Serration, Point Blank, Pressure Point, and Hornet Strike

[This_Machine]

My idea to make them go away.

Each weapon should have their respective damage mod built into them. They should also use resources "instead of endo" to rank up, and then reset with each forma. Simple.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, MrM1 said:

Have you ever met Lvl 100-120 enemies? Then you'll know that without the simple damage mods, your weapons deal almost no damage to them.

We need them, no matter what.

Looks like you didn't read the OP. óÒ

OP said instead of a weapon dealing 100 damage without the mod, with Serration it dealing 265 damage, we get the weapon with a base-damage of 265.

[Mover-NeRo]

What he meant is that the mod would be part of the weapon.

This would only serve as extra slot for weapon. 

Imo the mods are not the evil here. It represent your progress. Veterans have it all maxed long time ago but for new players its goal to work towards.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Mover-NeRo

[--RV--D4VE-]

8 minutes ago, This_Machine said:

My idea to make them go away.

Each weapon should have their respective damage mod built into them. They should also use resources "instead of endo" to rank up, and then reset with each forma. Simple.

Not rly your idea, the dev's were already mentioning building serration and such mods into weapons and they would "scale up" when you level your gun.

[--Q--XFA]

5 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

Have you ever met Lvl 100-120 enemies? Then you'll know that without the simple damage mods, your weapons deal almost no damage to them.

We need them, no matter what.

I think you didn't understood the OP. I believe he meant that those damage mods should be innate in all weapons instead wasting space in modding.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Yeah I agree with this, in recent disscuions in devstreams they didn't want to get rid of mods for damage 3.0. I feel like your idea  would be better.

[Xekrin]

23 minutes ago, This_Machine said:

My idea to make them go away.

The good news is your idea is in perfect sync with thousands of other Tenno who suggested the same thing over the past year or more.

The bad news is @[DE]Steve has already expressed a desire to explicitly NOT do that in the foreseeable future.

---

Who knows though, he could just be saying that so as to not get our hopes up and already has a grand plan in motion he hasn't mentioned yet.

[Sziklamester]

Partly good partly bad idea. The good part is the in built damage mods the scaling and give some extra slots to the weapons but this is further more bad because you get rid the progression of levelling these mods (honret strike - serration mostly) and you free up a slot which can be used for additional damage like mod which make the weapon too powerful then who cry about powercreep now given much more.

In order then they will remove slots because for solving the powercreep and they also should remove the elemental mods because those giving damage. With this power they should remove the whole mod system and readd the skill tree system and passive weapon buffing system which was in the closed beta so you veterans know what I meant.

My suggestion is better or remove the mod system or altering it into something better or add more slots for warframes-weapons but then rework the mod slots to fit their repsective mods like utility, energy, damage. Let's say 12 slot for the weapons but then you can separate into 3 part and add 4 damage 4 utility 4 energy (can be something) type of mod slots which mods only fit into those slots. This will balance the slots and items what you are using and with the forma you can only change the polarity as before but the mod slots still the same so you can put only those said mods. Also they can a little bit tune down the damage mods but in return they could boost the utility like mods for example the warm coat could be altered into a shield gating mod when you playing on cold planets the resistance mods still can be add as extra or built in the armor which can be level up like in any rpg.

The vitality redirection can be tune down the vigor boosted and this is a good option to add (introduce) more vitality like mods. As for Utility the reload, magazine, scope, fire rate etc mods can be added which is now can be put into the item without doubt. Remember the damage mods tuned down a bit so the items can be balaced and boost better and those 12 slot won't be so op and you can use the obsolete or unused mods aswell. 

[motorfirebox]

My idea has always been to introduce a bunch of alternate conditional damage mods. You can use the base mod, which works all the time; or you can use a conditional mod, which is less effective by default but much, much better under certain conditions. So maybe a Headshot Serration that maxes out at 135% instead of 165%, but is 275% on headshots (base, before any other modifiers). Or maybe an Aimglide Serration, 120% normally but 190% during aimglide. Or time ones, like a Stealth Pressure Point that is 80% normally, but goes up to 165% for 15 seconds after a stealth kill.

[--RV--D4VE-]

7 minutes ago, Sziklamester said:

Partly good partly bad idea. The good part is the in built damage mods the scaling and give some extra slots to the weapons but this is further more bad because you get rid the progression of levelling these mods (honret strike - serration mostly) and you free up a slot which can be used for additional damage like mod which make the weapon too powerful then who cry about powercreep now given much more.

IF they would do it, this would not be a thing since they will most likely remove 2 mod slots just like it was with warframe slots.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

As long as they refund my endo this would be great.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

1 hour ago, This_Machine said:

My idea to make them go away.

Each weapon should have their respective damage mod built into them. They should also use resources "instead of endo" to rank up, and then reset with each forma. Simple.

That was the original intention of damage 3.0 before DE decided to not go through with it.

[DE]Steve has said, live during devstreams, that they do not intend to remove any damage mods.

[This_Machine]

58 minutes ago, --RV--D4VE- said:

Not rly your idea, the dev's were already mentioning building serration and such mods into weapons and they would "scale up" when you level your gun.

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

That was the original intention of damage 3.0 before DE decided to not go through with it.

[DE]Steve has said, live during devstreams, that they do not intend to remove any damage mods.

Well thanks for telling me.

[Xekrin]

37 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ultimategamerjr said:

As long as they refund my endo this would be great.

To be honest, I do not consider endo to be something so valuable as to require recompense for losing something it was invested into.  This seems to be the standard roadblock for a fair number of possible changes some people keep suggesting.  The response to which nearly always has been "We'd lose all that endo we invested, so don't do that No!"

Yeah, me you and that other guy farmed all that endo and it sure would be terrible if we got Grand Mod X today, max it out and tomorrow Grand Mod X is completely changed and no longer even needs endo, or simply doesn't exist anymore.

However, losing a mod we maxed out ages ago and used with great effect and got a good deal of use out of while it existed would not be terrible.  Especially if the thing replacing it made the game better overall, or at the very least new and refreshingly different.

It is just like the kuva thing.  Before they changed the kuva to a cap of 3500 people were cramming hundreds of thousands of kuva into their rivens to reroll them over and over.  Those people effectively wasted a ton of kuva simply because they didn't stop to consider there would eventually be a change making a maximum amount needed to roll a riven.  They probably demanded to get kuva refunded afterward.

There's another example I could reference but its likely still too fresh a wound to pick at right now.

Besides, nearly everything in this game eventually circles around to getting endo.  I have over 500k endo, at least three dozen endo statues, and hundreds of thousands of mods that I could dissolve into endo

TL:DR Naaaaah.

 

[chaotea]

2 hours ago, This_Machine said:

My idea to make them go away.

Each weapon should have their respective damage mod built into them. They should also use resources "instead of endo" to rank up, and then reset with each forma. Simple.

The problem is that current low level enemies are balanced for weapons with no or low rank damage mods attached, so just adding it to the weapon is problematic, and would require a complete overhaul of enemy health, as well as its interaction with other damage mods such as split chamber or elemental mods.

Im not against the idea, but i just want to be clear that its never going to be a 'simple' solution. Though i think it would be better to use the weapons ranks or unbuffed mod capacity to determine the weapon damage growth, rather than add a new resource to the game

[chaotea]

24 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

However, losing a mod we maxed out ages ago and used with great effect and got a good deal of use out of while it existed would not be terrible.  Especially if the thing replacing it made the game better overall, or at the very least new and refreshingly different.

Agreed here, though DE is generally good at compensating.

Still, my issue would be that in the case of the OP's suggestion, we would need to farm a all new resource before we could continue to play high level content. In addition as you would need to do this with every weapon, several times if you forma them, it could take a very long time for someone like me who has kept all the weapons.

[This_Machine]

59 minutes ago, chaotea said:

The problem is that current low level enemies are balanced for weapons with no or low rank damage mods attached, so just adding it to the weapon is problematic, and would require a complete overhaul of enemy health, as well as its interaction with other damage mods such as split chamber or elemental mods.

Im not against the idea, but i just want to be clear that its never going to be a 'simple' solution. Though i think it would be better to use the weapons ranks or unbuffed mod capacity to determine the weapon damage growth, rather than add a new resource to the game

No rework needs to be done. Nothing would change except instead of a mod its the weapon that you rank up. There doesn't need to be new resources either when planets already have a set table. Unless you had other plans for hoarding a million ferrite or alloy plate? All that needs to be figured out is how much resources would be needed for each rank. See simple.

 Im also not a fan of scaling damage with the level idea either. It's to easy to fully level something in just a few missions, and there's no progression in that.

[W01fe]

Right now melee scales due to multiplier.  What if the multiplier applied to all your weapons!

but that might make melee redundant again i dunno.

[DrBorris]

This is called treating the symptoms rather than the cause. 

 

 

[(PSN)DBR87]

I also remember one Dev Stream they said Rivens where the answer for Damage 3.0 so... Of course that same stream they said they would look further into it. But from what DE Steve was saying, it looks like Serration, Split Chamber and etc are here to stay.

[chaotea]

16 hours ago, This_Machine said:

No rework needs to be done. Nothing would change except instead of a mod its the weapon that you rank up.

This statement shows a lack of basic understanding of how the systems in the game work. Everything effects everything else. Changing the damage numbers would alter the mechanics of the game significantly. New players would find themselves with weapons that 1 hit everything.

16 hours ago, This_Machine said:

There doesn't need to be new resources either when planets already have a set table. Unless you had other plans for hoarding a million ferrite or alloy plate?

The issue with this is that players who've played a while will have large stockpiles, while new players will have less to go around (seeing as they will need these resources for both upgrading weapons and all the usual things they need it for). In addition you'd have to do this for every weapon, so either the cost is low enough that it becomes almost pointless, or the cost is reasonable enough to matter, but you have to multiply that by the number of weapons (plus multiply by how many times you forma each one.)

Also, this brings it close to the 'glimmer' system seen in Destiny. One of the worst things about Destiny (a game i quite liked really) was that it cost alot to invest in a weapon, but that you'd get a new weapon and then have to do it all over again.

16 hours ago, This_Machine said:

Unless you had other plans for hoarding a million ferrite or alloy plate? All that needs to be figured out is how much resources would be needed for each rank. See simple.

Quoted again for a different point.

Remember how the Hema research was balanced? That was 'simple'. They took the average amount of mutagen samples everyone had in reserve, and used that to calculate how much the research would cost. Also, im mastery rank 23 and have been playing since first day of open beta. I dont have that much ferrite or alloy plate. Sure, ive got a good bit stockpiled, but i doubt it would be enough to upgrade every weapon in the game (which i own). The system of using resources is a bad idea.

Forget balancing and everything, if that was all fine, i would say to tie it to weapon level. Leveling your weapon improves its stats, like how warframes improve. But this resourse thing isnt going to pan out. Which leads me to:

16 hours ago, This_Machine said:

 Im also not a fan of scaling damage with the level idea either. It's to easy to fully level something in just a few missions, and there's no progression in that.

Again, your being very self centered with this. When proposing a new system like this, you've got to think of yourself as a new player with a fresh account. Sure, it would take only a few missions to level up a weapon in high level content, but at high level enemies are giving out so much xp its easy. You should take a rank 0 weapon, un-modded with an un-modded rank 0 warframe to the first level and see how long it takes you to rank them up. I think you'll find your 'progression'.

[Kainosh]

22 hours ago, Mover-NeRo said:

What he meant is that the mod would be part of the weapon.

This would only serve as extra slot for weapon. 

Imo the mods are not the evil here. It represent your progress. Veterans have it all maxed long time ago but for new players its goal to work towards.

Its true...But later on these mods become so mandatory...

MOD is a "modifier". Not an "upgrade".   Mods should adjust weapon stats towards specific goal...Not just buff it outright. 

In my opinion, Base weapon stats should grow with weapon being upgraded through [insert any solid uprgade method there], while mods should just convert   base weapon stats into something new.

For example if your weapon have 100 base damage, and you add 50% toxin mod,  Weapon will deal 50 toxin and 50 base damage.   Firerate mods already do that (by increasing overall recoil and ammo consumption).

But that is a serious rework so it will prolly never happen.

[Mover-NeRo]

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

Its true...But later on these mods become so mandatory...

MOD is a "modifier". Not an "upgrade".   Mods should adjust weapon stats towards specific goal...Not just buff it outright. 

In my opinion, Base weapon stats should grow with weapon being upgraded through [insert any solid uprgade method there], while mods should just convert   base weapon stats into something new.

For example if your weapon have 100 base damage, and you add 50% toxin mod,  Weapon will deal 50 toxin and 50 base damage.   Firerate mods already do that (by increasing overall recoil and ammo consumption).

But that is a serious rework so it will prolly never happen.

This way a unmoded weapon would be same overall strength as fully moded weapon. And if you only change aspects like diferent DMG type, reload speed for magazine size or fire rate for dmg..you basicly just get diferent weapon on same power lvl.

While I understand that the mods are mandatory you start with weak mods and by ranking them up which takes a lot of resources you actually increasing the dmg for all weapons of this weapon type. Which serves as satisfaction for your effort.

[This_Machine]

14 hours ago, chaotea said:

 

Your blowing things way out of proportion. I don't know where your getting all this from because I didn't mention any of it. All this was meant to be, was an idea to free one mod sot up on weapons.

On 5/2/2017 at 7:39 AM, Mover-NeRo said:

What he meant is that the mod would be part of the weapon.

This would only serve as extra slot for weapon. 

Imo the mods are not the evil here. It represent your progress. Veterans have it all maxed long time ago but for new players its goal to work towards.

You would still have to rank up the damage for the weapon like it was just another mod. So that would still be a thing. What I'm seeing though is the same copy past builds for all my weapons. If these damage mods are "mandatory" then they shouldn't be taking up a mod slot. Having one extra slot may not sound like a big thing, but it would add more variety where it doesn't exist.

[Mover-NeRo]

7 hours ago, This_Machine said:

Your blowing things way out of proportion. I don't know where your getting all this from because I didn't mention any of it. All this was meant to be, was an idea to free one mod sot up on weapons.

You would still have to rank up the damage for the weapon like it was just another mod. So that would still be a thing. What I'm seeing though is the same copy past builds for all my weapons. If these damage mods are "mandatory" then they shouldn't be taking up a mod slot. Having one extra slot may not sound like a big thing, but it would add more variety where it doesn't exist.

Not really.. 90% of ppl would just slam another element or status mod in. Nothing would change. I don't think ppl would actually start using mods for magazine size or ammo drum :X.

Not just that but you would need to upgrade this hidden mod on each weapon separately.