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Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

Hrodgrim

By Hrodgrim,
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(XBOX)TheMadCash

(XBOX)TheMadCash

Posted
Posted (edited)

I thought the rework was absolutely amazing. I didnt see a duration for his rift walk either. So happy its his passive now. Ill have to master him all over again. So awesome. Only thing thats also worth mentioning is you cant rift walk standing still anymore without moving a bit. Not a big deal but I noticed it.

That time stop thou. He is gonna be an absolute badass

Edited by (XB1)Cash201293
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(PSN)RenovaKunumaru

(PSN)RenovaKunumaru

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, kgptzac said:

It's a bit more complex than that for an online company-customer interaction scenario.  You're right, listening to us players doesn't mean what we say will ultimately have an impact to future updates.  But how do you know they are listening or not?  We can't know if they don't tell us anything.  I've played MMOs with publisher/developers ranging highly engaged to deafeningly hostile.  I'd say a concrete method to tell devs are listening to players is that they reply, with bits of their own insights, on how the suggestion is feasible from their point of view.

So yeah, if the devs don't let us know they are listening, it's only safe to bet that they aren't.

A lot of times it's a bit dangerous for DE to comment on things because of controversy. 

What the community asks for isn't always best for the community.

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kgptzac

kgptzac

Posted
Posted
Just now, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

A lot of times it's a bit dangerous for DE to comment on things because of controversy. 

What the community asks for isn't always best for the community.

If you happen to know a space themed sandbox MMO that's been around over a decade... then I'd tell you that game's dev/player interaction is quite awesome compare to some other MMO official forums.  Magically in that game's forum, even with (or maybe because of) devs regularly engage with the player base, what they say don't become controversial most of times.  Over there the players understand not everything a tagged person says on the forum is to be treated as a promise and to be held accountable if a future update doesn't reflect it.

It maybe because the maturity of player base as a whole.  But I do think the more devs speak their minds to the public (and not making promises), the players will get accustomed to the fact that not everything will conform to the expectation.  After all, devs are humans too.  But tbh and imo, only when they regularly interact with us players as equals, for example, in the art/tennogen sections where I see a lot of "healthy" such interactions.

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Fansay

Fansay

Posted
Posted

Personally I am a fan of this rework. It gives Limbo CC other than just making enemies non-interactable and allows him to deal with groups instead of being forced into single target takedowns only.
Hopefully he maintains his bonus damage on 3, but even if he doesn't he also gets a time freeze which is probably better.

I would really love it if his augments benefit the rift rather than his abilities.
E.g. Allies gain bonus damage while in rift (Limbo included)
Allies regain 5%HP/s while in the rift (Limbo included)
Enemies are aditionally slowed and puncture procced upon entering and leaving the rift.

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Shadu

Shadu

Posted
Posted (edited)

Honestly the rework seemed decent but still leaves a lot to be wanted, his Cataclysm now seems useless compared to the AoE Banish, you're still as likely to get instantly killed in the rift, you're still a huge hindrance to your squad with your abilities. You're still useless while you're outside of your rift, your skills still take a lot of setting up which doesn't suit a fast paced game like Warframe (and there are plenty of more things that are still wrong with Limbo). So while the freeze time ability looked awesome to use, past the initial reaction I'm quite a bit let down and think they still have a lot to tinker away on the Limbo rework.

Edited by Shadu
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Azamagon

Azamagon

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have the same concerns and similar suggestions.

Passive - While I think a passive that restricts parkour is... annoying, for the lack of nicer words, I'd be fine with it IF it had one more addition: If he stands still and presses shift (or whatever you map your roll-key to), i think he should simply warp in and out of the Rift, without doing any dash.

Banish - I'd reverse that: Tap to singletarget, Hold to AoE. Why? Singletargetting requires more precision, which is easier with tap-casting.

Stasis - Penalties to being in the Rift if overloaded is a no-no. Way too harsh. But SOME penalty, like the duration of the ability gets hastened (i.e. you freeze them for less time) the more enemies that goes into the Rift, that I'd be fine with, as the ability seems incredibly potent otherwise.
EDIT: I don't want it to stop ALLIED projectiles (neither for the team or Limbo himself)

Rift Surge - Damage amp in Rift is fine. Enemies exploding with AoE damage is fine. Enemies causing mini-cataclysm is very NOT fine.
I'd suggest to change the ability to function, cast-wise, like Accelerant: Recastable, with a selfbuff (Damage amp when you are in Rift) and debuffing enemies in an AoE (to cause them to explode on death). The death-explosions can hurt cross-Rift.
The mini-cataclysms should be scrapped entirely though, those just reek of issues.

Cataclysm - With a short stun, it would be fine. But I'd also like:
* Don't allow enemies to exit the sphere by themselves (no hard-CC when touching the shrinking walls though).
* Enemies in Cataclysm hurt by Banish will be expelled violently with ragdoll.
* Holdcast it when active to quickly shrink the sphere's size manually.


There you can get control and precision, along with the ability for some wild (and slightly risky) AoE stuff. Sounds like it would work, imo.

 

Edited by Azamagon
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PsiWarp

PsiWarp

Posted
Posted (edited)

Another lovely post brainjelly! Covers about everything I wanted to ask, but of course questions beget more questions! Here goes:

  1. Rift Plane
    • New rift effects on enemies are less visually jarring, but not as cool as the white flames IMO.
  2. Rift Dodge
    • Looking pretty snazzy. Wish it gave us more distance though since rolling goes farther than what was shown.
    • Key binding. Thinking that Operator's Void Dash (Crouch + Sprint/Roll, or basically Sliding) might work too.
  3. Banish
    • AoE - my build had 49% Power Range, but Rebecca still put a lot of enemies into the rift with Banish. It's likely the radius is static and unaffected by Power Range (or just really big for testing purposes).
    • I haven't analyzed the clip thoroughly yet, so I wonder if Banish can blink enemies out of the rift for an instant to trigger Stasis' time resume, if they were already inside Cataclysm? That would be amazing as Limbo can both sustain his arena and selectively resume time on groups of enemies.
    • Still need to see if any ally-friendly changes made it in! Accidentally Banishing allies is now even more likely to occur with that AoE!
    • As always, options. I agree with tap ~ single target, hold ~ multi-target.
  4. Stasis
    • Amazing ability, will need more details but- already has great potential.
    • Uses Rift Walk's animation, which was sped up from Natural Talent from the looks of it.
    • As others have pointed out, we'll need to be able to keep track of the enemy + projectile count to avoid getting booted out of the rift. Ally trolling is also possible if they use something like Supra.
    • Once the ability is fleshed out, hopefully the enemies will not turn to face you!
  5. Rift Surge
    • As long as we get to keep some semblance of damage bonus, the extra effects are welcome!
    • Will have to see how the "Rift Arcs" work in practice, but I have to say I really like the idea of being able to influence the material plane from the rift. Can't believe it is on Rift Surge either, the one ability that is useless outside the rift!
    • Mini-Cataclysms need a way to be detonated, and likely also stun enemies like their big brother when they form/explode.
  6. Cataclysm
    • Really hoping the pickups being collectible is just a nice change they forgot to mention. Please keep it!
Edited by PsiWarp
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Chipputer

Chipputer

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, kgptzac said:

I'd say a concrete method to tell devs are listening to players is that they reply, with bits of their own insights, on how the suggestion is feasible from their point of view.

Dude, they can't even have placeholders within their dev builds without people isolating the thing and then jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

You really think it'd be a good idea for DE to post anything? The only thing they could even post without hinting anything one way or another is a stock, "thanks for your feedback, we'll look into it." That'd definitely go over really well.

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warpLightning

warpLightning

Posted
Posted

Any ideas what should I use to recreate the appearance of The World? 

However, I'm not really sure about his new passive. I've missed the streaming and have a question about this ability. If Limbo rolls, he appears in the rift, so does rolling again cancel it?

You know, the only missions that made me use Limbo were spy missions on Corpus planets and Lua. Casting rift on self and then rolling to get to a console through lasers ASAP made you feel like a real cyber-space-ninja, who was unstoppable by some pathetic lasers on which Corpus foolishly rely.

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MokutoBunshi

MokutoBunshi

Posted
Posted (edited)

Limbo rework comments as a limbo player: #1 Why is it that a nulifier unbanishes US but not bullets? Shouldn't banished weapons be able to hit a nulifier bubble (or maybe even pass through?)

@37:51 #2 People who don't play limbo hate being locked out of loot. They don't care how easy it is to get out and pick stuff up. They either want to be able to pick up the loot IN THE RIFT (preferred for them) on NOT be locked out at all. #3 Many limbo players' gripe is less on the trade off with loot for intangibility (You aren't actually invincible when playing limbo). PERSONALLY I would like to know why we can use a gun in the rift but you can't banish a whole room and use/hold the stuff inside like the data package etc.

 

@39:38 #4 This has a lot of promise. What is it interaction(synergy?) between long range cataclysm and you being able to shoot into it from range while in the rift? #5 ALSO, please don't make that new 2nd ability keep you from regening energy for no reason! I hope this isn't the abilities final form. I caught that AI still moving bug ;) #6 Pausing (stop/go like in/out) seems like a very LIMBO like mechanic. Who is in charge of limbo dev?

 

@40:00 #7 Suggestion: Make the rift breaking a soft cap or gradual! (T-3 seconds till rift destabilization :P) It will still do the same thing but smart players will use fast weapons to get as many projectiles in as possible before it collapses. ALSO, I am not sure how good a decision it is to lock a player out the rift for too long. In high levels you can kill yourself easy (read: sorties).

 

@40:34 #8 "Oh! I'm not really killing anything" WELCOME TO OUR WORLD. You know, a big reason for the rework XD.

 

@40:47 #9 Almost died from not being able to interact with a main game-play feature in the rift eh? :P *See #3*. You also cant pick up air support mini capsules in the rift.

 

@41:38 #10 THANK YOU FOR FIXING RIFT SURGE!!!~ **watches it further**... I thought you just fixed it so that the damage values are correct and that the whole team can hit them... THIS IS WAAAAY BETTER! Careful with the mini, cataclysm effect though :P unwanted rift space = miscalculations and dead frames like in the lore ;) It could also over load his 2. But still, sound AWESOME! @____@ #11 However, people (like me!) have been asking for a way to possible make MORE cataclysms. I cant wait to experiment with this and radiation(Nyx?) and invisibility!

 

@43:00 Personal note: #12 About cataclysm. Its his ULT but his 2 and 3 seem WAAAY more awesome now! On top of that, his 1 does most of the group banishing work leaving his ult as a defense tool. Maybe it needs synergy touch-ups? Or...something? #12.1 my idea: Make it match his lore!! If he overloads the rift make cataclysm have a special effect possibly doing crazy things until the rift breaks and explodes(See #7 for soft cap) (his 2 speeds up attack speed? His 3 odd bursts?) Kinda like a malfunctioning return to the normal plane? Heck If I needed to sacrifice a mod slot for a augment that takes 50% health/energy to do it I WOULD!

 

Conclusion: THAT WAS AWEEEESOME! One thing I have been wanting to say this WHOLE time. Please please pleaseeeeeee add cosmetic slides!!!!!!~ Ill pay for it! I thought of that slide from Megamind (help me here people). Tom cruises slide in risky business and the perfect song. Men in black: Just *slide* with me just *slide* with come on make you neck work! (cue ability 2) Now *FREEZE* XD

 

Anyways, I feel really REALLY good about this rework. Hopefully they keep iterating on it until it works well and maybe give it some more QOL.

Mods, please let me know if this discussion belongs here or should be moved to feedback (I don't think its technically feedback since its unreleased...).

 

]\'[okuto Bunshi

Peace out.

Edited by MokutoBunshi
Formatting for the eyes!
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morningstar999

morningstar999

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Evanescent said:

1)Banish is now AOE

 

6 hours ago, Evanescent said:

6)Cataclysm remains unchanged except for damage on cast and stun on enemies

(not watched the stream yet)

but this just makes banish sound like the same thing as cataclysm.

the whole point of banish was to put a single target into the rift. :/

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DarkOvion

DarkOvion

Posted
Posted

So... what's left of Limbo?

Limbo is all about about fine control.

Being a scalpel.

Giving it AoE and floaty transitions instead doesn't seem like a scalpel...

Having powers like other frames reduces the uniqueness, and one of the powers being able to lock him out of his other powers seems very detrimental.

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(PSN)psycofang

(PSN)psycofang

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

 

(not watched the stream yet)

but this just makes banish sound like the same thing as cataclysm.

the whole point of banish was to put a single target into the rift. :/

 

You still can but now with the added bonus of stopping time so anyone that goes in with them.

 

9 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Giving it AoE and floaty transitions instead doesn't seem like a scalpel...

 

Yes now hes a ghost that pulls you to his realm/stops time on priority targets and etc.

He didnt change for the most part 

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DarkOvion

DarkOvion

Posted
Posted
Just now, (PS4)psycofang said:

Yes now hes a ghost that pulls you to his realm/stops time on priority targets and etc.

He didnt change for the most part 

So... from a gentleman duelist, unique among frames that specialised in field control and choosing his battles to... a 'ghost' that had powers 'like' other frames, including time slow (like rhino) and area effect abilities (like nova).

That alone is massively worrying - prior to this there was nothing about Limbo 'like' other frames.

The more I see, the complete lack of a damn given about what the frame *is* by the devs, saying one thing and doing the opposite makes me very dubious.

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