Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[malekas]

2 minutes ago, Jobistober said:

Why would anyone do that?

And if we could refrain from turning this into a bash-anyone-who-likes-Oberon thread, that'd be great.

Wasn't trying to bash him,  I was just trying to make a point.  Renewal is the only thing that Oberon has. 

[Hopakkiin]

Just now, malekas said:

Wasn't trying to bash him,  I was just trying to make a point.  Renewal is the only thing that Oberon has. 

That's where you are wrong. Scaled damage, Radiation procs?

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

fix the armor debuff being calculated off of current armor values

[Jobistober]

Just now, malekas said:

Wasn't trying to bash him,  I was just trying to make a point.  Renewal is the only thing that Oberon has. 

Yeah, wasn't aimed directly at you. But I have to disagree about renewal. That's not his only trick, imo. From what I've read, I get the sense that a great deal of people who dislike him simply don't know how to mod him properly to fit their needs. Not saying that's you, just my general observations.

[MirageKnight]

14 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Ginger Bruhv said:

Technically speaking, every frame works fine. They do what they are designed to do, but this isn't a "fix" that the OP wants, it's another change that really doesn't need to happen after there already was a massive overhaul.

I'd hardly call that overhaul "massive". If it was truly massive, abilities would have been removed and replaced, not just tweaked and adjusted. What DE did to Excalibur and Limbo was, arguably, a massive overhaul.

[aligatorno]

47 minutes ago, malekas said:

Try running a sortie without Renewal. Does he still feel balanced? 

 

Every time someone defends the rework they're only talking about Renewal. Yeah, Renewal is great (though I still the energy drain is too high), but I kinda wish the rest of his kit was useful too. 

Try running a sortie with a Chroma without Vex and Elemental Word. Does he still feel balanced? The same can be applied to every single frame in the game. 

[Aeruhat]

Technically speaking, his abilities as per the DE tweak are much better than it was previously. He does however need an armor buff. He's supposed to be the group paladin/melee guy, but with his low armor, this falls terribly short. Even modding for extra armor is kind of a waste of space since we're severely limited on mod space and capacity.

Personally, I like him more now than before. His kit now makes more sense, and actually does work better together.

The other thing that does need a tweak is how much Hallowed Ground eats up your framerate when having multiple Oberon's in a group spamming it:

 

[FelixGrief]

26 minutes ago, Wrum said:

holy **** give it a rest already he works just fine.

He doesn't though. That's why I'm suggesting the changes. 

Oberon eats a LOT of energy. HG spawns in front of him when it should surround him like Frost. The damage dealt on Smite and Reckoning is minuscule unless you're running over 250% power strength. 

 

Oberon is fine but he's not good. I want Oberon to work in high levels. 

[Lord.Kaho]

tl;dr:

1. SMITE

• Orbs now proc Chaos and slows enemies.
• Augment no longer gives additional Radiation damage. Instead, it now provides a base 250% additional damage boost from all sources.

2. HALLOWED GROUND

• Deals scaling damage-over-time & slows enemies.
• Energy is now gradually restored while stepping on it and works while Renewal is active.
  (Also works with Sound Quake, Mend&Maim, Pacify and Provoke, World on Fire, Exalted weapons and other toggled abilities.)
• Casting Renewal while under it's effects provides a protective armor buffer with 1500 base health similar to Iron skin.

3. RENEWAL

• Is now back to being global range.
• Provides a base 90% damage reduction instead of armor.
• Heals over time consuming 0.25 energy per second.

4. RECKONING

• Enemies killed with Reckoning heals allies and give a flat 300 armor boost. 
  Surviving Enemies are:
• Now disarmed upon slam.
• Stripped of armor.
• Blinded with base duration of 30 seconds.
• Also has 80% chance to get a Viral status effect.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Lord.Kaho
Let me know if I missed anything. We Seriously need this buff to make him end-game viable.

[Hopakkiin]

1 minute ago, aligatorno said:

Try running a sortie with a Chroma without Vex and Elemental Word. Does he still feel balanced? The same can be applied to every single frame in the game. 

Try deploying a soldier without a rifle: Oh it works in real life too. ^^ 
If you are taking away something that will decrease combat efficency, it is always a bad idea, that's why the German military issues a set of equipment that costs 100k for each individual infantryman, just to increase it. That's also why you forma weapons. Combat efficency.

 

 

[(XBOX)Senor Twix]

10 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I'd hardly call that overhaul "massive". If it was truly massive, abilities would have been removed and replaced, not just tweaked and adjusted. What DE did to Excalibur and Limbo was, arguably, a massive overhaul.

That's all you got for me? Lol

[redeyedtreefrog]

At this point, I doubt anything will persuade DE to give any ground in terms of buffing him. They've made their rework, our complaints have been brushed off as greedy in the devstreams, and they've likely moved on to other things.

But good lord, if you're not going to give renewal high-level use aside from its bleedout reduction, at least fix the energy costs so that I can use renewal near...

nekros

specters

invasion mission allies

syndicate operatives

inaros' sandmen

and et cetera

As of right now, all of the above can "benefit" from Oberon's renewal... at the cost of 3 energy/second. And on many of the above, oberon's renewal will result in little to no noticeable effect, or won't even fully counteract their decaying health pools that are innate to most summons. As of right now, using oberon anywhere near a shield of shadows nekros is guaranteed to sap all of your energy in under a minute. full stop. Even built for efficiency and duration, the drain is absurd. And I don't want to see renewal stop affecting these things; this is one of only two good things that have come out of the mess that's been made out of renewal, and taking it away would be a slap in the face. Flat energy drain for renewal, or reversion back to a cast-based system which simply applies a buff.

[Jobistober]

I don't think Oberon is perfect, but is good enough at this point and plenty usable if no other changes were made.

Having said that, If he were to receive any other tweaks, I would only suggest that:

1) Smite damage not be spread across number of orbs
2) HG be hard locked at 360 degrees and only increase in size with range mods
3) Renewal have unlimited range again and provide more health/armor buffs to better balance with the energy that it currently consumes
4) Increase armor stripping of Reckoning to be able to attain 100% with a full strength build

Otherwise, I think Oberon is very usable and versatile. His build diversity is huge and I would venture to say that a lot of people just don't know how to mod him properly to get the results they want.

[Dreadwire]

Everyone is entitled an opinion.

but i do agree that oberon need a proper role. 

The main problem is his support skills are not so great. He is at volt lvl. But volt support skill are for more superior. And at this point not even "jack of all trade" label can be used to describe Oberon.

 

All in all. It be a miracle if DE even bother to do another rework. 

[Hypernaut1]

But what if I don't want to play with Trinity? 

I don't care if she's a better healer I don't like her playstyle. Oberon is viable and he's fun to me.

I couldn't care less about the meta. It doesn't matter of he isn't the "best" at a single thing when compared to a ton of frames (the fact that people use MULTIPLE frames as examples to tear him down is actually a strength) as long as he's good enough to get through tough content... He's good

[FelixGrief]

 

7 minutes ago, Dreadwire said:

Everyone is entitled an opinion.

but i do agree that oberon need a proper role. 

The main problem is his support skills are not so great. He is at volt lvl. But volt support skill are for more superior. And at this point not even "jack of all trade" label can be used to describe Oberon.

 

All in all. It be a miracle if DE even bother to do another rework. 

I would argue that Oberon's healing is actually very good. Strictly speaking, a range buff to affinity range (50m) would make it excellent. 

The problem is that you need a LOT of power strength to deal damage. There are a few things with Obby's kit that could work better/smoother. 

[DaftMeat]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's a large part of what these forums are for.

My only critique would be that this belongs in the Home - Feedback - Feedback Categories - Warframes & Abilities subforum.

[FelixGrief]

4 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's a large part of what these forums are for.

My only critique would be that this belongs in the Home - Feedback - Feedback Categories - Warframes & Abilities subforum.

I considered putting this in feedback, but I wanted to gauge community response to the proposed changes before I appealed to DE. 

If changes were requested en masse, I would implement them in my post before posting to feedback. 

[Wrum]

52 minutes ago, FelixGrief said:

He doesn't though. That's why I'm suggesting the changes. 

Oberon eats a LOT of energy. HG spawns in front of him when it should surround him like Frost. The damage dealt on Smite and Reckoning is minuscule unless you're running over 250% power strength. 

 

Oberon is fine but he's not good. I want Oberon to work in high levels. 

there is plenty of energy fixing in game *cough* zenuric *cough*. i have never understood the issue with HG spawn positioning. he is not a dps frame and never has been or will be.

and for those of you  who keep saying he needs a role he has one: paladin.

paladins aren't face tanks or super healers or awesome dps/cc. they are tougher then normal but not the toughest, they can heal but are not the best, they can cc but its not there primary function. a paladin uses all of these things in conjunction to be effective. 

paladins also don't have crazy powerful offensives abilities because there not fighters they're defenders.

as an example:

radiation makes enemies fight everything. sure some enemies will still fight you but many will be fighting each other which means your not taking as much damage. this means you don't need a crazy armor value like valkyr you just need a decent one which he has. it also means his healing doesn't need to be as good as trinity or inaros. and sure any one of those on its own wont cut it but together they work great.

[malekas]

1 hour ago, Hopakkiin said:

That's where you are wrong. Scaled damage, Radiation procs?

Smite isn't bad,  but it's not super good either.  It's just kind of there.  It's not a reason to pick Oberon for anything.

 

The radiation procs don't mean anything. I can take a radiation build Ignis,  spin in a circle, and apply more radiation than Oberon can. 

 

When I look at what frame to take to a mission I ask myself, "why should I take this frame"?  When I look at Oberon I just don't see any reason to. The only thing he has that's really helpful is Renewal,  and Trinity's Blessing beats that hands down. His weak CC and below average damage don't make up for being a lesser Trinity. In fact, I consider Volt and Rhino better "jack of all trades" than Oberon. At least when their damage falls off those abilities can be used as amazing CC.

[FelixGrief]

9 minutes ago, Wrum said:

there is plenty of energy fixing in game *cough* zenuric *cough*. i have never understood the issue with HG spawn positioning. he is not a dps frame and never has been or will be.

and for those of you  who keep saying he needs a role he has one: paladin.

paladins aren't face tanks or super healers or awesome dps/cc. they are tougher then normal but not the toughest, they can heal but are not the best, they can cc but its not there primary function. a paladin uses all of these things in conjunction to be effective. 

paladins also don't have crazy powerful offensives abilities because there not fighters they're defenders.

as an example:

radiation makes enemies fight everything. sure some enemies will still fight you but many will be fighting each other which means your not taking as much damage. this means you don't need a crazy armor value like valkyr you just need a decent one which he has. it also means his healing doesn't need to be as good as trinity or inaros. and sure any one of those on its own wont cut it but together they work great.

Even with Zenuirik, Oberon eats at least 75 energy if he wants to give allies armor and heals. In addition, you can't regen energy while Renewal is up. 

Currently, Hallowed Ground spawns in front of Oberon. It should spawn AROUND him, similar to Frost's bubble. In addition, HG is shaped like a cone when it should be shaped like a circle.

Paladins like Oberon should be able to deal decent damage, tank some damage, and heal when necessary. Oberon's current heal is good - regenerating shields would be nice, but it's not crucial. His range, however, should be bigger. 

Radiation is a good status effect on Oberon, his skills should just have an increased chance of proc'ing it. 

[Wrum]

1 minute ago, FelixGrief said:

Even with Zenuirik, Oberon eats at least 75 energy if he wants to give allies armor and heals. In addition, you can't regen energy while Renewal is up. 

Currently, Hallowed Ground spawns in front of Oberon. It should spawn AROUND him, similar to Frost's bubble. In addition, HG is shaped like a cone when it should be shaped like a circle.

Paladins like Oberon should be able to deal decent damage, tank some damage, and heal when necessary. Oberon's current heal is good - regenerating shields would be nice, but it's not crucial. His range, however, should be bigger. 

Radiation is a good status effect on Oberon, his skills should just have an increased chance of proc'ing it. 

fair points but i'm still not clear on the issue with HG shape or spawn position. why does it matter if it spawns directly in front of you or around you?

 

[Hopakkiin]

1 minute ago, malekas said:

Smite isn't bad,  but it's not super good either.  It's just kind of there.  It's not a reason to pick Oberon for anything.

 

The radiation procs don't mean anything. I can take a radiation build Ignis,  spin in a circle, and apply more radiation than Oberon can. 

 

When I look at what frame to take to a mission I ask myself, "why should I take this frame"?  When I look at Oberon I just don't see any reason to. The only thing he has that's really helpful is Renewal,  and Trinity's Blessing beats that hands down. His weak CC and below average damage don't make up for being a lesser Trinity. In fact, I consider Volt and Rhino better "jack of all trades" than Oberon. At least when their damage falls off those abilities can be used as amazing CC.

Am I using all my frames equally? Nope. Am I using all my weapons equally? Nope. There is a thing called preference and choice. If you are trying to point out, that Oberon sucks because ..., then you should go away. It is like complaining to a person that their music taste is bad, while constantly whining about it. Also. You can't freeze bread.

[IceColdHawk]

3 hours ago, Zeclem said:

oh its that "oh youre toxic im ignoring your argument lalala" excuse. make sound arguments and i wont be toxic. or you can be like icecoldhawk and stay salty about it i dont really care.

Fine, i'll bite once more but only because this is a public forum and because i'm a bit bored.

First off i want to get the simple fact out that making "sound arguments" is exhausting when discussing with you. I've explained to you several times and showed you even a proof video regarding that synoid simulor and all you had to say was:

On 22.4.2017 at 10:03 PM, Zeclem said:

yeah thats totally why my own simulor just did the same exact same enemy in simulacrum and did more than enough to be "viable" without any forma in it. but since youre pretty stuck in your own opinion i just wont bother. hell you dont even get why its very much viable. its status procs fyi, which scales better than damage. weapon was worthless in endurance runs before, now its very much useful. but no matter, keep using crap builds on the weapon and complain how it got useless in high level now. its not my problem.

...without any proofs whatsoever. Just a simple "No i don't listen to you! I'm right! You are wrong!". You said i don't even get why it's very much viable. Maybe it's because i'm not biased and actually TEST my stuff? Hell, you still have the same very few kills and xp on synoid simulor than 3 weeks ago. No wonder you don't know what you're talking about.

5 hours ago, Zeclem said:

i'd also really like to see those hypocricies ive said. if you actually know what the words you use mean.

Let me be generous and explain it to you:

7 hours ago, Zeclem said:

you have absolutely 0 idea what youre talking about yet you still claim you do. go learn how to play first.

You are telling that what they spout makes no sense. Being condescending to no end. But the thing is, you aren't better. You are exactly what you have described the OP in the upper quote. I don't have to mention the simulor thing again i guess, so i'm gonna skip that. What is strong cc for you? Something that any weapon can do with 2 elements? Making enemies sometimes attack other enemies instead of you? (which is unreliable). Reckoning, which only has 21.75m range with stretch and 1 second casting animation. What about that sniper, corpus tech or napalm, shooting at you from 25m away? Strong CC? Okay then. Sorry, for doubting you. I'd have called things like stomp, larva, divine spears, stasis, freeze, sleep, blind or even charm "strong cc" but that's just me. I probably have to learn the game first.

Also regarding all these countless ad hominems and insults (hmm, who is "salty" again?), i suggest to take a look at:

https://forums.warframe.com/guidelines/

It helps, no kidding.

Last but not least, i want to agree with a statement of you about me:

5 hours ago, Zeclem said:

keep using crit builds on a status weapon pal.

Thanks. I love my crit-riven boosted slash-crit procing miter and my crit-gas procing akstilettos. So don't worry about me mate :)

Now with that out of the way, if you want to have an actual and meaningful discussion, then by all means go for it. Just please don't lie and then act like you're all smart and then insulting others instead of being constructive.

K, fine. Next one:

3 hours ago, malekas said:

Try running a sortie without Renewal. Does he still feel balanced? 

I don't want to disagree with your overall stance regarding oberon, in fact, i understand you. But i have to say that this argument is pretty weak and nonsensical. The above posters have covered it already and explained why so i won't repeat it. But i gotta say, renewal is not making you a tank. It makes you take a hit or two and then recover when dodged,which is nice but it definitely doesn't make you tanky. Not even talking about simulacrum levels. Void Mot is already tearing through him.

Edited May 9, 2017 by IceColdHawk
deluded made no sense. biased it is. rip my ingles.

[Voltage]

6 hours ago, Zeclem said:

you wont be giving immunity to anyone with an ev build as trin. oberon gives far better buffs than an ev trin right now, has much better cc and utility too. and your numbers are waaaaay off. and thats me being generous

you know what? F*** being generous. this kind of stupid crap needs to leave this planet. oberon has strong cc and now proper support and utility for his team and for having all those at once he is simply unmatched in multitasking as a frame. sure he still isnt great in any of them, but hes more than decent while every other multipurpose frame needs to make sacrifices in their kit. oberon doesnt. sorry not every frame is on pre-nerf limbo level.

Might as well compare a Rhino Stomp to a buffing equinox with these calls. EV is not made for healing, and a bless trinity with Arcane Aura helmet and the Ack and Brunt + synergizing with link whoops oberon back to low level missions. Oberon's forces synergy is not even practical, and is not as efficient as a trinity (even hybrid trin). Oberon is far from a bad frame (lol zephyr), but he is far from replacing a trinity.