ruined, I prefer using negative range so I'll have easier time with Stasis (hopefully) but the people who build for max range are kinda screwed if the limit is not that big. Also do you know if they are gonna keep the Rift Surge augment or are they going to change it ?

[ChameleonBro]

22 hours ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:

Spelling Nazi attack! "Concerning," not, "Conserning"! 

Please disregard above comment... 

Yes, op I agree that it is a little troubling, but I believe that D.E. will do their best trying to make Limbo both useful and not rediculously, powerful. He seems much more useful with this rework than he is now! 

As he is currently, he has fantastic survivability and the ability to simply remove enemies is great! He really is lacking in damage potential. 

We'll see how well he does when his rework is released! Good concerns and questions raised, Tenno! 

First of all thanks for the grammar corrections, I always welcome those

As for the limit on his Stasis my only fear is that they will make the ability unusable especially with the punishment you get for passing the limit. There are much better ways to go with putting a different limit, but as long as the limit is not a ridiculously low number Limbo should be fine and a lot more viable in Sortie and high level missions (he is already sortie viable.

As of right now he does have great survivability but as soon as he puts something in like a Bombard he is in danger due to his low armor and health.