[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[SenorClipClop]

During a Nitain Alert mission (defense on Uranus) I had a Limbo in my squad who ran into the centre of the tileset, stepped into the Rift and AFKed for the entire mission, coming back on the last wave to do a sweep for dropped items. Limbo's ability to remain completely invincible for an indefinite amount of time is an effortless way for players to not participate in the mission, raise the difficulty for other players and take up a spot in place of a Tenno who would like to play the game.

I'm not saying Riftwalk should go back to being a Duration-based skill, but having some kind of check or caveat in place to prevent this behaviour would be greatly appreciated.

[Wolfchild07]

As far as bubblemen are concerned, I think they should just shrink the cataclysm rather than dispel it completely. It's ridiculous that they can just shut it down completely.

And his passive should still work against scrambus or he has nothing he can do against them, since none of his powers work around them either.

[-CM-NineFingers]

4 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I understand people don't like Limbo spamming his Cataclysm. I'd like to make some suggestion changes just to give it kind of like more build up so Limbo doesn't spam it all the time but doesn't really change its effectiveness either.

Just limit his energy regeneration.

When Cataclysm's collapse kills enemies, Limbo loses 10 energy for ech killed enemy. So if he kills like 20 enemies with the collapse, he loses 200 energy and that's on top of the 100 energy he used to put Cataclysm up. The effect only kills as much enemies as his energy would allow. The values would of course be influenced by Power Efficiency mods. And its not uncommon for most Limbo builds to have like 600 energy anyway.

I mean, he can still gain 10 energy for killing enemies in the rift with his weapons but if its Cataclysm's collapse that kills them, he loses 10 energy instead of gaining it. So this way, the Limbo player needs to gather energy in between Limbombs instead of spamming it one after another.

I wouldn't mind that. That sounds like a play style where Limbo is powering up between nukes.

That would literally kill Limbo. Even with maxed efficiency, a Limbo would be able to use cataclysm every 13s, without being able to kill anything, and to kill 10 enemies it would need to wait over a minute. If you build him for range, the durations goes down quite significantly, making it hard to kill rifted enemies, thus making very hard for him to regain energy with his passive. And tell me what fully forma'd nuke, with a perfect build, takes 300 energy (225 at max efficiency) to kill 20 enemies regardless of the level. While the nukes will obliterate everything in mere seconds for about 50-150 energy, you're asking for Limbo to spend 300 energy to kill 20 enemies, don't matter the level (and two factions will always resist, grineer and orokin, thus making him nor worth using on half the starmap or past certain level). No, you can't punish a player for using their abilities efficiently. Think how would Banshee and Saryn work if they lose 5 energy per kill. Even 3. Impossible to use without a trinity, regardless of level and build. You can't be afraid to use your abilities. That would make Limbo cast Cataclysm, kill 40 infested and say "well, see you in 3 minutes and 20 seconds, since my duration is 6s and I have no time to kill them to gain energy. I could probably get outside the rift and gather orbs, but I'll get oneshooted, so I'm gonna make a sammich and wait this out".

Remember, when DE first explained how the rework would be, everyone jumped at a single statement: "When he reaches the 300 bullets limit, all his abilities shut down for a brief time". This was not implemented for the single reason that you can't punish someone for doing a good work.

[Pro3Display]

2 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Do you have any idea how strong that is? Limbo literally doesn't need to move and he can kill level 9000 squads in 100 seconds.

almost 2 minutes, soooo fast

[] brackets are there for a reason

[-CM-NineFingers]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

During a Nitain Alert mission (defense on Uranus) I had a Limbo in my squad who ran into the centre of the tileset, stepped into the Rift and AFKed for the entire mission, coming back on the last wave to do a sweep for dropped items. Limbo's ability to remain completely invincible for an indefinite amount of time is an effortless way for players to not participate in the mission, raise the difficulty for other players and take up a spot in place of a Tenno who would like to play the game.

I'm not saying Riftwalk should go back to being a Duration-based skill, but having some kind of check or caveat in place to prevent this behaviour would be greatly appreciated.

If someone wants or needs to afk, there's nothing able to stop them. Limbo or whatever, you can just find a safe spot and wait. Selfish people will leech regardless of frame. It's about as easy to find a safe spot in every map as it is to enter the rift.

Edited April 6, 2017 by -CM-Limbo
corrected a typo

[Aquasurge]

stasis might be better if the stopping of projectiles was attributed only to aiming.

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

During a Nitain Alert mission (defense on Uranus) I had a Limbo in my squad who ran into the centre of the tileset, stepped into the Rift and AFKed for the entire mission, coming back on the last wave to do a sweep for dropped items. Limbo's ability to remain completely invincible for an indefinite amount of time is an effortless way for players to not participate in the mission, raise the difficulty for other players and take up a spot in place of a Tenno who would like to play the game.

I'm not saying Riftwalk should go back to being a Duration-based skill, but having some kind of check or caveat in place to prevent this behaviour would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

There is the AFK timer that tries to fix this type of issue but result in more issues such as player marked as AFK when not moving much while camping, or going to the washroom.

There is not much you can do to prevent this behavior from inconsiderate players.
If those players have the intention of doing that, they will find some ways to do it.

If a person intends on not buying the original game/music/content, he/she will find some ways to pirate it.
Any implementations that try to prevent doing so would only hurt and cause inconveniences to those legit buyers/players.

See what happens when developers/publishers introduced DRM or "always Onine" in Single Player game?
Legit users suffered the most, while people who pirated doesn't have these type of problems.

Pirates can play the game offline, won't lose progress and saves due to lost of internet connection.
And legit users have to becareful not to trigger those system accidentally while pirates doesn't care due to the system being removed or bypassed.

As developer, requesting or suggesting such measures and implementations would exhaust the developer's resources into designing and implementing the system, instead of making new contents and bugfixing.
To be honest, it is tough to try and "fix" a person's integrity issue with such system.
I might as well go work for an Anti-Virus or security company instead of creating games.

[Mypi]

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

yeah or make that scale too, with efficiency and/or powerstrength.  It should be like 0.5 energy at base or something.

Reducing the energy gain alone would not fix this, unfortunately. Energy is usually not an issue once you get zenurik, pizzas, high efficiency, arcane energizer, etc.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Mypi

[Mypi]

3 hours ago, Trichouette said:

You should write even clearer, that way we can't even read your post

What do you want me to change? If it was the text color, i fixed it, my bad.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Mypi

[-N7-Leonhart]

"Let's put 10%, I am sure it won't be OP and won't turn into the new meta". - famous last words.

Now seriously, I can't imagine the Devs didn't realize this is OP as F across the board of levels. Then, what exactly was their plan? Draw attention to Limbo before nerfing him back in line?

Either way, the more it stays this way, the more the situation will deteriorate, fast. I see ppl everywhere using very low duration builds on Cataclysm, since it's a fast, wide and powerful nuke, nothing more you could want.

I would say a fast and resolute response to this would prevent a lot of the damage from the players having invested time and effort into Limbo. My own suggestion would be to make like 2-3% instead of 10% and make it scale with STR (as now it doesn't).

[Godzilla853]

I don't see the problem with limbo and how is he a nuke 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Godzilla853 said:

I don't see the problem with limbo and how is he a nuke 

Not seeing the problem on itself is subjective and fine by all means, but his 4th is definitely a nuke, as it has powerful and infinite scaling.

[-Temp0-]

Quote

As someone who certainly isn't new, (I'm MR19, well on my way to 20, with over 4000 hours logged)  I figured out how to get in and out of the Rift pretty easily; it's integral to my kit, after all. However, something I've noticed is that newer players (for example, someone under MR10) or players who have never seen or fought alongside a Limbo, are pretty much left in the dark by DE on how to get in and out of the rift.

You think that's bad remember that to escape volt's speed you need to perform a backflip.

Safe to say 90% of players don't even know that it exists.

[Nazrethim]

Another posibility is making it drain 1% of Limbo's total energy per enemy exploded.

[Godzilla853]

No what I mean is I have yet to see why people are upset about limbo because I don't see his problem.

[Xardis]

4 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Not seeing the problem on itself is subjective and fine by all means, but his 4th is definitely a nuke, as it has powerful and infinite scaling.

Infinite? Could you playtest it on a group of void mobs, say 140 lvl? Does it one shot all enemies?

Im not againt tweaking the numbers on Limbo. Im against nerfing him to the ground.

If you remove the scaling of cata damage, what do you perpose to add in its stead?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Xardis

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Xardis said:

Infinite? Could you playtest it on a group of void mobs, say 140 lvl? Does it one shot all enemies?

Sure you can make it one shoot all of them, with 3 or 4 CP auras. And either way, if you don't feel like playing in a full squad of CP, then you can always go nuke some of the un-armored factions. Just like Mag, only a lot worse.

[Cyborg-Rox]

I agree. People are just spamming this constantly like it's the new Miasma.

[-N7-Leonhart]

6 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Another posibility is making it drain 1% of Limbo's total energy per enemy exploded.

Sure, by all means. I am not saying to make Limbo useless, but the way it is now it's too 'pink' and without downsides to work out in the long run.

Edited April 6, 2017 by -N7-Leonhart

[achromos]

3 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

I agree. People are just spamming this constantly like it's the new Miasma.

While I don't think the scalibility should be removed from the ability I feel like it should be either more costly, and or have some sort of build up mechanic like Maim (Equinox's Ult)

[artemisfortune]

Yes, lets play a Frame who was only good at two things who can now hold his own and pretend he's some kind of god now. He isn't. He doesn't need that much of a nerf if any at all.

Don't make an outcry just because you don't like it.

[bl4ckhunter]

30 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

I would say a fast and resolute response to this would prevent a lot of the damage from the players having invested time and effort into Limbo. My own suggestion would be to make like 2-3% instead of 10% and make it scale with STR (as now it doesn't).

More like 5%, definitely should scale with power strenght, as it is there's no downside to running overextended and there really should be, still, it's not exactly a gamebreaking problem is it?

Edited April 7, 2017 by bl4ckhunter

[Soulden]

I dont mind high dmg abilities (those players are sacrificing duration).

20 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

I agree. People are just spamming this constantly like it's the new Miasma.

^ but this eventually will be a problem

 

24 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Another posibility is making it drain 1% of Limbo's total energy per enemy exploded.

Sounds ideal, beats the alternative (having to combo in order to maximize the damage of just one ability- ala Saryn) 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Souldend78

[-N7-Leonhart]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Yes, lets play a Frame who was only good at two things who can now hold his own and pretend he's some kind of god now. He isn't. He doesn't need that much of a nerf if any at all.

Don't make an outcry just because you don't like it.

I am only hurrying the inevitable by a little bit. This was merely a snowball until now, which will turn into an avalanche very fast, with more and more players that pick on the 'hidden' scaling stat. And it will be a huge fiasco for sure, much bigger than Tonkor or Simulor ever were. And even those got nerfed. And the later that was, the more players had to suffer.

Edited April 7, 2017 by -N7-Leonhart

[prot0mega]

Oh you think insta nuke limbo is bad, that's cute. Wait till you team up with a perma stasis cataclysm limbo, in a freaking survival mission

Annoying and frustrating don't even begin to describe it.