Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[blazeshadow44]

Just now, blazeshadow44 said:

i wouldn't sya meh.  not being drained by orbs that move like snails, the magical carpet is long gone and that armor buff comes pretty handy when a more glassy warframe needs help.  Energy is definetely needed though. buffing the armor debuff is a need, and damage output needs to be increased a bit more.

Rephrase, magical rug, carpet is too big to call it before rework

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

Just now, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

 

If you intend to let your health get hit, sure. Equilibrium is too RNG, and Rage means you might be dead on the floor

Right, he needs some sort of kit based energy recovery. Oh yeah, Hallowed ground, not only the pin but it could be the catalyst. 

[TheBlackAce21]

3 minutes ago, Jackel7 said:

**Before official "rework" a lot of people had post (like me) with ideas for Oberon...example

Some people may had seen this coming so I 'll get to the point.

Smite- fire an Orb that when it hits something it break into smaller homing orbs with their own chance to proc radiation meanwhile large orb procs impact 30% and against heavy units it goes up to 40%

Hallowed Ground/Gaia Thorns- place path in front of Oberon that deals damage to enemies in or near it and turns damage into armor.(Thorns/Vines pulls enemies into it)

Renewal-Heals allies and uses current buffs also after Oberon casts it limit increase in movement speed for X seconds

Reckoning-Enemies killed drop health orb, any that survive suffer short movement/recovery debuff. While those out of killzone are hit with blinding affect. Also if Reckoning is cast in radius of Hallowed Ground/Gaia Thorns it creates an explosion releasing thorns that creates energy shrapnel.

original:https://forums.warframe.com/topic/786177-oberon-rework/#comment-8590833

 

While all this sounds cool, if the math isn't there or tested before release and tweaked then it is pointless.

Also...

5 minutes ago, Mastercontrol98 said:

PC is pretty much as close as we get to a public test environment. We're essentially the "bleeding edge" of updates, which then filters over to consoles.

 

Edit: There used to be something called "Community Hot Topics" fairly frequently which was DE polling on all things Warframe. But sadly we don't see that nearly as much anymore.

PC is still a "LIVE environment" where people spend money and time playing the game. The backlash from poor patches and ill thought out reworks could all be avoided with a simple public test server where people don't have to lose all the time and money they spent on forma to test out new stuff that just gets changed and reworked again and again. The Live PC server is not where things should be tested and I think the community as a whole would be a lot less pissed with DE if one was added to curb situations like this.

[TheBlackAce21]

2 minutes ago, blazeshadow44 said:

i wouldn't sya meh.  not being drained by orbs that move like snails, the magical carpet is long gone and that armor buff comes pretty handy when a more glassy warframe needs help.  Energy is definetely needed though. buffing the armor debuff is a need, and damage output needs to be increased a bit more.

How about the fact that allies need to be on the hallowed ground too for the armor buff? I think that needs changed to only oberon needs to be on it and all allies in the range of the heal get the buff. Also the hallowed ground is removed by nullifiers which makes it impractical on any mission with a nully which is any corpus/corrupted/relic mission =\ I am sure we could name other play styles that would technically work anyway but I think we are both in agreement that he is weak so I will refrain from hitting that horse while he is down.

[blazeshadow44]

1 minute ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

How about the fact that allies need to be on the hallowed ground too for the armor buff? I think that needs changed to only oberon needs to be on it and all allies in the range of the heal get the buff. Also the hallowed ground is removed by nullifiers which makes it impractical on any mission with a nully which is any corpus/corrupted/relic mission =\ I am sure we could name other play styles that would technically work anyway but I think we are both in agreement that he is weak so I will refrain from hitting that horse while he is down.

not weak.  main him.  everything ability based is destroyed by the bubble, nothing is safe from it, not even nidus

[TheBlackAce21]

3 minutes ago, blazeshadow44 said:

not weak.  main him.  everything ability based is destroyed by the bubble, nothing is safe from it, not even nidus

So I take it Titania and excal being able to break nully bubbles is a bug then? =\ I get you main him and nothing I or anyone else says is going to convince you he is weak but the fact is that when you look at the math (which is kinda hard to argue with since its, you know, math) everything he does is STILL done better by someone else and while I am sure he can be played with effect with the right mod setup, he is still outclassed in specific roles by every other frame in the game from a mathematical perspective. People need a REASON to play Oberon over other frames, that is basic game development 101 and currently no one does unless you got a thing for druids or paladins or just like the way he looks.

Edited April 29, 2017 by TheBlackAce21

[AdunSaveMe]

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

The reason given is flimsy, at best, as well.

Because you disagree with it? Back it up.

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Only bad Oberon players are running low on energy, constantly, to begin with

Running out of energy on a frame that relies on other frames or gear to regain energy doesn't make you bad.

Running out of energy full stop doesn't mean you're bad, especially on a caster frame with a small energy pool that requires multiple casts.

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Health orbs are also terrible for healing purposes at the point they start to matter.

Because they never spawn. This would help change that.

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

This change has been pushed by people, consistently, for ages now and all of them are people who do nothing but spam Reckoning.

Because Reckoning needs to be spammed in the hopes it kills something. Having its health orb generation be on kill is just counter-productive. Like that, it's just a near useless addition to the ability, instead of anything meaningful.

Pilfering Swarm's logic was changed to tag enemies instead of requiring them to be killed. Because requiring them to be killed by the ability for that function to come into play is silly. When it's something like health orbs which struggle to be viable as it is without this arbitrary limitation, it's even more silly.

Edited April 29, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[[DE]Momaw]

 What are you spending all your energy on, that you think Oberon needs an ability based way to regenerate energy?

(If the answer is "To spam 4 more often!", I am going to be sad)

[(PSN)XzarXasm]

Oberon wasn't Reworked. He was "Revisited". A true Rework, much like what was done to Limbo, is badly needed for him. The Revisit is not good. At all. The only truly redeeming factor about it is the change to Hallowed Ground, which even then was also a nerf (range). The "synergy" DE suggested was in this Revisit isn't present in this build. Stripping one of his abilities to then make that mechanic only activate when 2 abilities are used is ludicrously sloppy. Nidus has Synergy. This was just a gimmick.

Oberon needs a 100% Rework. His Passive, 1, and 4 NEED to be changed to something completely different. His 2 and 3 need to be combined, and receive an increased base Range. His Passive Isn't useful in the slightest. His 1 doesn't work to fill his damage role at all. His 4 doesn't rip armor off enemies effectively or efficiently. He needs something much more substantial to justify his use.

[Music4Therapy]

5 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:

So I take it Titania and excal being able to break nully bubbles is a bug then? =\ I get you main him and nothing I or anyone else says is going to convince you he is weak but the fact is that when you look at the math (which is kinda hard to argue with since its, you know, math) everything he does is STILL done better by someone else and while I am sure he can be played with effect with the right mod setup, he is still outclassed in specific roles by every other frame in the game from a mathematical perspective. People need a REASON to play Oberon over other frames, that is basic game development 101 and currently no one does unless you got a thing for druids or paladins or just like the way he looks.

Right? And people seem to think a couple hundred armor points and high-cost ineffective armor strip was enough to fix the woes within his kit.

[blazeshadow44]

nope, he is just good with my gameplay. Trinity is paper, excal is too boring, nova,nyx, valkyr,ember are spam 4 to win.  you may say he is too weak for you and that is just fine, but for me, he fits my style of gameplay alot better than the rest.  Just the way i am

[Music4Therapy]

Added

Quote

"Also, Hallowed Ground should provide some sort of bonus to Oberon (maybe allies?) that grants him bonuses similar to Limbo when he is in the Rift, perhaps energy per second or energy per kill while he in on HG.

to the OP

@AdunSaveMe @chainchompguy3 Wanted you guys to know I made a change to the original post.

[blazeshadow44]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)GamingGuerilla14 said:

Oberon wasn't Reworked. He was "Revisited". A true Rework, much like what was done to Limbo, is badly needed for him. The Revisit is not good. At all. The only truly redeeming factor about it is the change to Hallowed Ground, which even then was also a nerf (range). The "synergy" DE suggested was in this Revisit isn't present in this build. Stripping one of his abilities to then make that mechanic only activate when 2 abilities are used is ludicrously sloppy. Nidus has Synergy. This was just a gimmick.

Oberon needs a 100% Rework. His Passive, 1, and 4 NEED to be changed to something completely different. His 2 and 3 need to be combined, and receive an increased base Range. His Passive Isn't useful in the slightest. His 1 doesn't work to fill his damage role at all. His 4 doesn't rip armor off enemies effectively or efficiently. He needs something much more substantial to justify his use.

plus titania and excal's fourth are physicals, not like abilities and can be negated when they are in it. as long as they avoid it they are unstoppable

[Evanescent]

@[DE]Grineeer @[DE]Megan @[DE]Rebecca

First suggestions:

0) Give Oberon GRASS!

His Hallowed Ground should have grass on it! I would like to see the area bloom with grass and moss. With the coming earth remaster I hope this can be impemented into his visual design.

Please. DE please!

1) Oberon needs a larger energy pool and a way to recoup energy like Nidus and Saryn. This is because he is now extremely energy hungry to the point that he is unsustainable without rage or arcanes related to energy. You need to cast hallowed ground and then cast reckoning to strip armor, you need to cast hallowed ground and then renewal to get armor buff, you spend energy to cast renewal, keep it on, and additional energy when it heals. He just cannot keep up with the costs!

I suggest he be given the ability to spawn energy orbs from irradiated enemies and have his energy pool increased to 250. This gives him more energy to work with and an incentive to keep using his powers and inflicting those status procs.

 

2)Renewal is too energy intensive. It costs energy to cast, costs energy to keep up, and then it costs energy to heal. That is too much energy for just trying to heal the team, and drains him too quickly. It's great to have it as a toggle and have it lose the cap, but I feel it should be a toggle that eats energy only when it heals.

I suggest Renewal function like desecrate and have a casting cost and then consume energy only when it has to heal. 

 

3)Hallowed Ground needs to have its own armor buff. Having Iron Renewal is nice and all, but it doesn't make him as durable as he should feel as a Paladin. While he should not tank as much as, say, a Chroma or a Nidus, he should still have a reliable way of boosting armor. It would help his support role greatly to add consistency to his kit that the team can access as quickly and as simply as simply stepping on the glowing ground.

I suggest Hallowed Ground be returned its original armor buff and have it stack with Iron Renewal. 

 

4)The debuffs he inflicts need to last longer. In his video about the Oberon rework post 20.3.1, AGGP mentions that Smite has a debuff mechanic built into it in that it inflicts puncture procs on enemies and reduces their damage.This is true, but they don't last long enough to really make them a significant part of the ability. 

I suggest Status procs inflicted by Oberon's abilities should scale with his power duration. We already have an instance of this with irradiating disarm and Loki, so why not Oberon? It certainly makes sense and reinforces that aspect of his abilities.
 

5)Hallowed Ground needs to have a larger range. Right now, it's not very wieldy, and given how he needs to keep enemies on it to debuff them with Reckoning he needs a larger area to work with.

I suggest Hallowed ground have a larger range and have the angle of the cone increased.

Alternately, the augment, Hallowed Reckoning should help it strip armor due to spawning an instance of hallowed ground. If it does, ignore the point.

 

6)Reckoning should have the armor debuff built into it. Synergy is awesome, forced co-dependence is not. Unfortunately forcing almost every ability to have to be functioning on hallowed ground doesn't feel great, racks up the energy cost and makes everything feel restrictive. 

I suggest that Reckoning strip armor independently. 

 

7)Reckoning should strip percentage of TOTAL ARMOR. With his augment and enough power strength Ash can completely remove armor in a single cast with his first ability. Banshee can do so as well. I feel doing percentage of percentage gimps rather than helps the ability. Letting it strip armor in a few casts will go a long way in improving Oberon's scaling. 

I suggest that Reckoning's armor removal work on a percentage of the the target's total, initial armor to help it scale better.

 

Closing thoughts:

I feel that Oberon is pretty close to being in an ideal spot. He has abilities that make him versatile, give him scaling, let him support the team and fill in a number of niches without overshadowing the rest of the frames. He should be not the best, but good in everything in does. Improving the aspects I mention above will help him become a strong anchor to any composition and free him from the clunkiness holding him back.

Thank you for your time.

-Evanescent

Edited April 29, 2017 by Evanescent
Planted some grass

[Music4Therapy]

12 minutes ago, Momaw said:

 What are you spending all your energy on, that you think Oberon needs an ability based way to regenerate energy?

(If the answer is "To spam 4 more often!", I am going to be sad)

This is why:

The strength of Oberon now lies in his ability to chain combos, so you cast his Hallowed Ground, 50 energy. You then use Reckoning (100) to CC the enemies around you and strip them of armor while providing you cover so that you can cast his Renewal (25) safely on his Hallowed Ground and gain the synergy effect from that, Iron Renewal. While you are being healed, you are draining energy at a rate of 2 per second at base and 5 per second per ally. If you need to move? You don't get to move the Hallowed Ground, you recast it for another 50 energy. Etc....

Oberon is heavily reliant on using a stationary, high cost ability in order for his kit to work. He also lacks the durability to truly benefit from Rage in lategame scenarios to sustain his energy pool so that he can not only use the combos in his kit (Hallowed Ground followed by Reckoning then Renewal alone costs 175 energy before efficiency mods) but to upkeep the steep energy drain cost required to heal himself and allies (2e/s himself, 5e/s per ally), completely ignoring the fact he has only 100 base energy. Only true tanks like Chroma, Wukong, Inaros, Nidus, etc... really can consistently benefit from Rage in late game content.

Not only that, but he needs range so that his synergies work consistently, strength and duration so that his synergies are strong and last a decent amount of time, and efficiency because he has no way of gaining or reducing energy costs in his kit. Where do we fit survivability mods, rage, and the required Natural Talent due to his absurdly long cast time on Reckoning?

His kit relies *heavily* on the synergies within it in order to work, and Zenurik doesn't work while channeling Renewal, which is a very important part of his kit.

This all is WHY he needs health orb generation so that he works with Equilibrium, or energy regen and/or cost reduction built into his kit. He is extremely reliant on comboing his abilities together to make them work, similar to Limbo and Nidus who also have similar mechanics built into their kits.

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[NightmareT12]

Hallowed Ground is, and I quote, righteous fire and it should NOT be grass. I am SUPER ADAMANT about this.

That's all I have to say for now.

Edited April 29, 2017 by NightmareT12

[(PSN)Oreic-Reynier]

Just now, NightmareT12 said:

Hallowed Ground is, and I quote, righteous fire and it should NOT be grass. I am SUPER ADAMANT about this.

That's all I have to say.

Totally agree. I actually miss the old effect. Should re implement it, but have the individual balls of fire not all share the same animation. By that I mean they should not all be at the same frame in the animation sequence all the time. 

[Svardraged]

I feel like hallowed ground should move with Oberon and be a full circle, it'd make the ability more offensively viable,  improve his synergies with reckoning and renewal and reduce his need to constantly recast.

I agree about the percentage of total armor stripping for reckoning and his debuffs needing to scale with Duration also.

[Evanescent]

On topic of Hallowed Ground being righteous fire:

I respect your opinion, but the idea is to sanctify the ground. There is nothing more sacred than the act of nurturing life, and that's why i think having vegetation suits it more than fire.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, (PS4)AtomicEyekon said:

-snip-

Heh, you are putting it like the Devs have to listen to the player indications step-by-step, lmao. Sure, from time to time they are more open to suggestions than usual, like in Oberon's case, but in the end they make the game by their own vision, that is how they have gotten so far.

[Svardraged]

I feel like hallowed ground should move with Oberon and be a full circle, it'd make the ability more offensively viable,  improve his synergies with reckoning and renewal and reduce his need to constantly recast, plus if you make the visual grass, life would spring up wherever Oberon moved.

Additional idea iron renewal should activate no mater what order hallowed ground and renewal are cast in otherwise you have to toggle healing off then on again whenever you want the buff.

 

Thanks DE. 😁

(P.s. plz buff Cycron)

[Music4Therapy]

imo, we should focus on making small changes that'll make a big impact. The bigger the idea, the less likely it is to happen. We as a community need to come together and push for simple fixes to the large problems that exist as those are the fixes most likely to come to fruition. There are some solutions out there that fit the bill that don't include completely reworking his 2nd ability, despite how cool of an idea this may be.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Evanescent]

Absolutely not.

Let's not tie the dev's hands because let's be real: we will never approve what the majority don't want by sheer numbers, and that means necessary nerfs and rebalances will never go through. Players don't know how to design games, I'm sorry. We all think we have the best ideas but that's not true. 

Let the devs do their job and if they screw up let them know. That's s far as it should go.

Give the community an inch, and they'll take a mile.

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

-- make power strength on his 1 effect the percentage of health used, not number of orbs

-- make the armor debuff on reckoning be effected by total armor, not current armor

 

rework finished after that

[chainchompguy3]

Quote

Added

Quote

"Also, Hallowed Ground should provide some sort of bonus to Oberon (maybe allies?) that grants him bonuses similar to Limbo when he is in the Rift, perhaps energy per second or energy per kill while he in on HG.

to the OP

Wanted you guys to know I made a change to the original post.

I see that you visited the thread I posted a link to.

I, personally am kind of "Eh" about the idea.

It's certainly better than Equilibrium for energy gain, but I only really see it being highly effective for High-range builds, which will likely be using Overextended, meaning lower powerstrength, meaning less kills with abilities...

It could work, and it rewards upkeeping the team-buffing Hallowed ground. But again, "Eh".

 

I'd almost say make it something like:

"Upon successfully activating the Iron Renewal effect on yourself or an ally, the Hallowed ground used will become infused with the energy, and slowly refund energy for as long as it lasts. Energy gain is based on the number of allies granted the buff, and is limited to Oberon alone."

(Previous version, that I couldn't bring myself to delete:)

Spoiler

"Upon successfully activating the Iron Renewal effect on yourself or an ally, the Hallowed ground used will become infused with the energy, and now grant a %chance for "Retribution", increased based on the # of allies buffed (to a cap) (Retribution prevents a single instance of damage, and transfers it back unto it's dealer). This lasts for as long as renewal is maintained. When renewal is deactivated, the energy slowly leaves the hallowed ground, and the buff changes from a teamwide "retribution" buff, to an Oberon-exclusive Energy regeneration buff, again, based on the # of allies buffed (to a cap)."

THIS IS TERRIBLY CONVOLUTED, this is NOT a good idea.

I want the energy regen to reward Oberon for a job well done, preferably for aiding allies.

The issue is that the ability of his that aids teammates, Renewal, is already jam-packed with effects.