[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)varas2110]

As a limbo main since pre rework... 

 

I THANK YOU DE, (also stop being such DingleFops when playing limbo) limbo has incredible team capabilities but no one lets their team in on the fun of Rift torrent catablast) 

 

Also I know that the banish change is a little weird but I feel that it's a really good trade of in barter terms

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Because everyone speaks the same language and spends their whole life looking at Squad chat, yes?

How to use your Operator is included when you approach a Kuva Siphon, there's no reason that the same pop up couldn't appear detailing how to get out of Limbos rift the first few times it happens.

given the seperated pairing for different languages/countrys? Yes, indeed.

[-CM-NineFingers]

1 hour ago, ChameleonBro said:

Upon further investigation apparently it does restore your energy... Yeah Cataclysm will get nerfed. It isn't supposed to regen energy thoughm

Definitely shouldn't give you energy for kills on cataclysm deactivation, that's nuts. Fix that and it's a perfect ability otherwise.

Since I don't use cataclysm to deal damage, I never noticed it, tested it now.

Apologies for being wrong on other posts before this, to everyone, @Murkar included. Should have checked that first.

[Demon.King]

3 hours ago, main_antagonist said:

I was playing Limbo as a client just now, a New Loka assassination squad of eximus Ancients turned up and my powers didn't work on them figured I'd report it here! 

Apparently that's intended for some reason.

[-NEP-hypernepmension]

Can someone explain me why people want his 4th ability to get nerfed because it scales? I am pretty sure that about 99% of the community aren´t even playing high level where this damage outperforms their weapons.

[Xaero]

Maybe because Mag was nerfed in the same way.

[[DE]Momaw]

Limbo doesn't need to aim, and ignores line of sight, and hits everything in a 60 meter radius at the same time.

While a player with a gun can certainly kill A enemy in the same amount of time....Limbo's already called all the enemies by the time you find, move to, and aim at, that one guy.

[Skaleek]

I really miss mag's shield polarize.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

6 minutes ago, Momaw said:

Limbo doesn't need to aim, and ignores line of sight, and hits everything in a 60 meter radius at the same time.

While a player with a gun can certainly kill A enemy in the same amount of time....Limbo's already called all the enemies by the time you find, move to, and aim at, that one guy.

And that's why Bladestorm got changed as well, same with Mag and Saryn

Edited April 6, 2017 by 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4

[(PSN)iBoiz]

There is also Nova's 2 and Nyx's 4.

[Xardis]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)iBoiz said:

There is also Nova's 2 and Nyx's 4.

And Mag's 2. Ow and whole Nidus. And Daynox's 4. And Nekros's 4.

There are loads of scaling abilities. I dont think we should have less, I want more. Limbo'4 wont one shot everything in cata range most of the time. It kills weaker enemies while bombard and gunners survive.

[Pro3Display]

tbh this situation is really stupid imo

de made those "super abilities" multiple times now and despite that people cry that they are op and de then nerf them de again make a "super ability" that makes people whine that "x steals all the kills from me"

de really need to step up their game and finally decide what they wanna set the game as:

horde nuking where hundreds of enemies die every second to aoe abilities

or ninja assassinations of high value low amount of targets where anybody could get his nemesis' head on a plate

 

tbh they could do both but that requires a lot of reworks passing through

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

20 minutes ago, Xardis said:

And Mag's 2. Ow and whole Nidus. And Daynox's 4. And Nekros's 4.

There are loads of scaling abilities. I dont think we should have less, I want more. Limbo'4 wont one shot everything in cata range most of the time. It kills weaker enemies while bombard and gunners survive.

Don't forget Valkyr 4. Just press 4 and then kill kill kill. You're invincible.

Edit: Just realized Vauban his this weird thing going on with his Vortex. If you can use it to keep an enemy in perma-ragdoll, they'll despawn. It'll kill anything that can be ragdolled regardless of level.

Edited April 6, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Don't forget Valkyr 4. Just press 4 and then kill kill kill. You're invincible.

He was noting scaling abilities. Hysteria is very powerful, yes, but it doesnt have infinite scaling.

[Callback]

Apparently he got a rework while I was away and now has a stasis time stop.  Great in theory, nice defensive ability to hold everything off, but in practice it forces HUGE numbers of actors into a single room, more than was ever intended to be able to make it there alive at once, and TANKS framerates of everyone involved.  I'm on a GTX 1080 and I dipped under 40 during yesterday's sortie mobile defense, from a typical 90-100 even during heavy firefights.  I don't know if PS4 has inherited this ability yet, but if it is allowed to go through it is going to MURDER their systems.  Something has to be done to optimize performance around this ability.

 

Please include something to help alleviate this.  Simplify the physics involved, maybe include a hidden "morale" stat for each tile that decreases with enemies in stasis and deters others from entering?  Something to prevent the frame-tanking chaos of this new ability.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Callback

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

He was noting scaling abilities. Hysteria is very powerful, yes, but it doesnt have infinite scaling.

Invincibility is infinite scaling because it doesn't matter what level the enemy is, its not gonna hurt Valkyr. Same with Radial Disarm. You can have an enemy that's level 20 or level 9000, they will lose their weapon when they're hit by it.

Edit: Also remembered Hydroid's Undertow. That'll drown most anything. CC has always been best scaling abilities in game. And then there's Wukong's Defy. Doesn't matter how much damage he receives, that ability will always revive him.

Edited April 6, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

On 4/5/2017 at 5:52 AM, DinendalMinyatur said:

No, I called you selfish because instead of offering a tweak which makes using Limbo  less problematic with teammates, you offerred Limbo getting outright nerfed so fewer player would use it.

Yeah I stated the same on my previous post

 

Problem is common played frame =/= OP

Should we nerf Frost because it always appears on a defense mission?

Or let's nerf Loki because they are always in a spy mission.

You keep failing at adressing the problem. It's not the frequent appearance of limbo, it's the problem of his skills being annoying on teammates.

Cataclysm spammers are annoying? Yes Stasis spammers are annoying? Yes

So tweak those skills and he'll be less annoying for teammates.

Also If something is new you'll see a high apperance rate on pugs for a while. Remember how people keep playing with Nidus when he first came out? Now the rates are downed since he's no longer new.

Welcome to the Valkyr fan club son.

 

There are many "Scared cows" in this game That If nerfed would have people throwing a fit.

 

On the same dime If a frame who had problems before outshines them,get ready for people to whine about that frame and how it should be nerfed.

 

 

[-NEP-hypernepmension]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Invincibility is infinite scaling because it doesn't matter what level the enemy is, its not gonna hurt Valkyr. Same with Radial Disarm. You can have an enemy that's level 20 or level 9000, they will lose their weapon when they're hit by it.

Please show me how valkyr is supposed to kill a level 1.000 heavy gunner with her Hysteria.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Just now, LightningAWG said:

Please show me how valkyr is supposed to kill a level 1.000 heavy gunner with her Hysteria.

Dude, scaling isn't about killing (unless that's the purpose of the ability). Its about maintaining its function regardless of enemy level. Doesn't matter if enemy is level 20 or level 9000, Hysteria will protect Valkyr, Bastille will paralyze and enemy, M Prime will slow them down, Radial Blind will blind an enemy and so on.

[-NEP-hypernepmension]

Just now, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Dude, scaling isn't about killing (unless that's the purpose of the ability). Its about maintaining its function regardless of enemy level. Doesn't matter if enemy is level 20 or level 9000, Hysteria will protect Valkyr, Bastille will paralyze and enemy, M Prime will slow them down, Radial Blind will blind an enemy and so on.

Nope nope nope. I see your point but you missed a really important thing. How will invincibility help you if you can´t kill an enemy with over one million health? even with cp you will have problems against such a heavy gunner. So what you said about maintaining its function is invalid in this case. You can use the hysteria against such high enemies, but where is the point? you cant kill them. they can´t kill you. at least for a few minutes at most.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

6 minutes ago, LightningAWG said:

Nope nope nope. I see your point but you missed a really important thing. How will invincibility help you if you can´t kill an enemy with over one million health? even with cp you will have problems against such a heavy gunner. So what you said about maintaining its function is invalid in this case. You can use the hysteria against such high enemies, but where is the point? you cant kill them. they can´t kill you. at least for a few minutes at most.

Well, I never used Hysteria as a killing ability. I've never treated is as one because it gimps you by locking your weapons. My weapons have always been stronger. I've always used it to protect myself from sortie bosses like Keyla's Orbital Strikes or when Sargus Ruk blows the tileset. Then I turn it off and use my weapons.

If you're treating it as a killing ability then, sure, dude, it won't scale for killing but it'll always protect you and deflect damage no matter how high that damage is because you're invincible. Just don't turn it off if there's enemies in range.

Edited April 6, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[Pro3Display]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Dude, scaling isn't about killing (unless that's the purpose of the ability). Its about maintaining its function regardless of enemy level. Doesn't matter if enemy is level 20 or level 9000, Hysteria will protect Valkyr, Bastille will paralyze and enemy, M Prime will slow them down, Radial Blind will blind an enemy and so on.

no, scaling is not about maintaining function

no fall-off/low fall-off speed =/= scaling

it's called reliability

scaling supposed to increase in power at relatively close speed with other things, not stay the same all the time while everything else become less succeptable to the effect at exorbitant speed from level to level.

example: % damage scales. stun is reliably shut downs actions of the target regardless of level

 

limbo scales of enemies, nidus scales of player's actions(times player hit enemies), valkyr's invulnerability doesn't scale, it is simply reliable in its function

Edited April 6, 2017 by Pro3Display

[PsiWarp]

I don't understand why players would oppose this. If you don't want the tips showing up on your screen, it can be made an option to turn off the hints. If you think it takes away development time from DE, not everyone works on the same thing at HQ.

The game has a user interface and a heads-up display for a reason, so vital information is communicated even if rudimentary to the player as he/she wanders about the game world. Limbo alters the playing field by limiting what other players can do, and this needs to be communicated immediately in-game, not by depending on other players, not by prior research on the wiki, but by the game itself when you need that information to function properly in any given mission.

I pray that Pablo would grace us with his magic QoL touch. If not for us avid Limbo players, then for the uninformed masses we encounter.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

5 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

no, scaling is not about maintaining function

no fall-off/low fall-off speed =/= scaling

it's called reliability

scaling supposed to increase in power at relatively close speed with other things, not stay the same all the time while everything else become less succeptable to the effect at exorbitant speed from level to level.

example: % damage scales. stun is reliably shut downs actions of the target regardless of level

 

limbo scales of enemies, nidus scales of player's actions(times player hit enemies), valkyr's invulnerability doesn't scale, it is simply reliable in it's function

Eh? sure dude. You say reliability, I say scaling. Potaytoes pottatoes, I guess.

Edit: Did you guys know, that when Frost's Snow Globe knocks enemies back and they hit a surface, they receive damage relative to their current health? That's scaling too.

Edited April 6, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[Pro3Display]

Quote

Level scaling is a gameplay conceit used in some RPGs to provide a continuous, consistent challenge to the player. As the player's character rises in level, aspects of the world will change to accommodate that character's growth. The most basic form of level scaling will increase the level of the enemies encountered, allowing their power to grow in step with the player. However, level scaling may also influence other aspects, such as the type and quality of loot found or the availability of certain quests.

At its core as a design choice, level scaling is meant to keep the challenge of the game at roughly the same level from beginning to end. In theory, as the player character grows in power, he or she should be able to tackle increasingly powerful enemies; the game will make adjustments based on the character's current level, thus maintaining an even playing field.

Though the idea of level scaling is fine in concept, its execution in some instances has left it open to criticism. The primary and most pervasive being that when the enemies grow in step with the player, it prevents the player from feeling any true sense that the player character has grown in power. Level scaling also negates the effectiveness of level grinding; a tactic by which players unable to surpass an obstacle may spend time in the game working purely to increase the character's level. Such is done in order to become powerful enough to best the obstacle through brute force if nothing else, but in games with level scaling, this is no longer an option.

Another criticism of level scaling has to do with the effect that it has on the game world's verisimilitude. For example, in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, the player will at times encounter bandits on the country roads. At low levels, these bandits are typically armed with nothing more than simple swords, bows, clubs, and regular armors. They then start gaining better equipment as a player's character level rises, but generally with nothing of a much higher value than what you'd typically expect to find on now stronger, but still common roadside bandits. Eventually, at higher levels, the level scaling results in regularly encountering these supposedly simple, poor, bandits equipped with extremely expensive, powerful, top tier weapons and armor, most of which are supposed to be rare and associated with more elite groups. This can be jarring, particularly when some of them still demand a tiny amount of gold from passers-by. They fixed this in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, where typical, nameless, common bandits never had access to the most powerful kinds of weapons and armor.

Examples of Level Scaling Final Fantasy VIII:

Unlike previous games in the series, Final Fantasy VIII introduced a form level scaling that tied the enemy's own level to that of Squall, the game's protagonist. The greater Squall's level, the more powerful the game's enemies, up to and including the final boss.

To counter the effects of this scaling, players are encouraged to power up their characters not through pure level progression but by effective use of the Junction system; a system that allows the player characters to receive stat bonuses by tying spells drawn from enemies to the characters' equipped Guardian Forces. Unlike the basic character levels, the Junction system is not tied to the level scaling mechanic.

copypaste from giantbomb about what scaling is supposed to do.

example from FF7 is similar to warframe on the surface but unfortunately mods are tied to player levels and player levels are not tied with enemy levels unlike the example

Spoiler

3 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Eh? sure dude. You say reliability, I say scaling. Potaytoes pottatoes, I guess.

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Pro3Display