[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)Xx_Weasle_xX]

So let me get this right.

You guys get the Tonkor Nerfed because it can blow up one room. (Oh boo hoo, my frame or weapon can't compete because people are noob tubing the room and my frame cannot do anything, why bother killing anything)

Yet do not want Limbo nerfed when he can blow up an entire ZONE. (Oh Limbo can blow up stuff even 10 miles away from a room before we even see the enemy. That's fine. Seems legit. /shakes head.

Yeah you guys make no sense.

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by (PS4)Xx_Weasle_xX

[Shadu]

It seems Cataclysm has been nerfed or it is currently bugged. You no longer get energy for kills that you get by collapsing Cataclysm so you can't constantly cast Cataclysm and get enough energy back instantly to use it again. Normal kills still count though.. so I guess they made it that as you collapse Cataclysm the units are no longer considered being in the Rift and thus don't count? The skill had to be nerfed though, but wish you would still get some energy for it..

I can't see a change to this spell anywhere in the patch notes, damnit DE make your notes proper..

I also feel that we went from 4 useful skills: Banish to banish a single target on either plane, Rift Walk to get into the rift, Rift Surge to get a huge damage boost, Cataclysm to Banish a whole room and any enemy that enters afterwards. We ended up with now 2 useful skills: Stasis so we don't instantly die in the Rift from enemies we brought in and Cataclysm but now that the energy return is gone on that one.. Cataclysm basically hasn't been changed much. Rift Surge is only really useful with the Rift Torrent augment and Banish is just inferior to Cataclysm now. So not a great change skill wise.. even though he is more viable in different missions now.

I believe Rift Surge would be less bad if it would instantly bring targets into the Rift as soon as they are affected by it.. so that you can use it to constantly be putting enemies into the Rift.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Shadu

[Quanlain]

8 hours ago, ChameleonBro said:

Some things you mentioned for me were actually good, like having to think  a lot more. I like that because it makes Limbo hard to master, that makes him special for me.

Yes, i love that part about Limbo as well, but sometimes he is confusing even for a Limbo player himself. 

For example i had a moment on kuva fortress, when i couldn't tell difference between rifted and unrifted state, because the tileset is pretty dark, and rift shaders got a bit lighter after patch. 

Or sometimes you dash in your rift tear, remaining in rift, although you wanted to leave it. (rift tear should not affect Limbo at all IMHO)

8 hours ago, Kierlak said:

Banish and Rift Torrent are largely useless

As for Rift Surge - i kinda still don't understand it's mechanics, the augment is awesome however. I think that it is either not working properly, or described not properly. It only works as "bring me more enemies in the rift" skill, no damage, no surge spread for me. 

Banish for me is more teammate-friendly way to bring enemies in the rift. Because if you've opened cataclysm on interactable objective, nobody will be able to use this (data terminals, lift callers, life support, pretty much every press x to do stuff.) 

And if you can roll out of banish to interact, cataclysm will remain for it's duration or untill popped, so yeah, consider the fact that there are still trolls and douches alive. In small amounts however. 

[Nasair]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:38 PM, Endorphinz said:

Either that, or Limbo will spam their cataclysm move that one-shots everything sight, not letting anyone else a chance to touch an enemy. Remember mirage simulor and bladestorm spam? Well this is just as annoying.

I didn't mind Mirage Simulor (or blind) or Bladestorm spamming.

I do mind the Limbo spam though, but over all am happy another frame is getting played more.

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Xx_Weasle_xX said:

So let me get this right.

You guys get the Tonkor Nerfed because it can blow up one room. (Oh boo hoo, my frame or weapon can't compete because people are noob tubing the room and my frame cannot do anything, why bother killing anything)

Yet do not want Limbo nerfed when he can blow up an entire ZONE. (Oh Limbo can blow up stuff even 10 miles away from a room before we even see the enemy. That's fine. Seems legit. /shakes head.

Yeah you guys make no sense.

 

Have you seen how many people was against the tonkor nerfs?

Most people  on the forums want buffs not nerfs but as the old internet saying goes "the worst part of the community is the loudest".

People dont want to nerf limbo at all but these wannabe "skillful" guys cant take that, this thing kills faster than me and my "OP" bow, nerf it.

[(PSN)Xx_Weasle_xX]

The COMMUNITY, as a whole got the Tonkor nerfed from complaining.

Seems the pro Tonkor the way it was is a much smaller majority, than the people who hated it.

Actually the Tonkor people who liked it the way it was, was the minority.

So yes, more people were pro Tonkor nerf than against it.

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

I haven't even tried Limbo yet, so cool it with the nerfs!

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Here's a real test. Its not as OP if you use it in less than optimal conditions.

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[Demon.King]

Only thing I would agree needs a look is the cataclysm damage.

BUT if they reduce cataclysm damage, then they must make banish work as it did pre-rework.

The banish change killed limbo for me, no more tactical play, picking of priority targets, now just spam everything...

Edited April 4, 2017 by Demon.King

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

People don't know much about Limbo's history. Did you guys know that almost every warframe youtuber treated him as crap. Its always "do not recommend" and "D tier." and that kind of snowballs because people will think he's bad before trying him out. If it wasn't for Frozenballs and later on Tactical Potato and Life of Rio that promoted his Rift Torrent build, I bet no one would still be playing him.

According to DE, Limbo is statistically the least played warframe. His Rift Walk was always compared to Valkyr, his Rift Surge was always compared to Banshee, his energy restore is always compared to Trinity, his Cataclysm is always compared to Frost and everyone would say anything he does can be done better by other frames.

Now Limbo can do something that no other warframe can do. He can scale with the enemy's levels more efficiently than anyone else. If his ability to scale was removed, no one would be encouraged enough to play him. He would just be treated as MR fodder. And I don't think DE wants that.

Instead of asking for a nerf, encourage DE to make future reworks of older warframes like Oberon, Chroma, Hydroid, etc to be like Limbo's.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

4 hours ago, Shadu said:

It seems Cataclysm has been nerfed or it is currently bugged. You no longer get energy for kills that you get by collapsing Cataclysm so you can't constantly cast Cataclysm and get enough energy back instantly to use it again. Normal kills still count though.. so I guess they made it that as you collapse Cataclysm the units are no longer considered being in the Rift and thus don't count? The skill had to be nerfed though, but wish you would still get some energy for it..

No, its not nerfed. You can only get energy back from enemies killed in the rift if you stay in the rift. Cataclysm will kick you out of the rift if you close it so if you kill things with a Cata Collapse and you are within its AoE, you won't get energy. But if you point it at a distance and you are not in its AoE, it won't kick you so when enemies die, you get energy.

[Separius]

16 hours ago, Imaru said:

Limbo can fill a huge number of these niches. 

So can Frost and Nova, do you want them nerfed as well?

16 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Yes, a PvE co-op game. It's the same as pre-nerf Spamulor, ruining everyone elses fun.

Just leave the group.

16 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Tbh, I don't know the state of co-op atm because I've been going 100% solo

Ok, yeah I like to give my opinions on astrophysics on too, I just don't know S#&$ about it, I still demand my opinions to have merit XDXD

16 hours ago, Nurmetya said:

I see so much Cataclysm spam now that he's falling into the insta-abort mission category I have. 

Good, good! This is the proper attitude in the scenario, if one can't stand a situation.

[DreamsmithJane]

1 hour ago, Separius said:

Just leave the group.

Shouldn't have to. That will always be the answer to this nonsense, so will everyone please stop saying this? There should not be things in the game so intolerable to large numbers of people that they feel compelled to quit the game and start over. It should not happen. Ever. It's not reasonable in the least.

[Nez-Kal]

17 hours ago, mcbloodteam said:

 

Limbo's 4th ability works off 10% of Enemy's Remaining Health inside the Cataclysm when it detonates. Shields too.

This means when you have 20 full health Crewman standing in the Cataclysm, and detonate it, they all die.

This means when you have 20 full health Corpus Techs standing inside the Cataclysm, and detonate it, they all die.

......Yet it's examples like that which people use for their "LImbO Op N3RF nOW" arguments.

 

Tell me. When, ever, have you used his 4th on high level Corpus maps with ONLY 10-20 Corpus Techs standing in it.

Answer: Never.

This is a situation that can ONLY be done in the Simulacrum.

 

In reality, you would use his Cataclysm on a level 135 Corpus area (And with a Nullifier NOT in it) you would detonate it on the 9 Crewman, the 11 MOA, the 2 Leeching Osprey, the Oxium Osprey, and the 2 Corpus Techs........And the Oxium Osprey and the Corpus Techs would all still be standing with barely a dent in their health.

 

His "Nuke" can be OP in those "Just Right" places, maps, and situations, but everywhere else it's just a Cannon Fodder wipe or minimal Area health denter.

Like Ash's Fatal Teleport, however OP it's "Just Right" moments are, it Greatly fails in all the rest.

[Ditto132]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

People don't know much about Limbo's history. Did you guys know that almost every warframe youtuber treated him as crap. Its always "do not recommend" and "D tier." and that kind of snowballs because people will think he's bad before trying him out. If it wasn't for Frozenballs and later on Tactical Potato and Life of Rio that promoted his Rift Torrent build, I bet no one would still be playing him.

According to DE, Limbo is statistically the least played warframe. His Rift Walk was always compared to Valkyr, his Rift Surge was always compared to Banshee, his energy restore is always compared to Trinity, his Cataclysm is always compared to Frost and everyone would say anything he does can be done better by other frames.

Now Limbo can do something that no other warframe can do. He can scale with the enemy's levels more efficiently than anyone else. If his ability to scale was removed, no one would be encouraged enough to play him. He would just be treated as MR fodder. And I don't think DE wants that.

Instead of asking for a nerf, encourage DE to make future reworks of older warframes like Oberon, Chroma, Hydroid, etc to be like Limbo's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I started becoming Limbo main after playing his quest. His personality and playstyle matches mine very well, introvert and playful to name a few.
Personally, I don't use Rift Torrent build, my weapon damage is sufficient and usually extract ~60mins in old void survival.

Prior to this rework, most players dislike him and would leave the game whenever they see that I am using Limbo, thinking that they would be trolled.
Occasionally, some players would say in chat "LIMBO!!!" and feel excited about it, probably because not a lot of Limbo playing on public missions.
Despite all the negative view on him, I still played him for almost all missions.
And goes "I like him" whenever someone asked me "why you keep playing Limbo in Exterminate", "why you don't bring Frost in Defense", "Loki is better for Spy" and so on. I just smile in my heart and in my head "too bad you don't really understand Limbo".

Everything is fine until Sortie came out.
I hate it when people who initially disliked/hated Limbo, started using him in Sortie Defense and Rescue.
In my mind, I was like "Come on... I thought you guys said that he is the worse frame, hated him to the core and that Limbo players are trolls." and "Stop using him and go use your own favorite frames instead. He is crap, slow and cumbersome to play, right?".

Personally, I usually do not recommend Limbo to people as I find that most players just don't fully understand him. Most said that "I know him, he is all about isolation" or any sentences that try to simplify him and so on. I would go "-_-" and sigh...

In my eye, he is nowhere near the "D tier" that people labeled him as. In fact, he is considered top tier and should require higher Mastery Rank and skill to use him.
People are trying to compare and balance him with other lower tier frames(elemental) such as Ember, Frost, Volt and Mag, which I find ridiculous.

Using X-Men as an analogy.
Limbo is like Phoenix(class 5 mutant) in X-men: The Last Stand.
How can you compare Phoenix(Limbo) with Pyro(Ember), Iceman(Frost), Storm(Volt) and Magneto(Mag)?
Some powers are just at the different tier/class, comparing and balancing powers of different tier doesn't make much sense.
It is like comparing Mag's power to manipulate magnetic field with Nyx's mind control or Loki's invisibility.
It is like comparing grenade/rocket launcher with small firearms(pistol/rifle).

I feel that DE should have some form of tier/class for frames instead of trying to balance along with all other frames, especially different frames have different uses and playstyle.
And reworks older frame's powers to be scalable instead of fix damage number and add more synergies between abilities.

As a Master of the Rift, Limbo has control over anything in the Rift plane and if you know, Space and Time are related.
To those who uses Limbo by spamming Cataclysm, you are just looking for "press-4-to-win" alternatives, and don't fully understand Limbo's personality and to enjoy playing with him as intended.

To those who don't understand why Limbo and Stasis are fun, feel that it is slow and better of spamming Cataclysm, watch this:

Those people who feel that Stasis is disruptive to team play and feel like they are Wolverine, Professor X or Magneto, I can understand.
But hey, this is Limbo. At least you can still move and melee, even though that disrupt Limbo having fun.

You know what? Maybe we, Limbo players should just play alone...

[Trichouette]

14 hours ago, Kyryo said:

you saved yourself with that... (takes nidus back into the closet)

Well when a frame can deal 80k damage with one ability and only 130% power strength... You know something's weird about it.

Nidus and ash are probably the only frames who can do stuff against lvl 200 enemies with their burst damage abilities.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

57 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Shouldn't have to. That will always be the answer to this nonsense, so will everyone please stop saying this? There should not be things in the game so intolerable to large numbers of people that they feel compelled to quit the game and start over. It should not happen. Ever. It's not reasonable in the least.

Why not? The problem isn't the warframe or the game. Its the player controlling the warframe who chooses to be annoying. The possibilities of "annoyance" isn't even unique to Limbo.

Hydroid can stop you from completing a defense wave by drowning the last few enemies. Nidus and Inaros can do this too. Their abilities can stop you from killing that last guy. And recently I just realized that if Inaros goes down, his passive lets him suck health from other players. Why would that mechanic be in there?

Then there's Frost spamming his snow globes everywhere preventing people from shooting across maps. Loki and Nova can displace other players and can even cause deaths because they can drop you off cliffs and make you lose all your defensive buffs. Vauban is guilty of that too because of that trampoline of his. Nehza can stop Chroma from gaining bonuses from his Vex armor and there's probably several more "annoyances" that I don't know about.

Leaving is a perfectly legit option. It lets you find another group, play with friends or go solo.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Shouldn't have to. That will always be the answer to this nonsense, so will everyone please stop saying this? There should not be things in the game so intolerable to large numbers of people that they feel compelled to quit the game and start over. It should not happen. Ever. It's not reasonable in the least.

Look if someone has personal problems with a certain frame/weapon/effect color thats their problem.

Seriously these talk on the forum are the same what i have experienced in other mmo's. People come up and whine that things kill faster then they or have mechanics annoying to fight against.

If i want to fight as a mirage, spamming the sonicor with neongreen color along with a white energy vauban armed with orange neon effect quanta in my group than i have all the right to do soo, if someone has problems with it theyre free to leave.

Im pretty happy if i see miragulors, embers and banshees in my farming groups because that means we will finish this akkad run much faster and could probably gone further than 15 waves. If someone dislikes it then according to the rules of the pub runs you are free to leave.

[Jangkrik]

19 hours ago, brainjelly2g0 said:

I looooove Limbo, but if someone doesn't suggest a better fix for him, DE will nerf him way too hard.

Yeah. As a Limbo player, this is my main concern for Limbo.

The only reason why I'm not against an immediate nerf to Limbo is the fact that DE tends to nerf heavily if it's based on community complains (example: Ash, Synoid Simulor, Synoid Gammacor, Telos Boltace, Mag Greedy Pull, and Tonkor) as opposed to nerfs on their own volition (Nidus), which are usually not so severe, thus the reason why I'm not against it if it's done soon enough because I'm pretty sure that more complains are coming.

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Have you seen how many people was against the tonkor nerfs?

Most people  on the forums want buffs not nerfs but as the old internet saying goes "the worst part of the community is the loudest".

People dont want to nerf limbo at all but these wannabe "skillful" guys cant take that, this thing kills faster than me and my "OP" bow, nerf it.

Precisely. I'm personally greatly against the nerf. But if it's not done soon, the community complains will pile up and DE will most likely nerf him heavily like what they did with Simulor, Tonkor, and bunches of other "op" equipment.

And personally, the main reason why I want him nerfed (lightly) soon is so that I could say, "He's already nerfed, shut up!" to the ones advocating for major nerfs.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Jangkrik

[Fallen_Echo]

16 minutes ago, Jangkrik said:

Precisely. I'm personally greatly against the nerf. But if it's not done soon, the community complains will pile up and DE will most likely nerf him heavily like what they did with Simulor, Tonkor, and bunches of other "op" equipment.

And personally, the main reason why I want him nerfed (lightly) soon is so that I could say, "He's already nerfed, shut up!" to the ones advocating for major nerfs.

The mirage was nerfed atleast 2 times and the simulors had 3 nerfs already before this. Believe me the nerf squad wont shut up till something is literrally less worthy than garbage.

Thats why i say DE should hold votes ingame for atleast mr5 players. The forums tend to be the most toxic places while only having a small minority of players actively posting.

Making any gamechange here is like asking 10 feminazis on what the perfect equality should look like.

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

have you tried getting off corpus planets OP ? and fighting something that has Armor ?

[Shadu]

4 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

No, its not nerfed. You can only get energy back from enemies killed in the rift if you stay in the rift. Cataclysm will kick you out of the rift if you close it so if you kill things with a Cata Collapse and you are within its AoE, you won't get energy. But if you point it at a distance and you are not in its AoE, it won't kick you so when enemies die, you get energy.

Previously it didn't matter and I just tested it again, in the simulacrum I spawn 20 Ancient Healers and use my max range build: 183duration, 85% efficiency, 250% range, 121% strength. I have 225 energy before using cataclysm and cataclysm costs 115 energy to use so I'm at 110 energy after casting it once.It covers all the ancient healers and me, I collapse it, all ancient healers are dead and I'm still at 110 energy. If I do the same thing but make sure I'm not in the cataclysm as it is cast the same thing happens. I've tested it with different enemies and there was no change. I've even tried it by using cataclysm while I'm already in the rift and not in the cataclysm AoE and.. no change. Also tested it in situations where I've used it before and it resulted in the same thing.
Before if you killed enemies by collapsing cataclysm you would get 10 energy for each enemy killed this way, now you no longer do so.

So yeah I can confirm as of now this ability has been nerfed so we can't spam it to the degree some did before. It still does the insane amounts of damage but you'll no longer immediately gain enough energy back to keep casting it with most builds. It's a fair nerf though as the ability was way too OP.. Just wish DE did their patch notes properly and puts this in it.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Shadu

[EinheriarJudith]

Every limbo thread i see has a handful of fan boys in them. this is not a tactical shooter. infact CC is not even needed until game balance starts to break (high lvl). limbo is the rift lord not a time lord people keep saying time and space which is incorrect. he controls dimensions. this is a horde loot shooter. all this "well other frames can troll" how often do you see it? anytime i see loki in group i never get switch teleported, or frost spaming globe? with a limit of 4 give me a break. there is alot of this "i main limbo i know how to play and you dont" hahaha  what has wf community become? in an emergency press 2 press 4 press 3, rez heal up press 2. when locking down a point press 4, press 3 kill all the things wait for collapse. no one has to use banish unless its to stop someone from dying or to protect rescue target (which it should have stayed single target). limbo has always been great point defense, spy and rescue. hes become more disruptive with stasis. telling people they are stupid for wanting to see bodies hit the floor is enough for me to say DE should just replace limbo with a different frame so we can all move on.

on to people telling others to solo. ok go work for DE then fix solo affinity and rewards so i never have to group then you can tell people to go solo. i dont know how many of us have complained that we have no spawn slider to increase spawn. id love to solo more so i dont have to deal with the BS you find in pugs but the punishment for soloing is to strict.

Edited April 4, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Ah so that's what this all is about. Couldn't find anything concerning that. Yeah, they can go ahead and nerf it. So long they don't nerf the frickin aoe stunlock that allows status and the teamwide, massive damage buff >.>

[main_antagonist]

21 hours ago, Kereler said:

"but all warframe should be equally useful"

 Nova: *laughs*

Oberon: *cries*

^ this guy gets it :D