Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[BansheePrime]

Because it's a channeled ability and no channeled abilities get energy from EV while active.

[Iccotak]

1 minute ago, Phalian said:

The only problem is that we can't let up yet. If we want Oberon to truly shine along with the other warframes who have been released recently and received great reworks (aka, those who aren't Ash, lord knows he needs to be put right back on that list) because as of right now, he is slightly better than before but no where close to his competition. 

Watch this first. Then make your judgement.

 

[Cyborg-Rox]

Why would you ever need Oberon and Trinity in the same party?

[Ardhanarishvara]

13 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

Oberon has too much bloat! We have powers with 4-8 effects each, and they are holding him back.

Personally I think the game would be a whole lot better if other warframes had as many effects on some of their abilities. Still, for a jack of all trades like Oberon, having many effects to make up for their general lack of potency shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)AFLIBERATOR said:

Just want to spread this link to Mogamu's breakdown video for Oberon'a rework. Very well detailed explanation and presentation to back it up, recommend watch.

 

omg his opinions.

1) "Smite doesn't have good scaling and scales like crap" <--- He has no clue about what he is talking about. 35% of the targets health split and dealt to enemies around it. Hit an eximus unit next to his friend, his friends die. Says its useless against enemies with armor, completely ignores the fact that his 4 strips armor. Synergy. Use them together. He wants Oberon to be press 1 to win, or press 4 to win. His damage is great in high level missions due to the way it scales (Oberon trashed the Juggernaut in the design council mission with smite) esp with 4xCP and will be even more crazy if Reckoning is capable of 100% armor stripping.

2)  Suggests the only changes that need to me made are MOAR DAMAGE, completely ignores the fact that he ran out of energy many times and would have been running to and from the energy orb dispenser if it wasn't for Rage... which shouldn't be a required mod.

Giving Oberon an energy gain mechanic literally solves every problem he was talking about in the video. Less efficiency mods on you, more power strength mods on your Warframe AND no longer having a dependency on Rage. Best of both worlds.

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 minutes ago, Cyborg-Rox said:

Why would you ever need Oberon and Trinity in the same party?

Was about to ask this myself.

[Music4Therapy]

4 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Watch this first. Then make your judgement.

 

You realize that at the end of the video he says that he feels like Oberon needs an energy regen mechanic, right? Even with a Sahasa Kubrow and only Red Veil Syndicate weapons he had energy problems.

That is what we are all saying here. This is all basic knowledge in this video, or should be if you are on an Oberon Megathread. Oberon has an energy problem. I agree. He agrees. Most agree.

[Music4Therapy]

4 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

In Oberon's current state, he is very combo heavy and relies heavily on his Hallowed Ground + Reckoning/Renewal combos to succeed, both of which are costly combinations. Typically, you run atleast 3 out of these 4 mods if not all four: Rage, Streamline, Fleeting Expertise, or (Primed) Flow in order to keep the heal up on allies and be able to use the synergies with your kit. That doesn't leave much room for survivability, augments, natural talent, strength, duration, and range. If you use Fleeting Expertise, you are going to need to use Primed Continuity up to 105-115% depending on whether you prefer r3 or r4 Fleeting. This is the core of current Oberon's problem, he doesn't have enough slots.

Lets say Oberon were to receive an energy mechanic similar to Nidus, which is what Oberon needs. Lets say while he is on his Hallowed Ground, for each enemy a smite projectile hits, he receives 5 energy. Just as an example.

This would be an example build:

This would be a "balanced" build, with 160% eff, 155% dur, 211% str, and 85% eff. If Oberon were able to sustain power usage like Nidus using a build like this, he would be in a good spot, imo. With various builds, I can see him becoming a frontline, armor crushing support frame.

 

[pavlo555]

Just now, Music4Therapy said:

omg his opinions.

1) "Smite doesn't have good scaling and scales like crap" <--- He has no clue about what he is talking about. 35% of the targets health split and dealt to enemies around it. Hit an eximus unit next to his friend, his friends die. Says its useless against enemies with armor, completely ignores the fact that his 4 strips armor. Synergy.

You have to cast - Hallowed ground (50 en), Reckoning(100en), 3-4 smites(75-100 en), resulting in a whoppy 225-250 to remove a really small ground of enemies?

Also, forced synergies are pretty S#&amp;&#036; - Saryn may have worked, but cmon - she uses like 2 of her abilities - molt and spores, because rest of forced synergies are eh...

[sulusdacor]

so did a bit more missions with him today. (kuva floods + sorties)

so far what i find myself is turning the toggle just on and immidiatly after that off to get the armor buff. the toggle is fine, but i usally only turned it on if  i or my team needed the heal really. it was mostly a "get the armor buff".  so the toggle seems nice, but most of his other abilitys are static ones you have to put down, so i kinda like the "non toggle a bit more here. although the toggle was quite good for some mission you had to run through the level. so i could leave it on and heal. but the toggle currently causes him to have way more energy issues then before.

for the higher level mission is used my 2 a lot and it felt a bit like a discount loki or nyx. but i kinda had to put down more then one instance of that skill to achive some okay cc (with stretch in the build,due to the radial skill shape). that again cost more energy. which is a bit of a problem,since his energy pool is only 100. for his current needed ability spam this is way to low. even if you are very conservative with your energy spending and only use 1 hallowed ground and the heal, your nearly at half your energy after that. so there should probably either be some mechanic to help that or the passive could be changed to support the energy cost.

there are a few other problem still with his 2. if someone is standing only on a crate or some other minor higher ground they dont get the armor buff. then there is the radial shape which seems like a good idea, but if you put range on and you usally want to create mor distance from your skill cast ppoint to your enemys, it does not happens. which in a game where higher elevel enemys do a lot of damage is a bit of a problem.

to that comes that the "synergy" between 2 and 3 feels very forced. i really only use the 3rd for the armor buff. which should not be the case. althrough not  very much it is still some additional armor value that you want to have. the synergy should be more a nice to have, works well together thing. currently it is a want this and that to get the effect. so maybe have the armor be static on the heal and a percentage armor if ppls stay on hallowed ground(like 25%?). if ppls stay on hallowed ground and you cast heal at the same time, they would get some bonus like 100 armor and 10% armor addional. so it would not be game breaking,but a bonus you can use if you want.

the other thing is the 2 and 4th. i mostly used the 4 for the knockdown. there is again a bit of the problem, that the area coverage of both ability is different and you end up casting more hallowed ground to get a good coverage. for the 4th i felt the damage was not so bad. he is no dps frame after all and the knock down is nice. so it is a nice additon, but again here is energy pool at base is super low. so you cast it only once, since you want hallowed ground there, after the cast you are "empty".

as for his passive i really hope it gets changed. either to some sort of help for his energy problem or his skill get tweaked so this is not the case anymore and he can have another passive that is more usefull. the current one is very specific and seems like a bandage to get ppls to use the animal companions, by not adressing the problems these compaions have in the first place. it maybe nice if they were on par with the sentinels, but they are not. the other part is that nothing about his skill set says companion support. he does not summon any ai. he does not boost the companion armro as far as i know. yes the heal works, but so does trinitys. so i feel his passive is out of place. to that comes it is very situational. he is the nature paladin warrior mystic guy, that currently needs a lot of abiltiy combination to make him work. should his passive not go with this theme? give him an aura, or some sort of team support. or some sort of nature growth mechanic, or some sort of additional energy token system to support the skill use, or some sort of offensive warrior/paladin passive. there are a lot of options here.

so overall i really hope there are some tweaks/balancing following and he does not get left like other reworked frame (volt/mag). because he is on a good path with some issues, that can be ironed out and make him a nice option for early to mid game and even later game stages if sued correctly and a viable option over other frames currently in the game.

thx for reading.

fight on tenno.

 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

1 minute ago, pavlo555 said:

You have to cast - Hallowed ground (50 en), Reckoning(100en), 3-4 smites(75-100 en), resulting in a whoppy 225-250 to remove a really small ground of enemies?

Also, forced synergies are pretty S#&amp;&#036; - Saryn may have worked, but cmon - she uses like 2 of her abilities - molt and spores, because rest of forced synergies are eh...

What makes Saryn work so well is the fact that her abilities all work well on their own but when combined can be devastating, a twsted mixture of Viral, Corrosive, and Toxin procs. The ability to spread Corrosive and Viral across such a large area with a decent amount of damage is what makes her work so well. If anything lives through that, it probably won't be for much longer. 

[Synataph]

I don't see him as a "Jack of all Trades." I think his abilities don't reflect on that term. I like him as more of a Paladin. I hope DE can look into Oberon again and this time instead of tweakin abilities, just give him a new ability that can replace one of them or even reworking all his abilities. Just my opinion. I want Oberon to be good.

[LuckyCharm]

7 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

The community viewing Oberon strictly as a JOAT is what is holding him back as a frame. While frames like Octavia, Nidus, Rhino, Frost, etc... go around like 1-man armies capable of doing many things well.

He lays down a piece of carpet that removes status effects and that makes him the master? What about Nezha, who can cast his Halo on allies which does the same and his Firewalker ability is basically Hallowed Ground on steroids. Firewalker gives status and CC immunity, is guaranteed to proc heat, follows him, grants him a speed buff, synergizes with his 2, and deals damage. Hell, everything Oberon does Nezha does better (and faster)

So allies having to run over nezhas thin little firewalker trail is easier than over a big carpet of hallowed ground, and easier to maintain? As for the warding halo, sure an extra 700 hp shield is helpful but thats why oberon has an armor buff and a heal

[Music4Therapy]

13 minutes ago, pavlo555 said:

You have to cast - Hallowed ground (50 en), Reckoning(100en), 3-4 smites(75-100 en), resulting in a whoppy 225-250 to remove a really small ground of enemies?

Also, forced synergies are pretty S#&amp;&#036; - Saryn may have worked, but cmon - she uses like 2 of her abilities - molt and spores, because rest of forced synergies are eh...

1) Regarding the energy costs, if he had a mechanic within his kit that allowed him to gain energy like other frames that rely on synergy to work like Saryn (reduced spore cost by half when cast on molt, grants energy for spores popped via toxic lasg), Limbo (2 e/s in rift, energy per kill in rift), Nidus, and Octavia then it would be a non-issue. Also, if he had such a mechanic then you wouldn't need to build efficiency/Rage in order to function like he does in the video. I would suggest his Smite granting energy for each target the projectiles it creates hits while he is on Hallowed Ground, similar to Nidus's 1.

2) Since when did Oberon need to be a top tier damage frame? Alright, let's ignore that point. Regardless of whether the enemy is level 100 or level 1000, his combo is going to remain relevant. Cast smite on the eximus unit in the pack, it takes 35% of its health and shields and distributes it to all the little guys who then get wrecked. Against non-armored units, its amazing. Against armored units? Not running 4xCP? It's okay, Oberon can strip armor. And with the energy gain mechanic I mentioned? He'd strip a lot/all of it. His kit remains relevant after your weapons falloff.

An energy gaining mechanic solves all of his problems without making him press 1 to win like new Saryn or press 4 to win like old Saryn.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[Ardhanarishvara]

We have a million ways to deal with energy problems. Guardian Derision + Rage, or just Rage in general. Sahasa Kubrow. Arcane Energize. Syndicate weapons/mods. Energy restore pizzas.

Energy regain is not an issue. It's his energy POOL that is holding him back, now, as it prevents him from utilizing his full kit as well as he could for very long. Buffing it up to 200 minimum, possibly 225, would fix that very well.

But still, even then, there's a handful of quality of life changes that could certainly help Oberon quite a bit. Like not having teammates have to stand on hallowed ground and THEN cast Renewal to offer Iron Renewal, for example.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Ardhanarishvara

[Chipputer]

Suddenly when Oberon is in the spotlight all sorts of frames are Jack of all Trades, eh?

Is this kind of like how kids are now saying Radiation is horrible but will swear on their lives that Nyx's Chaos is amazing CC?

[Music4Therapy]

3 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Suddenly when Oberon is in the spotlight all sorts of frames are Jack of all Trades, eh?

Is this kind of like how kids are now saying Radiation is horrible but will swear on their lives that Nyx's Chaos is amazing CC?

How is this even relevant. Explain to me how Octavia, Rhino, or any of the other frames I mentioned don't fill as many if not more roles than Oberon?

[-Onyx-Phalian]

9 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

We have a million ways to deal with energy problems. Guardian Derision + Rage, or just Rage in general. Sahasa Kubrow. Arcane Energize. Syndicate weapons/mods. Energy restore pizzas.

Energy regain is not an issue. It's his energy POOL that is holding him back, now, as it prevents him from utilizing his full kit as well as he could for very long. Buffing it up to 200 minimum, possibly 225, would fix that very well.

But still, even then, there's a handful of quality of life changes that could certainly help Oberon quite a bit. Like not having teammates have to stand on hallowed ground and THEN cast Renewal to offer Iron Renewal, for example.

Let's admit, things like increasing base Energy is probably going to come with his upcoming Prime. All we can do right now is try to help him mechanically. 

[Iccotak]

2 minutes ago, Phalian said:

Let's admit, things like increasing base Energy is probably going to come with his upcoming Prime. All we can do right now is try to help him mechanically. 

Exactly

[Music4Therapy]

8 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

We have a million ways to deal with energy problems. Guardian Derision + Rage, or just Rage in general. Sahasa Kubrow. Arcane Energize. Syndicate weapons/mods. Energy restore pizzas.

Requiring being shot in the face is not a solution, its a bandaid. And not a very effective one. He isn't tanky enough to have being shot in the face be a viable method of energy restoration unless you're stuck on the star chart. His kit shouldn't be balanced around a particular weapon or pet. Zenurik doesn't work while Renewal is active. If he had a solution to his energy problem in his kit, he would be able to use his mod slots for something else. Right now, Oberon has to dedicate 3-4 mod slots MINIMUM to a combination of Rage, Streamline, Fleeting Expertise, and Primed Flow. THEN, you need atleast 1 range mod. That is 4-5 slots. If you used Fleeting, your duration sucks so you're going to want to throw on Primed Continuity. That 5-6 slots already used, you have 2-3 slots open for augments, strength, more range/duration, survivability, and mobility. With an energy gaining mechanic, you just freed up 1-2 mod slots and will have more build paths.

10 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Energy regain is not an issue. It's his energy POOL that is holding him back, now, as it prevents him from utilizing his full kit as well as he could for very long. Buffing it up to 200 minimum, possibly 225, would fix that very well.

You literally JUST contradicted yourself. You just said his energy pool is preventing him from utilizing his kit for long. Energy SUSTAIN via an energy gaining mechanic is the solution to that problem. Every other frame that relies on synergies within their kit to work, Saryn/Nidus/Octavia/Limbo, all have ways to cut energies costs and/or gain energy within their kit. Oberon doesn't. His energy pool will likely be increased when his prime variant is released. Not only would the ability to gain energy in his kit help him utilize his full kit, it would allow him to use more power strength/duration mods to make what abilities he has stronger and would be an indirect buff to the rest of his kit.

[n_0x]

 

32 minutes ago, Iccotak said:

Watch this first. Then make your judgement.

 

So if the armor shred is so good why did he need to have a corrosive projection on his builds? If he's doing "the top damage" why is every damage frame still doing more damage? Also bouncing off the first point, why do we need Oberon's armor shred when a squad can run 4 corrosive projections without him? Why do we need his heals when trin, equinox, and nidus can heal better with better results? 

But biggest point even IF his kit becomes mechanically ok, why would he be considered pick over anyone else that does what he can do but better and easier?

[(PSN)StarDustKillah]

I just wanted a better ultimate. Something new, I don't think Reckoning is useful enough to be worth 100 energy anymore, it's outdated.

 

I wanted something badass & Paladin like... I wanna summon Sauron's mace & go nuts lol.

 

But from what I've seen, I like this new Hallowed Ground & Renewal combo. Very cool addition... his 1 & 4 are extremely lack luster still though :(

 

[n_0x]

22 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Suddenly when Oberon is in the spotlight all sorts of frames are Jack of all Trades, eh?

Is this kind of like how kids are now saying Radiation is horrible but will swear on their lives that Nyx's Chaos is amazing CC?

Because Nyx's Chaos actually promises that enemies will fight each other as the ability reads and quote," With a powerful psychic blast, Nyx causes mass hysteria on the battlefield by confusing all enemies to attack random factions." It does not however give them a rad proc, and leave you praying to RNGesus that they don't look in your direction and go for you, and hope they kill each other.

[Souldude836]

Let me break this down in my opinion.
 

His 1: Lacks any kind of scaling or damage whatsoever. Even post-hotfix, it's still not good at all. I'd feel more comfortable if it was either a) redesigned from the ground up, or b) made to synergize with Hallowed Ground (a solid debuff or cc would be appreciated).

His 2: My only gripe with hallowed ground is the range and accessibility. I'd like very much to see hallowed ground function sort of like Maim, where it is a 360 degree radius centered around Oberon that follows him and gradually drains his energy.

His 3: Alone, I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. I don't feel like the healing you get from it is worth the amount of energy it drains? But this is the most indifferent ability in his kit for me. I like how it synergizes with Hallowed Ground.

His 4: Hasn't changed much, but I still don't like it much. I don't even dislike it for the lack of damage potential because that's not what Oberon is for. I dislike it because it's the only reliable form of good CC he has, Hallowed Ground does small amounts with radiation procs but radiation doesn't really confuse enemies the way it's described to. And so we have to rely on his 1 and his 4 to keep enemies off us and chip away at their health.

 

I currently don't like how energy hungry he is. I only feel comfortable using him with rage AND max efficiency, since his heal doesn't do much initially to keep you alive. I like where your heads are at with synergizing his abilities with Hallowed Ground, and I'd love to see that explored a bit more. I don't mind at all having an entire kit revolving around one mechanic or ability (Limbo and Nidus are incredible examples of this with the Rift and the Stack system), but when the synergy is as lackluster as Oberon's it alienates his usage across the board. His 1 could act the same until you have Hallowed Ground active, and then some CC or extra damage or a change to the way the orbs work/track could be made. His 4, honestly could just use some number changes, because it's much too similar to Frost's Avalanche (and far worse) to really justify using as avidly. His 3 I have to explore a bit more, and would love to see comments for under this.
 

Over all I don't hate Oberon. But I'm not a fan. He has potential to be great and to thematically fit his "Paladin" nametag, and be a solid alternative to other healers in game. But where he's at now, I'm only using him because his Feyarch Skin is badass. But that's just my two cents, feel free to comment or what have you.

[Souldude836]

1 hour ago, Iccotak said:

The more you increase your range it completes the circle

Which is a benign fix to a change he needs. If it were a circle at base, range should just be able to increase the radius. Having a semicircle ability that you have to stand on to get full effect out of him doesn't make much sense to me.