Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Hellmaker2004]

On 2017-05-04 at 10:46 PM, Schtirk said:

Smite

This sounds like a really good idea, it does feel that radiated foes draws to little attention currently and by simply making foes have a higher odd of shooting each other it will be more reliable, now clearly they would have to thread carefully since Oberon should not replace any of the frames that are more dedicated towards confusing foes.

 

On 2017-05-04 at 10:46 PM, Schtirk said:

Hallowed Ground

I agree on both cases, i also never understand why DE keep insisting on the line or now cone shaped area it cover instead of a circle. It would be a nice QoL change to make it a circle but it looks like they are insisting on it being more line shaped.

And the idea that the buff should stay for a few short seconds even after people leave the area only make sense, this is a fast paced game and people are very unlikely to stand still. One can even argue that standing still is the opposite on how the game is designed in a survivability aspect since foes accuracy drops of severely at fast moving frames and we also have the dodge roll damage resistance to enforce the fast paced action.

 

On 2017-05-04 at 10:46 PM, Schtirk said:

Renewal

I both agree with you here and disagree. Primarily i disagree with you on the part that there is any incentives for allies to stay close, i strongly disagree on this. Affinity is only shared so long and spreading out loot is not helping anyone. However me disagreeing on that does not mean that everyone playing is the best co-op buddy out there, neither does it mean that i think renewal is perfect the way it is.

 

I do however agree that renewal should be made more into a aura around Oberon to make it easier to manage. And everything else you said about it sounds spot on.

 

On 2017-05-04 at 10:46 PM, Schtirk said:

Reckoning

 I think they should add one last thing to Reckoning, "Foes that do survive the initial damage from Reckoning should get a debuff, and if those foes die before that debuff runs out it has a chance equal to that of foes killed by Reckoning to drop a health orb".

This way the health orb aspect of Reckoning does not diminish as the damage does, and it promotes more team play since together Frames can kill faster than a single frame can.

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

9 hours ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Every 'frame has energy problems. Literally all of them do. It's the nature of the game that energy is finite, and that you're going to run out - especially if and when you start coming up against Energy Leech Eximus.

I only run Streamline and Rage for energy, and Continuity and Constitution for duration, but they also help with Renewal's energy cost. As long as I use my abilities sparingly and play smart, I've never had any significant energy problems. Nekros' Shadows of the Dead is really the only thing aside from Energy Leech Eximus that throws a wrench in the works.

If you're still having energy problems, I posit that it's your playstyle and strategy that is causing issue, and that you might try using your abilities more sparingly, or modding your 'frame in a different direction.

Except at high lvl there is no use sparingly. There is use all the time or die and Oberon is a caster so he depends on keeping his ability effects up constantly to stay alive and CC. That's when his energy economy issues become very apparent. Low to mid level you're never gonna see it. Limbo, Octavia, Nidus, all rely on ability upkeep just like him and every single one of them has some form of energy return. Even Nekros can use equilibrium. Then all the other casters that don't have energy return have something else or are duration based so you only have to worry about initial cast cost. These duration based casters are like Volt or Vauban. Then casters like ash that have energy reduction mechanics. Oberon isn't a duration based caster he has drain.. heavy drain on top of initial cast cost. He depends on his abilities effects to always be up though and unlike duration based casters who can utilize energy siphon or Zenurik to much greater effect then Oberon he can't use them as effectively. So yea. It isn't just playstyle. He's an ability upkeep caster that encourages a playstyle he can't sustain and at high lvl scenarios you need to play that way to stay alive.

[The_Grimmrock]

okay, Ive put in another week of Oberon and here is my Current Wishlist:

Allow Health Conversion to pickup health orbs even at full

Allow Reckoning to spawn health orbs on enemy hit.

 

I think this is reasonable if we arent going to get our range requests addressed for HG+Reckoning.

*to reiterate: Radius of HG = 18 and scale same as Reckoning, Reckoning range increase to 18*

[Draknus2009]

So possible bug with Oberon? When playing games while having Pheonix Renewal equipped people seem to just die randomly. No damage taken. They just die. This includes objectives in defense (like the living sortie Defense Objective dude, resulting in instant defeats out of nowhere).

Can you please look at this?

 

EDIT: Found a video showing it. 

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Draknus2009
found a video showing the glitch

[Rhinestone.Eyes]

6 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

I think it was just sortie 2 being bugged since I didn't have phoenix renewal equipped and kept flatout dying.

It would also kill me, the oberon, mid mission

[Proofter]

Recently I was playing and noticed strange thing. While I was using Renewal with augment Phoenix Renewal enemy grineer was able to suddenly oneshot me and I was not able to revive (there wasn't bleedout state). So after that I was completing defense mission on Sorties and our whole team were mysteriously dying even they had ability to be resurrected by me in instant. Even the guy we were defending died at some point in the twinkling of an eye without chance to be saved and mission was failed. I thought it must to be something with status effects, because on Sortie enemys were constantly giving everyone them.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Proofter

[Urlan]

Viral status on enemies can be a crazy thing, at one point, a player downed by a critical status procc'd viral shot was deader than dead and could not be revived even. It could be that the viral effect was doing something similar in your game. Did the quick death's happen in other Oberon runs you tried?

[Proofter]

No, only Powerfist could do that. I never thought that viral status could do this crazy, but isn't Phoenix Renewal supposed to protect from death even it's caused by viral effect? Wiki doesn't say anythyng about being annihilated by viral proc without chance being saved, so I expected to be usefull with my res. Also, everyone were standing on Hallowed Ground so I expected that it will at least protect us from status effetcs. I can't understand is it supposed to be like that or not.

[HalfDarkShadow]

You know, that's an interesting bit you brought up here, about complexity versus the intended target this kind of Warframe is for. Although I don't believe complexity is some kind of bad thing, I do think however it always depends on context.

For example, having a mechanically complex Warframe like Limbo makes sense. It's not a beginner-esque Warframe; in which you can obtain much later in the game, and it's core philosophy is specifically for those kind of players that want something with more layers and depth. Same could even be said about Sayrn to a good extent.
Oberon however isn't that. Sure he's no where near as detailed as the former two, but the fact that he is a more-or-less early Warframe to obtain but has a bit of a mod-minimum that you would need to really see him work isn't something earlier players will have access to right then and there (or may not even be aware of). Though one could argue that it would be a great opportunity for said newer player to have an incentive to start learning more about the mod system and it's intricacies in relation to the Warframes/Weapons themselves.

But still nonetheless lol.

---

Lastly, I would like to express my opinion that I do believe he is far better off then he ever was, which is always a good step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned. I never expected him to be able to easily do Sortie-level content but I do hope he is a bit more further looked into to be at least proficient at start-chart level content (level 1 to 50-ish, give-or-take). A tiny bit more if anything haha.
Keep in mind though, I haven't played Oberon near enough to where I can give any meaningful input beyond what I've mentioned already. So unfortunately I can't really say much about the other parts of your post since I would need more time with him so I can fully understand where you're coming from. So hopefully others will chime in here!

Anyways, great post/read! You definitely have some interesting points worth discussing about (:

Edited May 7, 2017 by HalfDarkShadow

[AdunSaveMe]

It "failed" because his kit is clunky and inefficient.

Not because of how complex it is, or how hard it is to do, but because of what you do and how you do it. There's a big difference.

[LazyKnight]

6 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

You do realize klunk and complexity are essentially the same thing, right?

Clunky is awkward, and is not necessarily complex. Clunky is more of a badly designed or not designed in an intuitive way. A complex system that is intuitive can easily be understood. 

[KnightCole]

I agree his new skill synergy is a bit complex to get the max benefit.  We gotta stack Range so that his heal, carpet and #4 actually go any kind of distance.  We gotta hit mobs with both 1 and 2 before 4 is worth anything........to much to get benefit from his skills.

We need pwr str, so his 1-4 have any power, and we need Efficiency so tha we can keep his #3 going.  Meanwhile, to get any of those high, we gotta sacrifice 1.  I went with 100% eff, 249% str and no additional range.  I have a -55% eff mod.

My Pwr str is ok, ofc, I dont go much past 40-50 lvl mobs.  My eff can keep my abilities up for awhile, but the range is horrific.

Also, how in order to get his #3s armor and health regen thing working, you gotta first ensure you cast 2, which in a heated battle is just wasted time.

His #2 and #3 should totally just be an energy draining aura of like 0.5 each, with eff increasing the cost from there, so we can keep both on us, giving us the armor/health bonus, while emitting the armor stripping debuff on the enemies. 

It'd actually be neat, that if instead of healing orbs, Oberon's #4 exploded in healing orbs like his old #3 emitted, chasing down allies and healing them up, or just exploded in health that instantly healed all near by allies. 

Oberon is a good solo frame now though, his #2/3 combo, + armor and + healing over time makes him surprisingly tough, with rage and energy siphon, he can keep it going awhile, but his other 2 abilities kinda become side shows and ones I rarely cast to conserve energy to keep the 2/3 up...

I wish we could use all his skills and they are all buffed up by our builds. 

[low1991]

20 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Back before patch 13,3 yeah. Lets all keep referencing stuff that date back to 2014.

Is there any form rule saying that you can't reference to topics/matters 3+yrs ago? I dont recall....

[Urlan]

Perhaps Oberon is Scott had personal investment in Oberon's design similar to how Inaros was championed by DE Glen.

[Syndrella]

Oberon is now in a good place but some tweaks could be good for him but that energy boost and the currently working abilities are not bad and now you can go with him further than before but some of you said the first and fourth abilities are a bit useless now in some way. Personally I would like to see changes in his ultimate and lastly 1 way given him to regain some energy when casting without rage, siphon, equilibrium. 

[Doomsknightmare]

I appreciate DE's rework for Oberon coz they didn't make him a complete different frame but indeed make him more viable in high level, yet there're still

Two issues about Oberon right now:

 

1.The combo of Hallowed Ground + Renewal/Reckoning rocks but sucks as well :

Armor buff for the whole team & scaling armor debuff for enemies sounds great but it's kinda lackluster in practical usage because of the limited range of HG; to make the combo works, it needs your teammates(including you, for armor buff) and enemies to stand EXACTLY on HG which means even if the object is only slightly above or below the platform covered by HG(Let's say u just stand on a cache on the platform) the combo hardly works. Remember, Warframe is not a 2D platform game so you dont expect you, your teammates and enemies to stand on the exact same place. As a result, your teammates are running and bullet jumping around and enemies are coming from everywhere, so u need to text your teammates everytime "come here, stand exactly on the platform I'm standing so I can give u a buff" but you can't tell enemies to stand where you are, right ? 

 

Solution:

Either make the range of HG much larger(maybe a full circle with larger radius) or change how the combo works(it only requires Oberon himself rather than teammates/enemies standing on HG)

 

2.Health orb drop from enemies killed by Reckoning won't do him anything at all :

In low level, Reckoning can sure one shot every enemy so they drop health orbs(with a 50% chance unaffected by mod), but how on earth does Oberon need a health orb in low level? Especially with his recent buff, "Armor Renewal", I'm sure Oberon won't need a single health orb at all in low level(actually nobody needs a health orb in low level)

In high level, Reckoning just can not make a kill, even with it's recent damage buff(50% more damage on enemies affected by radiation proc). Reckoning's damage = 50% impact dmg + 50% radiation dmg so it works best against Corpus, however, an Oberon with high power strength still needs to cast Reckoing multiple times to make a kill in Sortie 1 Corpus missions, not to mention that Reckoning barely deals any damage on high level Grineer/Infested(sure your can use the combo with HG to reduce enemies armor but since your cant completely remove their armor... and the base damage of Reckoning is too low to wipe out their health)

 

Solution:

A. Add damage scaling to Reckoning, make it similar to reworked Smite(damge of which is also 50% impact + 50% radiation)

Reckoning now does base damge + 45% max health+shield of the victim(this 45% won't be increased by base dmg buff on radiated enemies) which makes sure most enemies(especially Corpus and Infested) got hit twice by Reckoning will be DEAD.

 

B.Health orb drops from enemies got hit (rather than killed) by Reckoning, but each enemy can only drop one health orb no matter how many times they got hit by Reckoning.

 

Thanks for reading !

[Doomsknightmare]

I appreciate DE's rework for Oberon coz they didn't make him a complete different frame but indeed make him more viable in high level, yet there're still

Two issues about Oberon right now:

 

1.The combo of Hallowed Ground + Renewal/Reckoning rocks but sucks as well :

Armor buff for the whole team & scaling armor debuff for enemies sounds great but it's kinda lackluster in practical usage because of the limited range of HG; to make the combo works, it needs your teammates(including you, for armor buff) and enemies to stand EXACTLY on HG which means even if the object is only slightly above or below the platform covered by HG(Let's say u just stand on a cache on the platform) the combo hardly works. Remember, Warframe is not a 2D platform game so you dont expect you, your teammates and enemies to stand on the exact same place. As a result, your teammates are running and bullet jumping around and enemies are coming from everywhere, so u need to text your teammates everytime "come here, stand exactly on the platform I'm standing so I can give u a buff" but you can't tell enemies to stand where you are, right ? 

 

Solution:

Either make the range of HG much larger(maybe a full circle with larger radius) or change how the combo works(it only requires Oberon himself rather than teammates/enemies standing on HG)

 

2.Health orb drop from enemies killed by Reckoning won't do him anything at all :

In low level, Reckoning can sure one shot every enemy so they drop health orbs(with a 50% chance unaffected by mod), but how on earth does Oberon need a health orb in low level? Especially with his recent buff, "Armor Renewal", I'm sure Oberon won't need a single health orb at all in low level(actually nobody needs a health orb in low level)

In high level, Reckoning just can not make a kill, even with it's recent damage buff(50% more damage on enemies affected by radiation proc). Reckoning's damage = 50% impact dmg + 50% radiation dmg so it works best against Corpus, however, an Oberon with high power strength still needs to cast Reckoing multiple times to make a kill in Sortie 1 Corpus missions, not to mention that Reckoning barely deals any damage on high level Grineer/Infested(sure your can use the combo with HG to reduce enemies armor but since your cant completely remove their armor... and the base damage of Reckoning is too low to wipe out their health)

 

Solution:

A. Add damage scaling to Reckoning, make it similar to reworked Smite(damge of which is also 50% impact + 50% radiation)

Reckoning now does base damge + 45% max health+shield of the victim(this 45% won't be increased by base dmg buff on radiated enemies) which makes sure most enemies(especially Corpus and Infested) got hit twice by Reckoning will be DEAD.

 

B.Health orb drops from enemies got hit (rather than killed) by Reckoning, but each enemy can only drop one health orb no matter how many times they got hit by Reckoning.

 

Thanks for reading !

[moon.boots]

You know, I hadn't thought much of it at the time but I also ran into instant death while playing with an Oberon on the defense sortie. The defense target dropped way faster than usual, right at the start of the first wave when enemies were barely even spawning. I thought we were just unlucky, but maybe there's a bug here.

[IceColdHawk]

There is a bug currently where you randomly die for no reason. Was playing an excavation as octavia and inside a snowglobe with no enemies around. I insta died and had to use one of my 4 revives. There wasn't an oberon present.

Edited May 7, 2017 by IceColdHawk

[Fallen_Echo]

20 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

There is a bug currently where you randomly die for no reason. Was playing an excavation as octavia and inside a snowglobe with no enemies around. I insta died and had to use one of my 4 revives. There wasn't an oberon present.

So that was it, today i died inside the rift as limbo at the end of the wave when the counter was at 0:02

[Chipputer]

I thought this was tied to the Viral status and not Oberon? Whenever I'm hit with Viral and I die I will immediately insta-gib. When I'm not hit with Viral I go down as usual.

[Chipputer]

So him playing exactly the same way as before, except now you get a few benefits from standing in Hallowed Ground (or having enemies in it), with the minor change of HG not giving an armor buff without renewal up, is somehow too complex or whatever narrative you're trying to present?

Honestly. Try harder to dislike the rework. I don't think you dislike that you didn't get what you wanted out of it enough.

[Synpai]

Wishing all frames had hard capped, Synergized abilities similar to Mesa (If her 1 was also duration based she would be flawless).

You don't need to max out Power STR because she gets damage over time and you dont need range because you just keep reactivating her ult. All you need is efficiency, duration, and enough PWR STR to have max DR on shatter shield since her ult scales based on her weapons. This leaves you room for at least 2 utility mods, where as frames like Oberon are struggling to get something to work because you need a little bit of everything.

 

[Hellmaker2004]

1 hour ago, low1991 said:

Is there any form rule saying that you can't reference to topics/matters 3+yrs ago? I dont recall....

Indeed there is not, yet it is a very poor argument to use, it would in fact be an equally strong argument to say that Energy Vampire needs to be buffed because back before 13.3 Energy Vampire did not release remaining energy when a foe die.

Or perhaps Link needs to be buffed to offer up to 90% Damage resistance to Trinity because before patch 11.5, Ember could achieve that with Overheat.

 

Clearly i do not believe this, it is only there to prove my point in two very obvious cases.

 

Oberon needed this rework, but as many people have said he needs a little bit more tweaks to finish the edges.

 

Hallowed Ground - Should in my opinion been a circle instead of the now cone shape, although the cone is a increase in area covered compared to the line it used to be i still believe a circle not only would have made the skill easier to use, it would also have emphasized on him staying in the middle of the combat.

However, it could be used as a argument that he is primarily a back line caster and i would normally not disagree with that, if it were not for two of his other skills Reckoning and Renewal promotes him staying in the middle of combat to not only increase the odds of buffing and healing allies, but also to debuff and damage foes.

 

The biggest problem Hallowed Ground has is how the area it does effect is covered. Or as one would say how it does not cover the height axis, as many individuals before me have pointed out Warframe is a very fast paced action shooter and it is very unlikely that allies will remain in it for very long, the extended duration on Iron Renewal once renewal is deactivated is a perfect example on how it should be.

 

Reckoning - Suffers from another problem, although the damage is ok and it can provide decent crowd control, it will also strip foes from there armor for that extra bit of utility. 

But the health orb spawning should be changed, foes afflicted by Reckoning that survives should be debuffed for a short amount of time and if anything kills them during that duration then they should have a chance to drop the health orbs. This simple change would make it so Reckoning can be more reliable in later stages with it the healing aspect.

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, MarrikBroom said:

The words you use and all i see is 'you're whining, stop whining, you want the world. get off my game.'

 

Honestly you sound no better or different from AGGP at this point.

I like the rework, but I can see where it fails to address new issues that have cropped up because of its changes, and how the attempt at forced dependance has fallen down and actively hinders gameplay. I just think he needs some very VERY minor QoL to address those and while he's in a BETTER place now... i see problems that could be fixed likely very trivially and worth maybe a line of hotfix text.

Personally, I find threads like this useful. Oberon isn't that popular a warframe though played more than some due to ease of availability. Anything to improve Oberon to be more enticing to new players and even talking heads that don't play much like AGGP, are good in my book even if they don't go exactly the way I want. Its always better to say things that would make something better and work towards it than saying something is not good but better and to silence those seeking improvements.