Harrow feedback and discussion

[Tesseract7777]

3 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Actually that's a good idea, Harrow already gives health, energy, invulnerability, why not shields too? Like an AoE Arcane Aegis.

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. 

I am also wondering if Arcane Aegis and Arcane Barrier might be good choices for Harrow, I haven't tested those particular arcanes though, the effect seems interesting for Harrow (since he's willingly giving up his shields a lot, and relies on them for defense), but the chance for them to proc seems really low. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Tesseract7777

[PsiWarp]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

Yeah exactly what I was thinking. 

I am also wondering if Arcane Aegis and Arcane Barrier might be good choices for Harrow, I haven't tested those particular arcanes though, the effect seems interesting for Harrow, but the chance seems really low. 

I got Aegis recently to prep for Harrow and it procs very often. I think the chances on the wiki is wrong, it's 10/20/30/40% in-game.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, PsiWarp said:

I got Aegis recently to prep for Harrow and it procs very often. I think the chances on the wiki is wrong, it's 10/20/30/40% in-game.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate that. I was wondering whether I should invest in it or not, I definitely will have to do so now. 

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

I just want to express that once I read what Harrow's abilities were going to be, I have lost all interest. He gets a 10/10 in the looks department though.

[NeithanDiniem]

16 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

I feel like Thurible (#3) should do a bit more than just energy gain on headshot kill, since all his other powers are multi-functional. #1 CCs in a line and gives shields/Overshields, #2 gives weapon fire rate + reload speed bonuses & heals, #4 gives brief invulnerability then a crit chance buff...

#3 pales in comparison because of how slow it is to accomplish its one function. Hold button 3 to drain energy, presumably cannot use weapons while swinging that Thurible, release to place a stationary energy fountain down, stay in range and get headshots, if you kill with a headshot then you get energy. I hope the energy gain at least stacks with multiple Thuribles if you're in range of them at the same time.

But yeah, some kind of buff like an armor bonus while near a Thurible would be nice to help survive while trying to aim and headshot.

It already does do more, it is the skill that has a team buff and heal, they just didn't show it in the stream. They did mention it though.

EDIT: ignore me, remembered wrong.

Edited May 16, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[Evanescent]

17 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

DE totally should have named this guy Dante instead of Harrow...  Dante just sounds so much better (referencing Dante's Divine Comedy)

I'm sure a certain silver haired, gun toting, sword swinging, quip spouting half demon has nothing to do with it. Divine Comedy, right ;)

17 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

as Harrow makes me think of http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Haro and someone mispronouncing "hello" "Harrow".

I like Harrow. It means to strike fear deep into your bones, freezing your blood and carving a crest of horror that passes down from generation to generation, borne in blood....

*coughs*

I mean it means to scare someone silly. Yes, I like it.

[Hixlysss]

Considering all of his powers require him to land a headshot, shouldn't harrow's passive also include highlighting enemy heads? You yourself had no idea where the head on the rattel was in the mission, and some enemies such as the boiler or charger would confuse and frustrate players in landing those needed headshots.

Also...would it be possible to make his powers not so reliant upon headshots? For every single one of his powers to require a headshot to trigger is just...too much. Power 1, to get shields back he needs to land headshots. Power 2, to heal allies he has to land headshots. Power 3, to get energy back he needs...headshots. Power 4, he gets bonus crit chance and damage...only on a headshot. It's a bit...much. At least make his 4 not reliant on headshots and just boost his crit chance and damage based on the amount of absorbed damage while invulnerable. Like...power 1 and 2 are kinda good, cause they have a natural benefit not reliant on headshots, and a bonus if you land the headshot. His power 3 and 4 are totally reliant on headshots, if they had some other benefit with a bonus if you land headshots...that would be the way to do it.

EDIT:

Let's start with his power 3, something else this power could do is, just an idea here, increase accuracy of yourself and allies in the AOE of it? Decrease accuracy of enemies? Perhaps inflict a random status on enemies or provide some buffs to allies, and if you land a headshot you get energy back. Power 4...should provide bonus damage based on what you took in, with bonus crit chance/damage on headshots, further more it should be for a duration of the power, like say it's invulnerable state only lasts like 4 or 5 seconds, but the rest of the power lasts like 10 seconds, and during those 10 seconds you do bonus damage with bonus crit chance on headshots, instead of it just being "Oh, you do bonus crit chance on your next 1 headshot."

I would do more for his power 4 honestly, it should feel more like a special state he goes into. Pulling out his little incense and chanting while taking damage, I feel like it honestly should be a toggle power(With a cap perhaps) like Nyx's absorb, more damage he takes in, more energy it costs, more damage he can output. You could even tie in to this "For every X energy used, the bonus damage lasts for X". He should also PULL AGGRO MASSIVELY in this state.

Let's actually go back to his power 1, friend had a very interesting idea for his power one. Have it give shields based on enemies hit with the power, rather than relying on headshots. Something like 10% shields per enemy hit with his power. Furthermore he does need....more support to him, considering he is supposed to be a support frame where octavia was damage, as well as more "Self Sacrifice" which is the other part of his theme, Self Sacrifice and Precision, which currently he is mostly Precision. An alternative power 4 idea was you press 4 and sacrifice like...all but 2 of your HP to give your team mates all their HP/Shields, Energy, provide bonus armor, and pick them up if in a downed state. And for a certain time after pressing 4 should you land a headshot afterwords, you get the same buff applied to yourself.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Hixlysss

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

Personally I like the thought of the headshots because it is going to make people actually have to aim instead of just spraying wildly. 

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Personally I like the thought of the headshots because it is going to make people actually have to aim instead of just spraying wildly. 

Go back to your pleb games. This is game of mindless button spamming, not skill or fun. /s

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

Go back to your pleb games. This is game of mindless button spamming, not skill or fun. /s

Sorry if I like to actually play the game :p

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Sorry if I like to actually play the game :p

You should feel bad. This game wasn't meant to be played; it was made to be cheesed and then subsequently whined about on the Forums. *rolls eyes*

On topic, I know a lot of people have the problem with headshots, for a variety of reasons (the only one of which I agree with being the theme-clash), but honestly, with his first ability, that won't be a very big problem. I just hope they slightly tweak the abilities to be a bit more 'priest-like.'

[Almagnus1]

1 hour ago, Evanescent said:

I'm sure a certain silver haired, gun toting, sword swinging, quip spouting half demon has nothing to do with it. Divine Comedy, right ;)

I like Harrow. It means to strike fear deep into your bones, freezing your blood and carving a crest of horror that passes down from generation to generation, borne in blood....

*coughs*

I mean it means to scare someone silly. Yes, I like it.

Lemme guess... you're now going to say that Harrow is the terror that flaps in the night, right?

[Ryme]

Harrow looks like a solo only frame. Good luck lining up headshots on a Nidus "meatball", Vauban Vortex, or Hydroid flailing tentacle. Doesn't this also mean that a Limbo that presses 2 completely negates Harrow's core mechanics?

I also find it questionable that Harrow doesn't have an "exalted gun" skill, when his core mechanic relies on having a weapon to land those headshots with.

It just feels strange to see what's being done with Harrow, after having seen them release flexibly synergistic frames like Nidus and Octavia. Harrow feels like a step backwards; like it was developed in the Simulacrum, with no consideration for the reality of the ecology of group content or playing with other frames.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Ryme

[Hixlysss]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

Personally I like the thought of the headshots because it is going to make people actually have to aim instead of just spraying wildly. 

Except for at least HALF his powers to ONLY work if you get a headshot is bad design IMO. And people are still going to spray, I already discussed this with friends and they were all "I'll just grab the twin grakata's and hope for the best." Or "I'll just rank him to 30 and toss him away." Because his kit is too focused on headshots. Sure, power 1 locks them in place, and power 2 gives faster fire rate and reload speed at the cost of losing shields, but power 3 and 4 ONLY work if you land headshots, from what we have seen. Power 3, charge it up and land headshots to get energy, so if you don't land a headshot it does nothing. His power 4 is tap it, go invulnerable, damage taken during this time is converted to bonus crit chance on a headshot. So if you don't land a headshot...nothing. 

Let's start with his power 3, something else this power could do is, just an idea here, increase accuracy of yourself and allies in the AOE of it? Decrease accuracy of enemies? Perhaps inflict a random status on enemies or provide some buffs to allies, and if you land a headshot you get energy back. Power 4...should provide bonus damage based on what you took in, with bonus crit chance/damage on headshots, further more it should be for a duration of the power, like say it's invulnerable state only lasts like 4 or 5 seconds, but the rest of the power lasts like 10 seconds, and during those 10 seconds you do bonus damage with bonus crit chance on headshots, instead of it just being "Oh, you do bonus crit chance on your next 1 headshot."

I would do more for his power 4 honestly, it should feel more like a special state he goes into. Pulling out his little incense and chanting while taking damage, I feel like it honestly should be a toggle power(With a cap perhaps) like Nyx's absorb, more damage he takes in, more energy it costs, more damage he can output. You could even tie in to this "For every X energy used, the bonus damage lasts for X". He should also PULL AGGRO MASSIVELY in this state.

[Arkvold]

I'd agree: give Harrow a passive that causes any enemies within affinity-sharing range to highlight their heads to him and him only.  Maybe his buffs could allow his passive to extend to his allies.

"My abilities aren't working!" "Aim for the glowy spots!"

Edited May 16, 2017 by Arkvold

[Hixlysss]

4 minutes ago, Arkvold said:

I'd agree: give Harrow a passive that causes any enemies within affinity-sharing range to highlight their heads to him and him only.  Maybe his buffs could allow his passive to extend to his allies.

"My abilities aren't working!" "Aim for the glowy spots!"

"Oh hey, the enemies heads are glowing now...Someone is a harrow!" Would be nice, instead of it just affecting him.

[Railgun]

What I don't understand is how they connected a priest theme to getting head-shots. 

[NeithanDiniem]

Yeah I'm not too big a fan of his passive, he has no way to trigger it outside of another player or a consumable. Of he can't give himself over shields then it's completely wasted. Hell a flat accuracy increase with weapons would have been better IMO.

[Evanescent]

42 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Lemme guess... you're now going to say that Harrow is the terror that flaps in the night, right?

And on afternoons when it rains.

[NeithanDiniem]

3 minutes ago, SergeantSunshine said:

What I don't understand is how they connected a priest theme to getting head-shots. 

How did they do it to Dante? It's not the first time a character attributed to being a priest had also been given guns or utilized gunplay in their attacks. He is more a dark priest or an inquisitor. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[Hixlysss]

2 minutes ago, SergeantSunshine said:

What I don't understand is how they connected a priest theme to getting head-shots. 

Well they said priest theme, and then later "Focuses on Self Sacrifice and Precision." which...this is their idea. His only "self sacrifice" is losing his shields for his power 2.

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

Yeah I'm not too big a fan of his passive, he has no way to trigger it outside of another player or a consumable. Of he can't give himself over shields then it's completely wasted. Hell a flat accuracy increase with weapons would have been better IMO.

His power 1 gives him shields, when you land a headshot.

[NeithanDiniem]

4 minutes ago, Hixlysss said:

Well they said priest theme, and then later "Focuses on Self Sacrifice and Precision." which...this is their idea. His only "self sacrifice" is losing his shields for his power 2.

His power 1 gives him shields, when you land a headshot.

I never saw it give over shields though, does it?

[Hixlysss]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

I never saw it give over shields though, does it?

When?

[NeithanDiniem]

Just now, Hixlysss said:

When?

The devstream?

[Hixlysss]

Just now, NeithanDiniem said:

The devstream?

Oh, right. Yeah, that was beta though, and I don't recall it either way, but that's how it was explained to us, even if it wasn't show.